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PERSPECTIVES:
Religious Views on War and U.S. Response
September 21, 2001 Episode no. 503
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BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: We want to expand now on that debate underway about what religious traditions and international law have to say about military retaliation. Michael Young is an international lawyer and Dean of the George Washington University School of Law in Washington D.C. Farid Esack is a professor at Auburn Theological Seminary in New York and teaches Islam at Union Theological Seminary. Lisa Sowle Cahill teaches moral theology at Boston College. Professor Cahill, let me begin with you and with the Christian idea of a "just war." What guidance can that tradition offer about responding to something as awful as the terrorist attack?
DR. LISA CAHILL (Professor of Ethics, Department of Theology at Boston College): Well, one of the first things that it can remind us is that resorting to violence should be a last resort, that Christian just war tradition especially has emphasized a presumption against war. As Thomas Aquinas famously asked in the thirteenth century: "Is it always a sin to wage a war?" The just war tradition has developed because an exception can be made to that presumption, particularly in the case of self-defense.
ABERNETHY: And what about this particular situation? What would be the guidelines?
DR. CAHILL: Well, some of the most important guidelines are, as I mentioned, last resort. Another one of them is proportionality. Will more harm be caused by the means used than by good achieved? Another would be a reasonable hope of success. Are the aims clear and can they be accomplished? And perhaps the most important criterion is non-combatant immunity. Civilians should not be the subjects of direct attack.
ABERNETHY: Professor Esack in New York, is there anything in Islamic tradition that would be a guide to anybody considering how to respond to a terrorist attack?
DR. FARID ESACK (Visiting Professor and Islam Specialist, Union Theological Seminary): Yes, certainly, I think that the Islamic tradition does allow for notions of retaliation and I think that in this particular case, one can also, I mean we can also have a theory of what is comparable to Christianity in the just war theory. And by and large, our guidelines very much parallel or correspond to what we just heard. In this particular case, I think that the Islamic position would be far more looking at a long term of what has induced this, so that one doesn't see this necessarily as an immediate retaliation for an immediate act. But how does a response to this lead to the creation of a more just world, of a more peaceful world, in the long term rather than "how do you get at a particular victim in a particular space or a particular network?"
ABERNETHY: Let me get back to that. Michael Young, let me switch over to international law now. What are the guidances there?
DEAN MICHAEL YOUNG (George Washington University Law School): Well, international law recognizes the inherent right of self-defense and really bounds it largely by notions of proportionality and necessity. That it has to be necessary, and the actions have to be proportional to eliminate the risk or to stop the action.
ABERNETHY: And retaliation, vengeance?
DEAN YOUNG: Well, retaliation can certainly be considered appropriate under international law if it's thought necessary to forestall any future attacks, which is often the justification that states use.
ABERNETHY: And does it matter what international law says in this situation?
DEAN YOUNG: Well, I think it matters importantly in two senses. One is that we want to continue to work to create a society in which -- an international society in which other countries do things that we consider appropriate and not do things simply because they're powerful and strong. And secondly, this is a war in particular that is going to require an enormous amount of cooperation among allies. And the legitimacy of it, the way in which we prosecute it, will matter to them as well.
ABERNETHY: Professor Cahill, in Boston, another issue here is one of holding responsible for terrorism, a government or nation that harbors terrorists, knowingly, I suppose, or unknowingly. What does the Christian tradition have to say about that?
DR. CAHILL: Well, I think that, I'm not sure that the Christian tradition replies specifically to terrorism as a traditional issue but I think that something that I've heard mentioned by many religious thinkers is the need for clearly defining who the enemy is, separating that enemy from others who are much more loosely related, and having some kind of persuasive and clear evidence that the adversary that we've identified is really guilty of the crimes of which he is accused.
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ABERNETHY: Professor Esack, regrettably, I suppose, throughout much of the Middle East this weekend, there have been calls in Mosques for a holy war, and accusations against the U.S. that we were mounting a crusade against Islam. What do you make of that?
DR. ESACK: I do not think that these accusations are justified. I think that six thousand people are still buried under rubble. I think that the United States, in some ways, is entitled to ask for some kind of justice in the middle of all of this. But the reality is this: that very many people in the Middle East and other parts of the world see the bombing of the World Trade Center as, in fact, retaliation for what other people in other parts of the world have received at the hands of the United States. Whether it is with economic policies or its military policies or through its quote-unquote anti-terrorist policies in the past. And so these people do in fact see that the United States is embarking upon the movement as a war against Islam.
ABERNETHY: Many people in this country would, under the present circumstances, would want very much to kill Osama bin Laden, if that were possible. What do your various traditions say about assassination? Dean Young?
DR. YOUNG: Well, international law actually says surprisingly very little about it. But on the other hand, if you look at the Hague and the Geneva Conventions, and the right of self-defense, there is certainly the capacity to target combatants. And if this is viewed to be a combatant and if this is necessary and proportional, I think that most international scholars would think there is room for that.
ABERNETHY: Lisa Cahill?
