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INTERVIEW:
Dr. Harold Koenig
July 1, 2005    Episode no. 844
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Read more of Bob Abernethy's interview about religion and health with Dr. Harold Koenig:

Photo of Dr. Harold Koenig The research on the relationship between religion and mental health has really exploded since the year 2000. Between 1980 and 1982, there were about 101 articles published in the literature. In the past two and a half years, there have been over 1,800 articles written -- research studies, discussions on the topic of religion and health. Comparing the three-year periods 20 years apart, there has been, literally, an 18-fold increase in the amount of attention this subject is being paid. The reason for the big increase is because the research has reached a critical mass of information such that now it's getting other scientists interested in the associations.

Religion is a very powerful coping behavior, and it looks like religious beliefs and practices do seem to facilitate coping with major life circumstances, so that people who are more religious have greater well-being, lower anxiety, more purpose and meaning in life, more positive emotions. They experience less depression, less anxiety, less substance abuse. As a result, they turn out to be healthier. These mental health benefits have physical health consequences, so that religious people tend to have lower blood pressure, tend to have stronger immune systems and oftentimes will live longer, will have greater life spans than people who are less involved in religious practices.

Most of this research has been cross-sectional, which does mean that what is being established, largely, is an association. However, about 10 percent of this vast amount of research has been prospective, longitudinal, taking a time component into the research design, which means that you can actually predict ahead of time the mental health or the physical health of a person based on their religious beliefs and practices at an earlier time point, which suggests that there may be a causal relationship. In the mental health area, there have actually been clinical trials where people have been randomized to either get a religious mental health intervention or not get that intervention. And those getting the intervention do seem to recover more quickly from the depression or the anxiety. Those clinical trials buttress the findings from the cross-sectional and prospective studies.

We're close to proving [that religious involvement results in better health] because of the randomized clinical trials in the mental health area. That doesn't mean for physical health. In physical health, we don't have the randomized clinical trials that prove that religion results in better health. But other research suggests [that] that, indeed, may be the case.

Twenty years ago, I was a family physician in the Midwest. I was taking care of older adults who were rehabilitating from surgery, from various severe illnesses. At that time, I was interested in how people were coping with their illnesses. I had been a nurse prior to that, and as a nurse, we were interested in how patients were emotionally dealing with their situations. I would ask patients, "What enables you to cope?" And many times they would talk about their religious faith. They would talk about prayer or about God, about their congregation and how important that was in supporting them. And yet as a medical doctor and as a nurse, I had received absolutely no training or exposure to the potential benefits of the person's religious faith. That got me into how we can systematically study this area to demonstrate that there really is a benefit to these religious practices.

I was raised a Catholic and fell away from the Church when I was in high school and college and medical school. There's just no time, really, to devote to it. It was not until I was in my midlife years, as I started to deal with various tragedies in my own life, including a divorce and health problems, emotional problems, that my faith began to come back, because I saw what a benefit it was, at least in my own life. Right about that same time, I was beginning to study the relationships and discovering also that this was not just my own personal experiences, but other people were having these experiences as well.

Every scientist has a hypothesis and, in many respects, is biased toward that hypothesis. I'm not different. As a person of faith who has experienced himself the benefits of faith, my hypothesis is that this has benefits for other people, and I want to test that hypothesis. But as a good scientist, I have to design my studies in a way so that my own personal biases don't enter into that research. All scientists have biases. The good scientists design the research in a way and analyze it such that their biases don't enter into that scientific work.

There's not a lot of criticism, I think, from, particularly, people who are taking care of patients, doctors who are actually dealing with people struggling with medical and psychiatric illness. But there is one source of criticism from one group at Columbia University that feels that the research is weak and inconsistent. It is interesting that, given the growth of this field, there are not more critics. That is what shocks me in some respects -- that the criticism tends to be from people who are, clearly, oriented toward criticizing the area. It's not a general phenomenon. Most doctors realize, if they're taking care of suffering older people and pain, that faith makes a difference. It's hard to criticize, and the research that's coming out -- there's so much of it.

Studies show that doctors are somewhat less religious than the general population, but not that much less religious. Doctors in general tend to have beliefs and practices just like everybody else, and many times those are religious in nature. But they tend not to allow their own personal beliefs into their work; those two areas have been so separate. We've been trained to separate our personal beliefs and practices from our professional work. Most doctors keep them separate and don't really utilize those beliefs as part of their care for patients, when the patient may have the same beliefs acting as a resource.

Doctors are scientists, and they can't ignore the research that's coming out, because that's science just like the science that they're trained with. I think there's a growing openness within the medical profession to consider valuing the role that religion and spirituality play. Many doctors don't know what to do with that. But I think there's a growing value -- 85 percent of doctors indicate, even in skeptical studies, that faith seems to play a role in people's health. They believe that it makes a difference in the person's life. Again, they don't know what to do with that information.

You cannot prove, in my opinion, anything about God, or that God answers prayer, or anything that's supernatural. I think that's outside the natural tools of science that we have at our disposal. What we can show, though, is what impact does believing in God, going to church, reading the Bible, going to synagogue, mosque -- what impact do those beliefs and practices have on a person's mental and physical health? That we can study.

A healthy lifestyle is part of the effect, and that's very important. Why are [people] living a healthy lifestyle? A lot of that has to do with the beliefs. Why are they not smoking? Why are they not drinking? Why are they not having sex outside of marriage? It's because the preacher is preaching that you need to respect your body, you need to be faithful to your wife and family. That's part of the religious effect. It's not the entire effect, because we know that psychological and social factors also play a role. But health behaviors are a big part of that effect, and we try to control for that in our analyses to try to explain how religion affects health.

Having faith and being optimistic can definitely influence one's outcome. However, what this research shows is that having faith specifically in religion helps people more than having faith in other things. That's what we're studying. We're comparing people with faith in religion versus faith in family or work or hobbies, and the religious people seem to do better.

If you lived a healthy lifestyle, if you had a strong family and lots of friends, if you had a belief system that helped you cope with death and life and suffering and religion had no part of it, you'd have the same health benefits. The problem is, most people aren't in that situation. Most people don't have a worldview that makes sense of death and suffering and loss, don't have a ton of friends that are supportive or a family that encourages and supports them, and don't live a healthy lifestyle because they're simply human and are pulled to these various kinds of temptations that affect our health. So religion is a package of things that brings together all of those different areas in a person's life.

Religion is very personal in the lives of patients. However, 20 years ago doctors were skeptical and squeamish about asking about sexual histories, asking about sexual lifestyles and partners. We today don't hesitate to take a sexual history because we know it's connected with the person's health. The same thing [is true] with religion. I think right now, sure, doctors are uneasy about it and don't want to ask and aren't sure why they should ask, but the research is showing that it's connected with health and medical decision making and these kinds of things that affect the person's health.

We're not recommending that people get religion to get healthier. We don't even know, if people pursue religion for health reasons alone, whether that has a health benefit. What we are showing is that people who are already religious have health benefits. And we're presuming that they're religious not for health reasons but for other, more valid reasons.

We did a study just two years ago demonstrating that people who are angry at God, who feel that God doesn't love them [and] is punishing them with their illness -- they die more quickly over time, even independent of their physical health or social support or mental health. We don't know how that effect really works, in fact. But we do know that religious struggles can impact physical health and affect mortality ratios, and that study's published in the ARCHIVES OF INTERNAL MEDICINE. There [were] 450 people followed for a two-year period after discharge. That's a Duke study, [and] actually in that particular study people who were feeling angry at God and deserted by God weren't the religious people. These are the people who talk with God when things are going bad and ignore God when things are good, and the only time they have a conversation with him is when they're mad at him.

There is a lot of research that's coming out suggesting that religion is related to better mental health and better physical health. We are still early in this research field. We cannot really say anything absolutely definitively. However, there's enough evidence thus far to suggest that doctors need to begin to communicate with patients about these issues in a sensitive way, and I think that's what needs to be done. You cannot say that it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that religion makes you healthy; that's correct, but where there is a lot of smoke, there's probably some fire.

I have occasionally prayed with my patients; I don't do it as a routine. These are patients that I've known for many years and that I have a relationship with and that I know a little bit about their spiritual background, and I have prayed with patients in that circumstance. The impact that has on a patient sometimes is greater than anything else that I've done, any medication that I've prescribed, any psychotherapy I've done. Saying a prayer for a person, with a person who is under real distress -- the doctor saying the prayer just makes a huge difference to patients. I don't know why, but it just does.

In medicine we are dealing with things that are spiritual, whether we acknowledge it or not. You are talking about people's lives that are potentially becoming disabled, losing their jobs, affecting their families, dealing with death and disability and suffering.

Those are spiritual areas. And patients almost naturally understand that their medical care is in some way connected to the spiritual part of their being. When the doctor addresses both, I think that just fills a real need that some patients have.

I believe that all doctors should be open to praying with their patients if the patient wants the doctor to do that. However, I don't think a doctor should be forced to do that. I think it's a personal decision on the doctor's part on whether to pray with the patient, even if the patient asks.

A theological problem needs to be addressed from a theological perspective, such as a chaplain or a pastoral counselor who can help a person deal with feeling their faith isn't strong enough. There's also the issue, I think, that many of us want to get better to such a point that our health eventually becomes our god, and that we use God in order to achieve what we really want, which is our god, which is health. The first commandment is "Thou shall have no gods before me," and that includes health. Healing may not be physical healing. Healing may be social, may be emotional; it may be spiritual. God may decide we need that more than we need the physical healing. Great faith oftentimes doesn't develop until people get sick and suffer and are forced out of themselves, so you can never conclude that a person is sick because of a weak faith.

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I have been struggling with arthritis since my late 20s, almost 30 years now, and it's been a challenge. It affects my life in many different ways. It affects my family life. I have young children. They want to play, they want to wrestle. I have trouble doing that. It affects my social relationships. Sometimes [it is] difficult for me to shake hands if my wrists are flared up, and I can't participate even in the church relationships as much because, again, I have trouble standing for any period of time, and social relationships are based upon, you know, people standing and talking.

It affects my sleep at night, having chronic pain -- makes it difficult. I have to move around. I have to move out of the bedroom into a different place in the middle of the night because of the pain. It affects many areas of my life. It affects my traveling, my concentration. However, over the years, as I've talked to patients (and, of course, my own research has influenced me as well), [it] has made me realize that even with these physical health problems, my life can have purpose and meaning. I think it gives me an insight as I take care of people who have similar problems and who are struggling with them. I think it gives me an insight and a credibility and an authority to be able to speak into their lives and to help them where they are.

Most doctors haven't been trained on how to address these issues. Many of them may have personal beliefs that they don't want to impose on patients, and a lot of them don't have the extra amount of time to be able to deal with these issues. So doctors are somewhat conflicted about whether they should even get into it. It's better to just avoid it, and that's what 95 percent of doctors today are currently doing -- avoiding this area. The problem is, though, that if there is an important area that affects our health and our medical decisions and just even compliance with medical care, then doctors need to be trained about these issues and trained to communicate with patients in a sensitive, sensible way about the person's religious beliefs, if there are any, and the effects it may have on their health.

There's definitely something wrong with the system right now that is encouraging doctors to rush through patients and spend very little time with them in order to see the mass numbers that need to be seen. There are some practical issues, too. It does make sense that doctors can't be taking all day long seeing their patients. However, taking a brief spiritual history takes about two minutes. And we're not encouraging doctors to do it on every patient. We're encouraging them to do it on patients when they're admitted to the hospital, or on those patients with chronic illness, or patients they have a little bit more time with, where they're exploring social factors that might influence the patient's health. [It] may not take that much time at all.

It is amazing that many doctors who do this don't find that they're all that far behind on their patients. I don't know whether this is the fishes-and-the-loaves deal or not, but it just kind of works out a lot of times.

What I'm suggesting is that doctors take a brief spiritual history, no more than a couple of minutes, and find out what role religion plays in the patient's coping with illness, in their medical decision making, and what kind of support their faith community might give them, and if there are any spiritual needs that someone ought to address. The doctor should then take that information and ensure that those spiritual needs, if present, are met by someone else, not the doctor, because the doctor doesn't have any training on how to address those spiritual needs. When we find out that a patient has a heart problem, we refer them oftentimes to a cardiologist. In the same way, we suggest that if there's a spiritual issue present, the doctor refer it to a spiritual care expert such as the chaplain or the pastoral counselor.

I think the doctor should be sure that those spiritual needs are met. Just like we have bad doctors and bad nurses, we have bad pastoral counselors and bad chaplains as well. So the doctor should follow up a little on that, because whether or not those spiritual needs are met may impact that patient's health.

What should the doctor not do? The doctor should not prescribe religion to nonreligious patients. The doctor should not force a spiritual history on someone who is uncomfortable talking about these issues. The doctor should not try to take on spiritual needs of patients that they're not trained to do, and the doctor should not argue with patients about the patient's religious beliefs, even if they conflict with medical care and what the doctor feels would be in the best interest of the patient. The doctor needs to respect those beliefs, value them for the role they play in that patient's health, and try to work with patients and their beliefs. Doctors should not prescribe religion, should not proselytize. Most patients in this country are already religious. You don't need to introduce religion to these patients; they are already struggling with these issues.

I'm a little bit hesitant to make recommendations about people becoming more religious in order to be healthier, simply because I think genuine religious faith is associated with health benefits. Genuine religious faith is not a faith that is based on seeking health. It's a faith based on seeking a relationship with God; [that is] primary in the person's motivation. A side effect of that is better health. It's hard for me to tell people to go to church or to become religious. What I can say is "Keep an open mind." But for years and years, scientists have been telling us that religion was neurotic, was something that only weak people depended on, was something that was just a conflict with medical care. But that's just not true in all cases. In some cases, that is true. But in the vast majority of cases, people who are religious do tend to be healthier. But, again, they're healthier because it's the frosting on the cake, not the cake.

