"The following is a complete, unedited, unverified
interview, portions
Jack Bjoze: I met Morris Cohen in January or February 1938, during the Spanish Civil War. Interviewer: What were you doing there? Jack Bjoze: We were recruited to train in guerrilla warfare; that's fighting behind the enemy lines. Our school was based in Barcelona. The school consisted of Americans, British, Germans, Czechs, and a number of other nationalities. Interviewer: What motivated you and Morris to fight in Spain? What were your shared ideals? Jack Bjoze: Our shared ideas were the conditions in the United States on employment, bread lines, no jobs, and danger of Hitler coming into power. Interviewer: And whom were you fighting for? Jack Bjoze: We were fighting for the Republic of Spain. Interviewer: Had Morris been wounded during the fighting? Jack Bjoze: Morris was wounded in Spain in Fuentes del Ebro. I think that took place sometime during the summer of 1938. I don't remember the exact dates. Interviewer: What happened to him? Jack Bjoze: He was shot in both legs. He was in a hospital for several weeks, then recuperating in some home in Spain. Interviewer: You and he became good friends? Jack Bjoze: We became good friends at the school in Barcelona, and we've been friends for many more years. Interviewer: What was he like? Jack Bjoze: He was a very charming person. He was tall. He would always engage you in political discussions. He was a good athlete. We had a soccer game in which we took part, and our opponents were Germans. Morris was the best athlete in our - in our team. Interviewer: These German Communists, were they on the other side? Jack Bjoze: The Germans, well, the school consisted actually of other - other nationalities. There were some English, there were some Germans, there were Czechs, and there were French and others. Interviewer: Now you say that you and Morris had political discussions. What were your politics? What were his politics? Jack Bjoze: Well, his were Communist's politics. Interviewer: Tell me a bit more about Morris's' politics. What did he talk to you about? Jack Bjoze: It's been fifty some-what years, and I can't remember what we discussed, but we discussed many, many subjects. We talked about the Soviet Union, we talked about conditions in America, we talked about the danger of Hitler. Interviewer: What made young men like you and Morris become Communists? What were the ideals behind that? Jack Bjoze: Well, I can't answer for Morris. Morris came from a background, well, that is to say, his parents were Communist. They came from the Ukraine. They were involved in activities in the old country, and I suppose it rubbed off on Morris. Interviewer: How would you describe Morris' own politics? Was Morris a Communist? Jack Bjoze: Morris was a Communist. He was a member of the Communist Party before he left for Spain. Interviewer: Did he talk to you about his Communist ideals? Jack Bjoze: We talked about his Communist ideas, how often I can't remember. Interviewer: Was he good fun to be with? Was he an amusing person to be with? Jack Bjoze: Yes, he was. Interviewer: You came back to New York and you helped Morris find work with the Russians. Tell me about that in your own words. Jack Bjoze: During the Worlds Fair, a Russian came to me. I was at the time Executive Secretary of the Veterans Lincoln Gate. They needed people they could trust. I recommended a number of veterans who fought in Spain, and Morris was one of them. They needed guards. They needed kitchen help. They needed drivers, and I recommended a number of veterans. Interviewer: When do you think Morris may have been recruited to work as a spy? Jack Bjoze: From the Worlds Fair, he was transferred to Amtorg. Amtorg, as you probably know, is a trading organization, and he worked for Amtorg for a number of years as a waiter in the dinning room, as well as in the kitchen. Interviewer: Do you think that's all he did? Or was he recruited by the espionage service then? Jack Bjoze: I believe - I believe he was. Interviewer: Can you say that in your own words? What you believe? Jack Bjoze: Well, I didn't actually want to get into that. I had, you know, nothing to do with it. Interviewer: What do you think happened? Jack Bjoze: Well, I think he was recruited at Amtorg for future work with the Russians, whatever that may have been. Interviewer: But he never told you about that? Jack Bjoze: He never told me about that. Not at the time anyway. Interviewer: You say not at the time. Did he tell you about it later? Jack Bjoze: Well, he told me about it later. Interviewer: What did he tell you? Jack Bjoze: Well, not in so many words, but I had an idea, because he disappeared from time to time. It was my understanding that's what he was involved in. Interviewer: Involved in what? Jack Bjoze: Involved in espionage work. Interviewer: But he never told you, you just guessed that? Jack Bjoze: He told me, but he didn't use the word "espionage." He just worked for the Russians. Interviewer: Tell me how Morris met Lona, and what was she like? Jack Bjoze: How he met Lona? I don't