[THEME MUSIC] ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW- NEW YORK'S COURT SYSTEM IS AT AN INFLECTION POINT AFTER COVID-19 - CHANGED THE GAME.

WE'LL SPEAK WITH HANK GREENBERG, WHO CHAIRS THE COMMISSION, TO REIMAGINE THE FUTURE OF NEW YORK'S COURTS.

THEN, NEW YORK IS CONSIDERING NEW GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS FOR GRADE-SCHOOL STUDENTS.

WE'LL EXPLAIN.

PLUS, A NEW ON THE BILL LOOKS AT HOW AMBULANCES GET PAID.

I'M DAN CLARK AND THIS IS NEW YORK NOW.

[MUSIC] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.

I'M DAN CLARK.

FOR THE PAST MONTH, WE'VE BEEN OPENING EACH WEEK'S SHOW WITH AN UPDATE ON THE STATE'S MIGRANT CRISIS.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THIS REALLY IS THE MOST PRESSING ISSUE IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW.

BUT PROGRESS ON MANAGING THE CRISIS HAS BEEN SLOW-GOING.

LAST WEEK WE TOLD YOU HOW THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AGREED TO HELP NEW YORK GET MORE ASYLUM SEEKERS INTO JOBS.

BUT AS FAR AS FINANCIAL HELP TO HOUSE THOSE PEOPLE AND PROVIDE OTHER SERVICES THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS THAT'S UP TO CONGRESS.

AND WITH THE HOUSE IN REPUBLICAN HANDS AND NEW YORK UNDER DEMOCRATIC CONTROL, THE POLITICS OF THE SITUATION MAKE ANY ACTION AT THE U.S. CAPITOL PRETTY UNLIKELY.

REPUBLICAN HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY EVEN SAID THIS WEEK THAT DEMOCRATS ARE TO BLAME FOR THE CRISIS BECAUSE OF WEAK IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AT THE BORDER.

THOUGH WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THESE MIGRANTS ARE SEEKING ASYLUM A COMPLETELY LEGAL WAY TO CROSS THE BORDER ENTER THE COUNTRY AND WAIT FOR A DECISION.

BACK HOME, MEANWHILE, REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE CALLED ON DEMOCRATS THIS WEEK TO GAVEL BACK INTO SESSION AND DO SOMETHING TO HELP MANAGE THE CRISIS.

AND WHEN ASKED ABOUT THAT THIS WEEK, HERE'S HOW GOVERNOR HOCHUL RESPONDED.

I WILL SAY WE'RE EXPLORING ALL OUR OPTIONS AT THE STATE LEVEL.

I ENCOURAGE, IF YOU TALK ABOUT GOING BACK INTO SESSION, I'M ENCOURAGING OUR REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO USE THEIR INFLUENCE WITH SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY AND SAY MAYBE WE SHOULD GET BACK AND IMPLEMENT IMMIGRATION LAWS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN ASKING FOR FOR YEARS NOW, AND MAYBE WE SHOULD ALSO HELP GIVE SOME MONEY TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT.

THEY'RE THE ONES SHUTTING IT DOWN.

SO AS YOU CAN HEAR THERE, POLITICS CONTINUES TO DRIVE THIS SITUATION WITH NEITHER PARTY WILLING TO CROSS THE AISLE AHEAD OF NEXT YEAR'S ELECTIONS.

WE'LL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT SITUATION, AND WE'LL LINK TO MORE REPORTING FROM OUR PARTNERS AT THE TIMES UNION ON OUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG.

BUT TURNING NOW TO A NEW EDITION OF "ON THE BILL" WHERE WE TELL YOU ABOUT A BILL OUT OF ALBANY THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HEAR ABOUT OTHERWISE.

THIS WEEK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT S1466 ALSO CALLED THE DIRECT PAY BILL.

AND IT'S ABOUT AMBULANCES WHICH IMPACT JUST ABOUT EVERYONE.

RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU'RE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL IN AN AMBULANCE YOUR INSURANCE PAYS FOR IT.

IF THE AMBULANCE IS IN-NETWORK, YOU'RE COVERED UNDER THE TERMS OF YOUR PLAN AND YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE BILL.

BUT IF THE AMBULANCE IS OUT-OF-NETWORK, IT'S DIFFERENT.