Research shows that people who are part of a faith community and who have strong religious beliefs are healthier, but to say that people who are not religious should become religious in order to be healthier -- I can't do that.

Many people have different understandings of God. In fact, probably every person has a little different understanding of God than the next person, even if they're part of the same congregation or the same religious belief system. It does make a difference -- how we understand God. There is very little research, and this is my personal opinion, but I think that people who believe that God is a loving God, that God is interested in people, that God responds to our needs and can identify with our needs -- they will have perhaps better mental health if they have that kind of understanding. That's in this culture, which is a Judeo-Christian culture. In the Eastern cultures, understandings of God are different. In this culture, people who believe in a loving, merciful, compassionate God who is present with us and who helps us bear our burdens -- that is probably healthier than people who believe in a punishing God, a vengeful God, a judgmental God. While all of those may be aspects of God, including the judgmental part, people who believe we have a loving God -- certainly those beliefs would [lead to] better health. In a Buddhist culture, in the Hindu culture -- that influences beliefs in ways that we don't really understand.

You cannot tell patients to go out and get religion, like you should stop smoking and exercise more and lose weight. Doctors can't do that because that is a very personal area of the person's life and because there are no clinical trials that take people who are not religious and tell them to become religious and show that those people eventually end up healthier.

Much of the research has been done among people in later life. However, there are many studies today that seem to show that these health benefits or health associations are also present among younger people. However, it's harder to show among younger people because when you're young, when you're healthy, when you're successful -- why do you need God? You don't really need God when everything else in your life is going well. Where we can show the benefits of religion is in stressed populations who are struggling with problems. The reason, again, goes back to the fact that religion is a powerful coping behavior. When you don't have that much to cope with, you can't show much of an effect.

My physical problems -- I don't have much control over that. As someone who has been in control of his life a lot, it's hard on me. It's been hard realizing that I can't control this problem; this is out of my control. It's forced me to realize that God is in control of these problems that I have, and because of my relationship with God, and really because of my love for God, I think it's okay that I'm not in control, because I trust that God is in control, and God will take care of things. Whether I'm in pain or whether this gets worse, it'll be okay because it's all part of God's plan for me and my life. It gives my life a sense of meaning and purpose, just knowing that I don't have to know all the answers right now, that there's someone greater than I who has the whole scope of things under control and who is going to give me the strength each step of the way to cope.

As a Christian, I look at Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus was praying to the Father and prayed that he would not have to go on the cross, that this cup would pass, but said, "Thy will be done." And I think, for me at least, that's kind of my prayer, too. My prayer is that God would heal me miraculously, completely, so that I could run and play with my kids and sleep at night; but "Thy will be done" -- that sense of humility that I don't know everything. I don't know the future after death. I'm only seeing a very tiny slice of reality right now, and I don't really know what's best for me. My prayer is that I would be healed, and I think it is okay to pray that you will be healed and that you will be completely recovered. I think that's okay. But also understand that God knows more and God loves us and wants our best, and trust in God and God's will.

When we pray for health and healing, particularly when we pray for other people's health and healing, I think that does us good. To focus so much on ourselves I don't think is a good thing. When your focus is outside of yourself, God takes care of you. When you're focused on others and their needs, God takes care of you.

I would like to be able to discover the mechanism -- how religious belief and practice influence a person's health, in particular the effects that being involved in a faith community has on health. Of all of the research that's been done, the strongest predictor of mental health and physical health is frequency of church attendance, or mosque or synagogue attendance. It's consistently the most powerful predictor of health, and we really don't know why that is the case yet. We don't know the mechanism. It goes beyond just the social environment. It has to do with a common belief system, people praying together, people worshipping together, people singing together, that influences us physiologically and psychologically. We don't understand how that faith and that faith community influence health. I would love to be able to explore that and understand that better.

Ninety-six percent of the population believes in God. If you look at scientists, you find that 40 percent believe in God. And if you take the best scientists, those who are members of the National Academy of Sciences, 4 percent believe in God. It's the exact opposite of the population: 96 percent [of the scientists] do not believe in God, [while] 96 percent of the population does believe in God. Now, these are mathematicians, physicists, biologists, etc. They're not doctors. Doctors tend to be closer to the general population.

Duke invited all of the deans for the major research universities -- Harvard, Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic, Stanford, Yale, the deans of the medical schools, the top deans -- and we had a discussion about religion, spirituality, and medicine. It was a special part of the program. Most of that did tend to focus on the conflicts between religion, spirituality, and medicine. But, still, for that to occur means that this is heading into the mainstream of the top universities and training institutions.

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