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PERSPECTIVES:
Presidential Ethics
January 23, 1998    Episode no. 121
Read This Week's November 7, 2008
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BOB ABERNETHY: Now Perspectives -- on the ethical questions raised by this week's sensational allegations that the President of the United States had an affair with a 21-year-old White House intern and then encouraged her to commit perjury by lying about the relationship under oath. The president denies the charges completely. We don't yet know the full story. But until we know more, how to react? Nancy Sherman is a professor of ethics at Georgetown University and the U.S. Naval Academy. Robert George is a professor of politics at Princeton University, a constitutional lawyer, and a member of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission. And Philip Wogaman, a senior minister of Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington, where President and Mrs. Clinton worship. Dr. Wogaman is also a Christian ethicist.

Dr. Wogaman, you've preached to the Clintons. You know them. As you watch all this unfold, what seems most important to you as their pastor?

Dr. PHILIP WOGAMAN (Foundry United Methodist Church): Well, I know them as good people. What's most important to me is for the country not to react in an hysterical way about this and to keep a broad sense of all of the ethical values that may be at stake here and definitely not to rush to judgment.

Professor NANCY SHERMAN (Georgetown University): I think we need to link together in our minds the allegations of suborning perjury and possible allegations of adultery. If they're true, then they're linked in a sense that they're both at -- they're both expressions of lying or deceit which, I think, means that there's a little moral seepage here. The notion of perjury is an obstruction of justice. In the public sphere, it seeps into action in the private sphere. They're not totally disintegrated, and there's a lack of moral integrity if we try to separate them. And just one third point -- this is the commander in chief of the nation. Talking to military people, they certainly are thinking about the charges as an infraction of the role of being at the head of a chain of command where our information can reliably be sent and be trusted.

ABERNETHY: Do you think he has lost stature and the ability to perform as commander in chief because of this week's allegations?

Prof. SHERMAN: I think there's some, especially since it's in the area of abuse of power toward women -- if these charges are correct.

ABERNETHY: Professor George, what about this business of separating parts of our lives? What do you make of that?

Professor ROBERT GEORGE (Princeton University): Nancy Sherman is exactly right about this, and she's flying in the face of what's become in a sort of established orthodoxy among the elite segment of our culture -- the idea that it's a sign of moral maturity when people don't take adultery seriously in public officials, but take perjury seriously or suborning perjury seriously. She's right that a person cannot divide his life into those two segments. Rather, integrity is a matter of integrating the different aspects of one's life into a harmonious whole. You can't be a good person in one sphere of life and a bad person in another and expect that that won't have an effect, an eroding effect on character in the areas in which one has so far been able to behave oneself well.

ABERNETHY: Dr. Wogaman, what about that, this dividing or compartmentalizing judgments?

Dr. WOGAMAN: Well, of course, this is all right. One doesn't want to compartmentalize values and moral attitudes. But we're all sinners. There isn't anybody who's perfect. And I would caution people not to weigh the sexual as though it were the only aspect of morality. There are very important issues of justice and human rights and world peace and other things which are probably even more important.

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Prof. SHERMAN: I think that's right. And I think what's probably happening, though, is there is a sense that such important strides in those areas of social justice, there, are nonetheless eroded somewhat by an unreliable or unintegrated character. And I would just say in the area of women's issues -- Clinton has a secretary of state that's a woman -- enormous opportunities. ... for women in the Cabinet; his wife, Hillary Rodham, who is his intellectual and professional peer. And yet, to have an isolated, unintegrated aspect of character -- if these allegations are true in which there is mistreatment of women --

ABERNETHY: Yes.

Prof. SHERMAN: -- it is quite disillusioning to the public.

Dr. WOGAMAN: If true.

Prof. SHERMAN: If true, I caution.

Dr. WOGAMAN: Yes.

Prof. GEORGE: You know, it's certainly one thing to say that all men are sinners and need forgiveness and we should be forgiving toward each other. In fact, we know that we need forgiveness. What I think is very disturbing are allegations of a pattern, a series of adulterous relationships -- matters of sexual harassment. If those are true, then we're not dealing with isolated cases. What we see is a character with a dynamic tendency in the direction of this sort of wrongdoing.

ABERNETHY: But think about all of us -- as we try to sort this out and try to figure out what we think and feel about it, what do we feel? Anger? Embarrassment? I think a lot of people feel that. What would you urge?

Dr. WOGAMAN: I don't think I feel those feelings in quite that way, partly because I don't want to succumb to the hysteria that has gripped so much of the press especially in this time and to assume that allegations are true. I know there has been a concerted effort to damage this presidency -- much of it politically motivated. And there's a kind of a seepage of corrupt mean-spiritedness in our society that affects all of these things.

Prof. GEORGE: It's very important, I think, to avoid on both sides the kinds of reactions that are disruptive. On the one side, to try to destroy a president for reasons that have nothing to do with the charges at hand; and on the other side, I think the administration needs to be very careful not to defend itself by way of a campaign of character assassination against the women who bring the charges.

Prof. SHERMAN: As well, I think, is that we need to take care -- seriously the legalese methods of defense that I think the American public is rather tired of.

ABERNETHY: Well, that's terribly important.

Prof. SHERMAN: That's a case of lying even if it's by mincing words.

ABERNETHY: Yes. To all of you, many thanks. Time's up. I'm sorry.

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