>>> THE REALITY OF A POST-ROE OHIO.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, ANNA STAVER, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FROM THE "COLUMBUS DISPATCH," AND JOSEPH MAS OF THE OHIO HISPANIC COALITION.

IN THE WEEKS DECISION TO OVERTURN ROE v. WADE AND ELIMINATE THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION, OHIO IS ALREADY FEELING THE IMPACTS.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD SAYS IT HAS TURNED AWAY HUNDREDS OF WOMEN IN OHIO SEEKING ABORTIONS BECAUSE THEY WERE BEYOND THE STATE'S NEW LAW THAT BARS ABORTION AFTER THE DETECTION OF CARDIAC ACTIVITY.

SOME LOCAL PROSECUTORS SAY THEY WILL NOT PROSECUTE DOCTORS WHO PERFORM ABORTIONS.

AND THE ACLU AND ABORTION PROVIDERS ARE SUING, SAYING THE OHIO CONSTITUTION PROTECTS THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.

JUST TAKING A BIG PICTURE HERE, STEPPING BACK, WE KIND OF KNEW THIS WAS COMING BECAUSE OF THE LEAK >> YEAH.

>> BUT IT CAME AND IT WAS KIND OF STUNNING.

AND NOW WE'RE GETTING ADJUSTED TO IT AND THERE'S BIG CHANGES IN OHIO.

>> YEAH.

THE LANDSCAPE IS FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED.

WE WENT FROM ABORTIONS TO ABOUT 22 WEEKS GESTATION DEPENDING.

WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND ABOUT THAT IS A WOMAN BECOMES PREGNANT THE FIRST DAY OF HER LAST PERIOD.

SO WHEN YOU ARE FULLY INTO YOUR CYCLE, TYPICALLY WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR PERIOD, YOU ARE ALSO FOUR WEEKS PREGNANT.

SO A LOT OF WOMEN LIKE MYSELF, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT WAIT A COUPLE DAYS, YOU MIGHT WAIT A WEEK.

AT THAT POINT YOU MAYBE IN FIVE OR SIX DAYS CAN MAKE THIS CHOICE.

BY THE TIME YOU KNOW YOU'RE PREGNANT, YOU'RE RIGHT UP AGAINST THE DEADLINE.

>> PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS HOPING -- THEY ARE PERFORMING ABORTIONS, BUT VERY FEW BECAUSE OF THAT SIX-WEEK THING.

THE LAWSUIT.

THE ACLU AND ABORTION PROVIDERS WANTED WANT TO THE CARDIAC ACTIVITY LAW ON HOLD RIGHT AWAY, BUT THE STATE SUPREME COURT HAS DENIED THE EMERGENCY STAY.

DOES THAT MEAN THE LIKELIHOOD OF THEM WINNING IN THIS CASE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT IS NOT GOOD?

>> NO, NOT NECESSARILY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY MAY GIVE THE COURT AN OPPORTUNITY, PARTICULARLY THE MODERATES, THE MODERATE END OF THE COURT TO LOOK AT OTHER ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS A HEARTBEAT?

THAT SOUNDS VERY BAD AND I'M SORRY TO SAY IT THIS WAY, BUT WHAT IS A HEART?

AS A MASS OF TISSUES AT THIS STAGE A HEART?

>> THE CLINICS WHO ARE SUING POINT TO AN AMENDMENT PASSED IN 2011 THAT SAYS NO FEDERAL, STATE, OR LOCAL RULES SHALL PROHIBIT THE PURCHASE OR SALE OF HEALTH CARE OR HEALTH INSURANCE.

THIS IS THE LAW AIMED AT OBAMACARE BY CONSERVATIVES, NOW IS BEING USED AGAINST THEM.

DOES THE SALE OF HEALTH CARE INCLUDE ABORTION?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

MIKE MENTIONED I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A LAWYERFUL EMPLOYMENT ACT BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FIGHTING AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL ABOUT WHAT ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS MEANS.

BUT I WILL DISAGREE A BIT WITH JOE, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS A LAW DEGREE.

