[MUSIC] >> Bonnie Erbe: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY," A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM BUT DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

THIS WEEK OF A WOMAN THOUGHT LEADER IS DEBBIE ALLEN.

ALLEN RECENTLY MADE HISTORY, BECOMING THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO WIN THE ACADEMY OF TELEVISION ARTS AND SCIENCES' PRESTIGIOUS GOVERNOR'S AWARD.

SHE RECEIVED THE AWARD AT THE 73RD ANNUAL EMMY AWARD CEREMONY FOR HER LIFETIME OF WORK AND SERVICE AND OUTSTANDING ACHIEVEMENT.

IN ACCEPTING THE AWARD, SHE SAID IT TOOK COURAGE TO BE THE ONLY WOMAN IN THE ROOM MOST OF THE TIME.

SHE CALLED ON WOMEN FROM TEXAS TO AFGHANISTAN TO TELL THEIR STORIES, CLAIM THEIR VOICES AND CLAIM THEIR POWER.

WE SPOKE WITH DEBBIE ALLEN IN 2016 WHEN SHE WAS IN WASHINGTON, DC, ADDRESSING SOCIAL JUSTICE THROUGH ART AND DANCE, FREEZE FRAME STOP THE MADNESS WAS A THEATRICAL PRODUCTION BY AND STARRING ALLEN ABOUT HOW AFRICAN AMERICAN LIVES INTERTWINED WITH POLICE FORCES.

IT'S ALL STILL RELEVANT TODAY.

SO WE'RE PLEASED TO BRING YOU THAT STORY AND MORE FROM OUR ONE ON ONE INTERVIEW.

>> Debbie Allen: I THINK THE ARTICLE VERY IMPORTANT IN FURTHERING THE CONVERSATION OF SOCIAL JUSTICE.

WHEN I FIRST CAME TO LA TO DO "FAME", THE VIOLENCE THAT WAS HAPPENING WITH GANGS AND THE POLICE WAS JUST SOMETHING I JUST COULD NOT GET DESENSITIZED TO END IT WAS ALWAYS UPSET EVERY TIME I WOULD READ IN THE PAPER AN INNOCENT CHILD IS KILLED IN A CROSSFIRE, SOME CHILD CHAT BECAUSE OF MISTAKEN IDENTITY, OR POLICE MAN MURDERED -- CAMINO, JUST TOO MUCH.

>> Bonnie Erbe: ACTRESS, DANCER, DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER DEBBIE ALLEN IS DEBUTING ANOTHER THEATRICAL NARRATIVE FREEZE FRAME AT THE KENNEDY CENTER THIS FALL.

SHE HOPES THE PLAY WILL BRING ATTENTION TO GUN VIOLENCE AND ITS EFFECT IN THE COMMUNITY THROUGH DANCE.

>> Debbie Allen: FREEZE-FRAME STOP THE MADNESS IS THE FUSION OF EVERY ART THAT I HAVE MASTERED AND INVOLVED WITH.

IT IS SINEMA, IT STANDS, IT'S MUSIC, IT IS DRAMA, IT IS ART.

I WAS GOING TO MAKE IT A MOVIE, BUT THEN I GOT BUSY DOING "FAME" AND THE MOVIE AMISTAD AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, SWEET CHARITY.

I DID A LOT OF THINGS IN BETWEEN.

BUT IT STAYED WITH ME.

AND I MADE FRIENDS WITH TOMMY THE CLOWN WHO CREATED A WHOLE STYLE OF DANCING, FIGHT DANCING, bRUMPINGbBATTLING AND I CAME UP WITH THIS NARRATIVE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: HOW DID YOU CREATE THE MOODS?

AND HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH ALL OF THE STORIES IN THE SHOW?

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING FOR ME.

I ACTUALLY SPENT A LOT OF TIME DOING RESEARCH.

I SAT WITH A LOT OF MOTHERS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR CHILDREN.

I SAT WITH GANG MEMBERS WHO WERE VERY VIOLENT PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED TO TELL ME THEIR TRUE STORIES.

I SPENT TIME TALKING WITH POLICE OFFICERS TO GET THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT THEY DO, HOW THEY FEEL.

I SPENT SO MUCH TIME DOING RESEARCH, AND THEN I MADE A DECISION ON WHAT STORIES I THOUGHT WOULD FIT, WHAT MADE SENSE, WHO WOULD BE IN THIS PICTURE.