IN THOSE CASES, YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY SENDS YOU THE CHECK AND THEN IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY THE AMBULANCE COMPANY.

AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN LEAVING AMBULANCE COMPANIES IN THE COLLECTIONS BUSINESS.

THAT BRINGS US TO S1466.

IT'S A BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO PAY THOSE BILLS DIRECTLY MEANING THE CHECK WOULD GO STRAIGHT FROM THEM TO THE AMBULANCE COMPANY.

AND IMPORTANTLY THE PATIENT WOULDN'T BE THE MIDDLE-MAN.

JEFF CALL OPERATES GUILFOYLE AMBULANCE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY AND IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED NEW YORK AMBULANCE NETWORK.

WHEN YOU CALL 911 FOR AN AMBULANCE YOU'VE NEVER HEARD ANYBODY SAY, WELL, YOU DIDN'T PAY YOUR BILL FOR LAST WEEK'S AMBULANCE CALL SO YOU'RE NOT GETTING AN AMBULANCE TODAY.

SO WE RESPOND WHETHER WE'VE BEEN PAID BY YOU IN THE PAST, WHETHER WE KNOW YOU, WE RESPOND WE PROVIDE CARE, WE TRANSPORT YOU EVERY TIME.

THAT SYSTEM HAS JUST BEEN ABUSED TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THEIR BILLS.

HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE AGAINST THE BILL SAYING IT WOULD DISINCENTIVIZE AMBULANCE COMPANIES FROM JOINING HEALTH CARE NETWORKS DRIVING UP THE COST IN SOME CASES FOR CONSUMERS.

BUT TURNING NOW TO ACCESS TO JUSTICE IN NEW YORK.

IF YOU WATCH THIS SHOW YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW COMPLICATED NEW YORK'S COURT SYSTEM CAN BE.

BUT IN JUST THE PAST FEW YEARS IT'S COMPLETELY CHANGED.

WHEN COVID HIT COURTS WENT ONLINE WHICH ALLOWED A LOT OF CASES TO MOVE FORWARD.

BUT IT ALSO OPENED THE DOOR FOR MORE CHANGES AS THE STATE'S COURTS REACH AN INFLECTION POINT POST-PANDEMIC.

AND THERE'S ALOT TO THAT.

SO FOR MORE ON THE FUTURE OF NEW YORK'S COURTS AND ACCESS TO JUSTICE WE SPOKE WITH HANK GREENBERG, A SHAREHOLDER AT GREENBERG TRAURIG WHO CHAIRS THE STATE'S COMMISSION TO REIMAGINE THE FUTURE OF NEW YORK'S COURTS.

HANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

I APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

OF COURSE, ANYTIME.

SO COURTS ARE A BIG, BIG SYSTEM IN NEW YORK.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST COMPLICATED COURTS IN THE COUNTRY.

YOU WROTE AN OP ED IN THE NEW YORK LAW JOURNAL RECENTLY TALKING ABOUT THIS INFLECTION POINT IN COURTS RIGHT NOW TALKING ABOUT HOW DURING THE PANDEMIC THE COURT SYSTEM IN NEW YORK CHANGED.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN?

WELL, WE EXPERIENCED A QUIET REVOLUTION.

THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC USHERED IN MORE CHANGE THAN WE'VE SEEN IN 200 YEARS.

HISTORICALLY, WE'VE ALWAYS VIEWED COURTS AS PHYSICAL PLACES.

AND ONCE WE LOCKED DOWN AND SHUTTERED THE ECONOMY AND ALL OF NEW YORK AND MUCH OF THE NATION, WE RECOGNIZED, IN ORDER TO KEEP THE JUSTICE SYSTEM GOING, WE HAD TO MOVE ONLINE.

SO FOR A PROFESSION THAT IS HIGHLY RESISTANT TO CHANGE, JUDGES AND LAWYERS ARE RARELY IF EVER IN THE VANGUARD OF CHANGE, THEY HAD NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO MOVE TO ONLINE PLATFORMS, THUS THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL COURT SYSTEM CAME TO BE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE RESULT OF THAT IS?

IS THAT A GOOD THING IN TERMS OF WE'VE HAD A BACKLOG OF CASES FOR QUITE A LONG TIME IN THE STATE COURT SYSTEM.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO CONCERNS OF VIRTUAL COURT.

