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PERSPECTIVES:
Pledge of Allegiance Supreme Court Ruling
June 18, 2004    Episode no. 742
Read This Week's November 7, 2008
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BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: The Supreme Court this week ruled that the phrase "under God" could remain in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. But it did so on technical grounds. The case had been brought by an atheist who shares custody of a daughter with the child's mother, who is a Christian and favors the "under God" words. The Court held that because of that dispute the father alone did not have the right to bring the suit.

A look at that decision, and how the Court sees church/state issues from legal correspondent Tim O'Brien, who joins us from Providence, Rhode Island.

Tim, welcome. Many commentators have suggested that the Court may have found the "under God" case too "hot to handle" in an election year. How do you see it?

Photo of TIM O'BRIEN TIM O'BRIEN (Contributing Correspondent, RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY): Well, the Court does handle a lot of hot cases in election years and other years. And they did have a plausible basis for getting out of this one. The fact is the mother and father of this child had never married. The mother had primary custody and she had claimed that not only did she not object to the words "under God," but that her daughter didn't either. So the Court held, in an opinion by Justice Stevens speaking for five justices, that in a situation like this the federal court should really "stay its hand." It should stay out of it. Not only did Dr. Newdow's, the father's interests not parallel those of his daughter's, but they may in fact have been in conflict with them. Better to leave this to the state courts and the family courts.

ABERNETHY: Yeah, but they didn't get at the Constitutional issue, really in the final decision. But that's something that's likely to come back, isn't it, and pretty soon?

Photo of people leaving the Supreme Court Mr. O'BRIEN: Well, it will probably come back. Newdow says he has friends who are fellow atheists who are ready to pick up the mantle tomorrow and pursue another case. But it takes a long time to bring a case to the Supreme Court. Certainly, if it ever gets there, it would be beyond this election. But there's a very good chance of that happening. A lot of people are suggesting, in fact, it's clear the Court did not answer the question on the merits. But there are suggestions, "tea leaves" that can be read, from what the Court did say. Three of the justices -- not a majority -- said they would have upheld the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, that they saw no Constitutional problem with that. The fourth justice, Antonin Scalia, took himself out of the case because he thought the lower court ruling was "off the wall, crazy." He said as much publicly. At the request of Dr. Newdow, he took himself out of the case. So, four of the nine justices already appear poised to uphold the words "under God."

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ABERNETHY: Earlier this term, in another case, the Court said a state can decide for itself whether or not to give scholarships to students preparing for the ministry. So what did that decision -- and the "under God" ruling -- and everything they've said, what did it all say about where the Court now puts the wall of separation between church and state?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Well, these two cases were different from most of the religion cases that have reached the Court over the past several years. The scholarship case was decided on a vote of seven to two. Depending on how you look at the Pledge case, it's either five to three, or really eight to nothing, to reverse the lower court. Most of these cases divide the justices five to four. They've become a little more sympathetic, a little more accommodating of supporting religious instruction. But when it comes to symbolic speech such as prayer in the schools, they've maintained the wall as high as ever.

Photo of Abernethy and O'Brien ABERNETHY: So, if there were a change in the Court, there could be a big change in church/state questions?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Bob, you couldn't be more right about that. Given the way this Court is divided, and also the fact that there hasn't been a change in the Court in 10 years, whoever is elected to President in November could possibly re-make the Court. And one or two votes could make a huge difference on a number of issues. But I could think of none where the change could be as dramatic as on separation of church and state. The Court has been in disarray over how to judge these questions. What tests should you use? When a novel question comes up, the Court seems to come up with a novel test to resolve that question. So another justice or two, and they might be able to agree on how to look at these cases.

ABERNETHY: Many thanks to legal correspondent Tim O'Brien.

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