SO IT STARTS OFF WITH THE ACTUAL HORRIFIC MURDER OF A STORE OWNER AND A GANG MEMBER FLEEING THE POLICE, THE POLICE ARE TRYING TO FIND HIM AND THEN THEY COME UP ON A PARTY OF A LOT OF YOUNG BLACK KIDS AND THERE WAS ANOTHER GUY IS WEARING A BLUE SHIRT, LIKE THE SUSPECT, AND THEY ARE READY TO TAKE HIM OUT BECAUSE THEY THINK HE IS THE ONE, AND IS NOT HIM.

THAT'S WHEN THE ACTION STOPS, AND WE GO BACK AND FIND OUT, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE IN THIS PICTURE?

WHOSE LIVES ARE GETTING READY TO CHANGE FOREVER?

AND I PLAY TWO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE SHOW.

I PLAY THE WIFE OF THE BISHOP WHO HAS THE BIGGEST CHURCH IN THE COUNTRY, BIGGEST BAPTIST CHURCH.

HIS SON, OUR SON, DAVID, IS ONE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO THE STORY IS ABOUT.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE A MINISTER.

HE WANTS TO USE HIS MUSIC TO -- IN RAP TO CONNECT WITH HIS COMMUNITY AND THAT WAY, TO HIS OWN WAY OF PREACHING AND I PLAY LATINA GRANDMOTHER, ROSANNA, WHO IS A GANG MEMBER HERSELF.

AND I THINK IT'S AN INCREDIBLE PIECE.

IT'S A GREAT ENTERTAINMENT AT THE SAME TIME.

THERE IS A GREAT GOSPEL SCENE.

THERE IS A SONG I WROTE CALLED JESUS IS ON THE LINE.

THERE'S A WONDERFUL HIP-HOP SCENE WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT THIS GUY IS STILL BLUE, THERE'S A GREAT, HOT NUMBER WITH THE GIRLS CALLED DANCING SNACK.

THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT ENTERTAINMENT IN THE MIDST OF SOMETHING THAT IS SO REAL, POIGNANT, AND RELEVANT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: AS AN ARTIST, DID YOU MAKE THIS UP, OR DID IT COME THROUGH YOU?

>> Debbie Allen: YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF -- YEAH, IT CAME TO ME BECAUSE I WAS PASSIONATE.

ART IS TO ME -- THE TRUEST ARTISTS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING, WHETHER THEY ARE PAINTERS, FILMMAKERS, DANCERS, THEY ARE TELLING A TRUTH.

ALVIN AILEY'S REVELATIONS WILL LAST FOREVER.

BECAUSE IT WAS COMING OUT OF TEXAS, IT WAS HIS TRUTH.

IT WAS HIS JOURNEY.

IT WAS WHAT HE UNDERSTOOD.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED FIRST HAND.

LIVING IN LA, COMING OUT OF TEXAS, AS A CHILD, I WAS -- I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR ME TO SEE PRESIDENT KENNEDY ONE DAY WITH HIS HAIR GLEAMING IN THE SUN AND THE NEXT DAY TO SEE HIM SHOT, BLOODIED.

AND IT HAPPENED IN MY STATE.

SO I FELT LIKE I WAS A PART OF IT IN A WAY THAT I CAN EXPLAIN, YOU KNOW, A 13-YEAR-OLD GIRL.

SO THEY SORT OF CAME TO ME, IT DID ME AND NOW I'M DOING IT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: TELL ME WHAT IT WAS -- WHITE 18 YEARS?

EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE RELEVANT WITH TODAY'S NEWS, BUT IT'S ALMOST MORE RELEVANT IS 18 YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, THERE HADN'T BEEN ALL THESE POLICE SHOOTINGS IN A ROW THAT -- THAT RECEIVED THE PUBLICITY LIKE THEY ARE RECEIVING NOW.

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, LET'S GO BACK.

FREEZE-FRAME IS LONGER THAN 18 YEARS.

IT'S MORE LIKE 30.

BUT IF SOMETHING IS IN YOU, IT'S LIKE YOUR CHILD.

YOU NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR CHILDREN, AND THESE IDEAS STAY WITH YOU UNTIL THEY COME INTO FRUITION.

IT IS PART OF, I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S THAT DEBBIE ALLEN IN ME, THAT CAPRICORN THAT DOES NOT GIVE UP.

MY FATHER ALWAYS SAID YOU'RE TOO PERSISTENT, YOU DON'T GIVE UP.

AND THAT'S ONE OF MY BETTER QUALITIES.

I DON'T GIVE UP AND I WILL STAY WITH SOMETHING.

SO "FREEZE FRAME" IS BORN OF ME THROUGH A LOT OF DISCOVERY, EXCAVATION, PAIN, AND A LOT OF BEGGING AND PLEADING.

STILL NOW, A LOT OF TOUCH AND GO.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NERVOUS ABOUT IT.

THEY ARE NERVOUS ABOUT IT THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT IT MIGHT BE TOO POLITICAL.

IT'S NOT POLITICAL.

IT IS HUMAN, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

>> Bonnie Erbe: YOU CALLED AT YOUR CHURCH.

>> Debbie Allen: IT IS A VERY SPIRITUAL THING TO BE AN ARTIST AND TO DANCE AND TO DO WHAT I DO.

IT'S VERY SPIRITUAL.

IT COMES FROM A PLACE THAT'S VERY PURE.

IT COMES FROM A PLACE THAT IS NOT ALWAYS VERY CLEAR.

IT COMES FROM A PLACE WHERE YOU MUST TAKE CHANCES AND TO BRING PEOPLE IN.

I HAVE GATHERED SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE IN WHAT I DO AND IT IS MY CHURCH, MY WORK IS MY CHURCH.

I LOVE WHAT I DO AND I THINK I'VE BEEN ORDAINED TO DO IT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: "FREEZE FRAME" TACKLES MANY SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS ISSUES THAT HAVE MADE HEADLINES OVER THE YEARS, FROM FIGHTING FOR EQUAL RIGHTS TO ADDRESSING BULLYING IN SCHOOLS.

TELL ME ABOUT HOW TOUGH IT WAS TO GET THIS PLAY NEPS PRODUCED AND SHOWN NATIONALLY.

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, THIS IS A REALLY SENSITIVE, VERY SENSITIVE TOPICAL RELEVANT SUBJECT, WE ARE DEALING WITH GUN VIOLENCE, DEALING WITH RACIAL RELATIONSHIPS, DEALING WITH BULLYING.

WE ARE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, HOW PEOPLE ADDRESS WOMEN.

IT HAS SO MANY THINGS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO TODAY, AND IT'S TOUGH BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO FIND SPONSORSHIP, PEOPLE ARE VERY SENSITIVE.

IT'S A POLITICAL YEAR, THERE WAS A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT A DEBATE THAT BELONGS TO ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE OR OTHER.

THIS IS ABOUT AMERICAN LIFESTYLE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: IT TAKES THE VIEWER INTO LOW-INCOME AMERICA, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DAY IN THE LIFE ALMOST OF -- >> Debbie Allen: WELL, IT'S NOT JUST LOW-INCOME AMERICA.

YOU LOOK AT AFRICAN AMERICANS, THAT'S THE FIRST THING PEOPLE SAY.

DAVID AND HIS FATHER, THEY LIVE IN ONE OF THE BIGGEST HOUSES ON THE HILL.

IT'S NOT THAT IT'S LOW INCOME, HIS ZIP CODE IN HIS PERCEPTION, JUST LIKE YOU JUST SAID, IT IS PERCEPTION.

YOU'RE,PERCEIVED THAT IF YOU'RE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, LIKE SOME PEOPLE IN THE POLITICAL TRAIL RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN THE WORST SHAPE THAT WE'VE EVER BEEN.

AND THAT'S NOT REALLY TRUE.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, IN TELEVISION WHERE I WORK EVERY DAY, SHONDA RHIMES HAS CREATED AN EMPIRE THAT HAS EMBRACED THE DIVERSITY OF NOT JUST ETHNIC DIVERSITY, BUT MORE WOMEN WORKING THAN ANY PLACE I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

SO WHAT IS IS A TO LOOK AT THE CHALLENGES AT AFRICAN-AMERICAN YOUTH, LATIN AMERICAN YOUTH.

EVEN ADDRESSES WHAT THE POLICE ARE GOING THROUGH.

IT IS A VERY BALANCED CONVERSATION.

>> Bonnie Erbe: ALLEN TOLD ME IT'S A VERY PERSONAL ISSUE, WHEN THAT HITS NOT JUST CLOSE TO HOME, BUT ACTUALLY HIT HOME.

>> Debbie Allen: WE GOT OFF A BOAT FROM ITALY, MY SON JUST BOUGHT HIS FIRST CAR, A MERCEDES.

AND HE WAS DRIVING DOWN THE STREET, HE GOT PULLED OVER BY THE POLICE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: IN CALIFORNIA?

>> Debbie Allen: CALIFORNIA.

PULLED INTO THE CAR WAS ASKED IS THIS CAR STOLEN?

THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.

AND THERE'S A LYRIC IN "FREEZE FRAME" THAT SAYS THERE IS A NEW ENDANGERED SPECIES RIGHT HERE IN OUR HOMELAND, THE YOUNG, SOMETIMES TROUBLED, HOODIE WEARING BLACK MAN.

I MEAN, WHAT IS GOING ON?

WHY -- I WAS SO OUTRAGED.

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING DEBBIE ALLEN ON TV, BUT THERE WAS NO REASON FOR HIM TO BE STOPPED.

HE DID NOT HAVE A TRAFFIC VIOLATION, NOTHING.

JUST STOPPED BLACK WHILE DRIVING.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, POLICEMEN WHO HONOR THE BADGE.

YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS IN MY HOUSE, THAT'S THE FIRST CALL I'M GOING TO MAKE.

BUT THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T HONOR THAT BADGE THAT SHOULD NOT BE THERE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: ALLEN POINTS OUT IT'S NOT JUST A BLACK-AND-WHITE ISSUE, BUT A HUMAN ONE, AND IN ORDER FOR CHANGE TO OCCUR, CONVERSATION MUST HAVE BEEN AMONG EVERYONE.

SO WHAT -- AGAIN, I MEAN, IT JUST KEEPS HAPPENING AND HAPPENING AND HAPPENING IN HAPPENING.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE SOLUTION> Debbie Allen: WELL, THIS IS WHY IT'S CALLED "FREEZE FRAME: STOP THE MADNESS."

EVERYWHERE WHERE WE DO THE SHOW.

WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE PANEL DISCUSSION.

WE HAVE GOT TO DO THIS GRASSROOTS CITY, BY CITY BY CITY, AND PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO COME TOGETHER, VOICED THEIR CONCERNS AND THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS -- NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT A CONVERSATION.

PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO TALK.

WE INVITED THE NRA TO COME.

HEY ARE NOT COMING.

WE WANT -- I WANTED THEM TO COME, I REALLY DID.

>> Bonnie Erbe: WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE NOT COMING?

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, THEY SAID THAT BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, THEY WERE NOT SURE IF THEY HAD THE RIGHT PERSON TO REPRESENT THE -- THE GROUP, I DON'T KNOW.

I WAS DISAPPOINTED.

>> Bonnie Erbe: DOES THAT MEAN THERE ARE NO AFRICAN-AMERICANS OR LATINOS AT THE NRA?

IS THAT WHAT THEY WERE SAYING?

>> Debbie Allen: THIS IS NOT ABOUT BLACKNESS THIS IS ABOUT AMERICAN, BLACKNESS AND WHITENESS.

NO, THIS IS NOT A WORLD THAT'S BLACK AND WHITE.

THIS IS NOT A WORLD THAT'S LATINA.

AND BUT THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT IS AMERICAN.

AND THE MOMENT THAT WE START TO START TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE AMERICAN PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, GO OUTSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY I DO ALL THE TIME.

I'VE BEEN TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

I'VE BEEN TO ASIA AND CHINA, AFRICA.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I WENT TO AFRICA, EVERYONE SAID, OH, DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE HOME?

I SAID, NOT REALLY, TEXAS.

AM HOME HERE.

BUT I KNOW MY ROOTS.

BUT THIS IS MY COUNTRY.

THIS IS MY NATION.

I'M AMERICAN AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO START SEEING OURSELVES, AS AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND STOP ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE IT IS SO INTERESTING TO ME.

AFTER DOING ALMOST GOD, I REALIZED THAT VERY SOON IN THIS COUNTRY, THERE WILL BE NO PURE BLACK PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE, BECAUSE WE ARE FUSION.