MAYBE YOU'RE ORDERED TO VIRTUAL COURT AND YOU CAN'T GET ACCESS TO THAT EITHER.

IS THAT A PROBLEM?

AND WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE OTHER TOP PROBLEMS, IF ANY, IN THE COURT SYSTEM RIGHT NOW?

OF COURSE, COVID WAS A TRAGEDY, BUT NET EFFECT AS A RESULT OF MOVING COURTS ONLINE I THINK WAS ALL TO THE GOOD.

A TERRIFIC DEVELOPMENT.

SILVER LINING, IF YOU WILL.

IF YOU WILL.

AND THERE WERE THESE TRENDS AND TENDENCIES THAT YOU REPORTED WHEN YOU WERE WITH THE LAW JOURNAL CREEPING TOWARDS THAT, BUT COVID ACCELERATED EVERYTHING.

AND I THINK WE'RE NOW IN A PLACE WHERE, BECAUSE LAWYERS AND JUDGES HAVE BECOME FAMILIAR, COMFORTABLE WITH DEALING WITH CERTAIN COURT PROCEEDINGS ONLINE, ZOOM, A VERB, ALL OF A SUDDEN TOOK ON A NEW MEANING.

WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT AND WE HOPE IT DOESN'T SNAP BACK LIKE A RUBBER BAND TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE COVID.

RIGHT.

YOU ALSO WRITE ABOUT THE ACCESS TO JUSTICE GAP, WHICH I THINK IS PART OF THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION.

WE HAVE VIRTUAL COURT, WHICH I THINK IS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU WRITE THAT THIS GAP IS GETTING WIDER WHERE LOW-INCOME AND A LOT OF MIDDLE-INCOME PEOPLE JUST CAN'T AFFORD ATTORNEYS.

CAN'T AFFORD TO EVEN PURSUE LITIGATION BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THE STATE COURT SYSTEM WORKS AND THEY DON'T HAVE ATTORNEYS.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT?

DO WE HAVE A SYSTEM LESS JUST THAN WE MIGHT IF WE WENT TO THAT DIRECTION?

THE JUSTICE GAP, AS SOME PEOPLE CALL IT, IS A CHASM THAT'S WIDENING INTO AN ABYSS, WHICH TENS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE FALLING ALL THE TIME.

LAWYERS, MANY IN THE PUBLIC, UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS AN ACCESS TO JUSTICE ISSUE, CIVIL CASES COST TOO MUCH, TAKE TOO MUCH TIME.

PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, AND IT'S NOT IN STEP WITH THE DIGITAL AGE.

SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S AN ISSUE.

THEY'VE UNDERSTOOD IT FOR DECADES.

WHAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT'S METASTASIZED INTO A CRISIS.

I THINK PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME WRAPPING THEIR MIND AROUND THE BASIC FACT THAT TWO-THIRDS OF ALL CIVIL CASES BROUGHT IN THE UNITED STATES, ONE OF THE TWO PARTIES IS NOT REPRESENTED BY A LAWYER.

FOR LOW-INCOME AMERICANS, 92% OF THEIR LEGAL PROBLEMS THEY HAVE TO NAVIGATE WITHOUT A LAWYER.

SCHOLARS NOW REFER TO IT AS LAWYERLESS COURTS.

SOME COURTS, 90% OF THE DOCKET INVOLVE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL.

IT IS A CRISIS BECAUSE THE CASES IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE IN COURT, AT LEAST THOSE WHO ACCESS THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T HAVE A LAWYER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CASES THAT INVOLVE THE MOST SENSITIVE, IMPORTANT PARTS OF THEIR LIFE.

ARE THEY EVICTED FROM THEIR HOME?

ARE THEY THE VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE?

WILL THEY HAVE TO EXPERIENCE BANKRUPTCY OR DEBT?

GUARDIANSHIP PROCEEDINGS?

CHILD CUSTODY PROCEEDINGS?

THESE ARE HIGHLY COMPLEX, MASSIVELY IMPORTANT FOR REAL PEOPLE, AND YET SO MANY OF THEM HAVE TO GO TO COURT WITHOUT A LAWYER.

THINK ABOUT THIS: A RECENT STUDY PLACES THE UNITED STATES 115TH OUT OF 140 NATIONS IN THE WORLD IN TERMS OF ACCESSIBILITY AND AFFORDABILITY OF JUSTICE.