ONE KEY WHY THEY THREW IT OUT IN THE OHIO SUPREME COURT IS THEY WANTED A DECLARATORY JUDGMENT.

O'CONNOR IS CLEAR ON THE RECORD.

THEY BASICALLY SAY NO, YOU GOT TO START OUT AT THE LOCAL TRIAL COURT COMMON PLEAS, GO THROUGH THE APPEALS COURT BEFORE THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG THING FOR THE LAWYER BUSINESS.

I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

IN CINCINNATI THIS PAST WEEK, THEY PASSED AN ORDINANCE SAYING ALL MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES THERE WILL GET ESSENCE FREE ABORTIONS AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE, TRAVEL EXPENSES, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE LITIGATED BECAUSE SUPPOSEDLY THERE'S STATE LAWS THAT WOULD PROHIBIT PUBLIC FUNDING FOR THAT.

FOR JOE'S PROFESSION, IT'S GOING TO BE A BUSY TIME.

>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> WELL, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK THAT PERRY DIDN'T NEED TO DISAGREE WITH ME BECAUSE I HAPPEN TO BE IN AGREEMENT WITH HIM CONCERNING DECLARATORY JUDGMENT.

I THINK THAT'S AN STORIED THING TO EXPECT AND SOMETHING AS HOT AS THIS RIGHT NOW, BUT I STAND BY MY ANALYSIS THAT GIVING IT MORE TIME, WE MAY GET A CHANCE AT THIS.

THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

>> KENTUCKY THE LAW IS ON HOLD BECAUSE OF A COURT RULING.

REMEMBER FRANKLIN COUNTY'S PROSECUTORS, THE CITY ATTORNEY AND COLUMBUS THEY DON'T DEAL WITH THESE CASES TOO MUCH.

HE SAID HE WOULDN'T PROSECUTE THEM.

WHAT DOES THAT DO?

ANOTHER WRINKLE IN THIS ISSUE?

>> KEEP IN MIND THE SIX WEEKS BAN, THE ONLY CRIMINAL PENALTIES ARE ON PROVIDERS FOR ABORTION.

SO PEOPLE WHO SEEK WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER AN ILLEGAL ABORTION, THERE ARE NO PENALTIES.

THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR CONTEXT FOR THESE PROVIDERS.

IT WOULD BE IN THE PLACES WHERE THESE CLINICS ARE LOCATED OR PERHAPS IF AN O.B.

WERE TO DO SOMETHING.

THAT IS A REALLY DIFFICULT QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THESE PROVIDERS ARE LOOKING TO LOSE THEIR LICENSE.

MOST CLINICS ARE SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY IN THAT SPACE.

BUT THE LARGER QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU DO WITH OUT-OF-STATE PROVIDERS?

I THINK THAT'S A QUESTION WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF, LIKE, NOT ONLY CROSSING LINES, BUT PERHAPS STEPPING INTO THIS AREA OF TELEHEALTH ACROSS STATE LINES.

>> IT'S A WHOLE NEW WEB OF INTRIGUE s YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PROSECUTION, BUT NO MEDICAL DOCTOR WANTS TO LOSE THEIR LICENSE AND ABILITY TO EARN A LIVING.

>> DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PUTTING THIS ON THE BALLOT, THEY TEND TO FIGHT A LITTLE.

THIS SHOULD GO ON THE BALLOT.

WE'LL DO IT, BUT IT'S VAGUE AS TO WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

WHO WOULD GO FIRST HAD TO PUT ON THE BALLOT?

ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS TRYING TO CODIFY THE ILLEGALITY OF ABORTION IN THE CONSTITUTION, OR WILL IT BE RIGHTS SUPPORTERS WHO WANT TO CODIFY ROE OR SOMETHING SIMILAR?

>> OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE RUN OUT OF TIME, IT'S TOO LATE TO GET ANYTHING ON THE 2022 BALLOT.

AND I'M NOT SURE THEY WANT TO HAVE IT ON THE 2023 BALLOT.