WE ARE MIXTURE, AND THAT IS AS IT SHOULD BE.

I THINK YOU CAN STOP THAT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: BUT WHEN ARTISTS GET INTO THE ARENA OF PUSHING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE, WHICH HAS -- >> Debbie Allen: POLITICAL.

>> Bonnie Erbe: -- POLITICAL ASPECTS TO IT, WHERE ARE THE POTHOLES?

WE ARE THE SINKHOLES IN THIS?

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, THE SINKHOLES ARE, HOW DO YOU RAISE MONEY TO KEEP IT GOING?

WITHOUT NAMING NAMES, I HAVE TALKED TO SOME REALLY BIG CORPORATIONS WANT TO, BUT THE SUPERIORS ARE NOT LETTING THEM UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION.

THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE THIS IS NOT, THIS IS COMING FROM A DANCE ACADEMY, A DANCE WORLD.

IT'S NOT COMING FROM A POLITICAL LEADER OR ADVOCATE THAT WAY.

I'M DEALING WITH MY PEOPLE, MY KIDS EVERY DAY.

I AM LOOKING AT THE KIDS WHOSE LIVES WILL BE COMPROMISED IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING.

I DON'T EXPECT -- NO ONE EXPECTS THEIR CHILD TO DIE WHEN THEY GO TO THE LIBRARY AT THEIR OWN SCHOOL.

NO ONE EXPECTS THEIR CHILD TO DIE IF THEY GO TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TO THEIR CLASS.

IF SANDY HOOK DIDN'T CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS, THEY HAVE GOT TO BE REMINDED.

THEY HAVE TO.

THIS CANNOT -- WE CANNOT -- AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET.

WE ARE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD, THAT WE ALLOW FREE EXPRESSION.

THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

NO ONE IS SAYING DON'T HAVE GUNS.

HARRIET TUBMAN COULDN'T HAVE HELPED ABOLISH SLAVERY WITHOUT A GUN.

THAT IS A TRUTH.

THAT IS A FACT.

BUT DO WE NEED ASSAULT WEAPONS ON THE STREET?

DO WE?

YOU KNOW, ARE WE TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE WHO ARE FELONS OR BEING ON THE FBI WATCH, SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO WALK IN AND BUY A GUN?

WHAT IS -- I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE TO DRIVE A CAR.

YOU HAVE TO BE LICENSED TO BE A PHYSICIAN, TO GIVE MEDICINE.

THIS IS NO DIFFERENT.

THE CDC HAS PROCLAIMED THIS AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.

THAT IS A CONCERN TO PEOPLE HERE IN OUR COUNTRY.

WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING.

>> Bonnie Erbe: DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE SCENE?

>> Debbie Allen: I DON'T!

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A FAVORITE SCENE.

I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SCENES IS THE CHURCH TOWN MEETING TO STOP THE MADNESS CONVERSATION.

AND THAT SCENE IS CALLED THE GHOSTS OF COLUMBINE AND SANDY HOOK.

THAT IS -- I WOKE UP WITH THIS SONG IN MY HEAD THAT GOES, THE COLUMBINE AND SANDY HOOK ARE SPEAKING, INNOCENT SOULS FROM CHARLESTON ARE STILL BLEEDING.♪ ♪ SAN BERNARDINO WILL NEVER ♪ ♪ REST, UNTIL WE FULLY ADDRESS ♪ ♪ THE PROBLEM AS A NATION, ♪ ♪ LOOKING FOR REFORMATION.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> Bonnie Erbe: BRAVO.

DO YOU WORRY YOU MIGHT JUST BE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR IN THIS PARTICULAR VENUE, THEATER?

>> Debbie Allen: NO, I DON'T THINK I'M PREACHING TO THE CHOIR.

THIS IS WASHINGTON DC.

YOU HAVE THE CROSS SECTION OF EVERY CULTURAL, ECONOMIC, POLITICAL DIVIDE COME TOGETHER THAT YOU CAN THINK OF.

I'M REACHING OUT TO SENATORS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO COME AND SUPPORT THIS PROJECT.

NO, I'M NOT PREACHING TO THE CHOIR, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A CHOIR YET SINGING LOUDLY ENOUGH THAT'S MAKING A CHANGE.

NOW, I'M HOPING THAT IT WILL FORM A CHOIR.

I'M HOPING THAT WILL FIND A WAY TO CREATE A REAL CHOIR WHO WILL DO SOMETHING.

>> Bonnie Erbe: AND OTHER PROJECTS YOU HAVE IN MIND?

>> Debbie Allen: I WILL BE DOING THE HOT CHOCOLATE NUTCRACKER BACK IN LA IN DECEMBER WHERE I PLAY A RAT, STUTTERING RAT, BUCKY!

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, HARVEY?

I AM A VERSATILE PERSON.

SOMETHING FOR THE FAMILIES FOR THE HOLIDAYS.

I'LL BE DOING THAT.

I'M STILL -- >> Bonnie Erbe: DID YOU PRODUCE THAT?

>> Debbie Allen: YEAH, I WROTE IT AND DIRECTED AND PRODUCE IT.

I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCING GREY'S ANATOMY.

WE HAD OUR STELLAR PREMIER A LITTLE WHILE AGO, AND THAT SHOW IS AMAZING TO WORK ON.

IT'S QUITE INCREDIBLE TO BE PART OF SEAN GLENNON.

I HAVE LONG HELD THE RIGHTS TO, THE LIFE WRITES TO DR. AS ELLEN CALENDAR OF THE WHO IS THE REAL READER OF THE LOST ARK.

IS A BLACK MAN, A HARVARD PROFESSOR AND A MEMBER OF THE EXPLORERS CLUB.

HE HAS TRAVELED THE GLOBE.

HE DISCOVERED THE WHITE AND THE BLACK ESKIMOS THAT WERE DESCENDENTS OF HINSON AND PERRY, WHO DISCOVERED THE LOW NORTH POLE.

HE WENT TO THE SURINAM WHERE HE'S BEEN WORKING FOR YEARS AND DISCOVERED A TRIBE OF BLACK PEOPLE MORE PURE THAN ANYTHING YOU CAN FIND IN AFRICA, ALMOST.

THEY ESCAPED FROM THE SLAVE SHIPS AND WENT INTO THE RAIN FOREST.

I WANT TO DO HIS STORY.

SO I'M WORKING ON THAT.

AND I'M ALSO -- MY SISTER, FELICIA, AND I REALLY WANT TO DO MORE PROJECTS TOGETHER.

AND WE ARE, WE'VE GOT OUR HANDS ON SOME THINGS THAT WE ARE GOING TO COME FORWARD WITH.

I WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A NEW BALLET FOR MR. COPELAND.

I THINK SHE DESERVES HER OWN ORIGINAL BALLET.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT WILL GO.

AND I REALLY, REALLY WOULD LOVE TO DIRECT OPERA.

IT IS THE ONE THING I HAVE NOT DONE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: INTERESTING.

OPERA, WHY OPERA?

>> Debbie Allen: I LOVE OPERA.

AS A YOUNG GIRL, WHEN I WAS THE FIRST BLACK STUDENT AT THE HOUSTON BALLET FOUNDATION, AND THEREFORE THE ONLY DANCER IN THE QUARTER BALLET.

WHERE WE DANCED WAS AT THE HOUSTON GRAND OPERA.

AND WE OPENED JONES HALL WITH I.E.

THE, AND I WILL NEVER FORGET THE GREATNESS AND THE MAJESTY OF ALL OF THAT.

AND I'VE BEEN A FAN OF OPERA SINCE -- YOU KNOW, MUSICALS ARE GREAT, BUT OPERA IS MASSIVE.

IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT HAVE A HOUSE AND HORSES ON STAGE, 300 PEOPLE, GLORIOUS MUSIC.

SO I'M VERY INTERESTED IN DOING OPERA.

I LOVE THE PRODUCTION VALUE OF IT.

AND IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT STORY, I THINK IT COULD BE I THINK I WOULD BE REALLY GOOD AT IT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED GREY'S ANATOMY.

YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT AMISTAD.

YOU'VE DONE SO MANY OTHER THINGS LIKE DIRECTING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN BROADWAY PRODUCTION OF CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF.

YOU RELEASED SOLO ALBUMS, YOU HAVE TO DANCE ACADEMY, GET YOU ARE STILL BEST KNOWN TO MANY AMERICANS FOR?

>> Debbie Allen: LYDIA GRANT ON "FAME"!

WHICH I LOVE SO MUCH.

I WEAR THAT AS A BADGE OF HONOR AND PRIDE.

LYDIA GRANT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE WITH ME AND I LOVE THAT EVERYONE -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY A FEW ACTORS IN THIS INDUSTRY THAT CAN SAY THEY HAVE THAT PHRASE THAT EVERYBODY WANTS, YOU LOOKING AT ME?

LOOKING AT ME?

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE CLINT EASTWOOD ONE?

MAKE MY DAY.

AND I HAVE, YOU WANT FAME?

WELL, FAME COSTS, AND RIGHT HERE IS WHERE YOU START PAYING AND SWEAT.

I'M LIKE RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE BIG GUYS.

I LOVE IT!

>> Bonnie Erbe: TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR OTHER ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT YOU ARE MOST PROUD OF, PLEASE.

>> Debbie Allen: I THINK THE ACCOMPLISHMENT I'M MOST PROUD OF IS MY CHILDREN.

I PRODUCED VIVIAN NIXON AND NORMAN NIXON JR. MY CHILDREN AND ALL THE CHILDREN THAT I WORK WITH ON A DAILY BASIS AT THE DEBBIE ALLEN DANCE ACADEMY.

BUT UM, I LOVE MY KIDS, THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE.

AND THEY'RE DOING GOOD THINGS.

AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THEM.

>> Bonnie Erbe: WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

>> Debbie Allen: WELL, MY SON NORMAN NIXON, JR. WROTE MOST OF THE MUSIC FOR "FREEZE FRAME, AND HE'S ALSO A STAND UP COMEDIAN.

SOMETHING I HAVE TO TREAD WITH LIGHTLY BECAUSE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THEIR CONVERSATIONS AND THEIR LANGUAGE I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO ALLOW THEM BUT IT'S NOT MY HE'S GOING TO BE A SHOW ON THE COMMITTEE NETWORK CENTRAL.

IS PART OF THE SHOW.

WE'LL SEE WHAT THAT IS.

MY DAUGHTER VIVIAN, IS MY MUSE.

SHE'S ACTUALLY IN FREEZE FRAME.

SHE PLAYS EARTHA, THE YOUNG GIRL WHO COULD BE AN ALVIN AILEY, BUT HER MOTHER'S A DRUG ADDICT, AND VIVIAN IS SO GIFTED AND TALENTED.

SHE JUST HAS TO DECIDE WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO.

SHE GRADUATED FROM FORDHAM AND WAS STARRING IN A FIRST BROADWAY SHOW BEFORE SHE EVEN GOT OUT OF COLLEGE.

SHE'S SOMEWHAT OF AN ENTREPRENEUR, SHE LIKES INVESTING IN APARTMENT BUILDINGS AND SHE'S THE CO ARTISTIC DIRECTOR OF THE DEBBIE AND DANCE ACADEMY.

AND SHE'S THE DEAN OF THE EARLY BIRDS, THE FOUR TO SEVEN YEAR OLDS.

THAT'S HER GROUP THAT SHE'S MENTORING THAT IS INCREDIBLE.

AND A LIFE OF CREATIVITY IS A FAMILY AFFAIR.

>> Bonnie Erbe: >> Debbie Allen: I'VE GROWN UP IN A WORLD WITH MY MOTHER, VIVIAN AYRES WHO'S A POET HAVE GROWN UP IN THE WORLD OF ART.

JOHN BIGGERS WAS LIKE MY UNCLE, I'VE GROWN UP IN A WORLD OF HISTORY THAT I LOVE.

AND ALL OF THAT INFORMS WHAT I DO.

SO IF YOU'RE THE REAL ARTISTS, YOU'RE INFORMED BY EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO, AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT ARTISTS ADDRESS WHAT'S HAPPENING, AND THAT WE HELP OUR CONSTITUENTS, OUR FANS OR OUR COMMUNITY, COME TO A PLACE OF UNDERSTANDING OR WE EXPRESS FOR THEM TO THE WORLD, WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH.

WE HELP THE WORLD UNDERSTAND OUR COMMUNITY.

VICE VERSA.

ALL WE INCLUDE THE WORLD.

>> Bonnie Erbe: CONGRATULATIONS, DEBBIE ALLEN.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

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