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Jamie Rubin:
But is that going to be effected if there's a treaty that we've signed? Will it be more likely that in that local district with all of the problems that have caused this problem, that this international treaty is going to change things in the United States?
Carol Bellamy:
It adds additional encouragement. It adds an additional weapon, if you will, in the arsenal of advocacy to the national government. No, I don't think that the Convention on the Rights of the Child will make the sun shine brighter in the United States tomorrow, but it is another opportunity for those advocates for really greater equity among children, in this country, as in other countries, to use.
Jamie Rubin:
And where would it make a difference? Explain why you think if the United States signed this convention, or ratified it rather, that it would help our advocacy for children in other countries or would it just remove something from the list?
Carol Bellamy:
Well, because it's gone on so long, and the US has not ratified it. I think it is interesting to note that while, and you know this well too, the rest of the world looks at what the US does, even if the US is kind of going on its own it's very much guided by the US. So I'm at least pleased to report that it doesn't seem to have taken the air out of the Convention on the Rights of the Child in other countries in the world.
Jamie Rubin:
The Johannesburg summit deals with environmental impact on children. Tell us a little bit about how UNICEF helps deal with these environmental issues.
Carol Bellamy:
Well, if you think about it children are just that. They're still developing, they're still growing, and so they are very much a reflection of what the environment is like. Their bodies are still developing, their immune systems are not fully developed, and so if you are confronting significant environmental challenges, and that can be everything from lack of access to clean water or decent sanitation, air pollution, in richer countries lead paint, it gets reflected very much in children, not only, but certainly it's reflected there. So, for us, environmental issues, whether we categorize them as simply environmental or health issues or more broadly, they're very key issues. I think what Rio showed us was the connection of environment to human development, not just whether you have a good ocean, or flying birds, all of which are important, but that it's totally related to human beings.
Jamie Rubin:
When you set a goal about clean water, or safe sanitation for children in schools, how do you go about implementing such a goal? What will you, as the head of UNICEF do, to make sure that happens?
Carol Bellamy:
Well, I'll give you an example actually. A couple years before the Rio summit in 1992, in 1990 there was the World Summit for Children. Among others, it was a goal to say, of the three million people who die every year from diarrhea related effects, and diarrhea basically comes from bad water, you get diarrhea and get dehydrated and die, the goal was to reduce that by a half. And so, countries supposedly left from that meeting, that wasn't the only goal, there were 27 goals, but that was one of them. How do you monitor? Well in the case of UNICEF, at least when it comes to children, we have over the last decade, working with governments, working with others, every year in conjunction with the government and others, we take a look at what the data shows in a particular country, are they achieving their goals, are they not.
Jamie Rubin:
So a kind of name and shame report?
Carol Bellamy:
Well, yes, it's partly name and shame, it's more peer pressure. It's to say that okay, you say you're poor, and you can't do very much, but here's another poor country that has done better. So it isn't ranking in saying this country's better than that, it's where all of the countries are. So in fact one of the successes actually over the last ten years is that 50% reduction of diarrhea-related diseases was achieved over the ten years. On the other hand, it's estimated that there is still over a billion people in the world who don't have access to clean, potable, drinkable water, and almost three billion, that's almost half of the public that exists in the world, that have bad sanitation. So, so some goals have been achieved, but others have not.
Jamie Rubin:
Let's talk a little bit about disease. Some experts in this area have suggested that if the United States were to increase the size of its budget and other industrialized countries as well, that one really could eradicate many of the diseases that still affect the developing world. UNICEF is in the vaccination business, when you look out there, do you believe that with more money we really could save millions of people's lives?
Carol Bellamy:
Well, I think money is part of it. But it isn't only money. I think sometimes people think, well if you just throw huge amounts of money. Quite frankly, the world is on the brink of eradicating another disease, one has been eradicated, small pox, the next one's going to be polio. And this makes an argument for investing money, because it's made a difference. Ten years ago in 1990, or actually about 11 years ago, there were about 120 countries where polio still existed. By 1999, there were 33 countries, by the year 2000 there were 20 countries, by the year 2001, there were about 15 countries. Each year, because of massive polio immunization campaigns, the numbers have gone down, and polio is likely over the next couple years, to be eliminated. Now, it is clearly costs money. But it isn't billions and billions and billions of dollars. And in fact, every year, the US and Western Europe have to spend close to a half a billion US dollars just to keep their population immunized, because they want to keep it clean while the rest of the work is going on. So sometimes the investing of the money, if it achieves its goal…
Jamie Rubin:
So in the long term we could save money?
Carol Bellamy:
It will allow you to save money. Now that doesn't happen in all cases, so yes, more money is needed, but it's targeting the use of that money to try and achieve specific kinds of goals.
Jamie Rubin:
So what would be some of these diseases that would be next on our list after polio?
Carol Bellamy:
Well, there clearly are things that are vaccine preventable. I mean, there are still eleven million children dying every year from totally preventable causes. That might be measles, that might be again, still diarrhea, a million and a half kids still die from diarrhea, even though that goal was reached, it may be other kinds of things that can at least improve the situation. For example, there is factual evidence that if a girl gets a basic education, that's basically five to nine years, we're not talking about university, when she grows to be an adult, she will be more healthy and there is a direct correlation between the fact that her children are less likely to die before the age of five. So investing so that girls and boys both get an education is something we know works. It requires the investment, but again I would argue, yes, more money is needed, but it really has to be targeted to the investments that work.
Jamie Rubin:
Let's talk a little bit about enforcement. You have these goals, you put out this name and shame report, but in the end, there is no enforcement of these goals, is there?
Carol Bellamy:
In large measure, there isn't. It really is a matter of leadership, and that's why I say again, I think we probably have plenty of action plans out there. We have a lot of goals, I don't think the world needs a whole new book of new objectives and new goals, there are plenty out there for the year 2010, and 2015, what's needed is leadership, and, certainly starting with government leadership. Now, I would suggest, for example, some possible glimmerings of hope. This coming together of some of the African leaders around the new partnership, the NEPAD as they call it, the jury is still out, but it is actually African leaders taking their own initiative. We see similar kinds of activities coming in sub-regions, for example, some of the Asian countries. So what there really has to be is leadership at the local level, by governments, by the private sector, and others, because you're never going to get penalties, you really need to have the initiative taken. Secondly, I think it's very important, and I think that this is something that has happened over the ten years since Rio, the growth of Non-governmental organizations and other civil society organizations. They at least are much more vital today, and in many cases they are starting to put much more pressure and holding government leaders accountable.
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Carol Bellamy, Executive Director of UNICEF
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