SO THEY MIGHT AIM TO 2024 PRESIDENTIAL BIGGER TURNOUT.

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE ISSUE GOING TO BE ABOUT?

IS IT JUST ABORTIONS UP TO 12 OR 15 WEEKS, ABORTIONS AT ANY TIME, NO ABORTIONS, ABORTIONS AT CONCEPTION?

THERE'S LOTS OF SHADES OF GRAY ASK IT'S UNCLEAR WHO'S GOING TO GO FOR WHAT AND WHICH HAS THE BEST CHANCE OF PASSAGE.

>> SHE SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, A LONG ROAD, IT'S EXPENSIVE.

IT'S GOING TO BE A NASTY CAMPAIGN.

ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF AMENDMENT SHE WOULD SUPPORT?

>> NOT AS YET.

AND I AGREE, I THINK THE DEVIL IS GOING TO BE IN THE DETAILS OF THIS.

YOU LOOK AT POLLING, A MAJORITY OF OHIOANS SUPPORT SOME FORM OF ABORTION, BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO STATISTICS, THAT'S WHERE YOU SORT OF LOSE FOLKS, RIGHT?

I THINK PERSONALLY TLSHLD BE AN EXEMPTION FOR RAPE, INCEST.

24 WEEKS, 30 WEEKS, LIKE, NO LIMIT ON ABORTION, I DON'T THINK THAT CAN PASS.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH, LIKE, ABORTION ACCESS FOLKS WANT TO COMPROMISE ON, SAY, IDEOLOGICAL PURITY.

>> ACTUALLY, I GAVE THIS ANSWER A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHEN I WAS HERE BEFORE.

I THINK IT WILL BE THE ROE v. WADE, THE ORIGINAL DECISION CUTTING IT UP INT THIRD TRIMESTER, THEN MAYBE NOT.

>> THAT MAKES IT MORE COMPLICATED ON A BALLOT ISSUE, AND THAT ALSO CAN BE -- >> BUT IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

>> YES.

ALL RIGHT.

THE SUPREME COURT RULED STATES CANNOT EXCLUDE RELIGIOUS SCHOOL IF THEY PAY TUITION TO OTHER SCHOOLS.

IT SET A NATIONAL PRECEDENT.

OHIO ALREADY HAS A SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM AND ALREADY SENDS MONEY TO RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FOR STUDENTS WHO WOULD OTHERWISE GO TO A FAILING PUBLIC SCHOOL.

SCHOOL CHOICE ADVOCATES AND RELIGIOUS SCHOOL SUPPORTERS HOPE OHIO EXPANDS THE PROGRAM SO THAT ANY STUDENT CAN USE STATE MONEY TO ATTEND A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

TERRY, IF THE STATE'S GOING TO PAY, CAN THEY EXCLUDE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS?

>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR ONE, YOU GOT TO DO FOR ALL.

PEOPLE FORGET THAT OHIO'S HAD A LONG, LONG HISTORY, MAYBE EVEN BEFORE ANNA WAS BORN GOING BACK TO GOVERNOR JIM RHODES AND ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BROWN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS HISTORICALLY HAVE SUPPORTED DOING AS MUCH AS IS ALLOWED.

OHIO'S HAD BIG VICTORIES BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT ALLOWING AND APPROVING CERTAIN THINGS.

SO I THINK THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO TRY AND DO MORE AND IN GENERAL LIKE WITH THE UNIVERSITIES WERE NOTRE DAME STUDENTS CAN GET FEDERAL AID, THE PRINCIPLE IS THAT YOU'RE HELPING THE PARENTS, YOU'RE HELPING THE KIDS.

IT ISN'T NECESSARILY GONE TO THE SCHOOL AND THEIR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES.

>> AND SUPPORTERS OF THE BACKPACK BILL, WHICH IS WHAT WOULD ALLOW ANY FAMILY OF ANY INCOME BRACKET IN ANY SCHOOL AREA TO GET THESE VOUCHERS FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

>> THEY MAY SEND OUT PRESS RELEASES COUNTINGS THIS AS A VICTORY, BUT KEEP IN MIND THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF THAT IS FUNDING, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT A STATEWIDE PROGRAM LIKE THIS, YOU GIVE A $6,000 VOUCHER, IT MAY BE $1,000 PER STUDENT.

NOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE INSTEAD OF SENDING $1,000 TO ONE, YOU GOT TO SEND $6,000 TO MY KID'S PRIVATE SCHOOL AND THAT'S GOING TO ADD UP QUICKLY.

THE BACKPACK BILL NEVER HAD A FISCAL NOTE ATTACHED TO IT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE THING THAT STOPS PEOPLE IN THEIR TRACKS IF IT HAS A $1 BILLION, $2 MILLION -- >> JOE, IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

>> IT DEPENDS ON HOW FAR YOU GO.

EVER SINCE I CAME IN 1919, I WENT TO PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS.

TERRY IS CORRECT THAT BACK THEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WERE ON THE SAME PAGE.

THE RULES WERE CLEAR AND IT WAS QUITE SIMPLE.

YOU COULD PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION, TEXTBOOKS, BUT YOU COULDN'T PROVIDE MONEY IF IT WAS GOING TO LEAD TO NON-SECULAR EDUCATION.

THINGS GOT CLOUDY.

AND THEN IN THE MORE MODERN ERA, IN FACT, A MORE CONSERVATIVE ERA, PEOPLE ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST THE SECULARIZATION OF SOCIETY IN GENERAL AND ARE ABLE TO GET DECISIONS PUSHED THROUGH THE SUPREME COURT.

>> TERRY, IS IT FAIR FOR -- LET'S LOOK AT UPPER ARLINGTON.

AFFLUENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, EXCELLENT SUBURBS, VERY GOOD SCHOOL DISTRICT, AN AFFLUENT FAMILY CHOOSES TO SEND THEIR CHILD TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL, RELIGIOUS PRIVATE SCHOOL OR NOT.

SHOULD THE STATE BE KICKING IN TO HELP THAT FAMILY?

>> IF YOU'RE A PARENT IN UPPER ARLINGTON AND YOU'RE SENDING YOUR KIDS TO BISHOP WATERSON HIGH SCHOOL, MY HOUSE, I'M PAYING A HUGE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAXES AND I'M AT LEAST GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF IT BACK, AND I'M ALSO SAVING THE LOCAL SCHOOLS MONEY BECAUSE I'M PAYING A MUCH BIGGER AMOUNT TO SEND MY KID TO WATERSON HIGH SCHOOL AS THAT EXAMPLE.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ARGUMENTS WHAT IS FAIR OR UNFAIR, BUT IT'S PART OF THE REALITY, SO PUBLIC EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, EDUCATION'S EXPENSIVE IN GENERAL.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT AN ALTERNATE WAY OF FUNDING THIS.

A LONG TIME AGO THERE WAS TALK OF INCREASING THE SALES TAX TO PAY FOR EDUCATION.

HOW ABOUT A PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHER TAX THAT WE COULD PUT ON THE BALLOT OR ON THE SALES TAX OR WHATEVER?

>> YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY, I THINK MY STATE SENATOR ANDREW RENNER HAD A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IDEA THAT HE WAS FLOATING A DECADE AGO, I WANT TO SAY, OR A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

HE WAS WORKING ON AN IDEA TO RETHINK THE WAY LOCAL PROPERTIES GET ALLOCATED.

YOU KNOW, THEY SORT OF SAY, YOU KNOW, ON BACKGROUND THAT IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT CAPTURING SOME OF THOSE LOCAL DOLLARS IF YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE THE MONEY WORK FOR A STATEWIDE BACKPACK PROGRAM.

>> THE DARK UNDERSIDE OF THIS WHOLE THING, LET'S NOT GERGT MUCH OF THE DISCUSSION CONCERNING VOUCHERS STARTED 30 YEARS AGO AS A FIGHT AGAINST THE UNIONS, AGAINST THE TEACHERS UNIONS AND TRYING TO DECREASE THE IMPACT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

TERRY IS CORRECT.

