INT: Tell about the first time you saw a black newspaper. VJ: The first time I saw a black newspaper was --I must have been about -- well, maybe about five in, ah, Wichita, Kansas, and, ah, I was -- oh, we were so proud to see the black newspapers. My father read a lot to us and it was really a wonderful experience. INT: What paper was it? VJ: Ah, I think it was -- well, I -- I can't remember. I was quite young when I, ah, was Kansas, about five, and so I don't remember that. What I remember mostly is the kiddie pages. They're called the Bilican Club and I would --we would be encouraged to write letters and so I got a letter from all over, well, Africa. And, ah, so that was great fun to look into the mailbox. We lived in the country. And I'd see, ah, ah, all these letters. That was very pleasant. INT: Describe what LA was like when you first move there as a little kid? VJ: Well, Los Angeles was very, very exciting. So many different people I had never seen before, like the Indians or the Chinese. It was very exciting and there were a lot of, ah, tradesmen that would come through with their wares, like the vegetable men and the fruit men and it was -- and bread. We -- we really enjoyed running out and sitting and watching them. INT: Tell me about the Depression. VJ: Well, it was -- ah, you'd have to go through it to -- to, ah, see what it was like. But it was, ah, quite a traumatic experience to -- to be, you know, not --for families not to be able to have their basic needs, like shelter and clothing and food, most of all. We were really concerned about that. INT: How did you get interested in photography? VJ: That's a real good question, how I got interested in photography. I think I've always been interested in, ah, pictures because my father took, ah, pictures of the family. We have many of our pictures of the family and then I, ah, ah, saw in the paper about a class, ahm, a neighborhood class that was starting out in photography. And I said, "That's for me." And so I, ah, enrolled in that and then I went a little further and I enrolled in a trades school called Frank Wiggins and, quite by surprise, I, ah, won -- my teacher took a picture I made and had it put in the LA School Journal. So that really started me and I -- I didn't stop after that. I began to take pictures of everything -- babies, children, flowers, anything I could (Laughs) -- it was just a wonderful experience. I'd recommend that to anyone. INT: How did you meet Charlotta Bass? VJ: Ah, well, I knew of her. I met Charlotta Bass because she was sort of a relative of ours. She had married a Bass and my cousin was a Bass. Her -- they were brothers, Mr. Bass and my, ah, cousin's father were brothers. I didn't tell her I was related or anything in any way, but by marriage we were related to Charlotta Bass. INT: How did you start taking photographs for her? VJ: I, ah, started taking photographs with Charlotta Bass because her society editor was about my age and we really hit it off fine and we went to all kinds of things like, ah, fashion shows and, ah ... museums, whatever. And it was real nice. But I also went with Charlotta Bass to her political meetings and that was really a -- a new -- a new perspective for me because I had always, ah, been, ah -- well, I liked art and things like that, but to be in politics was really exciting. And Mrs. Bass, to see her at work, it was really unusual. To me, it was. INT: How so? VJ: Ah, she was, ah ... you mean physically? Let's see, how she looked physically, she was short, sort of stout, not bad-looking, light, fair skin and had an air about her that was matter of fact, not -- no nonsense, although she did allow her -- Mrs. Bass allowed her young people that worked there to pursue what they liked because it really sold papers, you know, to see one's self in the paper. And, ah, but it was different when I went with Mrs. Bass than when I went with Jessie Mae Beavers. INT: Describe the meetings? VJ: Well, she was -- she was a fighter. Mrs. Bass was a real fighter, way ahead of her time. She would -- ah, nothing got past her that was happening. She fought for the sick -- restrictive covenants and fair housing, fair everything. I even went to city hall with her and they were sounding off there at the city hall and she was right among them. Many of meetings she'd get up in front of the people and talk and I was to proud of her. She really was a great speaker and a great pioneer, really. INT: Did she look different than what she was? VJ: Ah, no. I always thought she looked the part. Ahm, Mrs. Bass, sort of there were no surprises with her. She -- she looked pretty much no nonsense, but she really had, ah -- she was just a fighter. That's really the best word to describe her, a real fighter, way ahead of her time. INT: What would you tell them when you took their picture? VJ: Well, first of all, I'd look over to see what I had to work with. Ah, a lot of times I'd say, "Don't look at me." I'd tell 'em where to look because, ah, I'd get more of a natural reaction when they didn't stare right at me. INT: What was it the black photographers were getting that the white photographers weren't? VJ: Oh, well, ah, there's quite a difference between, ah, when you're working for the black paper or --or the white papers. The blacks, we -- really we should have black photographers because, ah, they're more