On the August 16 forum with Obama and McCain:

Rick Warren

I think it fulfilled the goal that I wanted and the goal was to prove that you could have another model of civil discourse besides the antagonistic debate format. This had never been done before, where you put the two guys on the same stage but have an hour discussion each with the exact identical questions. That’s what allowed them to do apples to apples, you know, comparison, and the amazing thing about it is they both presented their full differences without ever attacking the other person. And I think that was one of the things I wanted to prove, was that we can have returned civility to the civil discourse. We don’t have to be rude. We can disagree without demonizing, caricaturing each other. Both of these men are good men. They love America. They want it to be a good country. They just have vastly different visions on how it will be-how it should be done.

They’re both friends of mine and I know their personality. I know their background. I know-I wasn’t surprised by their stance. In fact, I know-I intentionally limited my follow-up questions so we could-we went broad rather than deep on a couple of issues. And, of course, as a journalist you know this. There are so many times I want to say, “Well, what about …but what about?” And I wanted to go back into the follow-up questions. And I could have with both those guys. I could’ve gone half an hour on each of the questions. But I wanted to give an overview of each of these four big areas: The stewardship of the presidency. What are the responsibilities of the presidency domestically? Personal leadership issues. Of course, the worldview issues of faith and worldview, and then international issues, which are the ones I care about-poverty, disease, illiteracy. There were a number of questions I didn’t get to ask.

On abortion and evangelicals:

I still think for most evangelicals it’s the number one issue, because it’s a life issue. If you literally believe, literally what Psalm 139 says, that “I formed you in your mother’s womb,” I planned your days before you were born, then you believe abortion short-circuits the will of God, that God planned each baby. I talk about this in chapter one of THE PURPOSE-DRIVEN LIFE, that nobody’s an accident. There are accidental parents but no accidental kids; illegitimate parents but no illegitimate kids. Your parents may not have planned you, but God did. And so I don’t believe in accidental births. I believe that God knew what he was doing even in the sin of other people, even that God can bring good out of a rape. I believe that. But if you have a hierarchy, it depends on your worldview. What’s going to be at the top? There’s no doubt about it that if you don’t have that as a value then that’s not going to be at the top and it may be one of a number of different issues. The interesting thing is that every poll shows that the young evangelicals are actually more pro-life than their parents. They’re anti-religious right, but they’re more pro-life, which means they’re saying, “I don’t like the tenor of the argument, and I don’t like some of the other things that they’re saying.” But it doesn’t mean that they’re dropping their commitment to unborn babies.

On evangelical voters:

I’m not a prophet, I’m a pastor, so I can’t predict the future and I can’t predict how people are going to vote. It will be interesting to see how many of them choose to say, “Well, I choose these other issues above the issue of life.” On that particular thing, well, we’ll just have to find out. What I’m hearing is not lock-step in Republicanism. That’s what I’m hearing. I’m not hearing people saying, “Well, I’m going to move away from life,” but I am hearing people saying, “I’m moving away from just pulling a lever in Republicanism.” And, of course, in the last two years, many of the Democrats who got elected were actually pro-life Democrats, and so that’s an interesting combination that we’ll see what happens.

On Democrats, Republicans, and the language of faith:

It’s really interesting because after the 2004 election, a lot of Democratic pundits said they lost-Democrats lost that election because they didn’t speak the language of faith. Well, actually, that’s kind of patronizing, because just because you know the lingo doesn’t mean you have the worldview. And just because somebody can say “Jesus” or “God” or “salvation” doesn’t mean you have the worldview. So what happened, I think, is that everybody went overboard. It was interesting because all of a sudden in the primary season, all the Democrats were talking about God, Jesus, and faith, and all the Republicans were quiet, and they weren’t really wanting to talk about it. They were kind of trying to move away from it, and we’ve actually had more talk about it, obviously, this year than even four years ago. So it’s going to be-it’s just a fascinating season.

I really do think it’s going to come down to not the window dressing of the wording, the faith, the prayers, things like this. It’s going to come down to worldview, and it’s going to come down to individuals saying, “Do I value these particular issues above these particular issues?” I don’t think it’s going to have that big of an effect. I really don’t.

On faith and worldviews:

We must always keep in mind that America’s built on two twin pillars-majority rule and minority rights, and we must believe deeply in both. We believe in majority rule. The minority doesn’t get to make all the rules, and that means the majority wins. That means sometimes I lose. I lost on abortion. Okay. Abortion is the law in our land right now. I don’t agree with it, but my minority wasn’t strong enough to overturn that. On the other hand, we don’t just believe in ignoring minority rights, and so I think it’s very important that the candidates not only express their faith and express their worldview, if they have a worldview or have a faith, everybody’s got a worldview, but it’s also they have to make people feel comfortable to understand, “I am the president of everybody.” That’s extremely important. When I go to the doctor, I don’t ask a surgeon, “Are you an evangelical?” I say, “Are you a good doctor?” And the same is true with the president. It’s trite to say it but he’s not the pastor of the United States; he’s the president. And so I think it’s important for Christians, evangelicals, and people of faith to stand up and say, “Yes, we don’t have any problem with faith being at the table. What we have a problem with is a theocracy. I don’t believe in theocracy. I don’t believe in state church. I believe the reason Christianity has flourished in America is because it’s a free-market society and may the best idea win. I think everybody-I think a Muslim ought to have the right to try to persuade me to accept that faith as much as a Hindu or a Jew or anybody else, and likewise. I believe in persuasion. I do not believe in coercion.

On church-going voters:

Well, it is an interest group. Sorry to say that, but it is an interest group, and it happens to be probably the largest interest group. Unions are an interest group. Teachers are an interest group. Gays are an interest group. So should only other interest groups be allowed to have the candidates come to their venues? Now the candidates will go to gay venues, they’ll go to union venues, they’ll meet with teacher’s unions. They’ll do all different kinds of things. So a large portion of America goes to church. I mean, you know, this weekend about 140 million people will be in a church. Now more people will go in a church in one weekend than attend all professional sporting events in a year. I’m not talking about television. I’m talking about going to a tennis match, a ball game, baseball, football. So we have a sports page in the paper every day of the week, and only a tiny fraction of America pays attention to sports. There are far more people who are paying attention to what is going on in their church than pay attention to sports. So, as they’ve said before, we don’t believe in the naked public square. We believe in everybody being there at the table, and so I think it’s entirely appropriate as long as you don’t create a religious test.

On pro-life issues:

I’m certainly pro-life. There’s no doubt about that. But I’m also pro-whole-life, as they say, and I want to see commitments to-it’s why I challenged both of the candidates at the forum the other night about a challenge to do for orphans what President Bush had done for PEPFAR [President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief]. There are 30 million people in the world with AIDS right now who need ARVs [antiretroviral treatments] and things like that. But there are 143 million orphans in the world who are growing up without parents.

On issues at stake in the 2008 election:

We’ve got a number of things at stake. We cannot forget that we really still are at war. There are people in this world who want to destroy America. They’re not a significant part of the world, but they are a dedicated and radical part of the world, and they are bent on the destruction of America. So the war on terrorism is a hard war, because terrorism is actually a tool. You can’t have a war on a tool. In the past we had a war on an enemy, and we knew who the enemy was. You might be able to have a war on terrorists, but terrorism is actually a tool, and how do you defeat a tool? But that’s going to be a constant issue. I mentioned this the other night in the forum-there’s this collision between personal rights and the need for security, and that is not an easy answer. Now which takes precedence in the freedom that we’ve enjoyed for so long? I mean, every time I go through an airport I think, one guy changed my life. You know, I have to take off my shoes and my belt because of one guy, and that’s the power of terrorism. So the security issue is a big deal. The rebuilding of our inner cities is a big deal. Infrastructure is a big deal. I mean, I could go on and on and start sounding like a politician. So I would say that I’m more pleased about the two candidates this year than we’ve had in a number of years. I think they’re both genuinely competent people, and I would not agree, if either of them got elected, would not agree with everything they did. But they are both competent.

The post Pastor Rick Warren appeared first on Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly.

And while Republicans are most often seen as the party friendly toward religion, the Democrats have made some gains. Nearly four-in-10 Americans now say the Democrats are friendly toward religion, up from just 26 percent two years ago.

Meanwhile, religious groups continue trying to have an influence. A large rally of evangelical Christians was held on the National Mall in Washington last week. Organizers say more than 50,000 people gathered to pray for the nation and highlight moral issues they consider critical in the election. Among other things, there were calls for bans on abortions and same sex marriage.

At the conventions, and in coming weeks, both political parties have a lot at stake as they try to mobilize religious voters. Kim Lawton has our report.

KIM LAWTON: Every weekend, more than 20,000 people come to services at the evangelical Saddleback Church in southern California. Last Sunday (August 17), pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren urged his massive flock to carefully consider who to vote for in November.

Rick Warren

Reverend RICK WARREN (Pastor, Saddleback Church, during sermon): What we need in America more than visionaries, more than smart leaders, is we need leaders with character.

LAWTON: On the previous evening, both Barack Obama and John McCain were at Saddleback making their case to be the next president. As part of the discussion, Warren asked them to describe what their Christian faith means to them.

Senator BARACK OBAMA (Democratic Presidential Candidate at Saddleback Forum): It means I believe in – that Jesus Christ died for my sins and that I am redeemed through him. That is a source of strength and sustenance on a daily basis.

Senator JOHN MCCAIN (Republican Presidential Candidate, at Saddleback Forum): Means I’m saved and forgiven. And we’re talking about the world. Our faith encompasses not just the United States of America, but the world.

LAWTON: Georgetown University professor of government Clyde Wilcox says faith can tell voters a lot about a potential president.

Clyde Wilcox

Professor CLYDE WILCOX (Government Department, Georgetown University): How will we know how anyone will behave in a crisis? Well, we can look at past behavior, but we can also think, what is it that are their bedrock values, that they don’t want to change? And for most Americans those values would be religious.

LAWTON: As Democrats and Republicans head to their national conventions, both camps are actively competing for religious voters. The candidates are talking about their personal faith, and the campaigns are developing wide-ranging strategies for faith-based outreach.

It’s somewhat unfamiliar territory for the Democrats who’ve been criticized in recent presidential elections for appearing not friendly toward religion. This time around, Democrats promise things will be different.

The chief executive officer of the Democratic National Convention in Denver is Leah Daughtry, a fifth-generation Pentecostal pastor. As part of the convention, Daughtry has planned an interfaith prayer gathering and other faith-related events.

Leah Daughtry

Reverend LEAH DAUGHTRY (CEO, Democratic National Convention): All of us have values. We all come to our lives with a certain set of values. For many of us, those values spring from a place of faith. So what we want people to walk away with is understanding that this is just another part of the Democratic Party.

LAWTON: She acknowledges that hasn’t always been the Democratic image in recent years.

Rev. DAUGHTRY: It was a puzzling phenomenon to me to see the party that I’ve always been a member of labeled as a party that doesn’t have people of faith or isn’t open to people of faith. So I think for me it was really more about us as a party saying, “No, wait a minute. We are people of faith. There are millions of us.” We became more vocal. We decided to stand up. We decided to stand up for what we believe and to say, “This is who I am. I’m inside the party. I’m a person of faith.”

LAWTON: One key part of the new Democratic strategy has been reaching out to evangelicals, a longtime constituency of the GOP. Obama has been appealing to those voters using God-talk and biblical references.

Sen. OBAMA (at Saddleback Forum): We still don’t abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.

Joshua Dubois

JOSHUA DUBOIS (Director, Religious Affairs, Obama Campaign): We’re very humble in our approach to the outreach. We’re certainly not hoping to win outright the evangelical vote, but we are certainly going to make a serious effort to introduce Senator Obama and his values to the nation, and I think a lot of folks are going to respond to that.

LAWTON: Growing numbers of evangelicals want to expand their agenda beyond abortion to also include issues like poverty, AIDS, and the environment.

Rev. WARREN: What I’m hearing is, you know, not lock-step in Republicanism. That’s what I’m hearing. I’m not hearing people saying, “Well, I’m going to move away from life.” But I am hearing people saying, “I’m moving away from just pulling a lever.”