115 OUT OF 140.

THIS FOR A COUNTRY THAT PRIDES ITSELF ON EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW.

IS THERE A SOLUTION TO THAT?

I'M JUST THINKING OF, IN THIS STATE WE HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, WHICH ISN'T REALLY -- IT IS RELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION, BUT I DON'T THINK THE COURT SYSTEM IS CAUSING THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, NECESSARILY, BUT IF PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO LIVE HERE -- I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THE THOUGHT WOULD EVEN ENTER THEIR HEAD TO PUT MONEY DOWN TO KEEP AN ATTORNEY ON RETAINER, HAVE AN ATTORNEY FILE A LAWSUIT, OTHER SOLUTIONS THERE TO CLOSE THAT GAP, DO YOU THINK?

WELL, I DO THINK THERE WERE SOLUTIONS, BUT IT REQUIRES US TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX.

TO BE MORE IMAGINATIVE AND CREATIVE THAN WE'VE BEEN IN THE PAST.

LIKE I SAID, AT LEAST SINCE THE 1980S PEOPLE HAVE RECOGNIZED THIS IS A PROBLEM, AND HISTORICALLY TWO SOLUTIONS HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED.

LAUDABLE, WORTHWHILE, TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE EFFECTIVE, WHICH IS CIVIL LEGAL SERVICES PROVIDED BY LEGAL AID SOCIETIES AND CALLING ON LAWYERS TO PERFORM MORE PRO BONO SERVICES.

THEY'RE VERY GOOD.

VERY IMPORTANT.

AND BY THEMSELVES THEY CAN'T GET THE JOB DONE.

SO THIS IS, I THINK, AS MANY STATES ACROSS THE NATION ARE THINKING ABOUT CREATIVE REGULATORY CHANGES, SOME ARE CONTROVERSIAL, SOME LESS SO, PEOPLE HAVE ADVOCATED FOR ALLOWING NON-LAWYERS TO PERFORM CERTAIN SERVICES THAT LAWYERS TODAY SIMPLY WON'T DO.

AND ESPECIALLY IN PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE THERE ARE SO FEW LAWYERS.

THINK OF THE NORTH COUNTRY, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO I DO THINK THERE ARE THOSE SOLUTIONS, AND THEN TECHNOLOGY, I THINK, HOLDS TREMENDOUS PROMISE.

NOT ONLY TO REDUCE THE COST AND EXPENSE AND BURDEN FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL BUT ALSO TO PROVIDE THEM WITH ACCESS TO BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS.

THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER INTERESTING TREND THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IN TERMS OF JURY TRIALS.

I THINK THE PUBLIC, WHEN THEY THINK OF COURTS, I THINK THEY THINK OF JURY TRIALS AS KIND OF WHAT THE DEFAULT IS, BECAUSE WHEN WE SEE COURTS IN MASS MEDIA, TELEVISION SHOWS, USUALLY IT'S A JUDGE AND A JURY AND A COUPLE OF ATTORNEYS ARGUING.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT MOST CASES DON'T INVOLVE A JURY AND THAT IS GOING DOWN.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

FIRST OF ALL, DO WE KNOW, DO WE KNOW WHY THERE ARE LESS JURY TRIALS NOW?

I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE.

VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN AFFORD IT.

THERE ARE SOME CATEGORIES OF CASES WHERE THE MODEL FOR REIMBURSEMENT FOR ATTORNEYS PERMITS REPRESENTATION, FOR EXAMPLE PERSONAL INJURY CASES, LAWYERS REPRESENT CLIENTS BASED ON A CONTINGENCY FEE, AND IN THOSE CASES, OFTENTIMES THEY WILL GO TO TRIAL.

BUT YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

THE IDEA OF "12 ANGRY MEN," THE MOVIE, POPULAR CULTURE'S IDEA FROM LA LAW OF JURY TRIALS IS MORE CULTURAL CONSTRUCT THAN IT IS A REALITY.

THE PERFECT TRUTH IS, JURY TRIALS ARE RAPIDLY BECOMING EXTINCT.

WHAT WE BELIEVE, WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BELIEVE, MANY PEOPLE IN THE KNOW BELIEVE, IS THAT JURY TRIALS ARE COMMON.

THEY'RE NOT.

THEY'RE NOT.

