Rep. Ayanna Pressley: Detained Tufts Student Is a “Political Prisoner”

MICHEL MARTIN: Thanks Christiane. Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, thank you so much for talking with us.

REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY: Course. Good to be with you again.

MARTIN: Congresswoman, you and a small group of other lawmakers recently traveled to the immigration detention center in Louisiana. How did that trip come about?

PRESSLEY: Well, first, let me just say I’ve long done work in the criminal legal reform space. So I have visited our carceral settings throughout my nearly seven years in congress, prisons, jails, detention facilities. And the moment that Rümeysa Öztürk – my Somerville constituent, a Tufts graduate student – was kidnapped in broad daylight – I mean, she was this was during Ramadan. She was on her way to an Iftar to break her fast, so, you know, hungry. And she was you know, physically accosted by plain clothed masked men. She had recently been doxed, and so she thought this had something to do with her having been doxed.
And she is you know, taken away, handcuffed later shackled and then taken some thousand plus miles away, defying a judge’s order, denied her constitutional rights of due process, charged with no crime. Disappeared from the Somerville community and, and her neighbors and, and ripped away from her life simply for co-authoring an op-ed that centered the humanity of the Palestinian people. And so, since I’ve long done the work of oversight of our carceral settings, once she was kidnapped and ostensibly a political prisoner, I knew I would find my way to rural Louisiana.

MARTIN: How, how is she doing?

PRESSLEY: I was stunned by the way in which she was comporting herself in the midst of this. She shared stories of her own experience, and that are the other women that she’s detained alongside with of just inadequate medical care. Rümeysa is a asthma sufferer. She uses two medications a day to treat her asthma. And because she was denied due process she was abducted across, you know, state lines a thousand plus miles away from her home without those essential medications. So she had suffered several severe asthma attacks while being confined at the Basile Detention Facility in rural Louisiana.
Inadequate, so inadequate medical care limited religious accommodation. And, and in fact a nurse removed her hijab without consent. Sleep deprivation, deprivation, frigid temperatures. The thing that I was most struck by with Rümeysa is that she knew we were there for her. But she made no appeals on her behalf except to ask for our prayers for her. She spent the time advocating for the other women. And because she is a graduate student and a qualified researcher, she came to that meeting with copious notes that she had taken of awful stories. Of, of women that are in this facility that are battling breast cancer and not receiving adequate treatment of pregnant women in this facility that are not receiving the essential prenatal care that they need of, of near miscarriages. So she spent the lion’s share of that time advocating for others and she also said that as someone who has worked, traveled the globe and worked with refugees, that she was in shock that a facility like this even existed in our country.

MARTIN: You’ve said repeatedly that she was kidnapped. We saw that she was physically accosted. The Trump administration has said or let’s say this: the Department of Homeland Security, commenting on the arrest itself, has been claiming that she “engaged in activities in support of Hamas” unquote. How do you respond to that? What do you think that means?

PRESSLEY: Because she was denied constitutional, her constitutional rights, and there was no due process there was never, there’s no evidence of wrongdoing. She’s been charged with no crime. Whatever assertions they maintain had she been provided with her day in court then they could have presented those findings. But again, all she did as co-author, an op-ed centering the humanity of Palestinian people. And wherever you fall on that issue – I mean, it’s my belief that our destinies are inextricably tied Americans, Israelis, and Palestinians – but wherever you fall on that, you cannot deny her right to say what she believes. That is just a matter of free speech. And every person of conscience again, even if you disagree with her, you should support her right to say it, because that is just fundamental to who we are as Americans. And every person of conscience should find what happened to Ozturk chilling.

MARTIN: The administration’s argument that they have made without reservation, is that non-citizens have different standards of due process. I mean, the president has made that clear in his opinion, Secretary of State has made that clear, representatives from Homeland Security have insisted that non-citizens have different level of due process rights. So could you explain why you say that people should care about this, ’cause this could happen to anybody?

PRESSLEY: Well, and, and Donald Trump’s interpretation of the Constitution and our laws is you know, wildly inaccurate and, and actually unlawful. And that is why our best defensive strategies has been litigation in the courts because this has never been about law and order. This has never been about immigration. This has been about power and control. The Trump administration and their anti-free agenda that wants to control what you write in an op-ed, what books you read, and what you do with your own body. And so, when I say that everyone should care about this, I think people of conscience, anyone who calls this country home should care about those constitutional rights to due process for any person who calls this country home. And her rights were violated.
But moreover, she’s been charged with no crime. And if her only so-called crime is having co-authored an op-ed centering the humanity of all people, then this could be anyone. 

MARTIN: Lemme just point out that Secretary of State Marco Rubio has invoked the Immigration and Nationality Act, which he says, gives him the authority to deport an alien whose, quote, “presence or activities could have serious foreign policy consequences for America,” unquote. The argument seems to be that these demonstrations that some people have participated in, perhaps Rümeysa Ozturk’s, op-ed, I don’t know, is – has serious foreign policy consequences. So for people who think that that could be true, what do you say?

PRESSLEY: Even if you disagree with what someone is saying or writing or a position that they’ve taken, you have to, as a person of conscience, as anyone who calls this country home, as an American, affirm their right to say it. It’s just free speech. And so this is a, a, a frightening foundational floor that is being said. And as I said you know, and, and a bellwether of, of things to come. And that’s why I have been so encouraged by the public outcry. The number of people who have, who have rallied, who have, who have lobbied, who have applied pressure. I want people to know that, you know, a dictator like Donald Trump, what they want is a citizenry that is ignorant and uninformed. They want a citizenry that is indifferent to the suffering of their neighbors, and they want a citizenry that’s inactive. And when it comes to my constituent Rümeysa Ozturk being kidnapped and now a political prisoner, I’ve been heartened by the fact that people have been informed about her rights. They have not been indifferent. And they have been very active in their mobilization. 

MARTIN: Next step here, though, what is the next step here? 

PRESSLEY: You know, we’re in regular communication with her legal counsel – and a judge has ordered that she’d be removed from Louisiana and that she’d be moved to Vermont. And, and again, she, she was taken to Louisiana on purpose. It is one of the most highly incarcerated states in the country. And what I heard from many women that are detained there is that they often cannot get legal counsel, because if you call someone and say that you’re at Basile, a detention facility in Louisiana, they, they will hang up on you because the chances are so bleak that you will have a fair process. And that you will be able to to be freed. And so, from the very beginning, what we’ve been advocating for is for Rumesa to be freed and for her student visa which was revoked to be reinstated. We’re encouraged by this recent ruling by the judge for her to be moved from Louisiana to Vermont. And we’ll see if the Trump administration honors the judge’s ruling.

MARTIN: As a candidate for this second term, the president made it very clear that he wanted to have a mass deportation regime. Many people sounded the alarm then, including yourself. But overall do you think that Democrats are offering an alternative, a credible alternative to what, to what the President and his administration are doing? 

PRESSLEY: I‘ll tell you the way I see it. I believe you know, Democrats have often operated with scared power, and scared power isn’t power at all. Now, Donald Trump has made it very plain that he wants the power. He wants to amass the power. He wants to wield the power. Hell, he wants to abuse the power. Which is why we went to rural Louisiana, because we can’t allow those abuses to go unchecked. We can’t operate as if this dark dystopian view that Donald Trump has for this country is an inevitability. So we have to resist and reject it at every single turn. And I, and you do see Democrats doing that. I’m certainly doing that. 

And I think as important as it is that we blunt the harms of this administration, we still have to, to be intentional about an affirmative vision. Because the most compelling argument cannot be, We’re not Donald Trump. We have to affirm who we are. And so what I see and hear from people in community every day is that they don’t want us to moderate our aspirations. That they want us to do everything possible to protect them in this moment. 

So Democrats have employed this defensive strategy of litigation, legislation, agitation and mobilization. And every time I say legislation, people say, but you all are in the minority. What can you do? Well, first of all, we only need three or four Republicans of conscience to actually vote with us, and we can stop a lot of this harm.
And then more recently, we have a discharge petition which forces a vote in the House. So that would force our Republican colleagues to go on the record. This discharge petition is called Hands Off Medicaid and SNAP. They keep saying that they’re not, there’s no plans to cut Medicaid or to cut SNAP which is as they – it’s fake news because there’s no way that you can do a trillion dollars in cuts and not cut critical safety net programs that are a lifeline to people. It’s impossible. And in fact, the Congressional Budget Office, which is an independent entity here, has confirmed that. So our strategy is to make them wear it.
And then secondly, we have to continue to make an affirmative case. That’s why I’m not going to stop fighting for universal childcare, for paid leave, for reparations. People want us to advance policies that go as far and as deep as the hurt. And that’s how Democrats win. We don’t win when we communicate in slide decks while Republicans are communicating in headlines. We win when people know what we’re doing for them, because they feel the impact every day.