BY SENDING YOUR KID TO WATERTON, YOU'RE GOING TO BE TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM WHATEVER PUBLIC SCHOOL MIGHT BE THERE.

>> YOU'RE ALSO SAVING THEM MONEY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO EDUCATE AND HAVE THE SPACE FOR THAT KID THAT WOULD BE GOING TO UPPER ARLINGTON HIGH SCHOOL.

>> THE ARGUMENT IS THERE.

>> MORE CHOICE WOULD HELP IMPROVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPETE AGAINST CHARTER SCHOOLS AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS IF THEY'RE LOSING STUDENTS, BUT THAT HASN'T HAPPENED TO DATE.

IF YOU HAVE TRIED TO BUY OR SELL A HOUSE OR RENT AN APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW THE STORY, HOUSING PRICES AND RENTS HAVE RISEN FAST OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS AND THEY CONTINUE TO RISE.

IT'S ECONOMIC AT ITS MOST SIMPLE.

THE SUPPLY IS LOW WHILE DEMAND IS GROWING.

COLUMBUS LEADERS SAY IT HAS REACHED A CRISIS POINT.

>> WE'RE CREATING JOBS, BUT WE'RE NOT BUILDING ENOUGH HOUSING.

OUR HOUSING CREATION ISN'T KEEPING UP WITH OUR JOB CREATION, AND WE ARE AT A PIVOTAL MOMENT.

>> SO JOE, THE MAYOR SAYS HOUSING IS INFRASTRUCTURE JUST LIKE WATER LINES AND SEWER LINES.

IS HE RIGHT?

>> HE IS RIGHT.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK COLUMBUS IS ONE OF THOSE CITIES THAT I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, I GUESS.

LOTS OF PLACES DO.

BUT HERE, I WENT BACK TO MY TRAINING IN ECONOMICS AND I LOOKED TO SEE ABOUT THE CHEAPEST APARTMENT THAT YOU CAN GET FOR THE MIDDLE INCOME, BETWEEN $1,000 AND $1,100 A MONTH.

THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A DISPOSAL INCOME AFTER TAXED INCOME OF $39,000 A YEAR, OR $47,520 BEFORE TAXES.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF CONTROL.

AND I THINK IT'S A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

I THINK IT'S NOT ENOUGH, BUT IT'S SOMETHING.

>> USUALLY ONE PACKAGE IS FOR INTANGIBLE THINGS, SEWER PLANTS, WATER LINES, ROADS, BRIDGES.

THIS MONEY IS GOING TO GO -- WE DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY, BUT SUBSIDIES FOR LOW-INCOME FOLKS TO HELP WITH THEIR RENT TO INCENTIVIZE TO BUILD HOUSING.

IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?

>> MY QUESTION WOULD BE YOU DID $50 MILLION BUT YOU HAVEN'T EXPLAINED WHERE THE FIRST $50 MILLION WE WANT.

WHAT DID IT ACHIEVE, WHAT WAS THE COST PER UNIT BEFORE YOU JUMP INTO ANOTHER $200 MILLION.

>> IT WAS IN THE LAST PACKAGE.

>> BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN RESULTS TANGIBLE OUT OF THAT.

NUMBER TWO, WE OUGHT TO ASK THE MAYOR, WHEN THE COLUMBUS GO FOR AN INCREASE IN TAXES, THAT FACTORS INTO COSTS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY TO HOMEOWNERS.

THERE'S ALSO ZONING, BESIDES COLUMBUS THERE'S QUESTIONS ON THE SUBURBS, WHAT THEY LIMIT.

>> ANNA, THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM JUST FOR COLUMBUS.

THIS IS FOR ALL OF OHIO, REALLY, AROUND THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN BUILDING HOUSING.

YOU SEE THESE APARTMENT BUILDINGS GOING UP, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH FOR HOW WE'RE GROWING.

>> NO, IT'S REALLY A SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUE.

I LIVE SOUTH OF DELAWARE PROPER.

I RUN AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE.

A HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS HAS BEEN -- KEEP IN MIND EVEN SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS, LIKE, SENATOR BILL BLESSING HAS INTRODUCED A BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT DEALS WITH BULK BUYING.

THIS IS WHERE INVESTORS COME IN AND BUY 100, 200, 300 HOUSES AT ONCE, AND THEN THEY CONVERT THEM INTO RENTALS FOR PROFIT AND IT MAKES IT HARDER TO BUY YOUR FIRST HOME.

LIKE, I THINK THERE ARE ARGUMENTS ON ALL SIDES OF THIS ISSUE THAT IT'S GETTING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO BUY THAT FIRST HOUSE, TO GET THAT FIRST LEG UP WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING WEALTH.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS HAVING A CONVERSATION ON HOW DO WE FIX THAT.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> THIS ISN'T THE FIRST PLACE THE WORKPLACE THAT IS EXPERIMENTING WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

MASSACHUSETTS, IN AN TUKTS IS HAVING A TERRIBLE TIME TRYING TO FIND HOUSING FOR PEOPLE THAT WORK ON THE ISLAND.

YOU COULD PICK ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND THERE'S SIMILAR PROGRAMS OR AT LEAST DISCUSSIONS TO SEE IF THIS MIGHT WORK.

>> THAT IS ONE WAY TO PREVENT SPRAWL IS TO HAVE THE OCEAN SURROUND YOU, YOU KNOW.

>> IN NANTUCKET?

YEAH.

>> THE MARKET IS NOT BUILDING ENOUGH AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

SO WHAT IS GOVERNMENT'S ROLLING IN TRYING TO DO THAT?

>> I THINK FIRST AND FOREMOST CITY HALL OUGHT TO LOOK AT THE RULES AND REGULATIONS, LOT SIZES, OTHER TYPES OF THINGS AND SEE IF YOU CAN CHASE COSTS THAT WAY.

BUT EVERY TIME THE CITY GIVES OUT ANOTHER TAX ABATEMENT LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN EASTON, THAT IS PART OF THE HOUSING COSTS.

GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO LOOK BIGGER THAN PASS A BOND ISSUE AND PASS OUT MORE MONEY TO FAVOR DEVELOPERS OUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THE MAYOR WANTS SUBURBS TO DO, YOU MENTIONED YOU LIVE IN A SUBURB, THEY WANT TO LOOSEN UP ZOJOJI SO THERE'S MORE HIGH-DENTIST BUILDINGS.

I LIVE IN A SUBURB OF COLUMBUS AND MY NEIGHBORS DON'T WANT HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT THERE HAS TO BE GIVE SOMEWHERE.

>> YEAH.

IRONICALLY MY HUSBAND IS ON THE DELAWARE PLANNING COMMISSION SO HE SEES THIS ALL THE TIME.

I WILL TELL YOU, HE COMES BACK WITH STORIES OF BEING SCREAMED AT WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT HIGH-RISE APARTMENTS, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT DUPLEXES.

IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

HE WAS TALKING TO THE DELAWARE PLANNING FOLKS AND THEY WERE, LIKE, LOOK, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE WANTS NATION BIG HOUSES WITH THE POOLS AND THE SIDEWALKS NEXT TO THEM, BUT EVENTUALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS PRIORITIZING MAYBE UNAFFORDABLE HOUSING.

>> JOE, WILL THE FOLKS GO FOR THESE ZONING CHANGES THAT WILL ALLOW TALLER BUILDINGS AS YOU HIT SOUTH?

>> WHO KNOWS?

THE ONLY THING -- WE HAVE THE SAME SITUATION GOING ON IN WORTHINGTON RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE IN FEDERAL COURT OVER THE HIGH-RISES.

>> THE RESIDENTS LOST IN TRYING TO STOP A BIG HIGHER DENSITY ACROSS A BARCELONA RESTAURANT.

THERE'S TENSION AND PEOPLE IN THE 1960s WHEN THE SOLUTION WAS TO PACK MORE PEOPLE IN HIGH-RISES IN CHICAGO AND OTHER BIG CITIES, AND EVENTUALLY THEY HAD TO TEAR THEM DOWN BECAUSE IT FAILED.