I WAS CALLED FOR JURY ONE TIME.

I THINK ON MY SECOND DAY THEY TOLD US IT WAS A PLEA BARGAIN.

AND I TALKED TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY WHO ALSO HAVE BEEN ON JURIES WHO ALSO TOLD ME THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO THEM WHEN THEY WERE CALLED FOR JURY; THEY GOT TO BE DISMISSED.

YOU HEARD ABOUT ANOTHER PROBLEM THAT'S BEEN GROWING OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, REALLY, AND IT'S THE THREAT TO JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE, ENCROACHING ON WHAT COURTS SHOULD BE AND WHAT COURTS SHOULD NOT BE.

WE SEE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW IN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WITH CERTAIN ETHICS SCANDALS INVOLVING JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS AND ANOTHER JUSTICE THERE.

THE SUPREME COURT, THOUGH, IS NOT COURTS IN NEW YORK.

WE HAVE A MORE ROBUST ETHICS STRUCTURE HERE WHERE ATTORNEYS AND JUDGES CAN BE REVIEWED AND DISCIPLINED IN THAT SENSE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE, AND WHY THERE ARE THREATS TO IT, TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

WELL, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY.

INFORMED CRITICISM OF COURTS AND JUDICIAL DECISIONS IS, OF COURSE, ACCEPTABLE AND SOMETIMES CONSTRUCTIVE AND HELPFUL.

THAT'S A GIVEN.

BUT THE NEW NORMAL, THE FRIGHTENING NORMAL, IS FINDING ELECTED OFFICIALS LAUNCHING PERSONAL ATTACKS ON MEMBERS OF THE JUDICIARY FOR PARTICULAR DECISIONS AND EVEN THREATENING POLITICAL REPRISAL.

THAT'S SOMETHING VERY, VERY NEW.

HISTORICALLY, ELECTED OFFICIALS, EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OFFICIALS -- BY THE WAY, THIS IS A NATIONAL PHENOMENON WE'RE SEEING -- HAD GREAT RESPECT FOR THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY, GUARDED IT JEALOUSLY, BUT WE'RE LIVING IN THIS TRIBALLIZED, POLARIZED POLITICS AND WE'RE SEEING IT SEEPING INTO THE ASSAULTS ON THE JUDICIARY.

IT'S NOT ONLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

IT'S NOT ONLY UNFAIR BECAUSE JUDGES CAN'T DEFEND THEMSELVES IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, THEY CAN'T SPEAK ABOUT THE DECISIONS THEY'VE HANDED DOWN, IT'S NOT ONLY IRRESPONSIBLE, IT CAN BE DANGEROUS.

RECENT STUDY BY THE UNITED STATES MARSHALL SERVICE SHOWED THAT THERE HAD BEEN OVER A FIVE-YEAR PERIOD AN 89% UPTICK IN THE NUMBER OF THREATS AND INAPPROPRIATE COMMUNICATIONS TOWARD JUDGES, 4,000 A YEAR.

SO THIS IS A VERY, VERY CONCERNING THING.

AND YOU ALSO SEE IT, BY THE WAY, BEING MANIFESTED IN TERMS OF BILLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY BEING INTRODUCED DESIGNED TO HAMSTRING THE JUDICIARY AND LIMIT ITS AUTONOMY AND INDEPENDENCE.

THESE ARE VERY CONCERNING TREND LINES.

I SHOULD MENTION IT SEEMS VERY PERSONAL NOW.

I COULD UNDERSTAND, IN YEARS PAST, A JUDGE ISSUES A DECISION, A CERTAIN POLITICIAN DISAGREES WITH THAT DECISION AND THEN ISSUES THEIR OWN STATEMENT SAYING, I DISAGREE WITH THAT DECISION.

NOW IT'S LESS, I DISAGREE WITH THAT DECISION, AND MORE, THIS JUDGE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEY MAKE IT VERY MUCH ABOUT THAT JUDGE AND THEM PERSONALLY.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT; THEIR DECISION IS WRONG.

OR, IN SOME CASES, IF A JUDGE RULES ONE WAY AND IT'S OVERTURNED ON APPEAL, THEN THE APPEAL COURT IS THE WRONG ONE AND THEY MAINTAIN THE JUDGE IS THE RIGHT ONE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT ONLY CHANGES AS OUR POLITICS CHANGE?

