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INTERVIEW:
Rev. Jean Benjamin Sleiman
August 6, 2004 Episode no. 749
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Read an edited version of RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY religion associate Nancy Glass's August 3, 2004 interview in Washington, DC with the Rev. Jean Benjamin Sleiman, Roman Catholic archbishop of Baghdad:
We have more than 50 [Christian] churches in Baghdad. [The August 1 bombings] didn't affect my own churches, but we have all been affected, even Muslims. All Iraqi society, civilian society has been affected. Everybody is fearing for the future from this blind violence.
We don't know exactly who did this, but generally this violence in Iraq is blind. Violence hurt many others before -- mosques, many places, many persons. I hope that this violence-politics will cease because, really, it isn't giving results.
Many people know that these tactics are to divide or maybe to increase the confusion. Iraq is now, still, anarchic, and every [act of] violence will increase anarchy, will increase the fear.
Generally, under Saddam the situation was peaceful. It doesn't mean that all things were well. Sure, there was freedom of worship, but it doesn't mean there was really freedom of opinion, of conscience, of real religious freedom. From time to time, in some cities there was also some violence. We cannot forget many things in Mosul and other cities -- even in Baghdad. But, generally, order was established, and this gave many communities [reason] not to be fearful for security. But after the war, freedom is total for everybody.
You were free to pray in your church, in your mosque. But if you don't want this kind of prayer, it wasn't possible to change [your] religion publicly. It wasn't easy to publish a book, to publish even a calendar. You can publish it, but you have to ask for permission. There are some conditions. For example, for calendars, where you have a quotation of the gospel, you must have a quotation of the president. So every day you have to read some quotations of the wisdom of the president with the gospel.
For me it was a kind of humiliation. You cannot really express yourself, even if your expression of yourself isn't dangerous for the regime or for others. You cannot do it, really, in this very limited freedom. ... There was a very deep frustration with the lack of freedom. A kind of fear, also. Even under Saddam, people were really dreaming of leaving Iraq, of emigrating. It means that something was wrong, also.
After the end of the war, really all Iraqis knew a very important freedom. But maybe they haven't been accustomed to real freedom, and the insecurity increases the incapacity to enjoy this freedom. We have freedom, but we have not the possibility to enjoy it, really.
What makes Christians vulnerable? First, they are minorities. And, also, their historic memory has been hurt in the past. Christianity knew many troubles, maybe some persecutions -- genocide in some parts of Iraq in the early thirties of the last century, for example. All this also increases fear and makes this community very frail and very sensitive to everything negative.
Fundamentalists have this conviction that they have to install Islamic law, and Islamic law has always forbidden alcoholic drinks and has imposed the veil. But maybe there are also other aims. I think the trade of alcohol is good in Iraq. Maybe by taking the place of Christians, some groups or individuals will do it themselves. The alcoholic trade in Iraq is flourishing, and it can be for religious reasons but also for economic reasons. Others can trade instead of Christians. Other groups or individuals can do this instead of Christians themselves.
Many Christians have been killed or threatened because they have been working with the Coalition Provisional Authority or as translators or drivers. This happened to many Christians, but it happened also for others, for Muslims.
For some fundamentalists, for some Muslims, the allied forces are Christians. Most of them are Christians, so a kind of association between Christians in Iraq and allied forces has been [made] and maybe is, still, by these violent groups especially. It can explain the bombings, but maybe there are other reasons also. Really, I don't know how they think -- their strategy, their tactics. Even if they think they are right, I think they are very, very wrong. They are destroying the most important opportunity in the history of Iraq to rebuild Iraq, and maybe more than rebuild Iraq materially -- to reconcile Iraqis with their own history, to heal Iraqis' own frustrations. ... It's important for them, really, to take this opportunity now to rebuild themselves, to give hope, self-trust, self-confidence. This is very important. But violence is destroying all this.
After the end of the war, the collapse of the regime, we stayed for about two or three months in a vacuum -- political vacuum, economic vacuum, security vacuum. This permitted groups or individuals to organize themselves, to profit from the occasion for their own affairs. And this vacuum damaged everybody, even the allied forces. And, as you know, there are more casualties in the after-war than in the war itself.
I don't remember exactly what Ali Sistani said, but as I read in the papers, he condemned the [August 1] bombings. For me, it isn't a surprise. He has been at all times against violence. Even if he has his own way of thinking, he didn't invite people to violence. And this is very important. This can help for the future. He is a very great [leader], responsible for the Shi'a. And I think morally he is respected by others. Immediately after the war he asked not to attack allied forces, and this is very important. I read in the newspaper that even young Moktada al-Sadr condemned the bombings. I hope he is sincere.
I think we don't have problems with [the new Iraqi] rulers. The government [is] doing well. This new constitution recognizes, for the first time in history, the freedom of conscience. This is a very important achievement. But at the same time you have contradictions in this constitution. The constitution also recognizes Islam as [an] important fountain of laws. It means that some laws for freedom cannot really be in accordance with some laws of sharia, so it can create some difficulties. But it's very important that in one of the Arabic countries you have freedom of conscience and also recognize human rights as law. This is very, very significant and very important, for sure.