MARTIN: And how do you, how do you understand the fact that, at least as far as the polling is concerned, people aren’t giving Democrats high marks either. And in fact, in some of the town halls, constituents have been really angry. They feel like the Democrats aren’t fighting hard enough. 

PRESSLEY: Yeah, again one of the reasons why I believe we’re in this situation and why we lost is that when Democrats have had the part– had the power, when we had the trifecta, we didn’t use it. You know, it’s,  it’s very challenging to, to build the coalition and the movement that we need to, to get the mantle, to get the gavel back so that we can stop this harm. If they question, Well, what will you do even when you have the gavel? And so that’s why it’s important that we’re not only actively blunting the harms of this, of this hostile Trump administration in the midst of this hostile government takeover, but also that we continue to advance and speak to an affirmative vision for this country. And you know, I do believe that we are making strides. But none of it is going to happen quickly enough. And so whatever you offer as an elected in this moment feels like it’s falling woefully short because —

MARTIN: Is that because Democrats are too timid?

PRESSLEY: I don’t think that’s about timidity. It’s about the reality of the circumstance we find ourselves in, of a hostile administration that has no regard for the rule of law for the Constitution and has contempt for every person who calls this country home. ?
And you know, people – one of the things that really burns me is whatever Democrats are in the minority I’ll be asked, well, do you think there’s the opportunity for anything bipartisanship? That’s never – I’m like…bipartisanship? Where’s the party to be bipartisan with? My house colleagues across the aisle are not operating like a party; they’re operating like a cult, a cult of cowards, that are being complicit in wholesale arm. If anything, people need to be more strident and specific in their grievance. It’s the Republicans that refuse to have town halls and to be accountable to you. It’s the Republicans in this budget reconciliation in our committee hearings that are sitting silently. It is constituents and Republican districts that are reaching out to MY office because they can’t get a response from their own Republican representatives,. And so that’s the work that we have to do in earnest right now, and that’s why you see Democrats going into Republican districts and doing town halls —

MARTIN: And having town halls. Have you – but it is not – look, the president has made it clear, and has been making it clear for some time, even before he took office, that his approach would be basically to flood the zone, right? Flood the zone. And they’re doing that. Executive orders, about, you know, just about everything you can imagine, as well as a very sort of comprehensive approach to governance,  So given the fact that there has been this sort of aggressive push toward policy making. Do you think that Democrats have presented a, I guess I would say a, a coherent response and one that actually meets the moment? And if not, why not? Is it just –

PRESSLEY: Well, It’s, it’s emergent. I mean, the thing is this moment requires us to be nimble. You know as a student of history, it’s been my experience and observation that every great movement requires three things: imagination, strategy, and stamina. And we need all three. We have to offer an imagination, an affirmative view for a country that is in stark contrast to Donald Trump’s America. We need to be strategic, so we have to be innovative and nimble. And then we have to have the stamina for this fight. We have to litigate, we have to legislate, we have to agitate, we have to mobilize. We have to do disruptive things that we’ve never done before.
Now, look, I occupied the house steps under the leadership of Congresswoman Cori Bush when she was here to try to stave off any, rather to advocate for an eviction moratorium. And then you saw recently Hakeem Jeffries  and Cory Booker took to the house steps in a rejection of our Medicaid cuts. (35:35) You see Senator Sanders and Representative Ocasio-Cortez doing Stop the Oligarchy tours in places like Idaho, where tens of thousands of people are showing up. You see, you know, myself and others having traveled from El Salvador to Louisiana to visit detention facilities. We have to do things that we’ve never done before. We have to be disruptive. We have to be bold, we have to be unapologetic. We have to match their energy, they’re flooding the zone, and we have to do the very same thing. 

MARTIN: Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, thank you so much for talking with us.

PRESSLEY: Thank you.