IS THERE A WAY TO BRING THE TEMPERATURE DOWN THERE UNLESS THE PUBLIC DOES TOO?

I DON'T THINK THERE IS.

BUT I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

WELL, PART OF IT IS HEIGHTENING PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE CONSEQUENCE OF THESE KINDS OF THREATS TO THE JUDICIARY, MAKING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT A BASIC PILLAR OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, THE SAFEGUARD OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES IS HAVING A JUDGE WHO DECIDES CASES WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOR, BASED ONLY ON THE FACTS AND THE LAW AND COMMON SENSE.

PEOPLE SPEAK ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW AND USE THE PHRASE ALL THE TIME, BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

ONE OF THE CORE BASES OF THE RULE OF LAW IS THE APOLITICAL ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.

SO FOR PEOPLE WHO TRY TO OVERTLY POLITICIZE THE JUDICIARY, THEY'RE WALKING DOWN A ROAD THAT CAN LEAD TO AUTOCRACY.

SO PART OF, I THINK, THE REASON WHY I'M HOPEFUL IS JOURNALISTS LIKE YOU ARE CALLING ATTENTION TO THIS AND MAKING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT, AND YOU SEE THAT MORE AND MORE.

SO I'M OPTIMISTIC AND HOPEFUL, BUT YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT.

SORT OF THE LARGER POLITICAL MILIEU IN WHICH WE NOW LIVE IS HAVING THESE CONSEQUENCES.

NOT JUST IN THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH BUT ALSO THE JUDICIAL BRANCH.

RIGHT.

I THINK AS WE GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND MORE HOW THE COURTS WORK, I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK WE COULD BRING THE TEMPERATURE DOWN A LITTLE BIT THERE.

I THINK PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN A JUDGE ISSUES A DECISION, A LOT OF THE TIME THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, THEIR PARTY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AN APPEAL.

AND THAT'S JUST HOW THE COURT SYSTEM WORKS.

THERE'S A LOT MORE WE COULD GET THROUGH AND WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE YOU BACK TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, HANK GREENBERG, SHAREHOLDER AT GREENBERG TRAURIG, CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION'S REIMAGINE THE FUTURE OF AMERICA'S COURTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, DAN.

NOW SOME OF THAT CAN BE HANDLED BY THE STATE'S COURT SYSTEM MEANING THEY HAVE POWER TO CHANGE THEIR OWN RULES.

BUT THE LEGISLATURE CAN ALSO IMPACT COURTS THROUGH MORE FUNDING - AND LEGISLATION.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON BOTH.

BUT MOVING ON NOW TO THE START OF THE SCHOOL YEAR IN NEW YORK.

LAST WEEK WE TALKED ABOUT HOW TEACHERS FEEL ABOUT THE NEW SCHOOL YEAR.

AFTER ALL, A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE START OF COVID.

BUT FOR STUDENTS ANOTHER BIG CHANGE COULD BE ON THE WAY.

AND THAT'S A NEW SET OF GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS.

IN NEW YORK STUDENTS HAVE TO PASS AT LEAST FOUR REGENTS EXAMS TO GET A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA.

BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION IN RECENT YEARS ON WHETHER THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD FOR STUDENTS.

SO IN 2019 THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT FORMED A COMMISSION TO LOOK AT THE CURRENT GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS AND RECOMMEND ANY CHANGES.

AND THAT WORK IS FINALLY COMING TO AN END.

PRODUCER CATHERINE RAFFERTY HAS THAT STORY.

THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT'S BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION ON GRADUATION MEASURES IS TASKED WITH PROPOSING NEW HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS.

THE COMMISSION IS COMPOSED OF ABOUT 40 INDIVIDUALS REPRESENTING VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS, FROM TEACHERS, SCHOOL STAFF, PARENTS AND MORE.

THE BOARD OF REGENTS WAS SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER CHANGES IN 2021, BUT THE PANDEMIC DELAYED THE PROCESS.

THE COMMISSION HAS MET EACH MONTH SINCE THE FALL OF 2022 WITH EACH MEETING FOCUSED ON AN ELEMENT OF THE STATE'S CURRENT GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS.

IN JULY, THE COMMISSION MET IN THE ALBANY AREA FOR THREE DAYS TO DISCUSS, EVALUATE AND FINALIZE THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ON NEW GRADUATION MEASURES FOR APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD OF REGENTS.

