Alcindor: Now, we now have to turn to the surprising developments surrounding the Capitol attack. So many people in Washington, D.C., are talking about this story. New audio obtained by the authors of a soon-to-be released book revealed that in the days after January 6, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy considered recommending President Trump, then President Trump, resign.
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Rep. Kevin McCaarthy (R-CA): Again, the only discussion I would have with him, is that I think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. I mean, that would be my take, but I don`t think he would take it. But I don`t know.
I`ve been very clear to the president: he bears responsibilities for his words and actions, no ifs, ands or buts. I asked him personally today, does he hold responsibility for what happened? Does he feel bad about what happened? He told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. And he needs to acknowledge that.
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Alcindor: Very striking. Before the release of that audio you just heard, McCarthy called reporting by "The New York Times" journalists, quote, totally false.
Dan, I want to come to you. You`re, of course, the politics here. You`re a veteran political reporter. I wonder what you make of what`s going on here, especially when your paper, the "Washington Post" is reporting that President Trump and McCarthy talked and that Trump isn`t mad for now.
As an old Trump White House reporter, I have to say for now because that`s what that president`s emotions seem to often be like. So how much trouble is McCarthy really in right now?
Balz: I think that remains to be seen, but I think this was a terrible moment for him, to come out as he did on Thursday and deny -- in the fulsome way he denied what "The New York Times" was reporting, and this is from the book that Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns will publish in early May, that denial was so strong that when the audio was played last night on MSNBC, it completely undid him.
And I think it revealed him for what many people have criticized him for many, many months. One, that he`s been politically weak. Another that he`s been hypocritical and a third, that his kind of desire to be the next speaker if the Republicans win the midterm elections in November, have prompted him to do almost everything imaginable to be subservient to former President Trump.
And I think it was doubly revealing that after having denied and then been revealed to have been lying about the denial that he then reached out to President Trump as opposed to acknowledging, okay, yes, I did say this but I never actually made the call or some way to kind of worm his way out of it.
But clearly, his concern is that Trump will turn on him and if Trump turns on him, then the House conference might turn on him and his dream of being speaker if they win in November would go up in smoke.
Alcindor: Dan, that`s why we have you on this show, because it`s summaries like that that makes me want to talk to you every Friday night.
Laura, the words Dan just used, undid, revealed. I wonder what you think about the other part of this audio is former President Trump acknowledging he has some responsibility for the Capitol attack. How much weight does that have given that Trump is in charge of the GOP essentially and he`s continuing to lie about the 2020 election? He hasn`t changed his tone at all.
Barron-Lopez: Yeah, what`s so striking about this video and everything we`re hearing from the January 6 Committee and everything that`s come out and that, you know, Jonathan Martin from the "New York Times" said there`s going to be more tapes. So, there could be very well more that is coming out.
But is that it appears to be no red line, whether it`s a moral or a constitutional red line for Republicans when it comes to Trump, which is that Trump is saying he bore some responsibility for January 6 to McCarthy. We also -- those same reporters from the "New York Times" said that McConnell agreed that Trump should be impeached and potentially considered voting to convict him in the Senate. McCarthy thought that he should maybe resign.
And yet, despite all of that and despite the fact he they found his conduct unbecoming to be president, they`ve decided to still say they would support him in he runs in 2024 and that they want this support as they tried to regain control of the party -- of the country, sorry.
Alcindor: Of country, of the country, it`s interchangeable in some says.
But, David, I mean, I would ask you an articulate question, but really weigh in here. This is your -- the story we were all talking about last night.
Sanger: What a Washington moment.
OK. First of all, if you have more than two people in a room in Washington, assume that there`s a microphone running some place and a tape running some place.
Alcindor: A good rule.
Sanger: Second rule is, I know it sounds like a really easy thing to go do, particularly for many of pro-Trump Republicans to say, oh, that was in the "New York Times" or the "Washington Post" or you name it. It`s got to be wrong.
OK. Let`s set aside for a moment that Jonathan and Alex, both colleagues of mine, are two of the finest political reporters in Washington and if they report it, you can pretty well take it to the bank. But then to have in this case, the revelation of the tape moments after the denial, I mean, it really tells you how the city works it.
And makes you wonder what McCarthy thought he was doing. Why he thought he could probably -- he could get away with this. Maybe in the long run he will. Maybe no one will remember this come November and December when we`re talking about who`s going to be running the House.
Alcindor: Dan, will there be a political price to pay for McCarthy here? Is -- when you think about sort of the GOP and especially in that party, not a lot of people have paid prices when it comes to false information. And, of course, President Trump, who`s playing party boss and handing out endorsements, he has not obviously been truthful.
So is there a price to pay for McCarthy here?
Balz: Well, I think there`s a price to pay and he`s been paying it in the greater world, in the eyes of history, if you will, without trying to be too grand about that.
Kevin McCarthy`s reputation has sunk over the last 18 months or more because of the way he has behaved vis-a-vis former President Trump. Whether there will be a price to be paid on what he really cares about remains to be seen. And I think, you know, as I indicated, I think to some extent or to a large extent, that`s in the hands of President Trump and programs some others in the Republican conference.
But those who have gone against President Trump have paid a price within the party and exhibit A of that is Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who was on that same call that was -- where McCarthy made these statements and who is the vials chair of the January 6 House Committee and who`s been driven out of the leadership of the Republicans in the House and might well be defeated in November in her bid for re-election. That`s the sort of internal politics of House Republicans and in that sense Kevin McCarthy may not pay any price at all.
Alcindor: It`s striking when you think about sort of where Liz Cheney landed and where Kevin McCarthy landed in listening to that audio. And it tells you so much about sort of what was going on behind the scenes there.
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