Every society has its own culture, and religion belongs to this culture. It is important in Iraq to be religious. In the United States, things are different, but even if there is separation between church and state, there is a presence of religion in the life of everybody, I think. To belong to a community, it's important in the United States. ... What I think is damaging is to take religion as an instrument of the [presidential] campaign. Even Iraq is an instrument in this campaign, and maybe it will damage the truth of the achievements in Iraq.
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There are misunderstandings between Americans and Arabs in general, or between Americans and Iraqis, but I am sure that cultural dialogue is possible. If you try to understand others, and others try to understand you, you can meet. But some difficulties in international politics are making this dialogue difficult. In the Middle East you have other problems. The question of Israel and Palestinians is very important for everybody, and not to find peace makes things more difficult, even culturally. There are many important and deep differences, but it isn't impossible to overcome these difficulties and to have reciprocity in some way in this dialogue.
There are many [differences] ... even with the concept of God himself, the concept of the person, of freedom. Generally societies in the Middle East, especially Arab, Islamic societies, are more tribal anthropologically or ethnologically, so the person isn't evident. The group is more important than the person. ... This means there is a problem in considering a person as free, as having his own rights. It is necessary to belong to a group to have rights, or to be "good" with the ruler. Sometimes I had the feeling, and I was very sad, that the ruler was giving you your freedom. Sometimes we've been told that Saddam loved Christians and then [gave] them freedom, but freedom isn't a gift of a ruler, even if he thinks he is doing well. Freedom is a right. These kinds of differences are very important between cultures. I don't think it's the same for Americans. They spontaneously accept the person as something to respect, something to take care of.
Christians in Iraq now, really, are free, but there are difficulties to enjoy this freedom. After the war, the Ministry of Enrollment that used to control religions, churches, etc. has been changed, really changed. Now we have three councils for religion: one for Sunni, one for Shi'a, and another for Christians and other minorities. On this council are all representatives of every church and every minority, so officially this is something you can decide for yourself. It is very different than before. It means that really there is freedom of religion in Iraq, more than in the past. But this society isn't reconciled with itself. You have many fundamentalist groups, many frustrated individuals. They can damage, by their violence, many things.

Last Easter, and even the Christmas before, some of our Christians were very afraid. We really took some measures. The street where I have the cathedral was closed to cars during feasts or celebrations. The fear has been at all times present. But we did not imagine that churches can be targeted, because churches are not doing politics, are not fighting. They are only for prayers and for worship, and if there was some other thing that we have done, it was to give people [food] to eat. We have been distributing, especially after the war and even until now, help to people, so [there is] no reason to target churches. This is increasing confusion, increasing anarchy, increasing frustrations. Insurgents can achieve their own aims better if they integrate with the new force to rebuild Iraq.
The coming of many [Christian] preachers to Iraq after the war has also been creating some confusion. For Muslims, it was perceived like a provocation: "They are coming to convert us." Some preachers were very enthusiastic and said, "We come to convert you," so this has been very negative. For Christians, it was really confusing. If they come to convert, I think they are not doing well. They are increasing the divisions between Christians themselves. Churches in Iraq are very old, from apostolic times, so it means that Christians [do not need to be] converted. They are survivors of a very long, difficult history of Christianity in the Middle East. They are proud to be survivors of old churches. And if you profit from their poverty, maybe from their ignorance, because they have been isolated for many times from other countries, from culture in general, I think it isn't very respectful. If missionaries in Iraq want to help churches, they can do it through churches, not building other churches and increasing divisions. Maybe in the United States it's easier to have a new community; it's in the culture of the country. But if you have a new community in Iraq, it means -- in your church, in your confession -- separation. It means a new tribe.
To convert Muslims directly isn't realistic, and perhaps it isn't so evangelical. I think the best way to proclaim Christ in the Middle East -- especially in Iraq -- is to be a witness of Christ by living, by doing what many churches are doing to help people really show the love of God and his mercy for humanity. It means to be silent, to pray, and to act without visibility sometimes.
Maybe 100 meters from my own cathedral we have been surprised by a new church. Really, it was a house, a residence, but it has been changed to become a church. We found something growing very, very rapidly in a quarter [where] most of the inhabitants are Christians, and there are many churches. I think [some missionaries] came to Iraq as invaders also, and for some they have been associated with the soldiers. It isn't good for them, and some of them have also been killed. This is also regretful.
Usually [Christian-Muslim] relations are strong. People know each other, people do business with each other, they shop in the same place. People are encouraged not to provoke one another. Christians avoid provoking Muslims. They live together. More than that is difficult where there has never been interfaith dialogue in the deep sense of the word. But there is friendship: Muslims attend Christian weddings, Muslims attend Christian funerals. There are social relations. It used to exist, and it still does, but violence affects this and creates differences and fear among people. There is no Islamic law -- only groups with their own political agendas. These groups in the past used to threaten us, but now they actually do it.
Our prayer life is first personal prayer, and then public prayer. In our cathedral and other churches we have midday masses, especially on Sundays and feasts. We have many encounters for catechism and religious formation. We have some days also to give help -- to give people [food] to eat or sometimes also health care. Many hours are spent in receiving people and visiting. Liturgical prayer is scheduled every day, but you cannot schedule everything. Maybe prayer helps us to be ready to do things that we didn't schedule. ...
The most important thing, really, is to overcome violence. I think the government has begun to work seriously to control the violence, but it will take time. Maybe we will have other dramas, other bombings, other killings in the next months. This violence is a kind of illness.
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