ANGELIQUE JOHNSON DINGLE, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF P12 INSTRUCTIONAL SUPPORT IS A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION.

HAVE DISCUSSED EVERYTHING FROM COURSE AND CREDIT REQUIREMENTS TO LOOKING AT FINANCIAL LITERACY.

WE'VE TALKED A BIT ABOUT ETHNIC STUDIES, CULTURALLY RESPONSIVE SUSTAINING EDUCATION, AND, OF COURSE, THE ROLE OF REGENTS EXAMS.

GRADUATION RATES INCREASED DURING TWO YEARS WITHOUT REGENTS EXAMS DUE TO THE PANDEMIC.

ACCORDING TO NYSED DATA, THE 2018-2019 SCHOOL YEAR SAW AN 83% GRADUATION RATE FOR THE STATE, JUMPING TO AN 87% GRADUATION RATE IN 2022.

SAMANTHA BRUNO IS A RECENT GRADUATE OF SOUTH MANOR HIGH SCHOOL IN SUFFOLK COUNTY WHO SERVES ON THE COMMISSION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE STRUGGLE WITH THE DEMAND OF, SAY, LIKE THE REGENTS EXAMS AND THE GENERAL COURSE REQUIREMENTS, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE OF THE SPECIAL EDUCATION BACKGROUND HAVE A LOT OF STRUGGLES WITH THE CURRENT.

THE COMMISSION IS HOPING THAT CHANGES TO GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR GAPS IN ACHIEVEMENT, ESPECIALLY FOR STUDENTS OF COLOR, STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES, ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS, AND LOW-INCOME STUDENTS.

IN THE 2021-2022 SCHOOL YEAR THE GRADUATION RATE IN NEW YORK WAS 87% ACCORDING TO DATA FROM THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT.

THAT'S COMPARED TO 65% FOR ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS.

DR. SAGRARIO RUDECINDO-O'NEIL, ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT OF CURRICULUM AND STUDENT SUPPORT AT BEACON CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION.

SHE SAID COVID-19 FURTHER EXPOSED THE INEQUITIES THAT CONTINUE TO EXIST IN NEW YORK SCHOOLS.

I MYSELF AM A FORMER ELL STUDENT, SO ENGLISH IS NOT MY FIRST LANGUAGE.

IT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT COVID REVEALED -- NOT THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT INEQUITIES -- BUT IT BECAME MORE GLARING DURING COVID ENSURING THAT STUDENTS HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY, NUMBER ONE, THAT THEY NEED, THAT THEY HAVE THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO ACCESS THE INFORMATION.

PARTICULARLY, AS WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE NEW ARRIVALS THAT ARE COMING, ENSURING THAT SCHOOLS HAVE WHAT THEY NEED.

SO WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE.

THAT'S AN ONGOING CONVERSATION.

THE WORK OF THE COMMISSION INCLUDED HOSTING PARENT AND STUDENT ADVISORY MEETINGS AND GATHERING INPUT FROM ALL INTERESTED STAKEHOLDERS.

IT ALSO INCLUDED AN EXTENSIVE REVIEW OF RELEVANT RESEARCH, LITERATURE AND EXPERIENCE.

AT NYSED'S REQUEST, THE REGION 2 COMPREHENSIVE CENTER, ALSO CALLED AS R2CC FROM WEST ED, CONDUCTED A REVIEW WHICH FOUND ASSESSMENTS REQUIRED FOR GRADUATION SUCH AS HIGH SCHOOL EXIT EXAMS DID NOT CORRELATE POSITIVELY FOR COLLEGE OR CAREER OUTCOMES.

RATHER, THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THE BENEFIT OF HIGH SCHOOLS PROVIDING ALTERNATIVE PATHWAYS TO GRADUATION.

THIS COULD LESSEN THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING AN EXIT EXAM, ACCORDING TO THE REVIEW.

JAIME CIFFONE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF NEW YORK STATE UNITED TEACHERS, SAYS THAT ALTERNATIVE PATHWAYS TO GRADUATION CAN BE ANOTHER WAY FOR STUDENTS TO DEMONSTRATE THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

HIGH-STAKES TESTING USUALLY CREATES A STRESSFUL AND HIGH-PRESSURE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT FOR BOTH STUDENTS AND TEACHERS.

AND THAT CAN REALLY TAKE THE JOY OUT OF COMING TO SCHOOL EACH DAY FOR SOME STUDENTS.

SO WE KNOW THAT THE REGENTS IS A STANDARDIZED ASSESSMENT, AND THAT'S ONE WAY TO MEASURE STUDENT SUCCESS.

BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT STUDENTS DEMONSTRATE THEIR KNOWLEDGE IN VARIOUS WAYS.

AND SO HAVING SOME ALTERNATE PATHWAYS IN WHICH STUDENTS CAN SHOW MASTERY OF THE NEW YORK STATE LEARNING STANDARDS IS A REALLY GOOD THING TO BE DISCUSSING AND TO BE THINKING ABOUT.

SOME ARGUE, IF THERE IS NOT A CONSISTENT MEASURE OF STUDENT READINESS, THERE WILL BE A DECLINE IN NEW YORK'S EDUCATIONAL STANDARDS.

FINDINGS FROM A STUDY CONDUCTED BY THE EDUCATIONAL TRUST NEW YORK, A STATEWIDE EDUCATION POLICY AND ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION, SHOWED THE MAJORITY OF 2021 GRADUATES RELIED UPON AT LEAST ONE EXAM EXEMPTION TO GRADUATE; AND ALTHOUGH GRADUATION RATES FOR ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS, STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES AND STUDENTS FROM LOW-INCOME BACKGROUNDS HAVE INCREASED OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, THE 2021 INCREASES DISPROPORTIONATELY RELIED ON EXEMPTIONS, MAKING IT DIFFICULT TO KNOW IF GRADUATION RATE IMPROVEMENTS ACCURATELY REFLECT HOW WELL SCHOOLS ARE PREPARING STUDENTS.

CIFFONE SAYS THE ALTERNATIVES TO EXAMS WOULD HAVE TO MEASURE UP TO THE CURRENT STANDARDS.

OUR HIGH-STAKES TESTS, OUR REGENT EXAMS, OUR STATE ASSESSMENTS, THEY'RE RELYING TO THE NEXT GENERATION LEARNING STANDARDS.

IF WE MOVE TO MORE A PROJECT-BASED LEARNING OR EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING PATHWAY, WE COULD, AS EDUCATORS, DEVELOP RUBRICS AND HAVE THOSE RUBRICS BE ALIGNED TO THE STANDARDS JUST THE SAME AS THE HIGH-STAKES ASSESSMENTS.

THE COMMISSION IS EXPECTED TO PRESENT THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE REGENTS IN NOVEMBER ANY CHANGES WILL TAKE TIME DUE TO THE LARGE NUMBER OF STUDENTS AFFECTED.

JAY WORONA, THE GENERAL COUNSEL TO THE NEW YORK STATE SCHOOL BOARD ASSOCIATION SAYS THAT SCHOOL BOARDS WILL BE PART OF THE ROLLOUT OF POTENTIAL CHANGES.

I THINK THE POLICYMAKERS, IN SHORT, HAVE TO LOOK AT THE JOURNEY THAT WE'RE ON TO ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT ARE WE THERE YET?

ARE WE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?

DO WE NEED TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS AND CHANGES AND TAKE THE ADVICE AND COUNSEL OF THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF.

THEN, DEPENDING ON HOW GREAT THOSE CHANGES ARE, I THINK SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT WORK CUT OUT FOR THEMSELVES TO GET US THERE.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING BECAUSE IF IN FACT THE CHANGES ARE GOING TO REAP GREATER BENEFITS FOR STUDENTS, I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO WOULDN'T BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.

ANGELIQUE JOHNSON DINGLE, FROM THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, SAYS PUBLIC OUTREACH AND PROFESSIONAL LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES MAY BE EXTENDED BEFORE THE CHANGES ARE MADE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT DISTRICTS UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHANGES ARE.

WE NEED TO PROVIDE THEM WITH OPPORTUNITIES FOR PROFESSIONAL LEARNING, AND THEN WE LOOK TOWARDS IMPLEMENTATION.

AND AS WE SAID, THE BOARD OF REGENTS WILL CONSIDER THE NEW GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS IN NOVEMBER.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S NEW YORK NOW HAVE A GREAT WEEK - AND BE WELL.

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