>> THAT WAS ON MY LIST OF QUESTIONS.

WE GOT TO GET TO OUR FOURTH TOPIC.

LAST WEEK INTEL INDEFINITELY DELAYED A GROUNDBREAKING CEREMONY FOR ITS $20 BILLION SEMICONDUCTOR FACTORY IN ALBANY.

THEY THREATENED TO BUILD THEIR FACTORIES IN EUROPE, NOT OHIO, BECAUSE CONGRESS HASN'T PASSED THE $52 BILLION SUBSIDY FOR CHIP MANUFACTURERS.

THE COMPANY SAYS THEY ARE A GO, BUT OTHERS THEY PROMISED THEY WOULD NEED THAT.

>> I CAN'T BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN OUR INVESTMENT PROFILE WITHOUT HELP, WITHOUT INCENTIVES.

I'LL HAVE TO BE IN EUROPE.

THE ECONOMICS WILL FORCE ME TO DO THAT.

THAT'LL BE A SHAME THAT I'D BE SMALLER AND AT THE END OF THE DECADE I'D HAVE INVESTED $20 BILLION IN OHIO INSTEAD OF $100 BILLION.

THAT'S JUST THE TRAVESTY FOR U.S. EXCESSIVENESS.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE PLAYING HARDBALL, BUT IT'S A GAME OF CHICKEN INTEL WITH CONGRESS.

IS IT GOING TO WORK?

>> WELL, CONGRESS, WHEN I TALKED TO MIKE CARRIE, HE MADE CLEAR NANCY PELOSI APPOINTED CONFERENCE COMMITTEE OF 81 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, AND THE SENATE BISHOPLY BOTH SHARED BROWN IN PARKING LOT FOR FOR THIS BILL.

WHEN IT WAS PASSED, IT WAS ONLY 37 PAGES.

BY THE TIME THE HOUSE GOT DONE, THEY BROUGHT IT DO 3,000 PAGES LOADED UP WITH ALL KINDS OF PORK AND GREEN ENERGY TYPES OF THINGS.

SO CLEARLY I WOULD ENCOURAGE JOYCE BEATTY TO PUT A CALL IN TO NANCY PELOSI AND GET THIS DONE BECAUSE A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE OF 81 HOUSE MEMBERS IS NOT GOING TO GET ANYTHING DONE.

>> ARE FOLKS AT THE STATE HOUSE WORRIED ABOUT THE DELAY IN THE GROUNDBREAKING AND NOW THIS THREAT THAT THEY'LL GO TO GERMANY?

>> I THINK THEY'RE PUTTING ON A BRAVE FACE.

BUT KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A HUGE WIN FOR THE GOVERNOR.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M SURE IS GOING TO APPEAR IN EVERY CAMPAIGN AD HEADING INTO NOVEMBER, LIKE, THEY ABSOLUTELY WANT TO KEEP THIS PLANT.

THEY WANT TO KEEP THE PROMISE OF MORE PLANTS.

AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY IN THE REGION IS PROBABLY CALLING THEIR OFFICIALS, LIKE, HE SAID, CALLING JOYCE BEATTY AND SAY WE REALLY NEED TO DO THIS.

>> WE NEED TO CALL MITCH McCONNELL BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE HOLDING IT UP.

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

>> TERRY -- >> THE HOUSE AND THEIR STUPID AMENDMENTS.

>> I DISAGREE.

MITCH McCONNELL IS HOLDING IT UP BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT THE DEMOCRATS TO PUT INTO RECONCILIATION IN THE BUDGET BILL DEMOCRATIC PROJECTS.

>> THE SENATE PASSED THE BILL BY A BIG MARGIN.

IT'S THE HOUSE LOADING IT DOWN.

>> MY QUESTION TO YOU, TERRY, INTEL STOCK IS DOWN 30% SINCE JANUARY.

OTHER CHIP PROCESSORS STOCK ARE DOWN 30% TO 40%.

