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TRANSCRIPT
Read This Week's November 7, 2008
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TRANSCRIPT:
Episode no. 239
May 28, 1999

MAUREEN BUNYAN, guest anchor: Coming up, as the scope of U.S. military involvement in the Balkans is under review this Memorial Day weekend, a visit with the man they call Chaps,

Lieutenant Malak Ibn Noel, the Navy's first Muslim chaplain.

Also, the cowboy rabbi with a controversial past. Home on the range in the wilderness of New Mexico, far from his roots in New York's Orthodox Jewish community.

And our critic Martha Bayles on "The Phantom Menace," the newest "Star Wars" film.

MARTHA BAYLES: With all due respect to Yoda, the dark side in "The Phantom Menace" has less to do with fear and anger than with unfair trade practices.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BUNYAN: Welcome to RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY. Bob Abernethy is away; I'm Maureen Bunyan.

This week, the thorny issue of religion and politics surfaced again from a surprising quarter, not the religious right, but Vice President Al Gore. He suggested faith-based organizations have a larger role in solving social problems, a role financed by the federal government. As Paul Miller reports, that suggestion has generated new controversy, especially among some longtime

religious supporters of the Democratic Party.

PAUL MILLER: The vice president told the Atlanta Salvation Army he favored giving

faith-based organizations the right to bid for more federal grants for social programs. He said government could help underwrite the work of faith-based organizations in a new partnership.

Vice President AL GORE: The moment has come for Washington to catch up with the rest of America. The moment has come to use the people's government to better help them help their neighbors.

MILLER: Gore's model is called Charitable Choice, which conservative Republicans tacked onto the 1996 welfare reform. It allows religious organizations to get government contracts with job training and other welfare-related programs. Gore wants to expand Charitable Choice to fight homelessness and drug addiction. Part of the traditional Democratic constituency says government funding of religious groups already violates the constitutional separation of the two institutions.

Mr. MARK PELAVIN (Religious Action Center for Reform Judaism): I think the vice president's speech was troubling and puzzling.

MILLER: Mark Pelavin says religion flourishes because of its separation from the state, not despite it.

Mr. PELAVIN: The governmentís business is to address social problems. And I think that the religious community has a role to play in doing that as well; itís a role to play in implementing what they view as their own tradition and their own teaching. But they can do that independent of the government.

MILLER: Faith-based organizationsí social programs appeal to some conservatives precisely because they are not government-run. They appeal to some liberals and moderates because they work. Support for federal funding is growing.

Mr. E.J. DIONNE (Brookings Institution): Thereís a lot of evidence that drug treatment programs that are rooted in some way in the churches or in religious faith have better success rates than other kind of drug treatment programs. Question: If the government wants to be successful in drug treatment, shouldnít it think about trying to support those programs, with safeguards, so that people arenít forced into anything they donít want to be forced into?

MILLER: Analysts say popular support for Charitable Choice also makes Goreís endorsement of it smart politics.

Goreís Democratic rival for the presidency, former Senator Bill Bradley, supports Charitable Choice. So does the Republican front-runner, George W. Bush. What began as a creation of the religious right now appears to be mainstream presidential politics. Iím Paul Miller, for RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, in Washington.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: Also this week, more controversies in biomedical ethics. The National Bioethics Advisory Commission is expected to recommend next month that federally funded research on human embryonic or stem cells be allowed to move forward. Such research has been banned because it involves the destruction of the embryos. Some people consider that the taking of a human life. In a draft report, the commission says the potential for finding cures to many diseases outweighs concerns about the source of the research cells. The panel does propose strict guidelines for the research.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: Elsewhere in the world, new religious concern about the war in Yugoslavia. This week, NATO increased its bombing of civilian infrastructure and President Slobodan Milosevic was indicted as a war criminal. Meanwhile, church leaders from Europe and North America reiterated their commitment to promoting negotiation and dialogue.

Also the Presbyterian Church USA issued a statement expressing deepening anguish about the bombing campaign.

And Pope John Paul II proclaimed June 3rd, the Catholic Feast of Corpus Christi, as a day of intense prayer for peace.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: On this Memorial Day weekend, those who died for peace and freedom in other wars will be remembered. In the military, those who now serve increasingly reflect the growing diversity in our country. Islam is one of the fastest-growing religions in the US, and now the military chaplain corps reflects this change. Muslim imams have been added. Anisa Mehdi tells us about the Navyís first Muslim chaplain and how he deals with the potential conflict between his religion and his mission.

Lieutenant MALAK IBN NOEL (Navy Chaplain): Whatís up, Doc?

ANISA MEHDI reporting:

You might not recognize him as a clergyman at first glance...

Lt. NOEL: Iím a chaplain, I work for God, itís like that.

MEHDI: ...gladhanding his way around a medical clinic at Naval Station Norfolk. They know him here as ëChaps,í the first Muslim chaplain or imam in the U.S. Navy, Lieutenant Malak Abdal Mutaíali Ibn Noel.

Lt. NOEL: ...on a fast, but thatís 30 days out of the year. The rest of the time, you just like, fatten up, boy.

MEHDI: Heís feisty and fun, completely Catholic -- small C -- in his approach to the chaplaincy. Imam Noel doesnít discriminate when it comes to Godís people.

Lt. NOEL: And if youíre gonna minister, you got to get out where the people are. When youíreówhen youíre fishing, you canít sit at home and hope you catch a fish. You got to get out there where the fish are at.

Unidentified Man #1: Heís one of the most energetic, caring chaplains that Iíve ever met. And the patients and staff both here love him a lot. They look forward to his visits.

Lt. NOEL: Thank you. I appreciate it so much. You guys are so good to me.

I am not here for logistics. I am not here as an operational guy so much as I am here for spirituality, for moral and ethical presence. And so thatís what I bring to the corps, to the mix.

MEHDI: Noel was ordained as a Navy chaplain in 1996, three years after the Army named its first Muslim chaplain. But Muslims have been in the service at least since the Civil War, and perhaps since the Revolution. It took the Gulf War in 1991 for Muslims in the military to gain official recognition.

Lt. NOEL: I think after the Persian Gulf War, and war tends to get a lot of people very spiritual, they saw what the population was. They saw that there was a genuine need, they saw there was an -- actually a sincere and devout body of Muslims practicing Islam.

MEHDI: No one in the military is required to declare a religious affiliation, but of those who have, the Navy reports that less than 1 percent are Muslims. For comparison, it also reports that less than 1 percent are Jews. Chaplain Noel says that here on the base, the numbers of Muslims are growing, just as they are in the United States as a whole.

Not only did the Gulf War result in a growing awareness of Islam, but it presented a potential dilemma for Muslims who fought against Iraq, a mostly Muslim nation.

Lt. NOEL: If you study the procedures of the format for the Gulf War, it is in accordance with the Koran. If the aggressor will not stand down, then it is the duty of the third party to join the oppressed until there is no need to fight.

Lt. NOEL: The only thing that we have actually engaged in over the past few weeks are prayers for the people who are suffering there and holding them close to our heart, that anyone, whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim, no one should be oppressed.

MEHDI: The universality of Islam appealed to Noel. He was born to Christian parents who named him Monroe Orange Noel Jr. His parents still live in southern New Jersey, where they raised four children in the Baptist Church. When Noel converted to Islam 10 years ago, he called his mother to tell her the news.

Mrs. ELIZABETH NOEL (Mother): So he said, ëIíve joined the Islam faith.í So I said, ëMonroe, if this is what God has led you to and this is your choice, I have no problem with it, because as far as Iím concerned, weíre all serving the same God. So as long as you put God first in your life, Iím satisfied with it.í

Lt. NOEL: The questions that I had raised as a Christian were eliminated when I entered Islam. So I was -- I was very happy. I believe that I am where I am by the grace of God. I believe that God has the power, certainly, to call people where he wants them to serve him as he willóas he wills. And heís called me to serve him in this capacity.

(On telephone) Iím blessed, sir. Yourself?

My chief possibility: one, is to educate Muslims. There are a lot of Muslims who are Muslims but have -- lack serious scholarship in the religion. At the same time, I do desire to educate non-Muslims as to who we are and what weíre about because people are concerned, ëHow do we fit?í

Commander DAVID GUNDERLACH (Navy Chaplain): People of faith tend to be a little bit more accommodating toward other human beings. And if you let it, the Navy will provide probably a better atmosphere than some other places in which to do that, precisely because we co-exist here.

Lt. NOEL: I would never say that there was any great deal of -- of prejudice or bias. But when it was in evidence that it was there, then people took the responsible steps to -- to begin to address it and support it. Because Iíve had tremendous support since Iíve been here.

MEHDI: Support like establishing the first mosque on a naval base in 1997, Masjid al Daí wah.And hosting a huge Eid-Ul-Fitr service at the end of Ramadan for all the Muslims in the Norfolk area in a hangar with a Hawkeye surveillance plane in the background.

Lt. NOEL: Is it a warplane in opposition to who we are, or is it a warplane supporting who we are? Is it defending our right to be who we are? This testimony to the military, to the United States government, embracing Islam, that is the word thatís going out for the Muslims in this area. I love the military. God has selected me to do what I do and he has put me in the military, ëcause if Iím working for God, I would not be here without his -- his blessing.

(To unidentified woman) OK, let me talk to you about girls.

MEHDI: Anisa Mehdi, RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, Norfolk, Virginia.

Lt. NOEL: (To baby) You understand that, right?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: In other news, the pope heads to his homeland of Poland next week for a 13-day visit. Vatican officials say the trip will summarize his papacy. The trip comes as Poland hopes for resolution in a long-standing controversy over crosses near the former Auschwitz death camp. More than 300 small crosses erected by conservative Catholics were taken down under a new law that took effect this week. A large cross commemorating John Paulís 1979 Mass will be allowed to stay. Many Jewish groups say the crosses offended the memory of the more than one million Jews who died at Auschwitz.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: Here in the U.S., the most liberal branch of Judaism is endorsing a return to traditional ritual and observances. After vigorous debate, Reform rabbis approved a new set of principles calling on Reform Jews to explore the whole array of commandments. The rabbis say this is a way to achieve a greater level of spirituality. Their vote was closed to cameras.

More than 100 years ago, the Reform movement rejected many traditions as foreign to modern society. This return to tradition, including the wearing of head coverings and prayer shawls and the use of Hebrew during services, has already taken place in many synagogues across the country.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: His name is Gershon Winkler. Heís a rabbi. But you wonít find him in the synagogue. Instead, look for Rabbi Winkler in the wilderness of New Mexico, a rabbi with a controversial past. The story behind Gershon Winklerís decision to go West is the story of how his crisis of faith led to a personal transformation.

Out for an afternoon horseback ride on his land in Cuba, New Mexico, Rabbi Gershon Winkler is a long way from the Orthodox close-knit community he left behind in Brooklyn, New York. In Brooklyn there were cars; now there are cattle. Then there were synagogues and crowded streets; now there are vistas and isolation.

(Footage of Winkler chanting)

BUNYAN: Gershon Winkler, raised in an Orthodox home, was a widely respected rabbi in the Orthodox tradition.

Rabbi GERSHON WINKLER: I was hired by two Yeshivas whose focus was to educate un-Orthodox Jewish adults, mostly who were really interested in becoming Orthodox, learning about Orthodoxy.

BUNYAN: However, it wasnít long before he began to question traditional interpretations of Jewish law, Chalocha, the teachings he was supposed to pass on.

Rabbi WINKLER: Everything that I had been raised with in terms of how to live and how to believe and how to think and the kind of community that I was raised in, was becoming less and less in harmony with who I was evolving and what was evolving inside of me. So, yes, it was scary, and I guess the scary part was the question that kept gnawing at me day and night was, ëMaybe theyíre right.í

Rabbi MEIR FUND (Brooklyn, New York): I think that people have the right to change their beliefs. I think the major objection that the community he used to be part of had to him was that he was trying to sort of keep the best of both worlds. He wanted to somehow be considered in good standing in the community he left and betrayed, even while he was out there having a good time breaking every Chalocha he could get his hands on.

BUNYAN: So Rabbi Winkler expressed his new feelings in a book, a fictional childrenís book based on fact, he said. But to outraged critics in his community, a traitorous anti-Chalochic tract.

Rabbi FUND: "They Called Her Rebbe," Rabbi Gershon Winklerís masterpiece, is, in my opinion and the opinion of many people here, the ultimate chutzpa. And I would add itís a pristine example of consumer fraud. What I object to and what many of us object to is the deceptiveness of Gershon Winkler in using the guise of being a writer of Jewish books of Judaica for young Jewish children, and slipping into the pages of that book beliefs and attitudes that are totally antithetical to what these Jewish children would expect to find in such a bookóand their parents. Using the Maiden of Ludmir as his spokesperson to voice all of his anger and his wishes to downgrade the authority of Rabbinic Judaism.

BUNYAN: His life in chaos, Rabbi Winkler left Brooklyn and headed west.

How is it that you were able to adjust so easily and so comfortably to this kind of environment?

Rabbi WINKLER: I guess this was always in my blood. I just didnít know it until I had my classical midlife crisis and went out to the woods to meditate on my life and realized, wow, being in the woods, living in the wilderness is my life. This felt at home, this felt comfortable, this felt me. So I stayed forever.

(Footage of Winkler reading to a child)

BUNYAN: Rabbi Winkler eventually remarried and moved to New Mexico with his wife and daughter. And here in this wilderness, he says he is discovering alternative interpretations of Jewish law and Judaismís ancient connections to the land.

Rabbi WINKLER: We lived in ghettos because we were forced to by the culture that we lived in. The only thing that held us connected to anything that had to do with the land was our liturgy; our prayers were expressive of our yearning to return to the land there at Israel.

BUNYAN: Rabbi Winkler and his wife discovered parallels between Jewish and Native American Earth-based rituals. The two of them created the Walking Stick Foundation to bring together Jews and Native Americans to learn about each otherís cultures.

Rabbi WINKLER: Every time I watched the medicine man do something, you know, I said, ëWow, this is what -- the whole Book of Leviticus is about this, spreading the meal to the right, to the left, north, south, east, chanting. Oh, my God, you know, what a -- been so blind to this, my own tradition.í And so I wanted to share it with other people, not just Jews, but people in general. They should come and learn from these great teachers that I became friendly with.

Mr. HAROLD LITTLEBIRD: We are all storytellers, we all come from stories. There really isnít a difference there if you look back into your own traditions, tracing them back as far as you can. We all come from that same place and we come from stories, we come from legend, we come from myth, we come from meditation and prayer. And we have that in common with one another. And so it was a -- it was just a very unique way of bridging those two worlds together.

BUNYAN: So the rabbi from Brooklyn has made a new pulpit for himself in the Southwest. His former community remains cautious about his work.

Rabbi FUND: Back to nature, in my mind, has nothing to do with consumer fraud. Back to nature has absolutely nothing to do with trashing Chalochic observance. So I hesitate to even give him any credit for the good things he does, because in the person of Gershon Winkler, they are so intertwined, itís such a package deal, that Iím not sure I know how to unravel all the pieces.

BUNYAN: If you were to meet your creator tomorrow, what would you say in defense of your work?

Rabbi WINKLER: Iím not afraid to face my maker. I think that the decision that I made and the way Iíve just chosen to live feels, for me, truth, and I believe very, very strongly that thatís what the creator wants each of us to discover for ourselves, not what other people think you should be doing, but what you think you should be doing, to be the fullest self that you can possibly be.

BUNYAN: Rabbi Gershon Winkler in Cuba, New Mexico.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: The Mormons ran into a traffic jam this week in their genealogical debut on the information superhighway. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially launched its FamilySearch Web site. It was a huge hit, literally, with an average of 500 hits a second from people hoping to search the churchís vast genealogical database. But there are still a few bugs to work out. The system was frequently overloaded and thereís often a lengthy wait to access the files.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: There is another genealogical project in the news, and it, too, features long waits for those who wish to see it. It concerns the ancestry of "Star Wars," revealed in the new prequel, "The Phantom Menace," which opened last week. Our critic Martha Bayles reports on her encounter with the Force.

MARTHA BAYLES: The new "Star Wars" film, "The Phantom Menace," is rich with the ingredients of myth, monsters, villains, noble queens, exotic worlds, and most of all, heroism, courage, loyalty, grace under pressure. But thatís not the whole story. Pundits, theologians, even the creator of "Star Wars," George Lucas himself, have been saying that this film offers spiritual guidance, delves deeply into theology and deals with the core issues that were around 3,000 years ago.

(Excerpt from "The Phantom Menace")

BAYLES: OK, here we are, walking out of the theater into the harsh light of day, trying to be mindful of the Force, but what does that mean?

We could ask Yoda, the cute wrinkled alien who trains the Jedi Knights. Yodaís discipline has been compared with that of Eastern religions, like Taoism and Zen Buddhism. But really, thereís no comparison. Both Taoism and Zen teach renunciation of self and detachment from the world. This isnít the "Star Wars" philosophy. Even Yoda could see that.

BAYLES: The Jedi have also been compared to medieval Christian knights like those who served King Arthur. But here again, thereís something missing. Instead of upholding a stern morality, the Jedi go with the power of positive thinking.

(Excerpt from "The Phantom Menace")

BAYLES: With all due respect to Yoda, the Dark Side in "The Phantom Menace" has less to do with fear and anger than with unfair trade practices.

Mr. GEORGE LUCAS: The story starts out on the planet of Naboo, which has been blockaded by the Trade Federation.

BAYLES: It was Lucas, not Yoda, who told Time magazine that the Dark Side is really about ëgreed, getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things.í A strange sentiment coming from a man whose projected box office earnings are a mere $800 million compared to the $1 billion he expects to make from merchandise, action figures, toys, video games, T-shirts, pillows. In a word, things.

When the first "Star Wars" appeared in 1977, it came as a breath of fresh air in a jaded society. It said to young people ëDonít be cynical, there are new worlds to conquer. Believe in yourself. Trust your instincts. And you can do it with wit and panache.í In a way this was Lucasí own story. Thwarted by Hollywood, he started his own company and, using cutting-edge technology, created his own imaginative world. And like his heroes, he won.

But now Lucas rules an empire. And empire rulers have a way of taking themselves a bit too seriously. This "Star Wars" is a rollicking good adventure, but as a guide to spiritual life on this planet, it wonít get you out of the parking lot. Iím Martha Bayles for RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, in Los Angeles.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: And finally, something old made new again. After more than 20 years of restoration, Leonardo da Vinciís "The Last Supper" was reopened for public display in Milan. The newly vibrant fresco of Jesus and his disciples had been severely damaged by centuries of dirt, decay and by poorly executed previous restoration attempts. Some in the art world criticized this restoration process as well. But the expert in charge insisted it merely re-discovered the life and light of da Vinciís original religious masterpiece.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MAUREEN BUNYAN: And thatís our report for now. Next week a special report, our exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama at his home in exile in India. The internationally recognized Buddhist leader talks about spiritual life, practices and his hoped-for return to his homeland in Tibet. Bob Abernethy returns next week. Iím Maureen Bunyan. Thanks for being with us.

As we leave you, sacred music by opera composers performed by the Thomas Circle Singers of Washington, DC, under the direction of James Kreger.

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