Daljit Dhaliwal:
Which brings us back to the whole problem of corruption, which President Fox has not dented.
Enrique Krauze:
Yes. He talks much about that in the film two or three times. We now have an agency in the government that is overseeing cases of corruption, not only in the past, but now. I mean you can trust that the administration is an honest administration. That is perceived by Mexicans. And I think it is true. All in all, it is an honest administration. And that is important, because Mexican people think, and rightly so, I would say, that the president and the people that are working with him have good intentions and are honest. But below, we have a huge problem. And the problem, it has to do also with the independence, the true independence of the judiciary system in Mexico. The judiciary branch, one of the three main branches of government, has in Mexico been traditionally completely dependent on the executive. Unlike any real democratic government. We need to strengthen the judiciary system.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
What impact has NAFTA had so far on Mexico?
Enrique Krauze:
A very positive one. Mexico, first of all, has always been an inward looking country. Obsessed with its past, and with its own identity -- looking always towards itself. Sometimes, looking towards Europe, to balance a little our conflictive relationship with the United States. Since NAFTA, for the first time, Mexicans started to look towards the north. And began putting up old resentments, old nationalistic ideologies, to try to be more compatible with its neighbor, and not only a neighbor, and partner. So there's a huge cultural change, looking northwards. Starting to think that yes, it is possible to become a more modern country.
It's already happened in the northern states of Mexico, which are much more modern. But it's slowly coming down South. People are thinking that this relationship could be a benign one. So there's a cultural change. But then of course economics have changed, too, in some dramatic and positive aspects. Mexico 20 years ago was a country dependent on its oil. Then it had a vast public sector. In these two instances, we witnessed wonderful changes. First of all, it is a country that has a thriving export economy. We thought we couldn't export but now, we are exporting many things. So there you have a great change.
I'll tell you an anecdote. The Mexican people didn't know because of the control of the media that there was such a thing as a political debate. The PRI lost their grip in the beginning of the 90s because of NAFTA and we had the debates for the presidency of the United States televised in Mexico. So, many Mexicans started to ask themselves the natural question, why exactly is it that they have that and we don't have that? We started having debates. So there you have an effect, a positive effect. So I think it's been great, that it has helped to change the Mexican mentality, to change the economy, and to change politics.
You can say even that a new country is being born, the birth of a new nation along the border, no? A Mexican-American nation. So I think I there are huge culture changes that have been undergoing, and there is compatibility in these two cultures. And there's a great opportunity there, because the tide now is in favor for convergence. But it can change.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
Has the United States helped the development of democracy in Mexico?
Enrique Krauze:
Well, I'm sorry to say that in the indirect sense of having signed the agreement with Mexico, it has helped. And of course, you can't forget that the US paid for a huge bail-out after the crash of 1994 in Mexico. We perceive that there is a positive change towards Mexico after NAFTA. But much remains to be done on your side. And much remains to be done on our side. But the United States has not helped in any direct sense. Because we must remember that during the whole history of Latin America that the United States has been a very insensitive, to say it politely, very insensitive to the democratic process.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
You mean supporting dictators?
Enrique Krauze:
Yes, and didn't even care to think that there were many liberal democrats in those countries that shared the main democratic liberal values of the United States, and they felt betrayed.
Americans have been very skillful in exporting many features of the American way of life. For instance, take baseball, as a strange example. It is played as a sport in northern Mexico, in the Pacific, and in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the national sport of Cuba, of Puerto Rico, of Cuba, of Nicaragua. Many places that at the same time harbor a strong and old resentment to the United States. On one hand, they love many things of the United States. So it's an ambiguous attitude. They love it. Baseball is a wonderful example, because now it is the real cultural melting pot. You have players from all over those countries playing here, playing wonderfully along with the Americans. But there is one item, one historical item in American history, which is more important than baseball, which they have not taken serious: that is democracy. Perfectly exportable, because it's common sense. I mean the majority should rule. There are values that are universal. The great contradiction is that the home of democracy has been backing dictators in the 20th century and behaving with not much sensitivity.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
But that is a failure then of U.S. foreign policy rather than the American people.
Enrique Krauze:
Yes, you're right. I'm not talking about blame.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
President Fox has spent a lot of time in the United States since his election. In fact has been to California something like eight times. He also campaigned here. Why?
Enrique Krauze:
I would say that he thinks the electoral future of his party has as much to do with the way the Mexican population in the United States think he's performing. He believes and behaves like he is being a president, not only of the Mexicans within Mexico, but also the Mexicans outside the borders.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
President Fox has moved away from that close relationship he once had with Cuba, with Fidel Castro. Why?
Enrique Krauze:
That was also a momentous decision that should be taken in account, which is this: Mexico had a very peculiar relation with Cuba. Cuba exported its revolution almost everywhere but Mexico, because Mexico supported it to a certain extent. The deal was Castro did not export revolution to Mexico. That was the deal. Now after NAFTA, after the fall of the Iron Curtain, after the demise of Communism and in this new era, Mexico understood that the deal was a deal of the PRI and that Mexico has little to gain today. And what's more important, human rights were beginning to be an important issue in Mexican diplomacy. That is also a good point in the Cambio. We now have an active foreign policy, that is dynamic and creative.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
What do you think that Americans and Mexicans need to know about each other?
Enrique Krauze:
Americans need to understand that on the other side of the Rio Grande lies a very complex, interesting, and profound culture, a country which is many countries. Not only for visiting as tourists, although tourists are welcome, but also because it's a very important commercial partner. It is struggling to consolidate it's democratic life. It wants to be prosperous. It wants to be respected. And this is a country that is not only a neighbor, a partner, but also a friend, but is something which is very important. Also one huge part of its population is living here in the United States. So to understand Mexico, in a way, is to understand yourselves, as you are now.
Mexicans have to get rid, once and for all, of the prejudice and the old ideological sentiments towards the United States. I mean if we want to become a more modern country it's something that we have to do, mainly by ourselves and yes, we need the understanding of our neighbor and partner, but we need to do it ourselves.
Daljit Dhaliwal:
Enrique Krauze, thank you very much for joining us on Wide Angle.
Enrique Krauze:
Thank you very much. It's been a real pleasure.
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