SHOULD FEDERAL TAXPAYERS BE SUBSIDIZING AN INDUSTRY WALL STREET DOESN'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN?

>> IF THE WHOLE WORLD WAS THE UNITED STATES, THE ANSWER IS NO.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS CHINA, TAIWAN, JAPAN, EUROPE PEOPLE ARE PROVIDING EVEN BIGGER SUBSIDIES THAN THIS.

SO IT'S A PROBLEM OF A WORLD ECONOMY.

HOW DO WE COMPETE AND HOW DO WE GET THIS BACK IN THE UNITED STATES FOR SUPPLY CHAIN PURPOSES AND NATIONAL DEFENSE MORE IMPORTANTLY?

>> JOE, IS THIS A GOOD USE OF TAXPAYER MONEY?

>> I THINK IT IS A GOOD USE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK JUST ECONOMICS THROWS YOU INTO THE SEDUCTION OF GOVERNMENT TRYING TO AFFECT PRODUCTION.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN IN HISTORY, AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

>> THAT'S WHY THE STATE IS CHIPPING IN $2 BILLION AT LEAST.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, WHAT ARE THE RULES, HOW MUCH CAN WE RECOUP IF ULTIMATELY THEY DON'T GO FORWARD HERE?

>> IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

THINK OF THE COMPANY FOXCONN UP IN WISCONSIN, ALL THOSE PROMISES, HUGE CELEBRATIONS, AND DIDN'T REALLY HAPPEN AS OFFICIALS HAD PREDICTED.

SO IT CAN HAPPEN.

>> TIME NOW FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

JOE MASS, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> WHALEY HAS PROPOSED PUTTING A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ON THE OHIO BALLOT AS EARLY AS 2023 LIKE TERRY SAID TO PROTECT A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE, AN EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT INCLUDING A RIGHT TO PRIVACY FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF THE STATE AS WELL AS CHOICE.

THAT MIGHT BE A MORE RELEVANT OPTION.

>> TERRY?

>> WHERE DO YOU WANT, YOU MISSED UCLA AND USC COMING INTO THE BIG TEN.

IT'S GOING TO BE HUGE.

YES, IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY AND THE GREED, BUT THE PRESTIGE OF USC, UCLA IS HUGE.

IT BRINGS IN THAT L.A. MARKET.

IT BRINGS THE WEST COAST AND THE MIDWEST CLOSER TOGETHER.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A WIN-WIN.

>> ACADEMICS DRIVING THESE DECISIONS.

>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY, SURE.

>> I MIGHT HAVE TO DISAGREE ON THE BENEFITS OF REVERTING TO BIG TEN.

I'M HEARING PROBABLY LESS THAN 10% OF REGISTERED VOTERS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO CAST BALLOTS, SO THIS IS MY PUSH OUT THE DOOR.

SO GET YOUR PURSE, GET YOUR I.D., GET DOWN TO YOUR BALLOT PLACE AND GO VOTE.

>> THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE DISAPPOINTED BY THE LOSS OF THE ORIGINAL BIG TEN, BE PATIENT.

WHEN WE HAVE THESE HUGE MEGA CONFERENCES, WE'LL HAVE THE BIG TEN DIVISION, WHICH WILL HAVE TEN TEAMS AND WE'LL BACK "B" BACK TO THE OLD DAYS.

ON JULY 13th, WOSU AND THE COLUMBUS METROPOLITAN CLUB WILL LAUNCH A SERIES CALLED "DEMOCRACY IN CRISIS."

WE'LL TACKLE SOME OF THE TOUGHEST ISSUES FACING OUR COUNTRY.

KICKING OFF WITH A DISCUSSION WITH MICHAEL TOMASKY AND AUTHOR OF THE BOOK "IF WE CAN KEEP IT."

I'LL MODERATE THE EVENT AND YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION AND FIND OUT HOW TO REGISTER TO ATTEND THE JULY 13th PROGRAM AT WOSU.ORG/EVENTS.

SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE, ON FACEBOOK.

WATCH EVERY EPISODE ON DEMAND AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG OR THROUGH THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

-- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY