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TRANSCRIPT:
Episode no. 531
April 5, 2002
BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Coming up, another sexual issue facing the Catholic Church: gays in the priesthood.
Father RICHARD MCBRIEN: The fact of the matter is, if these trends continue, the Catholic Church will run out of priests, certainly run out of heterosexual priests.
ABERNETHY: And a church that helps people recover from being homeless.
KEARY KINCANNON: We have a very specific focus in reaching out to what we say the least, the lost, the lonely, the left out.
ABERNETHY: Welcome. I'm Bob Abernethy. It's good to have you with us.
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BOB ABERNETHY: As violence continued in the Middle East this week, world-wide concerns, both about how to stop it and how to protect some of the regions most sacred sites. Just days after Holy Week and Easter services inside the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, the Christian shrine became a battleground, as Israeli troops responded to a rash of Passover suicide bombings with a major military offensive in the West Bank. The ancient church built over the place Christians revere as the birthplace of Jesus, became the center of a standoff between armed Palestinian militiamen inside and Israeli forces surrounding them. Dozens of Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests, monks and nuns also took refuge inside the church. Leaders of the Holy Land's Christian denominations issued a desperate joint appeal for outside help from the United States, the U.N. and the Vatican.
Pope John Paul II initiated a new Vatican diplomatic effort aimed at stemming what he called the unheard of violence. He asked all Catholics to make Sunday a special time of prayer for peace in the region.
Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon attempted to shore up Jewish support on an international conference call with 700 Jewish leaders, many of them American. Sharon said Israel was in a battle for the nation's homes, values and way of live.
Here in this country, Christian, Jewish and Muslim leaders in New York gathered for an interfaith prayer service for peace.
We spoke by phone with Brother Vincent Malham on Friday. He's an American and the president of Bethlehem University. Brother Vincent and his staff have been held under guard since Israeli troops occupied their campus early in the week.
Brother Vincent, welcome. From what you can see and hear of the rest of Bethlehem, what does it feel like and look like there?
Brother VINCENT MALHAM (Bethlehem University): The feel is one of terror and of fear of what's going to happen next. It's a ghost town again. It's one in which you see a lot of military force all over and it's one in which the people are just waiting in dread and anticipation of what the next steps will be.
ABERNETHY: How have you been treated and how safe do you feel?
Brother MALHAM: Well, on one hand we -- you know we don't like it all that we're under house arrest and that our university has been taken over by Israeli troops. On the other hand, I must say, honestly we've been treated decently, and we've not been threatened.
ABERNETHY: What's the situation as you understand it at the Church of the Nativity?
Brother MALHAM: From what we have heard, I think the people in the church are safe right now, but I think there's this air of apprehension of what could happen next unless this settlement is reached.
ABERNETHY: When the Israelis leave, what are your plans? Are you going to stay and continue to teach there or are you going to leave?
Brother MALHAM: Oh, no. I had the opportunity to leave today when U.S. Consulate people came to ask if we wanted to be rescued and all of us brothers said ,"No, we're staying." We plan to stay and to reopen the university.
ABERNETHY: Brother Vincent, good luck to you, many thanks.
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BOB ABERNETHY: There's been a wave of anti-Semitism in Europe, apparently a reaction to the Middle East violence. In France and Belgium, arsonists armed with gasoline bombs and other explosives attacked several synagogues and a Jewish cemetery. A synagogue in the city Marseilles was burned to the ground, and in Germany, two Orthodox Jews from America were attacked by a street gang.
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BOB ABERNETHY: In the U.S., a new poll of American Catholics shows most feel the priest sexual abuse scandal has harmed the Church but not their own faith. According to a survey conducted for The Washington Post, ABC News and BeliefNet.com, 64 percent said the scandal had hurt the reputation of the Catholic Church, but 95 percent of those who attend weekly mass said it had not caused them to rethink their faith.
The scandals in the Catholic Church has prompted wide-ranging questions about sexual orientation and practice, among them, issues of homosexuality. Experts insist that pedophilia, sexual attraction to children, has no connection to homosexuality. Still, the crisis has renewed attention to gays in the priesthood -- how many there are, what the consequences may be, and whether the Church should be concerned. Judy Valente reports.
JUDY VALENTE: This priest is homosexual.
PRIEST X: We're certainly aware that there are lots of priests who are gay.
VALENTE: The Catholic Church teaches that it is not a sin to have a homosexual orientation, but the church also says that the proper role of sexuality is between a man and a woman and calls homosexuality quote, "intrinsically disordered." This has alienated many gay Catholics.
PRIEST X: It's a very charged subject in the Church right now.
VALENTE: And as for homosexual acts, the Church calls them "gravely sinful." Although this gay priest is celibate -- as all priests are required to be -- he does not want to be identified.
PRIEST X: I don't want to stand before a congregation and them think of me as a gay person precluding what I'm trying to do there, precluding what I'm trying to do ministerially there.
VALENTE: No one has precise figures on the numbers or percentage of priests who are homosexual. There are only estimates. Sexuality or sexual preference are not subjects easily studied in a scientific survey but there are many anecdotes and impressions.
Rich Rasi is a gay man who once served as a priest in the Boston area. He is no longer an active priest but recently officiated at a worship service for gay and lesbian Catholics.
RICH RASI (Former priest): A lot of the recent literature has said that, you know, straight priests are leaving the priesthood because there's so many gay people there, there's not a place for them.
VALENTE: Chris Pett, who is also gay, was an active priest in Illinois for 12 years.
CHRIS PETT (Former Priest): There is absolutely a predominance of gay men who are priests, in my experience.
VALENTE: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist, has studied celibacy and sexuality in the priesthood for 40 years. Now married, Sipe had been a Benedictine monk for 18 years. He taught in three different seminaries. Sipe estimates that 30 percent of the priesthood is homosexually oriented.
Dr. RICHARD SIPE (Psychotherapist): And by the way, when I say that these men are homosexually oriented, I'm not throwing rocks at them anymore than if I would say they're heterosexually oriented. Nor am I implying that they aren't faithful to their vows of practicing celibacy.
VALENTE: Two years ago, in a widely discussed book, Father Donald Cozzens, then rector of the Cleveland Seminary, wrote of the quote, "Growing perception...that the priesthood is, or is becoming, a gay profession."
Jerome Listecki, auxiliary bishop of Chicago, acknowledges that the priesthood may have a slight disproportionate number of gay men, perhaps more than 10 percent, but he rejects studies, cited by Cozzens, that as many as 50 percent of seminarians are homosexual.
Bishop JEROME LISTECKI (Archdiocese of Chicago): The only thing I can tell you is that's not my experience. You know, it -- that might be Cozzens' experience, and even if it's Cozzens' experience, if that's his perception, we should deal with it. We should deal with it because it does give or cast a particular pale on the priesthood.
VALENTE: Why do you think gay men would be attracted to the priesthood?
Bishop LISTECKI: I believe it's the caring and nurturing nature of the priesthood which is part of the task of ministry.
VALENTE: Father Richard McBrien is a theologian at the University of Notre Dame. He says that while gay men may have a sincere vocation to the priesthood, they may be drawn to it for other reasons as well.
Father RICHARD MCBRIEN (University of Notre Dame): Let's be frank about it. I mean, gay people are persecuted in this society. They're hounded. They're looking for respect. They're looking for a vocation or an occupation, a profession that will give them a kind of immediate respect, and since it's a celibate profession, people will not automatically say, "Ah, he's not married," you know. That doesn't make any difference. None of us are married.
VALENTE: The priesthood has lost heterosexual men, not only because thousands have left to get married, but also apparently because of the current climate in some seminaries.
Father MCBRIEN: Some of them who feel they have a genuine vocation to the priesthood go into a seminary and feel very alienated by the gay culture. Now, I don't say this in any homophobic sense. It's just the reality.
Bishop LISTECKI: What if it verges on the majority? Well, I think -- and bishops would have to take a look at assessing whether or not orientation might be a criteria to evaluate whether or not someone should be studying for the priesthood because then suddenly, you know, for the common good of the Church, they would probably have to take a look to see whether or not this does, you know, a detriment to the whole concept of the priesthood.
VALENTE: But there is disagreement over whether homosexual priests are having a detrimental effect on "the common good of the Church."
(to Priest X): Does being gay have any impact on a person's ability to minister?
PRIEST X: I guess I'd rephrase the question by saying, "Does being sexual have an impact on anybody's ability to be minister?" And it's clear that, if it does or does not, we don't have much choice because all of us have a sexual identity, so to answer your question, "No"
VALENTE: Some parishioners seem to ignore the issue. Others say it makes no difference if their priest is gay.
GEORGE MILES (Parishioner): The sexual orientation of a priest certainly is not very high on my list of priorities. I look for a spiritual leader, a teacher, a homolist, a guider of the parish and the people in the parish.
SALLY STREETER (Parishioner): We're all children of God and I think that their ministry comes from their heart and their knowledge. I -- there's no implication to me whatsoever. I don't care.
VALENTE (to Priest X): Do you think that the average Catholic would care if a priest were open about his homosexual orientation?
PRIEST X: I know that some of them would not. I know that some of them would.
VALENTE: They would, says this priest, because of common misconceptions.
PRIEST X: I think whenever you say "gay" there's an association or a pre-supposition that that means sexually active. I think in some people's minds, there's an understanding that homosexuality is somehow related to pedophilia. I think that for some people that they really do believe that orientation is a matter of choice.
Father MCBRIEN: The real problem that parishioners have today is when they lose a heterosexual priest because he meets someone and falls in love and wants to marry, so it isn't so much an animosity towards the gay, as it is a frustration with the system that allows the loss of really top-notch heterosexual priests to marriage but allows gay priests who may in fact -- I say may, be involved in relationships -- they can stay in because they're not going to go up before the altar and get married.
VALENTE: With heterosexual men leaving the priesthood and with some seminaries apparently becoming increasingly gay, what is the future of the priesthood?
Father MCBRIEN: The fact of the matter is, if these trends continue, the Catholic Church will run out of priests, certainly run out of heterosexual priests.
VALENTE: Some Church officials charge that complaints about too many gay priests are really part of a campaign to make priests leave celibacy optional. Richard McBrien says the two issues cannot be separated.
Father MCBRIEN: If you let them get married, you'd have enough priests and that's what they're beginning to say, so the pressure is not going to come from the bishops. The bishops will respond to pressure. The pressure is going to come from the average Catholic family who eventually will wake up to the fact that there aren't enough priests around to provide the kind of sacramental services that they've come to take for granted as Catholics.
VALENTE: Critics of the Church's teachings say it has not kept up with advances in understanding human sexuality. They argue that the Church must re-examine its positions on a variety of issues related to sexual ethics.
Mr. RASI: All of our sister religions, Christian religions, have -- are talking about this openly at conventions, in parishes. Groups of people are getting together. Their bishops are arguing and fighting over it. Ours are not at that point yet.
Father MCBRIEN: If there's an open discussion of gays in the priesthood, that means that there'll be eventually, or at the same time, a discussion of celibacy in the priesthood and that in turn is going to make it easier to have a even more open discussion about human sexuality in the Church, not just in the priesthood.
VALENTE: According to McBrien, the Church has not confronted some of its most sensitive issues.
Father MCBRIEN: Birth control, abortion, homosexuality, divorce, those are our hot-button issues. Why? There important issues. It's because we haven't resolved them.
Dr. SIPE: The long-term implications of all the sexual, quote, "problems," that the Church faces, is, I believe, a greater understanding of human sexuality, the spiritual dimensions of it, a more rational approach to sexuality on all levels, and ultimately, I believe, the development of a theology of sexuality where sex will not be relegated to original sin and that's bad and spirituality to everything that's non-sexual.v
VALENTE: But for now, whatever the arguments about its sexual teachings, Church officials foresee no change.
Bishop LISTECKI: In 200, 300, 400 years from now, the Church's teaching will be consistent as it is today because it's rooted in sacred scripture and it's rooted in the authentic magisterium which reflects upon the natural law. It's not going to change. It won't change.
VALENTE: For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, this is Judy Valente in Chicago.
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BOB ABERNETHY: Now part two of our report on the homeless in America -- today on the so-called "hidden homeless," those who may not look much different from anyone else but who cannot afford a place to live. Experts say they're a majority of the country's estimated 800,000 homeless men, women and children. Deryl Davis reports on one group of the hidden homeless and the Church that is trying to help them.
DERYL DAVIS: A service for homeless people who died in Northern Virginia, about four miles from the White House. Many here today are homeless themselves. Some worry that unless something changes, their names could be on this list someday.
UNIDENTIFIED HOMELESS MAN: What has happened to the love that man must show each other? Why not change? Why not go back to help someone? I know I need it because without it I'm destined to die either in the streets, jail or an institution.
DAVIS: There are 25 percent more homeless people in Fairfax County today than there were four years ago, one of the sharpest increases in the nation in one of its most affluent regions. At any given time, well more than 2,000 people in this county are homeless.
The average rent here has jumped 40 percent since 1998, and while new housing is being built for those who have money, experts say the working core, which is what most homeless here are, have become almost invisible.
Mostly they live day to day, in shelters, low-rent motels or local parks, like John Lewis who sleeps in the woods. He suffers from emphysema, high blood pressure and other illnesses.
JOHN LEWIS (Homeless man, walking by his shack in park): It's cold. It's wet. It's lonely. There's always darkness. I mean, it seems like even in the daylight, it's dark. It just seems like there's a haze over most things. I do pretty good, and I burn a lot of sterno. It doesn't, you know, produce a lot of heat, but in a place this small, insulated with plastic, the little bit of heat that it do produce, it just stays inside. I wash up in the morning with the little towelettes. I've got my water, I brush my teeth. Here's a bag of socks, shirts, you know, under-T-shirts, a dress shirt just in case I want to go to church and change.
DAVIS: Most people don't even know these hidden homeless exist but advocates say they represent about 80 percent of the total homeless population in this area. That's especially true along Route 1. A number of homeless have died crossing this busy highway in recent months. John Lewis faces it each week on his way to church.
Keary Kincannon, a United Methodist minister, started Rising Hope Church here six years ago. It was created especially for people like John.
Reverend KEARY KINCANNON (Pastor, Rising Hope Church): We have a very specific focus in reaching out to what we say -- the least, the lost, the lonely, the left out.
DAVIS: Kincannon says about 85 percent of his congregation is, or has been homeless.
Rev. KINCANNON: We've got so many folks that come here with so many problems, people that would be rejected in other churches and other situations because they know we genuinely love them, we genuinely care for them.
DAVIS: Kincannon calls Rising Hope a "recovery" church.
UNIDENTIFIED HOMELESS WOMAN: As you nail your sins to the cross, know that you are forgiven in the name of Jesus Christ.
DAVIS: Many of its members, some of whom have children, are recovering from addiction or simply the shame and trauma of being homeless.
GLORIA HARRELL (Rising Hope Church): You become faceless, you become -- you're just there. I mean, it's like a gray area. I called myself at one time, a leper. I felt like a leper.
DAVIS: Gloria Harrell leads a twelve-step spiritual recovery circle at Rising Hope. She was homeless herself for many years, the result, she says, of out of control spending and a destructive lifestyle.
Ms. HARRELL: If I've made it, then I have a duty to my brothers and sisters to help them.
DAVIS: The problems associated with homelessness are very real for Tom Star-King. He's been homeless on and off for 30 years, although he works hard not to appear so. He keeps his worldly goods in a storage closet and commutes back and forth to a shelter.
TOM STAR-KING (Homeless man): You're going to get discriminated against, period, if you appear -- if you appear to be homeless, so that's why you have to keep up a facade.
DAVIS: Tom says his involvement at Rising Hope has helped him deal with emotional problems and alcoholism, but it's a daily fight.
Mr. STARKING: Alcohol is a disease, and that's why I'm having trouble battling that. My faith says one thing but my disease says another thing.
DAVIS: Tom washes dishes part-time at a restaurant and volunteers many days at Rising Hope.
Rev. KINCANNON: Tom has taken some wonderful steps to deal with his situation. He's not out of the woods yet. He's got a lot of work to do in his life, but he's got a lot to give.
DAVIS: Kincannon empowers his church members like Tom by holding them accountable for their behavior and telling them that they, too, should do something to help others. For Tom, that includes joining a Friday night food delivery to other homeless people living along Route 1. The Phoenix Rising Food delivery is led by United Methodist field minister Abi Foerster.
Reverend ABI FOERSTER: Phoenix Rising.
(to Homeless Man): How are you? Knew you were coming.
UNIDENTIFIED HOMELESS MAN: Overton, do you want some sandwiches? And don't forget our pop.
Rev. FOERSTER: We won't. There you go.
DAVIS: Sometimes the human contact matters most. As for these homeless people, their campsite on the grounds of Fort Belvoir was broken up by the military police.
Unidentified Man 1: But I have feelings, man.
Unidentified Man #2: I know.
Man #1: No hope.
Rev. FOERSTER (leading a prayer): For everyone who has lost their home today, we just ask that you would be with each of us, that you would help open doors for new places to live and to be.
DAVIS: Sarah Hoover is the lay leader at Rising Hope Church. She says she's learned that all kinds of people can become homeless in all kinds of places. She learned it the hard way, by becoming homeless herself as a result of a medical emergency that put her out of work, in debt without health coverage and in a shelter.
SARAH HOOVER (Rising Hope Church): Yeah, this is where I first stayed. A lot of times, you have to come into overflow because the main building is full, and this is the women's section over here and this -- the men's is a much larger area. They generally have more men than women.
So there was kind of a -- I'm mocking, I guess, in a way, with my situation, what are you doing here, and, you know, how could you come to this situation? It's hard to find a bond with people because I didn't really fit a certain mold, I guess, that a lot of people were used to seeing.
DAVIS: Sarah says there were times when the trauma of being homeless was so great she just wanted to die. But she doesn't regret that experience now.
Ms. HOOVER: I would have never been able to understand what people go through, nor could I speak to other groups that don't understand about homelessness.
DAVIS: Today, Sarah leads church committees and tries to explain Rising Hope's needs to groups that support its mission.
Ms. HOOVER: We really need people from, you know, the other churches, and from the community to come in because, you know, a lot of the people that are coming in are struggling with some serious issues themselves, and it's hard for them to serve on committees or boards.
Rev. KINCANNON: We are, sometimes, running the risk of burnout and certainly live on that edge a lot.
DAVIS: Kincannon admits there are many challenges associated with a church like Rising Hope but he says the church was created to include everyone, no matter their condition.
Rev. KINCANNON: It's bringing God's love to that part of the community that the church has sometimes not done a very good job of doing, and it's bringing God's love to the unlovable, to recognize that God does love everyone.
(Praying): Go now and celebrate recovery because life is worth celebrating.
DAVIS: In Fairfax County, Virginia, I'm Deryl Davis.
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BOB ABERNETHY: Finally, on our calendar this week, Tuesday is Yom Hashoah, or Holocaust Remembrance Day, honoring the six million Jews killed by the Nazis in World War II.
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BOB ABERNETHY: That's our program for now. I'm Bob Abernethy. Our coverage of homelessness in America continues this week on the Web. Visit www.pbs.org for behind-the-scenes interviews with our reporters. Also, an exclusive interview with Philip Mangano, President Bush's new homeless czar and the lessons he's learned from the homeless.
 Back to Article Finder: Stories by Week
© 2002 EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Prepared by Burrelle's Information Services, which takes sole responsibility for accuracy of transcription. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce any copy of the material except for user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be reproduced, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any manner that may infringe upon EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORATION's copyright or proprietary interests in the material.
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