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INTERVIEW:
Jeff Sharlet
May 28, 2004    Episode no. 739
Read This Week's November 7, 2008
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Read an interview with Jeff Sharlet, co-author of KILLING THE BUDDHA: A HERETIC'S BIBLE and editor of Web review THE REVEALER:

Your book is subtitled A HERETIC'S BIBLE, and you've said that America is a nation of heretics. What do you mean by both?

Photo of Jeff Sharlet We embraced the name "heretic" after an interview we did with several "Radical Orthodoxy" theologians. John Milbank is probably the leading figure in the Radical Orthodoxy movement, which is a school of thinkers who combine the insights of postmodern theory with the tenets of orthodox Christianity. They identify postmodernism with quite a bit of medieval theology, agreeing with contemporary postmodern thinkers in their critique of capitalism and media culture right up to the point where, according to Milbank, Graham Ward, and others, they dead-end in nihilism. In that abyss, the Radical Orthodoxy thinkers see God.

I don't subscribe to Radical Orthodoxy, but I find it to be brilliant at revealing hidden surfaces. When applied to the term "heresy," it points out what should be obvious, but isn't: that "heresy" necessarily presupposes belief. You can't be a heretic unless you recognize something of value in the old system -- something worth critique. Secularism itself becomes an invention of theology.

And then there's the word itself. "Heresy" comes from a Greek word that means "to choose." In America, ironically, we almost have no choice but to choose what we believe. There is no state religion, and there are an almost uncountable variety of religious experiences. So we absorb influences from every direction and choose the tradition -- or lack of tradition -- that we're going to live with. A HERETIC'S BIBLE is by heretics -- writers who believe that there's something worth paying attention to within tradition and scripture, even as there's much to critique -- and for heretics -- readers who shape their beliefs by learning about the beliefs of others.

What is your own religious background and how did it figure in researching and writing the book?

I grew up in what seemed like a mostly Catholic town in upstate New York. My father is Jewish, and my mother, with whom I lived, had been raised in a very unusual Pentecostal home. Her mother, a very poor Tennessean without a whole lot of education, had at an early age discovered a box of discarded books -- Dostoyevsky and Balzac and Tolstoy and books of Eastern religion. This was in rural Tennessee in the 1930s. So she raised my mother to be interested in everything, and my mother did the same for me. Going to other people's churches and temples, gathering stories -- in my family, that was just how you did religion. I didn't even know it was religion, in fact, which probably helped me become the kind of religion writer I have. I gravitate to stories about what people believe and don't believe and how that affects their lives, because that seems the most natural way to engage the world around me.

Peter Manseau, my co-author, has the kind of family that raises eyebrows; his father was and remains a Roman Catholic priest, and his mother was a nun. They married in the 1960s, after the reforms of Vatican II, with high hopes for further changes in the church, including a married priesthood. Obviously, that didn't happen, but his parents have stayed the course. They're still very much engaged with church life, albeit as outsiders and insiders at the same time. Peter added to that already crazy mix a real passion for Jewish culture. He and I met at an organization called the National Yiddish Book Center, where I was editing a magazine, and he came on to help design exhibits about Yiddish books. To him, one of the central questions about religion has to do with loyalty -- how you remain true to a community, the values of which you might not entirely share. That's also one of the crucial questions of religious life in America.

What did you learn about America's religious landscape in your travels across the country? Did you change your mind about anything along the way? What religious assumptions of your own got questioned, challenged, or upended?

We never wanted to make one of those quirky, crazy guides to weird America, but we probably were a little more flippant at the beginning. We planned the book the summer of 2001, and then came September 11. After that, everybody was thinking about religion, and everyone wanted to talk to us about it. Far more people had questions than answers, including, of course, us.

One of the things that surprised us was how interested in this big conversation about belief and meaning nearly everyone was. Even fundamentalists. Sometimes especially fundamentalists. We learned that much of what you read in the press about religious voting blocs and the like is really just a way to simplify the complexity and wonders of American religious life -- either for a news story or for a bit of political propaganda. We learned that American religious life is, for the most part, incredibly democratic, that most people value most of all freedom of speech -- which is to say, storytelling.

