Q: How important was Turkey in the establishment of Christianity?
A: What we now know as Christianity has some of its earliest beginnings in Turkey. Those places in what we now call Turkey -- Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, these ancient cities with their rich Greek heritage before the Romans come -- are becoming important cities for the Romans, then become important cities for Christians. So we identify traditions about Paul in Ephesus. We identify traditions about John in Ephesus. We identify churches in Ephesus as early as the middle of the first century through the second century, into the third century -- complexes of traditions that are tied to these ancient cities. Pound for pound, as it were, we have more remnants of Christian antiquity in Turkey than anywhere else.
Q: Tell us about Paul, how he was placed in Turkey and what he did there.
A: Apparently Paul stayed in the city of Ephesus for maybe as much as three years. It was a base of operation for him. His itinerary is sketchy, and a lot of scholarly ink has been spilled about exactly where he was and when and how long he was there, and really those questions are without resolution, but it's clear that he was in Ephesus around the middle of the first century. That was a very important center for him, a big city, major port and a crossroads for civilization between so-called East and West. From that place Paul was in striking distance to a number of places that were of interest to him -- other well-developed cities of Asia Minor, and then of course, you know, across the water to Macedonia in northern Greece and to Europe. Ephesus was a very important city for Paul [and] continued to be important for what we now call earliest Christianity, as well as other cities in that area [of] Asia Minor, that is, western Turkey. Q: Paul wrote to the church there and wrote about being there.
A: It's clear that he wrote some of his letters from Ephesus. He was in prison there at one point, so that limited his mobility quite a bit, and he made virtue of necessity by writing at that time. Also, we have traditions about Paul being in Ephesus, and the narrative form of those traditions [is] in the Acts of the Apostles for Paul's travels, his itinerations in Asia Minor, in western Turkey generally. We get some evidence from his letters. We get, let's shall we say, a creative itinerary in the Book of Acts. [There is] a lot of scholarly debate about how closely we can follow that and use that as the basis of an historical reconstruction of where he went and when. We also have the so-called Acts of Paul in Thecla. This is not a canonical work but, you know, it's an apocryphal work about Paul and about his travels, and it locates Paul in Derbe, Lystra, Lyconium. The canonical Acts mentions those cities -- Acts chapter 14. But those cities become then the sort of geographical basis for the narrative in this very, well, I'll just say creative and legendary account of Paul's travels in the Acts of Paul in Thecla.
Q: When you visit Ephesus, what can you see that connects you to the Bible stories and the tradition of Paul?
A: One can appreciate, on the basis of what remains, the splendor of the city. It's not too difficult to imagine how impressive the city was in the first century, although I'd say the city's hey day really comes in the second century, with the attention of Hadrian. But still, in the first century it's clear that it's a big city. You see the major thoroughfares, the shops on either side. [It is] quite different now because the harbor has been silted in. You're walking in places that were where water once was, so you don't get quite the feel for that. But you do get a sense of the flavor of urban life in those early centuries in what's left there in Ephesus.
Q: And there is a big amphitheatre there tied to stories about Paul.
A: Apparently there was a riot in the theatre. The Book of Acts tells us there was a riot in Ephesus in this theatre. So especially if one has a guidebook in one hand, the Book of Acts in the other, you can creatively connect the dots. What one doesn't see there are placards that say, "Paul slept here." We don't really know where he was. There's no physical evidence of Paul being there. But then in a place that was traversed by literally millions of people, it's difficult to find evidence of any one person, unless you're a Roman emperor or somebody like that.
Q: What about other places? Let's talk about the tradition of John in Turkey.
A: That's one of the things that make Ephesus especially important, because there is the geographical overlap of Johannine and Pauline tradition. Two heavy hitters in earliest Christianity have traditions there, although of the two, the Johannine tradition has won out in terms of its later legendary representation on the site, and by that I mean the church that was associated with John the apostle. A number of places and artifacts that are associated with John are part of the landscape there, whereas the legendary testimony of John the Apostle, the writer of the Gospel of John, the writer of the letters of John -- there's some material residue for that legend. John's house is there. This is where John was. There is a church that is commemorated to him. For Paul, that's not so. There's no Pauline presence on the footprint of ancient Christian memory there in Ephesus. Paul's legacy is tied to the literary testimony of his presence there, primarily in the Book of Acts and then, as I said, here and there in his own letters.
Q: For John there are ruins of churches that were actually built in his honor?
A: Yes, yes. This person John, this figure of John is the beneficiary of a fulsome biography that develops. Now that biography developed quite a bit later. It's not canonical, but on the basis of legend, on the basis of early traditions that Ephesus is associated with John, associated with Mary the mother of Jesus. These two figures are brought together in the Bible, but we sort of have to read between the lines and understand how that's happened.
Q How did that happen?
A: The figures of John the Apostle, the writer of the fourth Gospel, the writer of those three short letters at the end of the New Testament, and Mary the mother of Jesus are associated in Ephesus and with Ephesus. So when we survey the remains of Byzantine churches and sites dedicated to those two figures, they're in close proximity. Now they came together in the Christian imagination on the basis of the end of the Gospel of John. There, at Jesus' execution, the disciple whom Jesus loved is present. Jesus' mother is present. Both of these people in the Gospel of John, incidentally, are anonymous. In the Gospel of John Jesus' mother is never named. We get her name from the other three Gospels and from other parts of the Christian tradition or the sources of Christian tradition. But these two are together in that poignant moment, and Jesus says from the cross, "Mother, behold your son." Then [he] turns to the beloved disciple [and] says, "Son, behold your mother." He entrusts his mother to the care of the beloved disciple, the disciple whom he loves. Later Christian tradition provides names for those anonymous people. Indeed, in later Christian tradition nobody remains anonymous, if you can help it. Everybody gets a name. So Jesus' mother is Mary, and this disciple whom Jesus loved is the one who's the author of the Gospel, who is John. This John, according to the tradition that developed and flourishes in Ephesus, is also the author of the Book of Revelation. So those seven churches that are mentioned in the Book of Revelation, those are all churches in western Asia Minor, with Ephesus at the beginning of the list of those seven churches in the second and third chapters of the Book of Revelation. These figures -- this beloved disciple, the person who wrote the Gospel, the person who wrote the letters, the person who wrote the Book of Revelation -- they coalesce into this one figure of Johannine tradition identified with Ephesus and associated with Jesus' mother Mary. Mary's house is in Ephesus, and there is a tree that is nearby there, on this mound where these sites are, called Ayosoluk, and Ayosoluk, as far as anybody knows, is a Turkish modification of the word theologos - "theologian" in Greek. This is an epithet that was applied to John. John is the theologian in Byzantine tradition. That area then is associated with John the theologian -- Ayosoluk. There's an entire geographical region there in which his memory resides, and Mary's house is close by. There's this lovely tree that grows nearby on the mound, and depending upon the time of year, if you go by you'll see these little strips of white cloth on the tree. Those are little pieces of cloths that have been tied for prayers. The people who do that are Muslims for the most part, because Mary the mother of Jesus is highly venerated in Islam and especially so there in that region. It's a region that was known from time immemorial [for] venerating holy women and goddesses, all the way back to the mother goddess of the Neolithic period. So in a way she's still venerated on that mound.
Q: You mentioned the seven churches in Revelation. What significance do they play?
A: They're all churches identified with cities, and these are cities that have prospered under Roman rule. They are cities that are associated with commerce. This is the part of Turkey that looks toward the Aegean coast and receives maritime commerce, and these cities are distribution centers for the goods of that maritime commerce. These are cities that enjoyed this prosperity in the late first century. As far as we can tell that's when the Book of Revelation was written. At least one interpretation is that this book, this collection of oracles is an appeal to followers of Jesus in these cities not to be taken up by emoluments of this prosperity -- not to sell out to it. We can see that it stands to reason that this region around this time, enjoying this kind of prosperity -- but with sizable populations of people from Israel that had lived there for some time. Bringing those traditions with them, identifying themselves as Israelites, [they] are experiencing sort of a new cultural-economic moment that's challenging their identity as the followers of the God of Israel, as the followers of Jesus, this prophet of the God of Israel. And the Book of Revelation is calling those people to account, so there's kind of this tension here between sort of worldly wealth on the one hand and fidelity to the God of Israel on the other. I don't think it's any accident, then, that tension is heightened in those cities that are enjoying -- that are living large at this time.
Q: Talk about some of the early church councils that met in Turkey.
A: This is why a trip to Turkey is indispensable for anyone who is interested in Christian origins, or rather it's another reason why. Nicaea, the two councils in Ephesus, the council in Chalcedon -- all these places are in modern Turkey, where this new faith is now receiving the attention of the state. Its sort of internecine conflicts that have been going on for centuries, conflicts over doctrine, over dogma, over who's going to run the show, on what basis, and those kind of things -- very fractious disputes, and now Constantine who has sort of taken this new faith under his wing has decided that he needs to administrate some peace among these fractious elements. So he convenes Nicaea to do that, to iron out all the differences as far as he can do that, as far as he can compel the Christian clergy to do that. [They were] coming from all over the place, from all over the empire.
A: There are some places in Turkey where you'll see a Roman aqueduct or a basilica, you know, just ruins around [which] people have put gates, built gardens, etc. It's a part of the landscape, the history; that material history is literally part of the landscape, and this is something that one comes to expect in a place such as Turkey that's been continually inhabited for, as far as anyone can tell, at least 10,000 years. Before the Ottomans were there, Byzantines were there. Before the Byzantines were there, the Romans were there. Before the Romans were there, the Greeks were there. Before the Greeks were there, Persians. You can go all the way back. Just stick a spade anywhere in the dirt, and you can dig as far down as you care to go, all the way down to the Hittites. I mean, this is a place -- there's a bank in Turkey that's named after the Hittites. So it's a very long, rich cultural heritage with many phases, and it's an intellectual challenge and, based on your taste, even could be an intellectual pleasure to attempt to wrap your mind around all of those.
