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Carol Marin: In Iraq and in Afghanistan we are
trying to do some of these same things though they're different places.
Joseph Biden: No we're not doing
anything like that in either Iraq or Afghanistan.
Carol Marin: You don't think we're trying to bring
democracy on any level?
Joseph Biden:
Yes. We're trying to bring democracy on a wholesale level. We have
fundamentally changed the government. We used force and taken the
oligarchy in both places out of power. That's a fundamentally different
thing. I'm not saying that here. I mean look these terms are really
important, at least for me.
Carol Marin:
No. I don't disagree with what you're saying but the goals, I'm not
talking about the means, right now.
Joseph
Biden: My goal is not democracy. That's a distant hope. Just like
when the president said we're going to deliver democracy to Baghdad and
Iraq. Two years ago I want on record saying it will never happen. All
I'm looking for is a gradual translation that avoids a combustion that
is dangerous to the region and us.
Carol
Marin: You're looking for something sensible.
Joseph Biden: Right, and there is no easy way to
move from the oligarchy in Saudi Arabia to democracy. It's got to be a
process. What we have already done in Iraq and Afghanistan for two
dissimilar as well as similar reasons is we have totally dismantled the
entire ruling structure. And we're trying to put one back together now.
And we see how incredibly difficult it is. I'm not looking to totally
dismantle the ruling structure in Saudi Arabia because we'll have the
same difficult cubed that we have in those two countries. It's beyond
our capacity. What is not beyond our capacity is to say we are no longer
going to empower you to do us harm by continuing to sell you planes
while you and your family give money to people who run Madrasas who say
'Go kill Americans.' We're not going to do that anymore. So it's like
they say to doctors the Hippocratic oath, 'Do no harm.' First thing
we're going to say to you is just 'Do no harm to us.' And the stuff
you're doing is causing us harm. Secondly, we're saying to you for you
own sake and our sake begin the process to try to accomplish survival
here. Begin to modernize. Begin to educate your people so they can have
jobs. So they can have hope. Begin to give women some additional outlet
so they can have hope. Begin the process of politicization -- allowing
at a local level political parties. Give people a stake in their
communities and they will be more inclined to support you rather than
extremists. That's all we're saying.
Carol
Marin: Last question. Is there any doubt in your mind that the
November election is a foreign policy election?
Joseph Biden: None whatsoever.
Carol Marin: It's not about the economy in the United
States.
Joseph Biden: Oh, it is about
the economy. Look all these other things matter. As my dad said, 'If
everything's equally important than nothings important to you.' Let me
put it this way, if we get the next four years as badly wrong as we got
the last four years in foreign policy, it'll take a generation to
correct it. If we get the next four years as badly wrong as we've gotten
the economy, we can correct it in four years. We can have a horrible tax
policy that does great damage to our economy, and over a matter of a
couple years, internally, at our own doing, we can change it. We can put
in place a social policy that's mistaken on education and change it in
one congress. We cannot continue the erosion of American influence,
confidence in American judgment and American wisdom, and think you're
going to turn it around in four years or six years or eight years. We
can do that on welfare reform. We can do that on tax policy. We can do
that on education policy. We can't do that on foreign policy. It's like
turning around a super tanker or stopping a super tanker. It takes
miles. It takes miles. So in that sense there's never been an election
since the end of World War II that has as much of a consequence for
America's place in the world as this election that is coming. It's the
single most important election that has occurred in your lifetime or
mine whether you're for Bush or for Kerry, a radically different view of
the world.
Carol Marin: Senator Biden thank
you very much for joining us on WIDE ANGLE.
Joseph Biden: Thank you.
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Senator Joseph R. Biden (D - Delaware) is the ranking Democrat on the
U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.
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