This script has been lightly edited for clarity.

 

Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

After the roller coaster that was last season, Grantchester’s newest vicar, Reverend Alphy Kottaram, is settling into his new role and his new community. As he builds his new life, Alphy now turns his attention to finding someone to spend his evenings with, someone other than the ever-loyal Dickens. It seems as if Alphy has found the perfect match in librarian Meg, who is clever, beautiful, and shares his love of books. What could possibly go wrong?

 

CLIP

Alphy: My Lord.

Bishop Aubrey Gray: Reverend Kottaram.

Meg: Dad.

Alphy: Dad?

Meg: I was going to mention it.

 

A sense of belonging is ever-present in Alphy’s mind. He has been welcomed into Grantchester and adopted by the village as one of their own, but now he is confronted with an even deeper question of identity and must figure out his place within this new community as well as the wider world. What does it mean to Alphy to be an Anglo-Indian vicar in a small British village?

 

CLIP

Alphy: I’m not a convert. I chose this. I grew up with it. Bible stories before bed every night.

Professor Joshi: And you think that what the church has made you into, that’s true to who you really are?

Alphy: This is who I am.

 

In Episode Four, we get a glimpse into Alphy’s past as an unexpected phone call pulls him right back to the foundling home where he grew up. 

 

CLIP

Alphy: Are you sure you’re up for this?

Leonard: Without question.

Alphy: It’ll only be for a few days. I wouldn’t ask if it wasn’t an emergency.

Leonard: Take as long as you need. Family first.

Alphy: Thank you.

 

But what Alphy discovers may shock him to his very core. Today, actor Rishi Nair joins us to explore belonging, romance, and the reveal of Alphy Kottaram’s past.

 

Jace Lacob: And this week we are joined by Grantchester star Rishi Nair. Welcome.

Rishi Nair: Thank you so much for having me again.

Jace Lacob: So, the last time we spoke was before Series Nine of Grantchester premiered in the States and in the UK, and you were settling into your role as the nation’s premier crime solving vicar. How has your life changed since Alphy’s first Grantchester series premiered?

Rishi Nair: I wouldn’t say it’s changed a lot, to be honest. It’s pretty much still the same. But yeah, a few more people are recognizing me now as Alphy in comparison to some of the other characters I’ve played on TV before, so that’s new. And yeah, I think that’s about it. That’s about all that’s changed really.

Jace Lacob: So you’re not getting that kind of like, vicar glow that people are suddenly much nicer to you because they think you’re an actual vicar?

Rishi Nair: Do you know what, when people do stop me now, I do make a joke with them sometimes. I tell them if they want to tell me all their sins, I’m all ears. I’ve had some stories told to me, but I’m not sure I should probably repeat those.

Jace Lacob: Oh no, let’s not talk out of school, no. With Series Nine you have that sort of baton passing season with Tom Brittney’s Will. And even though you didn’t appear on screen together, it’s a transitional season with Alphy taking over for Will. With Series 10 however, you’re no longer the new kid on the block. How comfortable did it feel then, returning to put on that dog collar for Series 10?

Rishi Nair: Yeah, it’s funny because obviously it’s my second season that I’d done, but it felt so familiar coming back, even though I’d only just done one season. Putting on the same clothes again and working with all the same cast and a lot of the same crew, almost felt like coming back home in a strange sense.

And for Alphy, we come into Season 10 and like you said, he is no longer the new kid on the block. He’s kind of settled in. We are picking it up a year later from Season Nine. And he’s kind of got his new found family there. And yeah, he’s really enjoying life in Grantchester. And I think myself, Rishi the actor, kind of echoes that as well. It kind of feels like going back to a family and just really enjoying being on set and working with such great, talented people.

Jace Lacob: I love the use of the word ‘family’ here, because as I watched the first episodes of Series 10, something stuck in my head from the end of Series Nine when cult leader, Sam said to Alphy,

 

CLIP

Sam: You’ve never felt wanted.

Alphy: Don’t even try.

Sam: Yeah, that’s it, isn’t it? You don’t know what it is to be wanted. No home, no family, no love.

Alphy: You have no idea who I am.

Sam: I have everything that you don’t have and you can’t bear it.

 

Jace Lacob: And it clearly touched this raw nerve in Alphy. When in the process did you learn about Alphy’s past as a foundling? Were you aware of that even prior to Series Nine?

Rishi Nair: That was never a thing for Alphy, that he was a foundling. And I think we had shot maybe the first two or three episodes, and then Emma and Daisy came up with this idea and wanted to speak to me. They came into my trailer and they told me this idea of, we actually think that Alphy should be a foundling and we think this would add so much more to it. And I was like, this is brilliant. I loved it.

So actually, for the first three episodes, none of us knew that Alphy was a foundling, and then I think Daisy and Emma decided that this would be a great thing to add to the show. Which I’m so glad they did because it’s given us so much more to play with and it’s given us such a great option to go somewhere for Season 10 as well.

Jace Lacob: Alphy presents himself as this quintessential English vicar, born in Romford, raised in the church. But in Episode Two of this series, that identity is questioned by an Anglo-Indian professor who wonders if he’s pretending to not be an outsider.

 

CLIP

Professor Joshi: It doesn’t get more quintessentially British than the vicar of a quaint little village. You’ll tell me next that your police friend accepts you too.

Alphy: That’s not fair. Geordie’s a good man.

Professor Joshi: He’s using you. Walking around with a handsome Indian vicar. Everyone assuming he’s moral and accepting and not the fist of the status quo.

Alphy: Now you’re judging.

Professor Joshi: Raised by the church, seeing the world through their eyes. You trust all the wrong people.

Alphy: And your sari is in the wash, is it?

Professor Joshi: I wish you could see how much you’ve been skewed.

 

Jace Lacob: What did you make of the “bright sari” speech in Episode Two and Alphy’s exchange with Professor Joshi?

Rishi Nair: I think it’s probably something that Alphy has experienced his whole life because he is a foundling and he is very clearly a brown man. He’s born as this brown Indian man in England, but actually he’s not brought up by anyone Indian. He’s brought up by somebody called Reverend Potts who’s a reverend and in charge of this foundling home.

And so he’s kind of grown up around him and what you would imagine would be a very high majority of white English kids in that foundling home. And so I don’t think Alphy’s had any kind of upbringing or learned anything about his Indian culture. And so I think probably as his life progresses, he’s probably come across people like Professor Joshi that look at him and don’t see a typical British Indian kid because he doesn’t really know anything about his culture.

And so, Professor Joshi kind of picks up on that and obviously no one knows why and no one knows that he’s a foundling and he’s chosen not to tell anyone, but people pick up on that and kind of, yeah, I guess she’s kind of like, what’s going on here? She first accuses him of, like you said, just pretending and putting this mask on. Or she then says that Geordie is using Alphy for whatever reason that might be.

And I think that hits a nerve for Alphy because I think in all honesty, I think he’s confused by it himself. He isn’t really sure where he belongs, this whole kind of nature-nurture debate. And obviously growing up in the ‘60s and being brown would have been tough and you would’ve stood out even more than you would now, you know? There was much less diversity then. So yeah, it would’ve been tough.

Jace Lacob: I love the fact that after this exchange, he then makes samosas which he calls an “identity crisis on a plate”, which is amazing. Is this an attempt then to sort of reclaim some of his heritage, albeit a heritage that he doesn’t really know much about?

Rishi Nair: I think so, yeah. I think he feels, in a sense, guilt towards that, towards not having any idea about his culture about this country where his parents have come from. I imagine him as a kid in a foundling house, kind of looking at himself in the mirror thinking, why do I look different? Because there’s no one there to explain why you are different. I think growing up, just as myself as growing up as a British Asian, you have these kind[s] of identity questions a lot anyway. I’m born in England, I live here and I’m always kind of referred to as the Indian guy. And then I go to India and I’m always referred to as the English guy. It’s kind of like, you don’t really know where you belong. You’re kind of always the outsider wherever you go.

So for me, that’s something I’ve questioned. So I imagine for Alphy that never had an Indian family in that upbringing, he then is trying to claw back anything he can and going home and making a samosa maybe makes him feel a little bit less guilty about not knowing anything about his culture and upbringing.

Jace Lacob: I think it’s interesting too, he is a character who, in his first appearance, is accused of being a thief simply because of the color of his skin. He doesn’t have, as you said, parents to turn to, to provide a foundation for his heritage or his identity as an Asian person in Britain. I think that would add this sort of deeper complexity to his identity, being raised without parents being raised without the guidance of someone who looks like him. Do you feel like that becomes sort of a major crux of his struggle this series?

Rishi Nair: I think so. I think there’s a part of that, and I think it all kind of has a knock on effect, this kind of uncertainty. Like, when Professor Joshi says something along the lines of like, you’re so naive you can’t even see that they’re using you, it kind of then plants that seed in Alphy’s head and he starts thinking, is Geordie using me? And it kind of puts a slight strain on that relationship.

And then a relationship that he has with Meg, who is a character that we meet in Season 10 and they kind of, I guess, fall for each other and it kind of affects his romantic relationship in that sense as well, because then he starts thinking, is Meg using me for something, being the kind of token Asian person in town? I don’t know. It really has this knock on effect for him and we see it affecting his relationships with other people. And I’m not sure Alphy’s ever really gone that deep into it before.

I think he’s just tried to ignore these questions and just try and get on with life. I think life’s been quite difficult for him anyhow, and I don’t think he’s really had the time to kind of delve too much into this. But this season we really see that explored more and I think Alphy’s probably gone a bit deeper than he ever has before.

And in Episode Four he goes back to his foundling home where he was brought up and I think there, a lot of his secrets are unraveled. And Alphy goes back to his past and confronts his past without ever actually wanting to. I don’t think he’s ever wanted to do that. I think he’s very much someone that looks forward, don’t look back, but he’s kind of forced to go back and look back and I think that uncovers some wounds that he has been hiding for years.

 

MIDROLL

 

Jace Lacob: I love Episode Four. It’s an episode that’s really brilliantly rooted in horror movie tropes as Alphy has to sort of confront the ghost of his own past. What did you think of Episode Four when you first read Nessah’s script?

Rishi Nair: Do you know what, I’m with you as well, I absolutely loved Episode Four. When I first read it, my first initial thought was, this doesn’t feel like Grantchester. It felt so far removed from Grantchester and I absolutely loved that. I kept calling it the rogue episode because it was just like so out there. And it obviously being so emotionally charged for Alphy, I think it’s the first time we kind of see Alphy come out of this, how do I describe it? He has this kind of exterior. He’s very confident and self-assured, and I think in Episode Four, we really kind of go almost within Alphy and we see the cracks and we see him for who he really is. And that I really liked.

The secret of being a foundling finally coming out was also nice to kind of give that burden to Geordie and to see what happens with that. Because obviously Alphy has this kind of fear of Geordie’s going to find out that I’m a foundling and that I’ve lied to him and he’s no longer going to want to be my friend, and I’m going to lose this whole family that I’ve now gotten. And actually, when he tells Geordie, you see the reaction is not like that. And Geordie loves Alphy for who he is, no matter whether he was a foundling or not.

Jace Lacob: It does show, when he opens up to Geordie, just how far he’s sort of come in this process and journey. But there’s also some shame there as well and a bit of guilt.

 

CLIP

Geordie: What is this?

Alphy: This is my home. This is where I grew up, Geordie. This is the man who raised me.

 

Jace Lacob: How did you look to play that moment where Alphy reveals his history to Geordie?

Rishi Nair: Yeah, I think there is a lot of shame and guilt there. I think just being an orphan, I think Alphy’s perspective on that, especially trying to be someone in this institution of the church, I think that’s kind of maybe why he’s not wanted to ever tell anyone because his opportunities of getting anywhere in this institution being of the background he is, is already against the odds and he doesn’t want to add to that by then being a foundling. And I think there is some shame there of just feeling abandoned and feeling like he doesn’t have anyone that loves him or looks out for him, which is really quite sad really.

And I think Alphy’s way of dealing with that is just ignoring it and just trying to move forward in life and not think about the past and not think about the reasons why his parents didn’t ever want him and just keep moving forward. And I think it’s only when he goes back to the foundling home that he has to revisit this past. And I think the letter that Potts gives him at the end of the episode from his mother, I think is, it’s a strange one for Alphy because I think he, in a way he’s kind of getting an answer to maybe a question he’s always asked his whole life of like, why did my parents leave me? But on the flip side, he’s already come to terms with not having that answer and he’s at peace with it.

And so this letter is kind of, I guess, a can of worms and it’s whether he wants to open that can of worms and go into that because he knows that it probably just won’t end there. It’s going to be deep and there are going to be more questions that come from getting this one answer. And so yeah, trying to portray that, I think for me in Episode Four, as an actor, was just trying to portray the kind of emotional vulnerability that Alphy has. I think that was important to get across because I don’t think we’d seen that from him before. And the struggle of telling Geordie the truth.

But then, like you said, even that line that he says that even though he has this shame about it, he still feels very proud of his upbringing and he defends Potts and he really wants to give these children a chance in life because he was once one of those. And so, yes, there’s shame, but he’s also very proud of it. And he wants, I guess at the moment he tells Geordie, he wants Geordie to know and this is who I am and he puts all his cards out on the table.

Jace Lacob: Potts is the closest thing that Alphy’s ever known to a father, and I think it’s telling that Alphy follows this surrogate father into the church, that he too receives a calling. What role do you think the Church of England played in his life as a child? Was it, as in the form of Potts, sort of this stabilizing influence that he looked for or craved?

Rishi Nair: Yeah, I think it was definitely Potts that brought him into this world of the Church of England and into this world of faith. And I think, like you said, it kind of goes to this nature-nurture thing, that he’s been nurtured by Potts. That’s all he’s ever known. He’s literally from a baby, been born in this orphanage, brought up in this church with Potts.

And so I think in a way there’s only one way he can go towards at the beginning of his life. Obviously, once he gets older, he has a decision to make or whether he wants to, people grow up in families like that and they either are very religious or they’re not. And I think Alphy just goes with what life’s thrown at him. And actually, he finds a purpose in there. And he finds himself, I guess, a calling from God. And I think because he was left at the orphanage and brought up there, Alphy kind of has this thing that was almost meant to be, like it was a calling from God, he was meant to be there. And now he feels a responsibility of giving that to others. So I think, yeah, Reverend Potts has absolutely shaped Alphy’s life. I think he’s made him who he is and I think Alphy’s very grateful for that.

Jace Lacob: There is so much emotion in this episode. We learn over the course of Episode Four that Nurse Butcher is Alphy’s childhood friend Gwen, with whom he grew up at the Foundling home. And you and Mariah Gale have this beautiful scene together.

 

CLIP

Geordie: So you were…

Nurse Butcher: I was collecting helicopter seeds.

Alphy: You still do that?

Nurse Butcher: For the children to play with, Alphy. I’m curious, some of us want to stay forever and some of us go far, far away, like you did.

Alphy: That doesn’t mean I haven’t thought about—

Nurse Butcher: Don’t say that. Don’t say something that isn’t true.

Alphy: Well, it is true.

Nurse Butcher: I know what Potts told you, the day you left. “Go. Don’t look back.”

 

Jace Lacob: What does Alphy make of Gwen’s statement that he never looked back? Does it sting at all?

Rishi Nair: I think it does, yeah. I think Alphy hasn’t looked back. And he’s really taken that and run with it. And I think Alphy’s kind of just quite selfishly as I guess you would in that situation, you’re trying to make something of your life and so you think about yourself and you take that advice of don’t look back, and he never has. And I guess because he’s never done that, he’s never actually really thought about the people that he’s left behind because he’s so focused on moving forward.

In Episode Four when he comes back and he meets his childhood friend Gwen, and she says that to him, I think it’s a real kind of stab in the heart because I think it’s the first time Alphy has thought about the people he left behind. And you see that Gwen has actually dedicated her whole life to this orphanage because that’s what gave her life. And Alphy feels like, I think he feels quite guilty at this point in time because even though he is giving back to his community, he’s kind of left everyone behind that he grew up with. And you know, Potts is there and Gwen’s there and things are not going great for them, and here Alphy comes in his red Triumph. So yeah, I think it’s definitely a lot of guilt, and I think it’s the first time he’s ever truthfully thought about the people he’s left behind. I think he’s been so focused on just moving on with his life that he hasn’t even given them a second thought before.

Jace Lacob: He has grown past these experiences to find a confidence and an optimism that are at odds with his upbringing. But at the same time, Potts has this letter, which we mentioned earlier from Alphy’s mum that was entrusted to him, but he never gave it to Alphy. And Alphy realizes it does connect to those words to “don’t look back.”

 

CLIP

Potts: Is everything alright?

Alphy: I wanted to ask you something, actually. Did my mother leave me anything?

Potts: Your mother. She did. She did leave you something.

Alphy: Why have you never given this to me?

Potts: It was never out of malice, Alphy. It was out of love.

Alphy: “Don’t look back.”

Potts: Well, maybe this is one time when you do. You just take care, you just take great care of yourself. There’s no rush, Alphy. It’s waited all this time for you. It can wait a little longer. Open it when you’re ready. Whenever that may be.

 

Jace Lacob: Does Alphy see it as a kindness that Potts concealed this from him, or would it perhaps have answered some questions for Alphy earlier, questions that maybe he needed answering?

Rishi Nair: I think at the point in time when he finds out about the letter, Alphy doesn’t think that there was any kindness involved. He obviously knows Potts is not a bad person and I think he understands the reason why Potts did that. But his first initial reaction I think, is anger, this kind of anger of, you shouldn’t have made that decision for me. I should have been given this letter and I should have made a decision whether I wanted to open it or not. So yeah, I think anger is his first feeling towards Potts.

I think with time, as time goes on, he kind of realizes the reasons why Potts did that and it was because it was “look forward, don’t look back.” And yeah, I guess maybe getting this letter when Alphy was younger would’ve helped him. I don’t know, maybe it wouldn’t have. It’s hard to know, but it’s certain that it’s affecting him now, having this letter. We kind of spoke about it earlier, how it affects his relationships with other people, with Geordie and with Meg.

And it kind of spirals him out of control a little bit, once he gets that letter. We cut back to him a few times, kind of holding this letter, not knowing whether to open it or not. And I think it’s just that realization of once that letter’s open, you’ve got to deal with whatever’s in there. And whether Alphy’s ready to deal with that, he’s not so sure of.

Jace Lacob: And once he opens that door, he can’t really close it again.

Rishi Nair: Exactly.

Jace Lacob: This letter becomes this invasive thing in his life. There is such sadness to Alphy as he leaves the home, this heavy weight that he’s now carrying in the form of this letter. He embraces Gwen, but when it’s time, he doesn’t hug Potts, he doesn’t say anything to Potts, but simply walks past him and tellingly, he does not look back. But there’s so much emotion that cascades across your face. What is Alphy feeling here in this moment of leaving this home once again?

Rishi Nair: Yeah, I think you’re right in terms of there’s so much going on for Alphy at this point. It’s so hard to describe it as one emotion, but there’s anger towards Potts for not giving him the letter, which I think is the reason why he doesn’t hug him. He feels like he feels like he’s been lied to and betrayed and like I said, he’s just got the letter before he leaves, so emotions are very heightened at this point in time. I would imagine that if Alphy was to leave the next morning, he probably would’ve had time to think it over and he probably would’ve hugged Reverend Potts when he left.

But at this point in time, I think it’s so raw that he doesn’t want to speak to him, he doesn’t want to talk about it. And yeah, he leaves. He leaves and he doesn’t look back. And there is a real sadness to that. But he does say to Gwen, if you are ever in Grantchester, come and visit me. So, I think what’s quite nice about this episode is that Alphy now has actually gone back and we see his past and he’s gone back into his past and he’s picked out some good things there. And even when he’s in the orphanage and he’s going around and, “this was my room”, I think there’s some peace maybe of going back and just living in that space that he’d obviously grown up with.

But yeah, obviously this letter that he has is weighing very heavy on him, and I think that’s kind of at the forefront of his mind when he’s leaving the orphanage is, I came here to deal with something, but I’m actually coming back home with a much, much bigger problem that I now have to make a decision about.

Jace Lacob: But he doesn’t, he locks it away in a drawer to be opened perhaps later. He has a piece of his history in the form of this letter. He’s locked it away. We’ve learned the truth about his past. What lies ahead for Alphy’s arc in the back half of Series 10?

Rishi Nair: There’s obviously the letter. We’re going to find out whether he opens it or not, and if he does what it contains. And then obviously going into the second half of the season, we’ve met Meg at the beginning of the season and obviously there’s sparks there. They try to deny it, but there is. Then we find out that Meg is actually, in fact, the daughter of the Bishop, but then they still try and give it a go. But we’re going to see what happens with Meg, whether that actually happens or not.

And obviously there’s something going on with Leonard that people have started to realize. And obviously Leonard is one of Alphy’s very close friends. And so that’s also something that is on Alphy’s mind and I think he needs to deal with alongside his friend Geordie, of course.

Jace Lacob: We’ll see what happens. Rishi Nair, thank you so very much.

Rishi Nair: Thank you very much.

 

Next time, Larry Peters is forced to lay down the law.

 

CLIP

Larry: The landlord says you’ve had a skinful. He’s asked you to leave multiple times and you’ve been, in his words, belligerent.

Leonard: I’m not belligerent. I’m full of umbrage, yes. I’m umbraceous. I’m umbraged, sir! But belligerent, I don’t believe so, no.

Larry: The landlord wants you to leave quietly. If you don’t leave quietly, I’m going to have to arrest you.

 

In two weeks, actor Bradley Hall joins us to unpack this momentous season for his character, Larry Peters.