{"id":19829,"date":"2020-02-12T10:35:53","date_gmt":"2020-02-12T18:35:53","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.pbs.org\/independentlens\/?post_type=blog&p=19829"},"modified":"2023-09-29T10:14:27","modified_gmt":"2023-09-29T17:14:27","slug":"unearthing-the-thorny-intersection-of-belief-religion-and-science","status":"publish","type":"blog","link":"https:\/\/www.pbs.org\/independentlens\/blog\/unearthing-the-thorny-intersection-of-belief-religion-and-science\/","title":{"rendered":"Religion, Science and Belief: Unearthing the Thorny Intersection"},"content":{"rendered":"

Filmmakers Monica Long Ross and Clayton Brown have long been fascinated by how science and culture mix–or don’t mix–in America. In short, that relationship is complicated.\u00a0 They directed and produced the award-winning documentaries The Atom Smashers<\/em><\/a>, which was about the search for the Higgs boson particle, and The Believers<\/em>, the story of two scientists who thought they had discovered Cold Fusion–or, a “cautionary tale of sharing science too soon,” as the Scientific American called it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So naturally, when they heard about a creationist museum in Kentucky building a humongous replica of Noah’s Ark, their curiosity was piqued. The resulting film<\/span> We Believe in Dinosaurs <\/i><\/b><\/a>goes far beyond just that story, as it unfolds through the eyes of multiple people and perspectives connected to the museum, from the character designers working on the Ark exhibit, to a former member of the Creation Museum now writing critically about it, a geologist, local storeowners who hope the exhibit will boost the economy, and an atheist group. The “entertaining documentary” is “often amusing, but never condescending towards either Ark proponents or their equally vocal opponents,” wrote Dennis Harvey in <\/span>Variety<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

We talked to Clayton and Monica (who is also a successful playwright) about the, pardon the expression, evolution for this film, how they tried to tell the story in a balanced way, and what it was like to climb a fossil-infused cliff for one key scene.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Why did you want to make this film in particular?\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

We have a special interest in the intersection of science and culture in our country and a concern about the growth of science denial here in the U.S.\u00a0 We have explored America\u2019s conflicted relationship with science in two previous documentaries. The conflict between religion and science has been on our radar since then because as we were filming The Atom Smashers<\/em>, the school board in Dover, Pennsylvania attempted to insert Intelligent Design into the curriculum.\u00a0 And although people are very familiar with climate change denial, far fewer are as aware of the little-explored \u201cwar on evolution.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So when we heard that a religious organization had built a Creation Museum in Kentucky, a so-called science museum dedicated to the idea that the Bible is historically and scientifically accurate, we became very curious. When we heard they were about to start building a \u201clife-sized\u201d Noah\u2019s Ark theme park dedicated to proving with science that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that Noah\u2019s Flood was a real event, we knew we\u2019d found the story we had been looking for. We Believe in Dinosaurs<\/em> explores the deeply felt conflict between religion and science that some Americans experience.\u00a0 We believe the film shows that the stakes are extremely high on both sides of the question.<\/span><\/p>\n

Who do you hope sees We Believe in Dinosaurs<\/em> the most? And what sort of reactions and discussions would you like to see come of it?<\/b><\/p>\n

We hope that science teachers, students, professional scientists, politicians, parents, school boards, churches, and all audiences \u2013 religious or not — will become more aware that one of the bedrocks of all of science, the theory of evolution, is under attack. We hope that audiences realize that, like Dan Phelps, a Kentucky-based geologist in our film, they can act to support the very American ideal of separation of church and state in their communities. That they can ask about the teaching of evolution in their local high schools, and that they can ask local and national candidates for office if they accept the theory of evolution. That the film\u2019s greatest impact would be action is our greatest hope.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And finally, we hope one of the greatest impacts of the film will be felt by young people who are struggling to reconcile their religion with science.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

David, a former creationist who is a main character in the film, poignantly describes considering for the first time that the Bible might represent something other than history, and we imagine a young person beginning a journey like David\u2019s and being inspired to, as he says, \u201clook at the universe and hear what it was saying.\u201d While we don\u2019t think the film will have much impact on those who deeply believe the theory of evolution is heretical, we do hope that they are able to view the film as representing them and their beliefs fairly.<\/span><\/p>\n

What were some of the biggest challenges you faced in making this film?<\/b>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The biggest challenge was a surprise to us:\u00a0 the creationists we spoke with were enthusiastically open and candid with us, but the mainstream scientists were often guarded and unwilling or to speak on record about anything to do with creationism.\u00a0 In some instances, scientists were even prohibited by their institutions from speaking on camera about the topic because they feared they would face public criticism and even lose significant donors. The topic of religion and science is a tricky one to negotiate for scientists, and it often resulted in their being unwilling to publicly defend evolution \u2013 and their lives\u2019 work \u2013 against the aggressive attacks from creationists.\u00a0 As it turns out, this challenge actually helped us to focus the story on the three main subjects and evolve through their experiences, making the film ultimately stronger.<\/span><\/p>\n

Given sensitivities around this subject, did it take awhile for all the people in the film to trust you to tell their side of the story?<\/b><\/p>\n

We believe we gained trust by being respectful and asking good questions. Dan Phelps, the Kentucky geologist, says we became family because we showed up at his home regularly. The creationists working on the Ark Encounter were eager to explain their beliefs to us, so we kept coming back and asking more questions.\u00a0 As a result, whenever we asked to film various steps and events during the construction of the Ark Encounter, they agreed, also including us in the media events they regularly held. We are grateful to them for sharing so much with us, and it is our true desire that they recognize themselves in the film as being depicted honestly and accurately.\u00a0 The balance in the film comes especially from our relationship with Doug Henderson, one of the lead artisans on the Ark Encounter, and our respect for his work and beliefs. He gained our trust as much as we gained his.<\/span><\/p>\n

And how did you get access to the Creation Museum people in the film? Were they reluctant to be filmed?<\/b><\/p>\n

Again, the truth is, the creationists at the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter (both under the umbrella organization Answers in Genesis, or AIG) are very proud of and confident in what they believe. Not only are they not secretive, they actually have a very active and sophisticated PR and marketing department. They regularly send out press releases, inviting news outlets of all beliefs to cover their activities.\u00a0 They regularly make their spokespeople available for interviews, debates, news conferences, etc. As Doug Henderson says in the film, \u201cI don\u2019t think I\u2019m going to convert you as you walk out the door. But I want you to see that I\u2019m not crazy, and that I really believe in this, and that any chance I get to talk about it, I\u2019ll take it.\u201d That\u2019s a good summation of how they responded to us in general.<\/span><\/p>\n

What else has often come up with audiences who’ve seen We Believe in Dinosaurs<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Another question we are often asked is \u201cWhat about (fill in the blank: carbon dating, starlight from distant stars, the geologic record, cavemen, or other scientific concepts) that would seem to offer irrefutable evidence that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old?\u201d What we quickly realized, and what David MacMillan the former creationist explains in the film, is that they\u2019re called Answers in Genesis for a reason.\u00a0 They have an answer to every possible scientific argument you could ever think of, from changing rates of carbon decay to God stretching the universe out as a curtain to account for the red-shift in starlight.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Did you actually have to climb up all those rocks with the geologist in the film?<\/b><\/p>\n

When we first meet Dan Phelps, he takes us high up a cliff face on a fossil-hunting trip.\u00a0 As he says, \u201cAt times like this I wish the James Bond jet pack had been perfected.\u201d It was a harrowing climb \u2013 and getting down was even trickier!\u00a0 Clayton had a backpack camera rig that dangled the camera on a pole over his head, and climbing down required both hands, so the camera had to fend for itself.\u00a0 Luckily, camera operator and camera survived the descent.<\/span><\/p>\n

What else did you shoot for We Believe in Dinosaurs that was interesting but you had to cut out?<\/b><\/p>\n

So many things!\u00a0 When you trim over 200 hours of footage to 90 minutes, you make some very painful choices. We would have liked to include more science. More of a direct comparison between evolution and creationism and a deeper dive into both.\u00a0 More politics, both local and national. More about the impact of creationist homeschooling on children. More about school boards, teachers, and parents. More about David\u2019s journey and early life, Dan\u2019s activism long family history in Kentucky and why he stays there. Doug\u2019s incredible artwork and his passionate beliefs. All of these things, both conceptual and personal, illustrate the stakes for Americans who care about the impact science denial is having on education and the erosion of the separation of church and state in their own communities. But ultimately, we are telling a story, and we only have 90 minutes!<\/span><\/p>\n

Do you have a scene in your film that is especially a favorite or made the most impact on you?\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

One scene for us that is impactful takes place in Williamstown, the small town that hosts the Ark Encounter. Elmer\u2019s General Store was a fledgling business that offers ice cream sodas and a snack counter, local crafts, and holds music shows.\u00a0 As the Ark Encounter is being built, they are excited about the financial opportunities they believe will result from this tourist attraction coming to town.\u00a0 They even perform a song for us about the Ark Encounter one of them has written. The expectation and excitement is palpable, representing what the town hopes will raise them out of the economic trouble they\u2019ve been experiencing for so long. Unfortunately, it is not to be. <\/span><\/p>\n

But perhaps most moving is the scene featuring David\u2019s story about the moment he realizes he must leave creationism behind: he sees a beautiful image from space — evidence for the truth about how old the universe must be — that he can\u2019t explain away.\u00a0 We\u2019re always moved when he says \u201cThis is a new world. It\u2019s a different world than I thought it was.\u201d Kate Simko\u2019s beautiful score in that moment underlines the emotion involved in rejecting a worldview you\u2019ve always known and embracing another.<\/span><\/p>\n

What are your three favorite\/most influential documentaries or feature films?\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

Again, so many! But some docs that have influenced our work include <\/span>Man on Wire<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>Capturing the Friedmans<\/span><\/i>, and <\/span>Jesus Camp<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Filmmakers Monica Long Ross and Clayton Brown have long been fascinated by how science and culture mix–or don’t mix–in America. In short, that relationship is complicated.\u00a0 They directed and produced the award-winning documentaries The Atom Smashers, which was about the search for the Higgs boson particle, and The Believers, the story of two scientists who […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":13,"featured_media":19845,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1357,938],"tags":[],"topic":[1265,1239,1983],"class_list":["post-19829","blog","type-blog","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-beyond-the-films","category-interviews","topic-faith","topic-identity","topic-science"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nReligion, Science and Belief: Unearthing the Thorny Intersection - Independent Lens<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Filmmakers Clayton Brown and Monica Long Ross talk about the evolution for the PBS documentary We Believe in Dinosaurs and telling the story in a balanced way.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.pbs.org\/independentlens\/blog\/unearthing-the-thorny-intersection-of-belief-religion-and-science\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Religion, Science and Belief: Unearthing the Thorny Intersection - 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