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INTERVIEW:
Prof. Carl Ernst
August 23, 2002    Episode no. 551
Read This Week's July 18, 2008
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Photo of Prof. Carl Ernst Read more of RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY'S interview with UNC religious studies professor Carl Ernst about the freshman summer reading assignment, APPROACHING THE QUR'AN by Michael Sells:

Is the book an inadequate representation of Islam?
We are not attempting to represent Islam in toto, which is impossible to do with any book, in any case. We are not even trying to represent all of the Qur'an. We are actually making use of a brilliantly designed pedagogical package. This book presents the Qur'an the way it is studied by beginners who approach it. It consists of short and very easily encountered suras [chapters] at the end of the Qur'an, and they have a powerful language; they illustrate central themes.

For those who wish to read a more extensive account of the Qur'an, we have courses where we can do this. I think there is a certain amount of hypocrisy on the part of some of the critics who claim that we are whitewashing what they regard as an "evil" religion. People who have a negative agenda like that should realize that a public university is no place either for advocacy of a particular religion or for denigrating it.

If there are complicated political and even military conflicts referred to in the Qur'an, those deserve a full study. But they do not deserve to be treated out of context, in a selective fashion.

Does the book distort an understanding of Islamic extremism and the attacks of Sept. 11?
Using this book is really not going to explain the terrorist attacks of last September. I think readers of the Bible are aware that the Devil can quote scripture, and just because you have extremists like Aryan Nation types who quote from the Bible and claim to be a kind of church, they do not suggest that Christianity is, therefore, completely invalidated.

It has been all too easy for some people to suggest that the entire Islamic faith is discredited by the actions of a small group of terrorists. We can't answer all those questions in a two-hour discussion. What we are trying to do is use this as a springboard, opening up the subject.

We have courses. We have lectures. We have discussions. We expect students are going to pursue these issues throughout the coming months...But in an exercise like the Summer Reading Program, we can only hope to open up a subject in a very introductory fashion, and the university is able to deal with more complicated questions at greater length. That's the way we do it in a public university.

Is there a danger that the book beautifies Islam?
In the public university, we do not advocate one religion over another, and we do not attack any particular religion. Some critics are unhappy to have any religion treated with fairness and open-mindedness, except their own. That's unfortunate. We are using guidelines that have been well established for several decades, following Supreme Court decisions that are widely agreed upon by mainstream religious groups. And if fringe elements wish to push their own point of view, we simply cannot accept that as a basis for our own educational activities.

How do Muslims use the Qur'an, and what it means to them?
Only 20 percent of Muslims speak Arabic. But everyone is expected to learn short passages from the Qur'an for the purposes of prayer and religious practice, and these selections at the end of the Qur'an are very widely used in such contexts. These are the kinds of things that most people would be exposed to in learning about the Qur'an.

Muslims regard the Qur'an as the Word of God. They recite it orally, which is a very important thing for us to understand. It has sound. It has rhyme. It has pattern and rhythm and, therefore, the inclusion of a CD with recitations of the original Arabic is an extremely important part of understanding how this is experienced.

The Qur'an is a holy object to be treated with respect, and there are complex rules governing that. Like the Hebrew Bible, or the sacred scriptures of India, which are still recited in Sanskrit in some cases, we need to understand the use of a text in an oral way -- something that's rather different from how scriptures are used sometimes in Protestant Christianity, for instance.

For many Christian groups, Jesus is regarded as the Word of God. One of the central ritual acts is the Holy Communion or Eucharist, in which the Word of God is internalized physically in the form of the communion wafer and wine.

In Islamic theology, the Qur'an is the Word of God and is analogous to Jesus in Christian thinking in this respect. For Muslims, to recite the Qur'an is comparable to taking Holy Communion for a Christian, because it is an internalization of that Word of God, recited through one's own voice in the original language. It is a sacred experience for them, and they clearly have regarded it as a profound and meaningful event.

Does the summer reading assignment convey the values taught by the Qur'an?
The texts included in APPROACHING THE QUR'AN particularly focus on the notion of judgment, of moral responsibility, of the need to care for those members of society who are at risk. It reinforces also the notion of God as the judge, the one who examines the conscience of all humanity. Those are themes that I think a lot of people can understand.

We're not asking anybody to endorse them, or to give their own personal approval to anything, but we want to explore this as a text that has been centrally important for a large part of humanity over a period of centuries.

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How did you prepare the teachers leading the discussion groups?
We emphasized the basic principles of teaching about religion in a public setting. This is language endorsed by the Supreme Court. We teach about religion, instead of teaching religion, which is what churches and religious communities do. We did draw attention to the fact that there is a heritage of anti-Islamic prejudice that is comparable to anti-Semitism and racism that needs to be critically examined. This means that we should try to give the opportunity to understand Islam in its own terms without simply taking the opinions of people who are against it.

In addition, we'd like to emphasize that Islam is not something that just appeared suddenly from foreign shores. It has been part of American history for at least two centuries, and part of European history for over a thousand years...there have been Muslims in America, including a very famous one in North Carolina, Omar Ibn Sayyed [Said] who, in the early 1800s, wrote his autobiography in Arabic while enslaved on a North Carolina plantation. An exhibit at the Ackland Art Museum at UNC includes a photograph of Omar Ibn Sayyed and a document in his handwriting, in Arabic, that is actually an Arabic translation of "The Lord's Prayer" from the New Testament, that includes blessings on the Prophet Muhammad.

Has Islam been demonized since Sept. 11?
Islam has been demonized for a long time in European history. But I think that there has been an understandable concern that if you have a horrifying event taking place with people who quote from a particular text to justify themselves, people turn for answers to try to understand -- was there something about that text that caused this to happen?

Historical texts written centuries ago are not the cause of contemporary conflicts. They can be used to justify all different types of things, but if you want to understand contemporary conflicts, you need to understand contemporary history, and that is a separate issue.

Is there only one way to interpret the Qur'an?

There are many ways of interpreting any sacred text. One of the virtues of Michael Sells's book is that he not only draws attention to the multiple interpretations that have existed within the Islamic tradition, but also provides, in some cases, as many as three different translations of the same text, just to indicate how rich and ambiguous it can be...Some people will say there's only one meaning to a text, and they will tell you what it is. From the viewpoint of the study of religious history, we are well aware that there are many, many different interpretations. And we wish to point this out as a simple fact of history and sociology to our students. That way, I think, they will be much better equipped to deal with the complexity of these subjects in their own lives.

Most people are aware that there are many different types of Christianity, some of which differ dramatically on central issues of theology and interpretation. Likewise, it's important to point out that Islam is not a monolithic tradition. There are critical issues upon which major groups disagree, and this has been part of their history, as well.

By opening up just this first glimpse into the sacred scriptures of Islam, we also want to open up students to the diversity of opinions that have existed within that tradition.

In assigning this text to entering freshmen, are you promoting Islam?
We are not promoting any religion. We are simply saying something I believe is irrefutable: Islam has been an important part of history in society, and for us to pretend otherwise would be foolish. An educated person ... needs to know about the history of religion in order to understand the way the world works -- and, indeed, our own society works -- as Islam increasingly becomes recognized as a part of American society.

Assigning APPROACHING THE QUR'AN is really about what kind of world we live in. In that respect, I don't believe there is any basis for criticizing it on the grounds that it might advance one religion over another. It is a part of a serious and responsible evaluation of the educational needs of today.

What does the public debate about the assignment say about the state of education and American culture?
Summer reading programs have been in existence for 20 or 30 years. But I think this attracted so much interest precisely because it is a sacred scripture. It's clearly one with which most people are very unfamiliar. The debate, in my mind, more than amply justifies the original decision to assign this text. We hoped, through the Summer Reading Program, to introduce a book that would stimulate discussion about serious ideas and engage students with the wider world. I think we've done that. If we can find a book next year that will come anywhere close to generating this kind of discussion, we'll be happy.

You teach a course on religion, fundamentalism and nationalism. Knowing what you know, would you have predicted there would be an attack against a Western country based on Islam -- an act of retribution against American or Western values?
I don't think anyone was in a position to predict the attacks of Sept 11. The key factor was an extremist group, unlike many other extremist groups, that had a massive amount of funding and a base in a collapsing country from which to operate with near impunity. I certainly did not predict that the al Qaeda group would be operating to such an incredibly disastrous extent. We had studied the pronouncements of Osama bin Laden in some of my classes five years ago, and we considered him -- at least I did -- to be an extremist like Timothy McVeigh. But I didn't anticipate that he would have the material access to carry out his violent fantasies.

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