DR. CAHILL: I think that the Christian just war tradition has generally been against assassination. That has been regarded as an ultimate exception by some authors, considered as a boundary measure, morally dubious.
ABERNETHY: Professor Esack, if we could find Mr. Bin Laden, what then? Could we put him on trial? What does Islamic law say about something like that?
DR. ESACK: You would have to put the person on trial, and Islamic law wouldn't insist that it would have to be done in an Islamic country, except it would have to be a trial that is not characterized by all the anger, by a whole lot of people seeing through things, seeing things through the eyes of passion, through the whole emotive from everybody. There would have to be a way in which injustice is seen to be done and justice is actually done. But above all, the problem is that at the moment, much of the discourse is framed in heretical terms, when you talk about infinite justice, when you talk about a crusade. And so it is inevitable that when you get to Osama bin Laden, very many people in the Muslim world, regrettably as it is, is going to see this as a war against Islam and the right wing in this country are, in large measure, responsible for framing this battle in these particular terms.
ABERNETHY: So, Mr. Esack, what do you think would be an effective and just response by the United States?
DR. ESACK: An effective and just response on the part of the United States would be to in concert with Muslim societies, work out a way of preventing any kind of terrorism, whether it is by states or by individuals, and also a trial in a fair, in an unprejudiced country for Osama bin Laden. There have been examples recently in the Lockerbie case, for example, has been such a precedent. And so there are precedents for this. Whether any person can get a free trial in the moment, in the righteous America, that is really contested.
ABERNETHY: Yes. Dean Young, could Osama bin Laden be convicted, from what we know about his responsibility, here -- could he be convicted in an American court?
DEAN YOUNG: I think there's a high likelihood that they have the kind of evidence that would permit a conviction.
ABERNETHY: Yes. Lisa Cahill, once again, the bottom line, as far as the just war tradition, and we should mention, a tradition of Christian pacifism, as well.
DR. CAHILL: Right. I think the bottom line is be cautious. Particularly, don't allow religious rhetoric to spur volatile emotions that lead us away from the kind of careful analysis that the just war theory is designed to foster. So, caution, restraint, and good evidence, as well as a measured response would be the advice.
ABERNETHY: Thank you, my thanks to Dean Michael Young, of the George Washington School of Law, here in Washington, to Professor Lisa Cahill, of Boston College, and Professor Farid Esack, at Union Theological Seminary in New York.
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Related R & E Materials:
Read more of what our roundtable participants had more to say about war and the U.S. response to the terrorist attacks.
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Related Readings:
LOVE YOUR ENEMIES: DISCIPLESHIP, PACIFISM AND JUST WAR THEORY
by Lisa Sowle Cahill
VIOLENCE AND THE SACRED IN THE MODERN WORLD
by Mark Juergensmeyer
TERROR IN THE MIND OF GOD: THE GLOBAL RISE OF RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE
by Mark Juergensmeyer
MORALITY AND CONTEMPORARY WARFARE
by James Turner Johnson
THE HOLY WAR IN WESTERN AND ISLAMIC TRADITIONS
by James Turner Johnson
THE QUEST FOR PEACE: THREE MORAL TRADITIONS IN WESTERN CULTURAL HISTORY
by James Turner Johnson
CROSS, CRESCENT, AND SWORD: THE JUSTIFICATION AND LIMITATION OF WAR IN WESTERN
AND ISLAMIC TRADITION
edited by James Turner Johnson and John Kelsay
JUST WAR TRADITION AND THE RESTRAINT OF WAR
by James Turner Johnson
CAN MODERN WAR BE JUST?
by James Turner Johnson
THE HOLY WAR
edited by Thomas Patrick Murphy
CHRISTIAN ATTITUDES TOWARD WAR AND PEACE
by Roland Bainton
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THE ETHICS OF WAR AND PEACE: RELIGIOUS AND SECULAR PERSPECTIVES
edited by Terry Nardin
TRADITIONS OF INTERNATIONAL ETHICS
by Terry Nardin
MORALITY AND THE RELATIONS OF STATES
by Terry Nardin
WAR IN THE 20th CENTURY: SOURCES IN THEOLOGICAL ETHICS
edited by Richard B. Miller
JUST AND UNJUST WARS: A MORAL ARGUMENT WITH HISTORICAL ILLUSTRATIONS
by Michael Walzer
DEFENDERS OF GOD: THE FUNDAMENTALIST REVOLT AGAINST THE MODERN AGE
by Bruce Lawrence
DEFENDERS OF REASON IN ISLAM
by Richard C. Martin
THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE REMAKING OF WORLD ORDER
by Samuel P. Huntington
WINDOWS ON THE HOUSE OF ISLAM: MUSLIM SOURCES ON SPIRITUALITY AND RELIGIOUS LIFE
edited by John Renard
THE WORLD OF ISLAM: FAITH, PEOPLE, CULTURE
by Bernard Lewis
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Related Link:
PBS: America Responds
Transcript of Bill Moyers' conversation with Farid Esack, September 18,
2001.
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