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INTERVIEW:
Beverly Gaventa
December 17, 2004    Episode no. 816
Read This Week's July 25, 2008
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Read more of Kim Lawton's interview about Mary with Princeton Theological Seminary New Testament professor Beverly Roberts Gaventa:

Photo of Beverly Roberts Gaventa Protestants have traditionally brought Mary out with the crèche and put her away with the Christmas wrappings. We have tended to think of Mary as belonging primarily to Catholics and have been reluctant to talk about her. We've been more reluctant to talk about Mary than we have a good number of other biblical women.

I think a lot of it is reaction to some Roman Catholic teaching, some Orthodox teaching, a sort of fear that Mary was too elevated in some other traditions, and a little bit of concern that Mary was being regarded more highly than she ought to be regarded. But we've gone to the other extreme.

Even if some of the language that other Christian traditions use to talk about Mary is uncomfortable for us, we can still do what Protestants like to think we do well, which is stay with biblical stories and look at how she's treated there and pay close attention to those as characteristic of our own tradition. There's a lot there that we've neglected, I think, to our own detriment.

In Luke's Christmas story, which most of us know by heart, one of the important early scenes is of the annunciation to Mary. What strikes me about that story is that the first thing we learn about Mary is only her name. Really, Luke tells us nothing about her. He doesn't give us any credentials to make us think that Mary is worthy of being chosen by God. God has made a decision that Mary will be the mother of Jesus. Mary is chosen entirely by God's own initiative. This is a primary example of what Protestants emphasize as God's divine grace. In Luke's version of the story it has nothing to do with Mary's own virtue or Mary's own religiosity. Well, we've neglected that wonderful example of divine grace.

At the end of the story, Mary says, "Behold, the slave of the Lord." She takes on herself this very distinct title and becomes, in a sense, the first Christian disciple, the first disciple of Jesus. I think it's unfortunate that Protestants, of all people, have neglected to pay attention to the way in which Mary becomes an example of Christian service.

Another example would be in the Magnificat itself, the wonderful poem that Mary comes out with when she goes to visit her kinswoman, Elizabeth. The Magnificat really is an example of biblical prophecy. Mary takes on a very strong role there of declaring God's favor upon the poor and oppressed, and God's warning about the downfall of the mighty and the powerful and the wealthy. We have not given due regard to Mary as the one who utters those words.

One of the reasons I think some women in the Protestant churches have been drawn to Mary is their own sense of connection to her as a mother. But I also think that because we fear that Mary will only be identified as a mother, some Protestants have been a little reluctant about that. I tend to prefer to think of her myself as the leading disciple, the first of the disciples. But I think we also see her vulnerability as a mother -- the loss that she has, the risk that she has -- and a lot of Protestants, especially women, are drawn to that motif in the biblical texts. Some of them won't talk about it. They'll only talk about it when someone else has opened the conversation.

Protestants are generally uncomfortable with elevating any of the disciples over any other, and I probably would share that discomfort. There is a sense, though, in which Mary becomes the mother of disciples as we follow her story, and I don't think we should be reluctant to acknowledge that title for her. In that sense, we have a lot to share with Christians of other traditions that we haven't always acknowledged.

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I've come to a much greater appreciation of other traditions and their sense of closeness to Mary. And I think I've come to a much more integrated sense of her, my relationship to her as a mother, my sense of appreciation for her loss, her sacrifice, her fears. On a personal level, the scholarly work that I did on Mary helped me to integrate not only my scholarly work but my own motherhood and my faith -- in a way, brought things together that, for me, were rather separate. I've also come to appreciate the variety of Christian traditions about Mary. Even the ones that are still unusual to me, I appreciate the depth of conviction and the richness that shapes them.

When I first started working on [Mary], there was just a lot of silence. I would say, "I'm working on a book on Mary, if you want me to come and talk to your church about that, or meet with a group to talk about that." People would say, "Well, we're mostly Protestants here." In recent years, there's been a lot more interest, I think because we are a lot more interested now in biblical characters who are women. We've talked about all the others; it might be time to talk about Mary as well. I also think that because we are much more inclined these days to know about other traditions and to be interested in them, a number of Protestants have begun to ask questions about Mary, so there is a lot more interest than there was even five or ten years ago.

In the stories where Mary appears, she is deeply connected to primary motifs about the gospel. In Matthew's story, she's deeply connected to the threat that hangs over Jesus' life, the opposition to him even before he's born. In Luke's Gospel, she's deeply connected to the motif of God's favor for the outsider, the marginalized, the poor. In John's Gospel, she's connected to the abundant gift of Jesus' life. So even to understand fully what those Gospels are about, which is so much what Protestants prize, we have to pay more attention to her. We can't just bring her out for Christmas Eve and put her back away on December 26th.

Paul has very little to say about Mary. He only mentions the fact that Jesus was born of a woman, born in Israel. He doesn't ever mention her name. She appears nowhere else in the New Testament, but I think the reasons for that have to do primarily with the kind of writing that Paul is doing. He's writing letters to establish churches. He's not writing stories about Jesus. He says very little about any other figure in Jesus' life, so it's not unusual. I don't think we should take that to mean that Paul was somehow reluctant to talk about Mary, or that Paul didn't know anything about Mary. It's simply a feature of the kind of writing that he's doing.

In the second century already there is enormous interest in Mary. A lot of it, I think, is in response to certain kinds of things that are being said about Jesus and the need to defend. But there's interest in Mary in her own right that comes very early into the Church's life and has been there ever since.

Mary is chosen by God for God's own reasons. None of us knows what God will call us to do, where we will be led. It doesn't have a lot to do with our own deserving or our own merit. It has a great deal to do with God's own plan for us. She is a great example of the doctrine of vocation.

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