know how he met Lona. Interviewer: When did he meet Lona? Jack Bjoze: In the early forties. Interviewer: What Lona was like? Describe Lona? Jack Bjoze: Well she was broad shouldered, medium height, not pretty, but sexy. Interviewer: Was she chatty? Jack Bjoze: She was chatty Interviewer: Did you like her? Jack Bjoze: No, I didn't. I did not like her. Interviewer: Why not? Jack Bjoze: I did not like Lona at all. She was too chatty; she was broad shouldered medium height, not pretty, drank much, she was not my type of woman. Interviewer: Why do you think Morris liked her? Jack Bjoze: I can't - can't answer that. Interviewer: Now, Morris asked you to help him a little bit in his work didn't he? What did he ask you to do? Jack Bjoze: He asked me to check on certain people, if they were trustworthy, if they could be relied on, and if they could help him. Interviewer: Help him in what way? Jack Bjoze: Help him in his work. Interviewer: Now Lona began to spy for the Russians. Did she ever tell you the story of the Kleenex box? Jack Bjoze: Yes, Lona told me the story of the Kleenex box. Interviewer: And what was the story? Jack Bjoze: The story was she had picked up an envelope from some body from the Manhattan project. On her way back to New York she boarded a train, the security was very tight. The security officer came to her to examine her luggage; she had a small suitcase, a handbag, and a box of Kleenex. She couldn't find the key to the suitcase. Well she had trouble finding the key to the suitcase, she handed the Kleenex box to the Security officer and looked for the key. The suitcase was finally opened; her handbag was searched. She boarded the train without the Kleenex box. In comes the security officer and hands her the Kleenex box with the information contained in the box. Interviewer: And he didn't know what was in it. What was in the Kleenex box? Jack Bjoze: Well, I would assume the Kleenex box contained information about what was going on at the Manhattan project. Interviewer: She told you this herself? Lona told you this story? Jack Bjoze: No, she didn't tell me what kind of information it was. I don't believe she knew at the time. Interviewer: But she told you the story about the Kleenex box. Jack Bjoze: But she told me about the Kleenex box, yes. Interviewer: Did she think it was a funny story? Jack Bjoze: She thought it was very funny. I thought it was funny too. Interviewer: Now, of course, your good friend, your best friend, Morris and Lona had to leave New York in a big hurry. They came to see you just before they left. What happened? Jack Bjoze: They said they were going on a holiday, sort of a last minute arrangements. Lona did not have proper clothes. She came to our apartment and asked my wife if she can pick up some things to wear, and my wife was happy to give them to her. Interviewer: Was that the last you saw of them? Jack Bjoze: That was the last I saw her. Interviewer: Morris's mother came and saw you several times? Jack Bjoze: Morris's mother came to me several times in the fifties, early fifties, and asked me if I knew where they were, or if I'd heard from them. I told her I had no knowledge, but I'm sure he was okay. Interviewer: Was she very upset? Jack Bjoze: She was devastated. Interviewer: What did she say? Jack Bjoze: She cried, and then left shortly. Interviewer: What happened when the FBI came to see you in the late fifties? Jack Bjoze: The FBI came to see me and questioned me about Morris. Did I know where he was? I told them I had no knowledge. They took out some photos and they showed me how Morris was being followed, trailed in London. They would publish those pictures in Look magazine, and I would be implicated. Interviewer: Now, looking back on it forty, fifty years later, some people would say that Morris and Lona were traitors. What do you think about their decision to betray the secrets of the A-Bomb? Jack Bjoze: I wouldn't classify them as traitors; it was something that they believed in. They did not believe in the A-Bomb being in the hands of one country, he believed it would be in very, dangerous. The A-bomb could have been used against China, for example, and amongst the military there were some of the top generals who were in favour of using the 'A-Bomb' against China. In addition, we were allies at that time. Interviewer: Russia and America? Jack Bjoze: Russia and American were allies. We were not enemies. Interviewer: So Morris believed that it was right to give the Russians those secrets. Jack Bjoze: Yes Interviewer: Okay. If near the end of his life, you'd hope to meet Morris in - in Russia, what question would you have asked him? If you could ask him a question now, what question would you like to ask him? Jack Bjoze: The first question would be about his health, his living conditions. Have his ideas changed since he's been in Russia for the past fifteen or twenty years. Interviewer: Do you think his ideas might have changed? Jack Bjoze: It's hard to say. |
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Interviewer: Jack, tell me how and where you
met Morris Cohen.