BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: A conversation now about the ethics of the Israeli-Hezbollah war. What does the Jewish tradition say about what's happening? And what does Islam say? With me are two professors -- one Jewish, one Muslim -- who are friends and who serve together in a group seeking better Jewish-Muslim relations. Peter Ochs teaches Judaic studies at the University of Virginia, and Mehdi Aminrazavi is a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Mary Washington, also in Virginia.

Welcome to you both. Peter, let me begin with you. In the Jewish tradition, what are the rules -- the moral rules -- about what is happening, how it began and how it's being fought?

Dr. PETER OCHS (Professor of Modern Judaic Studies, University of Virginia): Bob, this is a terrible and tragic event, the last few weeks, and there will be no clear, good side on this. We should point out that Israel is a secular state. Lebanon is a secular state. The laws governing these events are secular. So the question what do religious ethics mean for religious Jews, Muslims, and Christians who live in Israel? What are their standards? I think the standard is to be ethical, is to serve God -- the God of Abraham, which all three people serve. And to act ethically is to protect the image of God in others. The Jewish position on the war is if someone is seeking to destroy the image of God, that is, to murder, we must stop that person from doing that. And that's called self-defensive war.

ABERNETHY: Mehdi, how about in Islam?

Dr. MEHDI AMINRAZAVI: (Professor of Philosophy and Religion, University of Mary Washington): That's an identical position in Islam. Muslims are allowed to resist in two cases: when it is an act of self defense, and when it is in defense of the community, "ummah." And ironically, perhaps, the Hezbollah feels that they're doing exactly that.

ABERNETHY: Well, how do you justify -- so that's the justification of the raid into Israel?

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: They don't see it as a separate incident. They see it as a continuous struggle for survival. We can't separate these as this raid as opposed to that raid.

ABERNETHY: Now in both traditions, then, killing unarmed civilians in war would be forbidden, right?

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Absolutely.

ABERNETHY: And yet that is going on now on both sides. Peter, how does Judaism justify all the civilian casualties, as you go after Hezbollah?

Dr. OCHS: Once again, when Jewish ethics faces such horrible issues we can't expect to come out with a position that says saintly behavior/evil behavior. In between the two is the case of what's called "lifeboat ethics." In this case, where both options are bad, which one do we choose? And the one chosen in this case is should a murderer, God forbid, hold a hostage and fire at one of us, he's trying to destroy the image of God in us. It's the hostage's obligation to interrupt that behavior. And tragically, if the hostage fails, the one pointed at has the right to defend himself.

ABERNETHY: And in Islam, Mehdi, how do you justify lobbing rockets into IsraelÖ

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Well, PalestiniansÖ

ABERNETHY: Öwith all the, let me say, with lots of civilian casualties?

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. They, again, they see it as part of self-defense, just as various Israeli incursions for the last half a century has left hundreds and hundreds of so-called collateral damage, even though they have precision-guided bombs. Palestinians fight with what they have, which are essentially very unprecise weapons.

Dr. OCHS: But you and I aren't defending that, are we?

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: No, no, no.

Dr. OCHS: We're religious thinkersÖ

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: No, no. Absolutely. Right, right.

Dr. OCHS: We understand the religious basis for self-defense.

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Right, right.

Dr. OCHS: We don't necessarily attack our brethren verbally...

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Sure.

Dr. OCHS: ...for being unethical.

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Sure.

Dr. OCHS: But I assume you and I are profoundly troubled...

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Oh, absolutely.

Dr. OCHS: ...by the collateral damage.

Dr. AMINRAZAVI: Absolutely, absolutely. It's unconscionable to have that. We simply must not. But the real point is, at the heart of it this is not a religious war. And so the behavior of either side is not in accordance to the principles of Judaism and Islam.

This is a war, despite what seems to be the case on the surface, about what most wars are about. It's about land. It's about property.