LAWTON: Evangelicals are the single largest bloc of religious voters. In 2004, 40 percent of George Bush’s total vote came from social conservatives. New polls show the majority of those voters are supporting John McCain, but not with the same level of enthusiasm they gave George Bush. And there are still significant numbers of undecided evangelical voters. If the Obama campaign can siphon off some of those evangelicals, it could make a big difference, especially in a close election.

John McCain has had a rocky relationship with evangelicals, including some highly publicized rifts with religious right leaders going back to the 2000 elections. Many conservative evangelicals have been frustrated that McCain has not spoken more about his faith or emphasized their key social issues, such as abortion and gay marriage.

Political observers say McCain can’t automatically rely on the faith outreach strategy that worked so well for George W. Bush.

Prof. WILCOX: By the issues, social conservatives should still support him. But a generation of Christian right leaders has been increasingly ineffective and older. And I think the McCain campaign is not really geared up for that yet, so I think they’ll have a little bit more problem.

LAWTON: At a news conference last week, social conservatives urged the McCain campaign to do more to mobilize their movement.

TONY PERKINS (President, Family Research Council, speaking at news conference): It’s not an issue of whether most evangelicals are going to vote for John McCain. It’s an issue of intensity. It’s an issue of excitement. It’s an issue of passion.

Sen. MCCAIN (at Saddleback Forum): I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies.

LAWTON: Many evangelicals hope McCain will expand his Saddleback forum comments at the Republican convention and beyond.

Mike Huckabee

Governor MIKE HUCKABEE (Former Republican Presidential Candidate): I think the Republicans are going to see increasing numbers of people rally around John McCain. They’re comfortable with his own depth of personal character, his faith, his honor, and they know that his positions really do reflect more of what they believe to be important.

LAWTON: While evangelical voters have been getting most of the attention, Roman Catholics will also be crucial in this election. In 2004, a slight majority of Catholics voted for Bush, but then in the mid-term elections in 2006 a slight majority swung back to the Democratic side. Both candidates are still refining their Catholic outreach strategies.

Prof. WILCOX: Older Catholics if they are more religious tend to vote more Democratic. Younger Catholics if they are more religious tend to vote more Republican. And so this has been, this will be a really key constituency.

LAWTON: Another challenge will be reaching out to communities of faith while not alienating other voters. This is an especially complex question for the Democrats.

Prof. WILCOX: They do have a secular part of their voting bloc, maybe 20 percent of Americans are seculars, another 10 percent are religious but don’t like to hear religion and politics mixing. Some are Jews who don’t want to hear Christian politics mentioned so much.

LAWTON: Daughtry says this hasn’t been an issue for them so far.

Rev. DAUGHTRY: We really haven’t had, you know, blowback from people who are afraid we going to make this the church of the Democratic Party. It’s all a value system. We’re not basing our values as Democrats on a holy text. We’re basing it on a value system of how we love and treat and care for each other in community.

LAWTON: As the campaign outreach strategies move forward, some observers worry about the potential impact on religious communities.

Prof. WILCOX: The mission of a church is not really to elect a candidate. The mission of a church or a synagogue or a mosque or whatever is to, you know, reach out to their congregants and provide them with guidance and advice, and oftentimes politics can interfere with that.

LAWTON: Rick Warren doesn’t endorse candidates, but I asked him if he was worried about religious voters becoming another special interest group.

Rev. WARREN: Well, it is an interest group. Sorry to say that, but it is an interest group. And it happens to be probably the largest interest group. I mean, unions are an interest group. Teachers are an interest group. Gays are an interest group. So should only other interest groups be allowed to have the candidates come to their venues?

LAWTON: He says people of faith should – and will – be a factor at the polls this fall.

Rev. Warren (during sermon): And I don’t understand when people say, “I don’t like any of the candidates so I’m not going to vote.” Oh come on! Then you need to move to another country, really, and you need to see what it’s like to not have real freedoms and not to be able to have a voice.

LAWTON: Both campaigns plan to work overtime to capture those votes. I’m Kim Lawton reporting.

The post 2008 Campaign: Conventions Preview appeared first on Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly.

The post Barack Obama and John McCain: Saddleback Church Forum appeared first on Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly.