BOB ABERNETHY: Now, Perspectives, this week on the ethics of land mines. Are they necessary to save the lives of soldiers, or should they be banned because they take so many lives of civilians?

Ten Chanareft lost both legs to a land mine in Cambodia. On Wednesday, he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize on behalf of the International Campaign to Ban Land Mines and the campaign's coordinator, Jody Williams, who helped bring the issue to the world's attention.

JODY WILLIAMS: They recognized it was not enough to just lift the mines, not enough to just help the victims.

ABERNETHY: Williams's group was largely responsible for getting more than 120 nations to agree to stop using antipersonnel mines.

Ms. WILLIAMS: We achieved this ban because we were right. We achieved this ban because we never wavered. We achieved this ban because it was the morally and ethically correct position.

ABERNETHY: The United States, Russia, and China were among the countries that did not sign the agreement. Even though the U.S. over the past four years has spent more than all nations combined on demining efforts, the administration feels the weapons are necessary for defending certain areas, like the Demilitarized Zone in Korea.

Unidentified Woman: The United States can't really afford to sign a treaty like that. We've got men and women guarding the DMZ in Korea that depend on those land mines for their own safety and security, and in other places in the world as well.

Unidentified Man #1: I think we can find other ways of preventing occupation other than land mines.

Unidentified Man #2: I think President Clinton ought to be above board and stop this kind of two-faced approach, that we're doing more than any other country to try and get rid of them, but we're going to keep ours. I think that's a little disingenuous.

ABERNETHY: Here to analyze the military and moral aspects of land mines are John Carr, Secretary of the Department of Social Development of World Peace of the U.S. Catholic Conference, the National Organization of the U.S. Catholic Bishops, and Dr. Bill Taylor, Senior Vice President of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. To both of you, welcome. John Carr, let me begin with you. What's the argument against land mines?

JOHN CARR (United States Catholic Conference): Well, banning antipersonnel land mines for the Catholic bishops is an urgent moral priority because fundamentally it's a matter of life and death. There are a hundred million of these things strewn about the earth. Twenty-six thousand men, women, and children die or are maimed every year because of land mines. So, there are more land mines than there are children in Angola. So for us, this is an act of loquisial solidarity, it is missionaries and relief workers, and the pope, who has urged us to get involved in the effort to ban land mines because the U.S. has to exercise some leadership. It is not enough for us to say, "You get rid of your land mines, but we're going to keep them."

ABERNETHY: Dr. Taylor, what's your case for them?

Dr. BILL TAYLOR (Center for Strategic and International Studies): Well, let me give you a little background. I spent 27 years in the army. I fought in combat in Vietnam. I know the uses and problems with land mines. But number two, I agree that all dumb, indiscriminate land mines should be banned from the face of this earth, and the United States has had the lead in this. Other people sign papers, like a treaty.

The United States, the Clinton administration, who I do not agree with on many issues, is on the side of the angels on this one. We do more than sign paper and talk, we remove land mines. And the indiscriminate land mines are not ours, except in Korea, and I know Korea, from the north and south side. I'm happy to talk about it.

ABERNETHY: Let me ask you about the moral underpinnings of your arguments. John, what's -- we were talking about the indiscriminate thing. That's core -- that's key for the bishops, isn't it?

Mr. CARR: Well, yes. I mean, what's clear -- Bill makes the case that smart mines are okay and dumb mines are bad. Dumb mines are bad, but smart mines are a big part of the problem because you can't get the world to give up land mines when you say, "We're going to keep ours, you give up yours."