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You concentrate on iconoclasts, misfits, hotheads, and the extremes of spiritual behavior. Why is that the place from which to tell the story of American religious belief and experience?

The margins of faith in America can tell you a lot about the mainstream. Oftentimes, they overlap. Take the 2,000 pagans who gathered in a field in Kansas, with whom we spent several days. About half the people we met were military, most of them lifers, and nearly all of them basically very square, wholesome, kind people. I think if most of those military pagans came to visit me in New York, they'd be terrified -- too weird, not enough barbecue. Or the "cowboy Christians" in Texas we write about. Cowboy Christianity is in fact a growing movement, but what it really represents is this idea of lifestyle Christianity, that you can shape your church to your particular interests, whether that's cowboys or Christian pop or extreme sports, all of which are increasingly common motifs.

We talked to a storm chaser who looks for hints of the divine within tornadoes because we wanted to understand the ways in which environmentalism literally becomes a religious belief system. We talked to gang bangers tattooing the Virgin Mary on themselves as protection against gunfire because -- well, because it was a great story. The fact is, those guys aren't freaks. They and their community in East L.A. consider them traditional Catholics. Each one of the stories we tell in the book reflects a very particular place and set of beliefs, often peculiar ones, but each story is also a reflection of much broader trends within American religion.

Now you're editing THE REVEALER, a Web review of religion and the press. What are you learning from your surveys of the media about coverage of religion in America?

That much of the media is not nearly as sophisticated about belief and religion as most people are. I'm not talking about specific knowledge of theology, although even there it's just amazing how ill-informed some major journalists are, but about the way belief works in the world. The media believe that labels tell the whole story. You say "Christian right" and you instantly know who you're talking about. But that's not true. George McVay, the cowboy preacher we met in Mt. Vernon, Texas, and Rev. Oliver Barnes, who led his Ft. Lauderdale Pentecostal congregation in a rousing gospel service to pray that a man gets the electric chair, are both self-described fundamentalists. As voters, they probably support the same man. But that's where the similarity ends. The media aren't interested in the differences. I don't believe that's because they are anti-religion, as some conservative critics would charge. Rather, it has to do with underlying assumptions about the world. Reporters look for common denominators, and most of the media operate on the assumption that politics is what matters most in people's lives. So they look for religious common denominators that can translate into political activity, which is like studying a giraffe by measuring its ears.

Do you have any stories to share about American religion from your research and travels that didn't make it into the final version of the book?

Holy dirt eaters and Hindu pickle collectors and the tall, beautiful, Caucasian Sikhs of New Mexico; the no-cross Christian fundamentalist "life domes" popping up like mushrooms across the country and the old Catholic churches being turned by immigrants into new Hindu temples; the Hasidic organic farm in Belchertown, Massachusetts, created to hasten the Messiah, and the militant pagan anarchists trying to erase a couple millennia of technology on compounds in the Northwest; the gay santeros of Miami beaming bad luck to Castro, and a sexy evangelical spy whose real name, we kid you not, was Molly Malone; the abandoned pulpit we found on the street in Chelsea and the funniest Reconstructionist rabbi in America, working with her Jewish Franciscan boyfriend to help restore the queen of Hawaii. And that's the stuff we weren't even looking for.

We're each working on our own books now, but fortunately we get another chance to do this kind of storytelling. We're working with a radio producer to make a show of stories we collected from our book tour; it'll air nationally on NPR in the fall. One of our favorites comes from a young guy named David Peters, whom we met when we gave a reading at Hampshire College, my alma mater, in Amherst, Massachusetts. For his senior thesis in anthropology, David was studying witch doctors and traditional magic. He'd spent months in Cameroon in Africa. One day this witch doctor says to him, "You came all the way to Africa to see miracles? You really ought to try Worcester, Massachusetts." Turns out the witch doctor's dream had been to go to Worcester to see the "living saint," Audrey Santo, a Catholic girl in a coma who is believed to be the cause of Eucharistic miracles, like bleeding holy images. The witch doctor says to this young guy David, "You should try that. You passed it by about 3,000 miles. Check your own backyard."

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