sensitive to problems and they -- they emphasize the positive, rather than the negative, things. There's so much good in the black race that, ah, we must have black papers, black publications. INT: Why was it important to you to be a photographer of the black community? VJ: I'd have to think about that. I'm not so sure, but I felt I was doing something, ah, that was creative and something that I liked and it was a contribution more or less. I felt like I was able to be a part of the mainstream of black society, you might say, even. INT: Was there a difference in the images that you and other black photographers took? VJ: Ah, I think we showed a different side of black people by, as I said, emphasizing the good that we have in the race. And so we felt like we were really making a contribution. I -- ah, I felt I was doing something quite different. All of us, I think, felt that way because we were -- well, we knew we were a minority, but we had a feeling that we were somebody important, so we really tried to make our subjects look extra good, do things that were important, and we -- we really, ah, felt that we were doing good and so were they. VJ: Ah, we constantly at that time were fighting for, ah, a certain image, a certain feeling, and we really, ah, worked hard at it to put the best foot forward in every picture. INT: Why? VJ: Well, we were really fighting, ah, the bad images that were constantly in -- ah, in those days we felt that we were -- we were really -- we felt the discrimination then. We really felt, ah, each one of us tried to put our best foot forward. INT: How did it feel to be a woman photographer back then? VJ: Well, I think it's the personality of the per-- person. I -- ah, when I was in the way of some photographer's picture, I would, ah -- I would challenge him. Sometimes they'd say, "Well, you didn't get anything," and I said, "Well, it's better than what you got, I'm sure." (Laughs) It didn't -- ah, it didn't feel bad to, ah, be the only woman working with the men. I -- I -- I've always favored, you know, the male and I -- and admired them and so I -- it didn't bother me at all. INT: Did you sometimes have to move men out of the way? VJ: That's when -- whenever I, ah, had a problem with getting the, ah, picture just right, the composition, I would, ah, automatically shove -- shove them around, not too rough, but let 'em know where I wanted 'em to stand and they always moved and cooperated. So it was -- it was a pleasant experience that I had with the -- the other photographers. INT: Show me with this camera how you took a picture with that speed graphic camera? VJ: It was --it's kind of difficult to hold it like I did then. You'd hold your -- you'd get -- get it in focus, pull your slide, and then give instructions to your subjects and take the picture and everything would be just perfect. I'd always take two or three so I'd be sure to get something pleasant. It was very heavy and I would, ah, of course, put the, ah ... you know, put the, ah ... slides in this way and after I'd take the picture I'd turn it around so I wouldn't make a double exposure and change it like that and get a new one. And my -- I worked for, ahm, ahm, a man. He told me that, "Well, if they want your picture, you take it, but you don't have to really take it because if you don't pull the slide, you're not getting anything anyway. And they think that they're getting something." So he taught me that. I worked for him, ah, for about two years doing all of his, ah, printing and so maybe you know -- maybe we --people have heard of Macio Sheffield. INT: Tell me if the camera was heavy, what you would do. VJ: Ah, well, first of all, I'd look over the scene and when I had it just right, everybody focused properly, I would hold my hands -- my elbows real tight and -- and so there would be no movement and it was really -- ah, it's something that you develop as you do a lot of, ah, four-by-five heavy cameras. INT: Tell me about meeting famous people when you work at The Eagle. VJ: When I, ah, went to the paper, it was unbelievable the -- the fine people, people who were high achievers in every field -- sports, music, ah, the theatre, in the arts, writers like Langston Hughes and it was just --imagine a person coming from the country. It was just wonderful to meet all these people. I met Marian Anderson, Dorothy Danridge, Billie Holiday, fantastic people. Ralph Bunche. You've heard of him and ... INT: What did you like about taking photos of these important people? VJ: Well, it was -- constantly to take photographs of -- of, ah, all these important people that --from my perspective, it was, ah, the most exciting part of my life to meet all of these people. Just so many, many, they would come to visit The Eagle. I'd meet them at parties. It was -- and I was really excited about it because I was so popular. The minute I had my camera in my hand, I really made a great hit with everybody. (Laughs) INT: Didn't you also take the murder scene pictures? VJ: Yes, I took one. The murder scenes were, oh, real traumatic for me. I was afraid to look at the victims. I -- there was one that, ah, ah, a young man had killed his sweetheart and she was in the bathtub, and I said, "Well, that's not for me." So I didn't go to look at all. But when they brought the man down, ah, the stairs, the police had him, he was very cooperative, very meek and willing to take the steps and come down, but the minute he saw me with my camera, he began to cut up and so I said, "Well now, this is a scene. I'll have to get this one." And so I lowered my light so he would look grotesque and then I'd take the picture and it was -- it made the headlines in the paper. INT: Was The Eagle important to the black community as a paper? VJ: The Eagle was very important to the black community, very important. It -- it really told, ah, what we were about. The, ah, society, the, ahm, all the crime. We didn't have that much crime, I don't think, but, ah, it, ah, really covered the era of that time. It was an exciting time in the -- in the '30s and '40s, very exciting. And I think we covered it quite well then. INT: Were there more opportunities for black women out in the West? VJ: Ah, at that time, the -- the opportunities were limited, very limited. They were either, ahm, working in the kitchens, ahm, taking care of the children, that sort of thing. There -- there weren't too many opportunities to have something different, to do something different. But, ah, at that time we stressed education and we got through that era. INT: Talk to me about Charlotta Bass' relationship with Paul Robeson. VJ: Ah, Charlotta Bass' relationship with, ah, Paul Robeson was a very pleasant one for her. She really did like the man. She really admired him and he admired her and he -- he often came up to her home and we were there and we'd, ah, get -- I was all excited because I had my picture taken with Paul Robeson at that time. And, ah, he was such a fine gentleman, but he was -- he got a raw deal, I felt, and I'm sure Mrs. Bass felt the same way. INT: Did that relationship affect The Eagle? VJ: Well, I -- I really can't talk too much about Mrs. Bass', ah, problems with the, ah, government because, ah, I -- I wasn't into that too much. VJ: She -- ah, Mrs. Bass ran for office and, ah, I think at one time city council and then she was on ticket with Wallace. I can't remember his first name, Wallace. But, anyway, she ran as the Vice President with Wallace. INT: What did you think about that? VJ: Well, it was unusual. I didn't think she would, you know, make it, but, ah, it meant a lot to her, I think, to be chosen. She got a lot of publicity. VJ: Ah, Mrs. Bass' relationship with, ah --association with Paul Robeson definitely hurt her, I believe. It really did, but she was a person that would keep a lot of her -- her frustrations to herself. She didn't, ah, burden anybody with it. She was a -- as I've said, she was a fighter and she could stand up to anyone. INT: How did her being labeled a communist hurt her and the paper? VJ: She was less fiery after that. I think Mrs. Bass, after she had problems with, ah, the government, she -- it did something terrible to her. She changed quite a bit, I feel, after, ah -- it was such a terrible period to be, you know -- to be considered a communist. INT: How did she change? VJ: More -- Mrs. Bass became more weak -- meek after association with Paul Robeson, but she stayed right by him, was really, ah, pulling for him all the time and I --she went to Russia and I think he was there at the time, but after that he didn't -- ah, when he came back, he couldn't get out of the United States. VJ: What did it mean to be labeled a communist and to have the government after you in those days? VJ: Well, you knew that whenever the government was after not only Mrs. Bass, but other people, we, ah, felt that, ah, that was really the end of it. That was really a - ah, it was a terrible label in those days to be called communist. INT: Why? VJ: Because of all the -- the -- the things that were -- the circumstances were very negative after that. And I think that, ah, we were critical of, ah, anyone who was, ah, labeled as a communist. INT: Did Mrs. Bass have an influence on you? VJ: Mrs. Bass had a great influence upon me. I began to -- I really began to think after I worked with her for a while. I had a different feeling about things that were negative that were being done to our people and I really did -- I became a fighter and I'd write letters. Every time something bothered me, I'd write a letter to The Times and they seemed to like my angle. They printed about 25 of my letters in The LA Times because I was really a fighter, too, by that time, after I worked with her. INT: What were those protests you photographed? VJ: Well, mostly fighting, ah -- fighting, ah, restrictive covenants where we couldn't -- where blacks couldn't go to certain sections. There was so much of that ... INT: How did Mrs. Bass and The Eagle lead the fight against restrictive covenants? VJ: Ah, well, first of all, she'd take her photographer -- photographers with her and take pictures of -- of the skirmishes, whatever they did there. And, ah, we have pictures of, ah, them serving tea to those that were either picketing or sitting around talking about the cruelty and all that. INT: Were the black newspapers, including The Eagle, instrumental in getting restrictive covenants ended? VJ: Ah, the black papers were instrumental in getting, ah, restrictive covenants set aside. She -- she came at it with everything she had. She'd write in her column. She'd write the -- the editorials and -- and, ah, illustrate it with our pictures. She was really, ah, into it. (END INTERVIEW)