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>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY. "
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
HOPE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AS ISRAEL AND HAMAS AGREE TO A GAZA CEASEFIRE AND HOSTAGE RELEASE DEAL.
A REPORT FROM EGYPT WHERE TALKS WERE BROKERED.
AND WHAT THIS MOMENT FEELS LIKE FOR HOSTAGE FAMILIES.
SHARON LIFSCHITZ, WHOSE PARENTS HELD CAPTIVE JOINS ME.
JUBILATION IN GAZA.
HOW PALESTINIANS ARE REACTING AFTER TWO YEARS OF BRUTAL WAR.
THEN THE ART OF DIPLOMACY, WHAT'S INVOLVED IN SECURING AND PRESERVING THIS FRAGILE PEACE WITH KEY EXPERTS AND VETERAN NEGOTIATORS FROM THE REGION.
ALSO AHEAD, EUROPE WELCOMES THE DEAL AND CALLS TO IMPLEMENT THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
FORMER FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO THE UK SYLVIE BERMANN ON THOSE CHALLENGES AHEAD.
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> >> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY --THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
>> MONIQUE.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.
COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
>> I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
THE SUN ROSE THIS MORNING OVER A DIFFERENT MIDDLE EAST, ONE BRIMMING WITH JOY AND RELIEF THAT ISRAEL'S BRUTAL WAR ON GAZA MAY FINALLY BE OVER AND ALL THE HAMAS HELD ISRAELI HOSTAGES DEAD AND ALIVE MY COME HOME.
LISTEN TO THIS MAN IN KHAN YUNIS.
>> THANK GOD FOR THE CEASEFIRE.
THE END OF THE BLOODSHED AND KILLING.
I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE HAPPY.
ALL OF THE GAZA STRIP IS HAPPY.
ALL ARAB PEOPLE ARE HAPPY.
ALL OF THE WORLD IS HAPPY WITH THE CEASEFIRE AND END OF THE BLOODSHED.
THANK YOU AND ALL THE LOVE TO THOSE WHO STOOD WITH US.
>> AND THESE ARE THE PARENTS OF A MAN ABDUCTED BY HAMAS FOR 11 MONTHS AND THEN EXECUTED.
>> TODAY HAS COMPLICATIONS BECAUSE SO MANY IN THIS REGION HAVE PAID THE HEAVIEST PRICE.
FOR TODAY WE CELEBRATE.
WE EMBRACE ALL THOSE FAMILIES WHO WILL BE REUNITED WITH THEIR LOVED ONES AND WE LOOK AHEAD TOWARDS BETTER, MORE HOPEFUL, MORE PEACEFUL DAYS.
>> WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE COMING DAYS AND WE ANTICIPATE THE GREAT NEWS.
SO KEEP PRAYING THE WORK IS NOT DONE.
AND WE'LL FINALLY GET TO TAKE OFF OUR STICKERS AND USE OUR TAPE AS TAPE.
>> ISRAEL AND HAMAS ACCEPTED THE FIRST PHASE OF TRUMP'S DEAL WHICH CALLS FOR AN IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF HOSTILITIES AND ALL HOSTAGES COMING BACK WITHIN 72 HOURS.
ISRAEL WILL ALSO FREE HUNDREDS OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS ALONG WITH 1,700 PEOPLE FROM GAZA WHO WERE DETAINED AFTER OCTOBER 7th.
AND AID DELIVERIES WILL RESUME AT A LEVEL CONSISTENT WITH PREVIOUS CEASEFIRES.
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID IN A CABINET MEETING TODAY HE IS PLANNING TO TRAVEL TO THE REGION TO MARK THE OCCASION AND LAST NIGHT ON FOX NEWS HE GAVE US A BIT OF HIS PRIVATE CONVERSATION WITH ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU.
>> I SPOKE TO BIBI NETANYAHU A LITTLE WHILE AGO.
HE CALLED, SAID I CAN'T BELIEVE IT.
HE IS SAID EVERYBODY IS LIKING ME, MEANING HIM.
I SAID MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY ARE LOVING ISRAEL AGAIN.
AND THEY REALLY ARE.
I SAID, ISRAEL CANNOT FIGHT THE WORLD, BIBI, THEY CAN'T FIGHT THE WORLD.
AND HE UNDERSTANDS THAT VERY WELL.
SO IT'S AMAZING THE WAY IT'S COME TOGETHER AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT COULD EVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
>> AFTER TWO YEARS OF AGONY, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS DEAD, GAZA TURNED RUBBLE AND ISRAELI HOSTAGES STILL HELD CAPTIVE, THIS IS INDEED A MAJOR STEP.
BUT IT IS THE FIRST STEP AND THERE ARE STILL MANY MILES TO WALK LIKE HAMAS DISARMAMENT, A FULL ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL AND THE FUTURE GOVERNANCE OF GAZA.
NIC ROBERTSON, WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS FROM CAIRO, AND HE IS JOINING ME WITH THE LATEST.
THAT'S BECAUSE, NEW ENGLAND, THAT'S WHERE THE DELEGATIONS WERE IN EGYPT TO GET THIS HAMMERED OUT?
>> THEY WERE.
IN FACT, WE UNDERSTAND THAT HAMAS AND THE MEDIATORS WERE MEETING TODAY CONTINUING ON THE RED SEA TO HAMMER OUT MORE DETAILS INVOLVED IN THIS VERY SORT OF PARTIAL PART OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S 20 POINT PEACE PLAN, THE CEASEFIRE, HOSTAGE RELEASE AND PALESTINIAN PRISONER RELEASE.
THE PALESTINIAN PRISONER RELEASE WAS ONE OF THE DETAILS BEING DISCUSSED WITH NEGOTIATORS.
THE PALESTINIANS, HAMAS WANT SOME HIGH LEVEL POLITICAL FIGURES RELEASED AMONGST ALL THESE DETAINEES.
IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT ISRAEL WILL OFFER THAT.
AT THIS MOMENT THAT'S A QUESTION THAT'S GOING TO ISRAEL SECURITY CABINET, WHICH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS CHAIRING AT THE MOMENT.
THE DETAILS ON THAT WE DON'T KNOW.
ANOTHER POINT THAT WAS STILL BEING DISCUSSED WAS THE HANDOVER OF ALL OF THE HOSTAGES LIVING AND DECEASED BECAUSE HAMAS SAYS THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE ALL THE DECEASED ARE, WHERE ALL THE REMAINS ARE.
SO THESE ARE NOT STUMBLING BLOCKS PER SE THAT WILL BRING IT ALL DOWN, BUT IT'S INDICATIVE OF JUST HOW QUICK THE HEADLINE ANNOUNCEMENT WAS MADE ABOUT PHASE ONE WHEN EVEN DETAILS OF IT WEREN'T FULLY THRASHED OUT.
AT THE SAME TIME, SO MANY OTHER DETAILS YOU JUST MENTIONED, ANOTHER ONE MIGHT BE THE INTERNATIONAL IMPLEMENTING STABILITY FORCE THAT COMES IN WHEN THEY COME IN, THE IDF MOVES OUT OF GAZA.
BUT IN THE INTERIM, IS IT THE IDF THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE INVOLVED IN DISARMING HAMAS OR DOES THE IDF PULL BACK WITH HAMAS STILL WITH THEIR WEAPONS?
AND THAT FALLS TO THE INTERNATIONAL BODY.
THERE ARE SO MANY TROUBLING DIFFERENT COMPLEX SEQUENTIAL ISSUES THAT WE'RE YET TO LEARN ABOUT.
>> YEAH.
I MEAN, I HEAR YOU.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER AND THAT WE SAW FLASH ON THE WIRES WAS HAMAS INSISTING ON A FORMAL DECLARATION TO THE END OF THE WAR.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S GOING TO COME.
THAT'S SOMETHING THEY WANTED ALL ALONG, RIGHT, THEY WANTED, YOU KNOW, IN RETURN FOR WHATEVER THEY AGREE, AN END TO THE WAR SO THAT NETANYAHU DOESN'T START IT UP AGAIN.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS STILL UNDER CONSIDERATION?
COULD IT BE A STUMBLING BLOCK?
>> WE DON'T KNOW.
PRESIDENT TRUMP TODAY SAID WHEN HE COMES TO EGYPT HE WILL BE SIGNING A DOCUMENT.
IN THE TEXT OF THAT DOCUMENT, IS HE PUTTING HIS NAME TO GUARANTEES, ARE MEDIATORS PUTTING THEIR NAMES TO SOME KINDS OF FORMAL GUARANTEE THAT AMOUNTS TO REINFORCING THE FACT THAT ISRAEL CAN'T GO BACK TO WAR, WHICH WOULD UNDERPIN A FORMAL DECLARATION OF AN END OF WAR.
NOT JUST A CEASEFIRE BEING DISCUSSED AT THE MOMENT.
IS THAT FORMAL DECLARATION AS YOU SAY THAT HAMAS SAYS IS SO IMPORTANT THAT ALLOWS THEM TO GIVE UP THE HOSTAGES, WHICH ALL ALONG HAVE BEEN THEIR LEVERAGE, THEIR BIG FEAR OF COURSE IF THEY GIVE UP THE HOSTAGES, ISRAEL DO GO BACK TO WAR AND THEY WANT THAT INTERNATIONAL BACKING.
SO I THINK WHEN WE UNDERSTAND AND SEE THE DETAILS OF THE DOCUMENT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNS WE WILL GET MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE EXACT LANGUAGE AND UNDERSTAND BETTER HOW MUCH HAMAS IS TAKING AND HOW MUCH PRESSURE ISRAEL IS UNDER TO CONFORM TO WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM.
HAMAS CERTAINLY BRIEFING ITS AUDIENCE AND ITS PUBLIC THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN THESE MOVES --THEY SAY OVER AND ABOVE ALL OTHER WISHES, WHICH IMPLIES ISSUES OF THEIR OWN ARMAMENT, ISSUES OF THEIR OWN --.
>> THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU HEARD THE NEWS OF THE NIGHT?
>> I THINK IT WASHES THROUGH YOUR BODY, THE WISH FOR IT, AND I THINK WHEN YOU HEAR IT, YOU START FEELING HOW MUCH IT SITS ON YOU.
AND SO I CAN'T SAY I'M HAPPY, BUT I CAN FEEL IT IN MY BODY THAT MAYBE SOONER WE'LL SEE THE MOTHERS THAT HAVE THEIR SONS ALIVE COMING BACK TO THEM, AND THEN WE WILL HAVE, HOPEFULLY, 28 FUNERALS AND IT'S NOT AN EASY WORLD TO WISH FOR 28 FUNERALS, BUT THIS IS WHERE WE ARE HEADING.
AND THEN WE WOULD START FEELING OUR LOSS.
WE HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME TO REALLY FEEL OUR LOSS AND TO KNOW THAT OUR LOVED ONES, THE 42 FAMILIES WHOSE LOVED ONES ARE ALIVE IN GAZA AND WERE MURDERED WHILE IN CAPTIVITY, WE NEVER STARTED THE RECKONING FOR THAT.
THERE IS A LOT OF STEPS ALONG THE WAY STILL.
>> I ASSUME YOU HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH YOUR MOTHER TODAY.
HOW IS SHE FEELING ABOUT THIS?
BECAUSE HER RELEASE WAS SOMETHING REALLY SPECIAL IN EVERY ASPECT.
>> MY MOM IS VERY EXCITED.
MY MOM CONTINUALLY WOULD SAY TO ANYONE SHE IS AS LONG AS THE OTHER HOSTAGES ARE STILL IN THE TUNNELS.
I THINK SHE CAN SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS TUNNEL NOW.
WE HAVE TO GET THERE.
WE HAVEN'T GOT THERE YET.
IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
I THINK THE ISSUE WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE HERSELF A MOMENT.
>> AND YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE REMAINS OF THE 28 FUNERALS.
YOU SAY YOUR FATHER DID NOT SURVIVE.
HE WAS KILLED AND HE CAME BACK AND YOU BURIED HIM.
WHAT --HAVE YOU TALKED TO OTHERS LIKE YOU WHO KNOW THAT THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE NOT SURVIVED?
>> YES, MANY.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE MAIN CONVERSATION I AM HAVING TODAY.
IT'S A VERY TOUGH MOMENT.
IT'S A VERY, VERY TOUGH THING TO KNOW THAT THERE WERE DECISIONS THAT WERE TAKEN BY THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL THAT MEANT THAT OUR LOVED ONES DID NOT SURVIVE.
AND ALL OF US ARE UNITED IN THE WISH FOR ALL OF THE LIVE ONES TO RETURN.
BUT WE ARE LEFT WITH A VERY BROKEN HEART.
MY FATHER WAS 83, HAD A FULL LIFE.
HOW DO YOU RECONCILE WITH YOUR YOUNG CHILD, WITH YOUR TEENAGER, WITH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO HAD THE LIFETIME STILL AHEAD OF THEM.
AND LOST THIS LIFE.
>> YOU KNOW, YOU WERE AMAZING FROM THE BEGINNING BECAUSE EVEN THROUGH THAT PAIN AND THROUGH YOUR PARENTS AND I SUPPOSE YOUR EDUCATION AS YOU GREW UP WATCHING THEM, YOU WERE A PEACE ACTIVIST, YOU WERE A PEACENIK, IF I COULD SAY THAT.
YOU BELIEVED THAT ACROSS THE BORDER THERE NEEDED TO BE --OR ACROSS THE FENCE THERE NEEDED TO BE SOME KIND OF NO THE JUST CEASEFIRE, BUT RECONCILIATION IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO LIVE AS, YOU KNOW, DIGNIFIED PEOPLE WITH SOVEREIGNTY ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.
I WONDER WHETHER YOU STILL THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE AND WHETHER YOUR MOM, YOU KNOW, STILL HOLDS ON TO THAT HOPE?
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO ALWAYS SEPARATE BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS AND INDIVIDUALS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE FAITH IN THE POSSIBILITY OF A BELIEF IN SOMETHING BETTER.
I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT STAGES AND HAMAS BECAUSE IF HAMAS KEEP HOLD OF THE GAZA STRIP, THEN THE FUTURE FOR OUR NEIGHBOR IS NOT ANY BETTER.
HAMAS BROUGHT THEM HERE, BROUGHT THEM TO THEIR KNEES, BROUGHT UNTOLD SUFFERING, AND I HOPE FOR THEM THAT THE NEXT STAGES WILL MEAN THAT THERE WILL BE FREE TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS, TO HAVE A CHANGE OF LEADERSHIP ON BOTH SIDES SO THAT SOMETHING BETTER CAN COME OUT OF IT.
>> AND DO YOU --YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF PROTESTS, A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, TROUBLE AROUND PROTESTS DURING THIS WHOLE TWO YEARS, AND YOU HAVE SAID AND YOU WROTE IN THIS COLUMN THAT IT'S ONE THING TO WANT PA PEACE FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.
IT'S ANOTHER TO TREAT HAMAS AS SOME KIND OF --I CAN'T REMEMBER THE WORD YOU USED, BENIGN RESISTANCE MOVEMENT.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY OFFENDED BY SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS YOU HAVE BEEN HEARING.
>> HAMAS CAME TO MY COMMUNITY.
THEY TOOK 76 HOSTAGES AND THEY DESTROYED MOST OF THE HOUSES AND THEY KILLED 50.
SOME OF THEM IN THE MOST BRUTAL WAY POSSIBLE.
TORTURE.
UNBELIEVABLE SUFFERING.
IT'S HAMAS.
I SIT HERE AND I HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS ORGANIZATION AS IF THIS IS A DECENT WAY TO BEHAVE AS A HUMAN.
AND I CANNOT IMAGINE THAT ANYBODY WOULD IMAGINE THAT THAT IS A GOOD WAY FORWARD.
I HAVE NOT BEEN FOR MY GOVERNMENT.
I HAVE MADE CLEAR AND SO DID THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS, YOU KNOW, THE MAJORITY --THERE IS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IN THE STREET FOR TWO WEEKS, TWO YEARS, EVERY WEEK CAMPAIGNING FOR THE END OF THE WAR, THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES.
SO WE ARE NOT ALL OUR GOVERNMENT.
WE ARE NOT ALL --AND I THINK THAT IF WE CUT THROUGH US IN A DIFFERENT WAY, THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVE IN THE SANCTITY OF LIFE, THOSE OF US THAT BELIEVE IN WHATEVER CRAZY IDEA THEY BELIEVE IN, THEN WE HAVE A CHANCE OF COMING TOGETHER AND MAKING A REGION THAT IS FIT FOR PURPOSE.
FIT FOR LIFE.
>> YOU SAID EARLIER IN YOUR CONVERSATION THAT YOU RESENT VERY DEEPLY THE FACT THAT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN ENDED A WHILE AGO AND SOME OF THE NEGOTIATORS YOU HAVE SEEN GERSHON BASKIN AND OTHERS POSTING THIS DEAL, CLOSE TO IT, WAS AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, LAST --JUST THIS PAST JANUARY, IT WAS AVAILABLE LAST SEPTEMBER, AND YOUR GOVERNMENT DECIDED THAT IT WASN'T --THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GO FOR PEACE.
I WONDER HOW THIS RESOLVES IF ALL AT ONCE YOU GET YOUR FAMILIES BACK, ONCE ISRAEL IS ABLE TO GO THROUGH THE MOURNING AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO REDUCE THE TRAUMA, BUT DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE AN INTERNAL RECKONING?
>> I VERY MUCH HOPE SO.
I HOPE WE ARE NOT TOO TIRED.
I THINK THAT THIS GOVERNMENT IS USED OUR -- THE PLIGHT OF OUR PEOPLE FOR THE OWN PURPOSES.
THEY ARE STILL IN POWER AFTER TWO YEARS, AFTER THE WORST ATROCITY HAPPENED ON THE -- IN ISRAEL, AND THAT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF THE HOSTAGES.
THERE IS NO DOUBT.
THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN POWER IF THE HOSTAGES WERE RETURNED IN THE BEGINNING.
>> FINALLY, YOU WRITE AGAIN VERY MOVINGLY ABOUT YOUR MOTHER'S, I MEAN, VIRAL MOMENT, I HATE TO PUT IT THAT WAY, WHEN SHE TURNED AND SAID SHALOM TO HER HAMAS CHAPTER AS HE LET HER GO.
IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE MOMENT AND YET SOME PEOPLE DECIDED THAT IT WAS WHATEVER THEY THOUGHT IT WAS.
TO YOU IT WAS AN INSTINCT TO PEACE, ASSUME.
IS THAT WHAT YOU --YOU STILL THINK AND SHE STILL BELIEVES?
>> I THINK A LOT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, HAPPENING ONLINE, WHEN WE ARE NOT THERE IN SPIRIT, IN BODY, WE DON'T SEE THE HUMANITY OF EACH OTHER.
IT MAKES IT EASIER TO HATE.
IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE ALGORITHM TO PUSH US JUAN AOR ANOTHER.
AND MY MOM AT THAT MOMENT SAT IN FRONT OF A HUMAN BEING AND THEY HAD AN EXCHANGE AND SHE SAW HIS HUMANITY.
HE SAW HER.
IF WE ARE NOT BLINDED BY HATE, WE CAN SEE EACH OTHER'S HUMANITY.
THAT COMPLICATES THINGS BUT ALSO MAKES IT HUMAN.
>> SUCH AN IMPORTANT MOMENT.
AND I WISH THE BEST FOR YOU.
YOU GAVE ME THIS.
YOUR BROTHER MADE IT, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> MY BROTHER, YEAH.
>> THE YELLOW CACTUS.
>> YOU ARE IN GOOD COMPANY.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH.
>> I HAVE BEEN WEARING IT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THIS IS, HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY, A GOOD DAY FOR YOU ALL AND, HOPEFULLY, IT WILL LEAD TO THE RELEASE OF EVERYBODY.
AND, HOPEFULLY, IT WILL LEAD TO PEACE.
THE WORLD IS NOW IMPLICATED AND INVOLVED AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PUT ALL HIS MIGHT BEHIND THIS AND, HOPEFULLY, HE CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE IT A PROPER ENDING.
>> I THINK IT'S THE FIRST STAGE AND WE MUST PUSH TOWARDS THE NEXT STAGES.
>> LET'S HOPE.
THANK YOU, SHARON FOR EVERYTHING.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO AS WE MENTIONED, AFTER TWO YEARS OF BRUTAL WAR AND AT LEAST 67,000 PEOPLE KILLED, THOSE IN GAZA ARE BREATHING A SIGH OF RELIEF AS WELL.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE GUNS HAVE NOT STOPPED FIRING YET AND TODAY ISRAELI TANKS WERE SEEN OPENING UP ON CIVILIANS MOVING NORTH BUT THE IDF SAYS THEY ARE FIRING SMOKE BOMBS TO KEEP PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE FORCES.
LET'S BRING IN WEST BANK POLICY LEAD FOR OXFAM BUSHRA KHALIDI WHO JOINS ME AND NOUR ALSAQQA, COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER FOR MSF, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS FROM GAZA ON THE PHONE.
FIRST, HOW ARE YOU FEELING?
WHAT IS THE, YOU KNOW, SENTIMENT AMONGST PEOPLE THERE?
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO GET COMMUNICATIONS WITH GAZA TODAY.
SO THANKS FOR BEING WITH US ON THE PHONE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
HONESTLY, THE SITUATION IS STILL VERY VAGUE.
PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, EVERYONE IS STILL VERY HESITANT TO CELEBRATE THE CEASEFIRE.
IT'S BEEN VERY CLEAR --PEOPLE'S REACTION ACROSS THE STRIP TODAY.
SOME PEOPLE --A BIT.
BUT FOR THE MAJORITY, IT IS --EVERYONE IS STILL QUESTIONING WHETHER IT'S -- WHETHER IT'S HAPPENING OR NOT.
AND IT DOES BRING A MOMENT OF RELIEF FROM EXHAUSTION, BUT EVERYONE IS DOUBTING BECAUSE OF THE EXCHANGES BEFORE WE HAVE HAD WITH THE DIFFERENT NEGOTIATIONS, THE CEASEFIRE, THE HESITATION.
OF ALL THE PEOPLE GAZANS HAD THEIR SHARE OF TRUST ISSUES AND HAPPY NEWS.
>> NOUR, CAN I ASK WHETHER YOU HAVE --I MEAN, IS IT AS HEAVY FIRING AND HEAVY MILITARY ACTIVITY AS IT HAS BEEN?
DO YOU SENSE A LESSENING AT ALL?
>> WELL, I WAS JUST TALKING TO MY COLLEAGUE HOW IT'S BEEN --20 MINUTES AGO, I HEARD A BOMB COMING DOWN NEAR US.
SO IT'S STILL UNCLEAR.
AND THAT'S WHAT IS CAUSING THIS CONFUSION.
I MEAN, WE HAVE BEEN LOSING SO MANY LIVES.
I MEAN, AN AVERAGE OF ABOUT 70 PEOPLE GETTING KILLED EVERY DAY BY ISRAELI FORCES WITH WHAT WE WERE SEEING IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, WE LOST TWO OF OUR COLLEAGUES.
AND IT'S JUST THESE IMMENSE LOSS WE HAVE BEEN ENDURING SO LONG HAVE AFFECTED OUR REACTION TO THIS CEASEFIRE CURRENTLY THAT ALL OF US HAVE BEEN FEELING NOTHING BUT NUMBNESS.
WHETHER IT'S GOING TO LAST OR NOT.
>> YES.
NOUR, WITH MSF, YOU ARE INVOLVED IN TAKING CARE OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN WOUNDED OR ARE SICK.
AND WE KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE MEDICAL INFRASTRUCTURE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO RUBBLE AND HOW MANY, MANY WOUNDED HAVE COME THROUGH THE DOORS OF ALL THE VARIOUS HOSPITALS AND CARE CENTERS THAT CAN COPE RIGHT NOW.
SO ARE YOU ABLE TO EVEN VAGUELY TELL US WHAT YOU MIGHT NEED ONCE HUMANITARIAN AID STILL --STARTS TO FLOW AGAIN?
>> I CAN -- >> ARE YOU THERE, NOUR?
AS I SAID, IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO REACH PEOPLE IN GAZA.
THERE IS VERY SPOTTY COMMUNICATIONS TODAY OF ALL DAYS.
SO LET'S TURN TO BUSHRA IN RAMADA.
SHE IS LEAD THERE FOR OXFAM.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.
I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION THAT I WAS ASKING NOUR.
I KNOW THAT THERE IS CONNECTION BETWEEN AID ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WEST BANK AND IN GAZA.
CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT MIGHT BE NEEDED IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE BECAUSE ONE OF THE FEATURES, AS YOU KNOW, IS THIS STARVATION, IS A SIEGE, EVERYTHING FROM WATER TO ELECTRICITY, FOOD, MEDICINE HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET IN IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, FOR HAVING ME.
WHAT IS NEEDED RIGHT NOW IS FULL UNRESTRICTED HUMANITARIAN ACCESS.
NO MORE IS REALLY RESTRICTIONS ON THE ENTRY OF AID.
NO MORE SIEGE.
CROSSINGS NEEDS TO BE OPEN.
WE NEED A MASSIVE SCALE UP THAT MEETS THE NEEDS OF 2 MILLION PEOPLE.
WE NEED COMMERCIAL GOODS TO ENTER, RESTAURANTS, CAFES, SHOPS REOPEN.
PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE ENDURED UNIMAGINABLE SUFFERING FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS, RELENTLESS BOMBARDMENT, FORCED DISPLACEMENT, HUNGER.
WE NEED SAFE ROUTES, FUEL FOR THE AID CONVEYS, FUEL FOR HOSPITALS, FUEL FOR WATER SYSTEMS, AND WE NEED LIKE I SAID COMMERCIAL GOODS TO FLOW FREELY AGAIN.
YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WE WERE TALKING YESTERDAY, GAZA NEEDS SOAP.
WE NEED TRUCKS AND TRUCKS OF SOAP IN GAZA BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE RUNNING OUT OF SOAP LET ALONE RUNNING OUT OF BASIC ESSENTIALS.
I HOPE THIS MEANS FULLY OPEN CROSSINGS AND NO MORE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT WE CAN GET INTO GAZA.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU, WERE YOU SURPRISED OR IS IT TOTALLY NATURAL, NOUR IS NOT JUMPING UP AND DOWN AND, YOU KNOW, SINGING AND SHOUTING.
HE SHOULD IS VERY CONCERNED, VERY STRESSED, VERY WORRIED THAT THIS MIGHT NOT LAST.
DO YOU GET THAT?
>> I MEAN, YEAH, OF COURSE.
YOU KNOW, I'M IN THE WEST BANK.
WE ARE ALL HOLDING OUR BREATH.
I SPOKE TO MY BROTHER-IN-LAW.
I HAVE MY IN- LAWS IN GAZA.
HE SAID, YOU KNOW, NOBODY CAN BELIEVE IT.
WE DON'T TRUST IT YET.
WE CAN STILL HEAR THE SOUNDS OF BOMBS AND ISRAELI PLANES AND DRONES ABOVE GAZA.
SO FOR US IT'S YET NOT REAL.
BUT OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IN THE WEST BANK AND AS A HUMANITARIAN WORKER AND HAVING WORKED HERE TWO YEARS, WE WELCOME THE CEASEFIRE, RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES, UNLAWFUL DETAINMENT OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS AS WELL.
THIS HAS TO BE A START OF A REAL EFFORT TO RESTORE FLYNN LIVES, RESTORE THEIR RIGHTS AND END THIS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC ASSAULT ON GAZA.
>> CAN I ASK YOU ALSO, YOU HAVE SAID THAT GAZA IS, QUOTE, A PETRI DISH OF DISEASE.
AND I READING IS IN OUR INTRODUCTION WHICH SAID THAT THE ISRAELIS OR THE AGREEMENT SAYS THAT HUMANITARIAN AID, FOOD, MEDICINE, WATER, BASICS WILL START FLOWING COMMENSURATE WITH PREVIOUS CEASEFIRES.
IS THAT ENOUGH?
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, YES.
GAZA IS A PETRI DISH OF DISEASE.
WHEN YOU HAVE 2 MILLION PEOPLE THAT ARE DISPLACED THAT ARE CRAMMED INTO THESE OVERCROWDED SHELTERS, WITH NO INFRASTRUCTURE, NO CLEAN WATER, NO SANITATION, CHILDREN DEFECATING OPENLY IN GAZA, CHILDREN LOOKING FOR SCRAPS OF FOOD IN THE BINS IN GAZA, THAT WAS NEVER UNHEARD OF IN GAZA BEFORE, NO HOMELESS PEOPLE BEFORE THE 7th OF OCTOBER.
YEAH, SURE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF HUNDREDS OF TRUCKS.
WE NEED TO RESTORE DIGNITY MATERIALS.
PEOPLE NEED TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES OR WHAT IS LEFT OF THEIR HOMES AND START REPAIRING, BASIC WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THROWING BOX OF FLOUR AND, YOU KNOW, WE ARE HAPPY WITH THAT.
NO.
IT NEEDS A FULL HOLISTIC RESPONSE, RESPONSE TO FAMINE.
WE ARE RESPONDING TO A FAMINE.
IT'S NOT A NORMAL HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE.
THOUSANDS OF TRUCKS, WHATEVER IS NEEDED TO RESTORE SOME SORT OF BASIC LIFE IN GAZA.
I MEAN, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE LIVED THIS VERY PERSONALLY FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS AND IT'S TRULY ENOUGH.
SO PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE SOAP AT LEAST.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SOAP, BABY FORMULA, THE BASICS.
>> THANK YOU TO FROM OXFAM BASED IN THE WEST BANK THERE.
I WANT TO GO BACK TO NOUR.
I THINK WE CAN STILL TALK TO HER IN GAZA.
JUST A FINAL THOUGHT FOR YOU FOR THIS MOMENT.
YOU HAVE BEEN WALKING AROUND.
YOU HAVE BEEN IN GAZA FOR ALL THIS TIME.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE REBUILT?
HOW PA BAD IS IT?
BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEE ON A BIG LEVEL.
BUT IT LOOKS PRETTY OBLITERATED TO US.
>> YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY WHAT WE KEEP SAYING IS THAT THIS GENOCIDE, THIS CEASEFIRE COMES AFTER TWO YEARS OF GENOCIDE AND TWO YEARS OF INDISCRIMINATE MASS KILLING AND DESTRUCTION TO EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE, WHETHER IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE, HEALTH FACILITIES, HOMES.
DESTRUCTION OF LITERALLY EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE.
AND FOR THIS TO BE RESTORED, LIKE, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE BASICS.
ACCESS TO HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, WHAT IT MUST NOT BE DEPENDENT ON A PEACE AGREEMENT, UNFORTUNATELY.
IT SHOULD BE LIKE FOLLOWED BY AN URGENT AND MASSIVE SCALEUP OF HUMANITARIAN AID TO ADDRESS THESE OVERWHELMING NEEDS WHETHER IT'S MEDICAL NEEDS, WHETHER IT'S PSYCHOLOGICAL NEEDS, WHETHER IT'S MATERIAL NEEDS.
I MEAN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EVERY SINGLE ASPECT.
AS A MEDICAL ORGANIZATION, PATIENTS ARE LITERALLY ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE THERE IS NO BEDS.
THE DOCTORS AND THE NURSES ARE CHANGING THE DRESSING FOR PATIENTS WHO HRC LITERALLY LAYING ON THE FLOOR.
WE ARE WORKING IN FIELD HOSPITALS THAT REACHED MORE THAN 150 BED CAPACITY OR BED OCCUPANCY RATE, WHICH IS MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE PER BED IN A HOSPITAL.
IT'S CATASTROPHIC TO SAY THE LEAST.
NOT ENOUGH OF ANYTHING.
NOT ENOUGH OF MEDICAL SUPPLIES.
NOT ENOUGH OF MEDICATION.
NOT ENOUGH HUMAN RESOURCES.
>> WELL, WE HOPE --THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
NOUR ALSAQQA, THANK YOU FOR TELLING US WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.
AGAIN WE REALLY, REALLY HOPE THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW DAY.
SO THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
NOW WHETHER THIS GAZA CEASEFIRE PLAN MAKES IT FROM PHASE ONE TO FINAL AGREEMENT IS ALL ABOUT THE DETAILS.
AND MY NEXT GUEST KNOW HOW MUCH WORK IT TAKES TO SEE THIS THROUGH TO THE FINAL PHASE.
OLIVER McTERNAN IS A FORMER CATHOLIC PRIEST TURNED HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR.
HE SPENT DECADES WORKING ON CONFLICT RESOLUTION IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
HUSSEIN AGHA ALSO HAS A LONG HISTORY OF INVOLVEMENT IN ISRAELI/PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATIONS AND HIS LATEST BOOK IS TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY.
LIFE, DEATH, AND THE PURSUIT OF PEACE IN ISRAEL/PALESTINE.
AND YOSSI BEILIN SERVED AS ISRAEL'S JUSTICE MINISTER, ALSO INVOLVED IN NEGOTIATING THE OSLO ACCORDS.
SO WELCOME EVERYBODY.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
IF I COULD GO TO YOSSI, BECAUSE YOU ARE IN ISRAEL AND THE GOVERNMENT IS HAVING ITS MEETING AS WE SPEAK TO SIGN OFF ON THIS, WHAT DO YOU FEEL NOW?
IS THIS A LEGITIMATE GENUINE, YOU KNOW, U. S. BROKERED CHANCE FOR A PERMANENT CHANGE IN THE SITUATION?
OBVIOUSLY, TO BRING BACK THE HOSTAGES AND SURGE IN HUMANITARIAN AID.
>> WELL, IT IS A GREAT DAY FOR ALL OF US.
WE ALMOST DIDN'T BELIEVE THIS DAY WOULD COME.
YES, WE WERE AWAKENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND WE CRIED.
DOES IT BRING US TO PERMANENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN US AND THE PALESTINIANS?
I DON'T THINK SO.
THE WAY IS LONG BECAUSE WE WERE NEGOTIATING THROUGH IMMEDIATE KBRATERS WITH HAMAS.
BUT UNLIKE THE NEGOTIATIONS IN OSLO AND MANY OTHER KIND OF NEGOTIATIONS, WE DID NOT HAVE THE SAME AIM.
WE DON'T WANT TO SEE HAMAS IN GAZA, HAMAS LEADERSHIP IN GAZA.
THEY SHOULD NOT RULE IT.
WHILE THEY INTEND TO REMAIN THERE, NOT EVEN READY TO PUT --TO PUT THEIR WEAPONS ASIDE.
SO I THINK THAT THE MAIN ISSUE IS ABOUT THE MORNING AFTER, WHICH HAS NOT COME YET, AND THIS MORNING WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE NEGOTIATIONS ON LONGER RANGE, WHICH MEANS BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL AND THE LEGITIMATE DAUGHTER OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
THAT WILL NOT BE SIMPLE.
IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE WITH THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL.
SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.
>> OKAY.
SO LET ME TURN TO, YOU KNOW, CONFLICT RESOLUTION EXPERT OLIVER McTERNAN HERE.
SO IF IT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITH THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL, NOT POSSIBLE WITH HAMAS IN ITS CURRENT INCARNATION, WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS GOING?
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, TODAY IS WONDERFUL FOR THE IMMEDIATE NEEDS AND CEASEFIRE, STOP THE KILLING, RETURN THE HOSTAGES, YOU KNOW, IT'S MEANT TO HAPPEN IN 72 HOURS.
BUT BEYOND THAT YOU'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME BETWEEN TWO SIDES.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE ALL DELIGHTED WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
THE TROUBLE IS HOW WE GOT THERE.
AND WE GOT THERE THROUGH, I WOULD SAY, A UNILATERAL ULTIMATUM.
NOW, HOPEFULLY, IT WILL DELIVER THE HOSTAGES FOR THEIR SAKE AND THE FAMILIES AT HOME AND, HOPEFULLY, WILL RELIEVE THE IMMENSE SUFFERING OF THE PEOPLE OF GAZA, 2.
3 MILLION MAYBE STILL.
NOW, THAT SAID, WIE AGREE WITH YOSSI, WHERE TO WE GO FROM THERE?
I THINK THE MERE FACT THAT IT WAS A UNILATERAL ULTIMATUM THAT BROUGHT THEM TO THE TABLE, THERE IS NO WAY IT CAN BE THE PATHWAY FORWARD.
SO I THINK WE SHOULDN'T BE OVER ENTHUSIASTIC AT THIS MOMENT.
>> YOU ARE SAYING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP KNOCK HEADS TOGETHER AND --IS THAT THE UNILATERAL ULTIMATUM?
>> SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE, I SAID THERE WAS ONE PERSON, DONALD TRUMP, WHO COULD ACTUALLY -- >> AND HE HAS DONE IT.
>> BUT THE QUESTION IS WHETHER HE HAS THE POLITICAL AND MORAL COURAGE TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THAT'S THE QUESTION.
THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION WHETHER THERE WILL BE FOLLOW- THROUGH.
THAT'S ALWAYS THE ISSUE, ISN'T IT.
IT'S ALWAYS THE ISSUE.
TO THE ISSUE OF HAMAS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE DEALT WITH THEM A LOT, THE POLITICAL SIDE, DR.
YOUSEF, WHO I MET WITH YOU, FORMER ADVISOR TO THE ASSASSINATED LEADER, HAS WRITTEN FACTIONS MUST EVOLVE, PALESTINIAN FACTIONS MUST REVOLVE INTO POLITICAL PARTIES THAT COMPETE UNDER PLURALISTIC NORMS TRAER THAN CLING TO RESISTANT MOVEMENT LOGIC.
ONLY THEN CAN PALESTINIAN POLITICS ALIGN WITH PRINCIPLES OF REPRESENTATION, ACCOUNTABILITY AND COLLECTIVE PURPOSE.
THAT'S QUITE FAR LEANING, RIGHT?
HE IS BASICALLY SAYING WE SHOULDN'T CONTINUE IN THIS RESISTANCE MODE AND -- >> I THINK THERE WERE MANY IN HAMAS WHO REALIZED THAT LONG BEFORE OCTOBER 7th.
IN FACT, IN AUGUST 2023, WE HAD A MEETING IN KHAN YUNIS WITH THE PARTIES THAT WERE HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD.
AND WHAT PEOPLE WERE RECOGNIZING, THE TIME HAD COME THAT HAMAS SHOULD TAKE A STEP BACK.
THEY WERE HOPING TO HAVE MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS IN GAZA IN NOVEMBER, AND THEY WOULD GO ON THE JOINT MANIFESTO.
SO IT DIDN'T MATTER WHO WON THE ELECTION.
THEY WOULD WORK TOGETHER TO IMPLEMENT THIS MANIFESTO, AND IT WAS, I THOUGHT, A MOMENT OF GREAT HOPE.
AND I THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE.
IT IS POSSIBLE TO REVIVE THAT.
AND I THINK IT IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD.
>> AND HUSSEIN AGHA, WHO HAS WORKED, YOU KNOW, A LOT ON THIS ISSUE, AND YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN A BOOK WITH ROBERT MALI, THE FORMER U. S. NEGOTIATOR, WE QUOTED THE NAME OF THE BOOK, WHAT DO YOU YOU THINK AND SEE AS THE LIT AND POTENTIAL STUMBLING BLOCKS RIGHT NOW?
>> I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT DAY.
I THINK IT IS A BREAKTHROUGH.
BUT IT IS A CEASEFIRE.
IT'S NOT A ROADMAP TO A PEACE, PERMANENT PEACE BETWEEN THE TWO PEOPLE -- BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS.
BUT STILL THERE IS A LOT IN IT FOR THE PALESTINIANS THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE.
ONE IS THE END TO THE SLAUGHTER.
THE SECOND IS THE DEATH OF THE -- DEPORTING THE PALESTINIANS FROM GAZA.
RESUMING HUMANITARIAN AID.
GIVING UP THE IDEA OF ANNEXING THE WEST BANK.
GIVING UP THE IDEA OF, THE CRAZY IDEA OF TOTAL VICTORY.
ALL THESE I THINK ARE MEASURABLE AND ARE IMPORTANT RETURNS FROM TRUMP'S TTEMPT AND THIS PLAN.
BR DO YOU GO FROM HERE?
EVERY TIME THERE IS A BREAKDOWN BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA, EVERY TIME THERE IS VIOLENCE, THE WORLD COMES AROUND, YOU HAVE MEETINGS, YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT OF FRANCE, THE PRIME MINISTER AND AMERICAN REPRESENTATIVES AND THEY ALL PROMISE ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
NOT SIMILAR TO WHAT IS BEING PROMISED NOW, AND IT NEVER HAPPENED.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE NOW.
THE DIFFERENCE NOW IS THAT THIS IS NOT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN HAMAS AND ISRAEL.
THIS IS NOT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HAMAS AND ISRAEL.
EFFECTIVELY, IT IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE COUNTRIES OF TURKEY AND QATAR.
TURKEY AND QATAR ARE REPRESENTING HAMAS.
HAMAS WILL ACCEPT ANYTHING THAT TURKEY AND QATAR WILL ASK -- WILL ACCEPT.
AND, THEREFORE, HAMAS NO LONGER SEEKS A BILATERAL GUARANTEE FROM THE UNITED STATES THAT THE WAR WILL NOT BE RESUMED.
IT IS DEPENDING ON THE RELATION BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT ERDOGAN AND THE EMIR OF QATAR THAT WAR WILL NOT RESUME AND HAMAS, WHAT'S AGREED WITH HAMAS WILL BE HONORED.
IN THAT SENSE, IT'S NEW.
IT'S NEW AND IT IS MORE POWERFUL THAN WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE.
BECAUSE WE NEVER HAD THINGS --GO.
>> GO AHEAD.
YOU NEVER HAD THINGS LIKE THAT GUARANTEED.
>> YOU NEVER HAD THE IMPORTANT COUNTRIES THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS AN INVESTMENT IN AND HAS A SPECIAL KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH TAKING SUCH AN ACTIVE ROLE.
>> SO LET ME JUST ASK YOSSI THIS.
AS A FORMER ISRAELI NEGOTIATOR, DO YOU THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A DECLARATION OF THE END OF WAR?
AND DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE BECAUSE OF THE BIG POWERS OR THE POWERS, THE REGIONAL POWERS WHO HAVE COME IN UNDER, YOU KNOW, TRUMP GETTING THEM ALL TOGETHER WHETHER IT'S ISRAEL, WHETHER IT'S ARAB, WHETHER IT'S TURKEY.
>> YEAH, FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE.
THIS IS THE NEW SITUATION.
THINGS HAPPENED AND THINGS WILL CHANGE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
BUT THE BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT VARIABLE IS THE PRESENCE OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
AND THE WAY HE DEALT WITH THINGS.
I DON'T ALWAYS LIKE HIS BEHAVIOR, I MUST ADMIT, BETWEEN US, BUT WHAT HE DID HERE WAS A TOUGH STEP, WHICH WORK IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE PHASE ONE OF THE PLAN.
I THINK THAT IN ORDER TO GET TO THE OTHER CHAPTERS, AND ESPECIALLY TO DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE GROUND.
I MEAN, WHO WILL REALLY REPLACE A HAMAS IF IT WAS --IT WILL BE REPLACED, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT READY TO BE REPLACED SO SOON.
SO THIS IS A HUGE WORK.
AND I AM GLAD THAT TRUMP IS COMING TO THE REGION AND I HOPE THAT IT IS NOT ONLY A VISIT, BUT IT IS A WORKING VISIT IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THE SECOND STEP.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING RIGHT NOW.
>> 100%.
>> REALLY SORRY, BY THE WAY, WHEN WE WERE SPECKING ABOUT THE STEPS WHICH WERE TAKEN TODAY AND THE RELEASE OF PRISONERS THAT ISRAEL REFUSED TO FREE ONE.
I THINK THAT IT WASN'T ONE OF THE BIG MISTAKES OF ISRAEL FOR THE --YEAH, HE IS A --HE WAS A TERRORIST.
I MEAN, I KNEW HIM VERY WELL.
HE SUPPORTED PEACE AND AT CERTAIN MOMENT IN 2000, MAY 2000, HE CHANGE HIS MIND BECAUSE OF HIS COMPETITION WITH HAMAS.
I WILL NOT PERSONALLY FORGIVE HIM FOR THAT.
BUT HE IS THE MOST POPULAR PALESTINIAN RIGHT NOW.
AND HE IS THE HOPE OF THOSE WHO WANT TO HAVE AN AGREEMENT AT THE END OF THE DAY.
ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PALESTINIANS WOULD KEEP HIM IN A PRISON RIGHT NOW.
>> THAT IS REALLY INTERESTING.
ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PALESTINIANS, WHO DON'T WANT A PALESTINIAN STATE, WOULD KEEP HIM IN PRISON, SAYS FORMER NEGOTIATOR YOSSI BEILIN.
THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.
BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A STUMBLING BLOCK FOR A LONG TIME.
THE DISARMAMENT PROCESS, YOU HAVE WORKED WITH ALL SORTS OF CONFLICT RESOLUTION, INCLUDING IN NORTHERN IRELAND, AND TAKEN MEMBERS THFR CONFLICT AROUND AS WELL.
AFTER THE GOOD FRIDAY PEACE ACCORD, IT TOOK YEARS TO DISARM, ACTUALLY DISARM THE IRA, RIGHT?
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN A WEEK OR A DAY OR A MONTH?
>> WELL, THERE ARE STILL GROUPS IN NORTHERN IRELAND THAT ARE NOT DISARMED.
BUT POLITICAL LIFE GOES ON.
I THINK YOSSI RAISED THE CRUCIAL QUESTION.
WHO WILL REPLACE HAMAS?
NOW, WHAT WORRIES ME ABOUT THIS CURRENT PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE IS THAT IT REFLECTS TOO MUCH THE 2003 PLAN AFTER THE FALL OF SADDAM.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS YOU SEE IT THERE OUTSIDE GOVERNMENT COMING IN.
IT WAS THE GOVERNMENT RULING IRAQ.
NOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT WE KNOW ONLY TOO WELL.
IT GAVE RISE TO ISIS.
AND I FEAR WE SHOULDN'T UNDERESTIMATE THAT IN GAZA.
SECOND POINT ABOUT THAT PLAN, IT REFLECTS NOTHING OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND IN PARTICULAR THE HUMAN RIGHT, THE BASIC HUMAN RIGHT TO PALESTINIANS TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE, TO HAVE REAL AGENCY, NOT A STATE ON PAPER, AND TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN FUTURE.
NOW, I THINK WHEN I SAID DOES PRESIDENT TRUMP HAVE THE POLITICAL AND MORAL COURAGE TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, IT'S SIMPLY END OF OCCUPATION.
ISRAEL WILL ONLY HAVE THE SECURITY IT DESIRES AND HAS A RIGHT TO WHEN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY ENOUGH OCCUPATION HAS TO END, WE HAVE TO HAVE A REAL PALESTINIAN STATE.
>> OLIVER McTERNAN, YOSSI BEILIN, HUSSEIN AGHA, I WISH WE COULD CARRY ON.
FASCINATING WITH ALL YOUR EXPERTISE AND PERSPECTIVE.
ANOTHER DAY.
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN SPEAKING ABOUT THE DEAL AT A CABINET MEETING.
HERE IS WHAT HE JUST SAID.
>> I HAVE AGREED TO THINGS AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO MOVE ALONG PRETTY WELL.
>> WHAT IS PHASE TWO?
>> I AM NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
YOU SORT OF KNOW WHAT PHASE TWO IS.
THERE WILL BE DISARMING, THERE WILL BE PULL BACKS, A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING.
I GAVE YOU A WHOLE LIST OF 22 DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN, WILL TAKE PLACE.
AND I THINK IT WILL TAKE PLACE AND I THINK YOU WILL END UP WITH PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
>> FOR SO MANY ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS TODAY IS A DAY OF JOY AND HOPE.
HERE IS SOME MORE OF THE REACTIONS WE HEARD SO FAR IN GAZA.
>> Translator: THANK GOD THE WAR ENDED AND THE TRUCE HAS COME INTO EFFECT.
IT'S AN INDESCRIBABLE FEELING OF JOY AND HAPPINESS BEYOND WORDS.
WE HOPE GAZA RETURNS TO BETTER DAYS.
WE THANK THE EGYPTIAN AND QATARI PRESIDENTS FOR STANDING WITH US DURING THE WAR ON GAZA.
>> Translator: ON?
GLORIOUS DAY, BY THE GRACE OF GOD THE WAR HAS STOPPED.
PRAISE BE TO GOD.
EVERYONE IS HAPPY AND I AM HAPPY MYSELF.
AT THE SAME TIME I HOPE THE WAR NEVER RETURNS.
TWO YEARS OF MASSACRES, BOMBARDMENT AND DEATH FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA AND GLOBAL FAILURE NOT ONLY ARAB.
THANKS BE TO GOD.
HE ANSWERED OUR PRAYERS AND BY HIS GRACE THE WAR STOPPED.
>> MANY HOSTAGE FAMILIES ARE ALSO BREATHING A MASSIVE SIGH OF RELIEF IN ANTICIPATION OF THEIR LOVED ONES BEING RETURNED.
HERE IS THE BROTHER-IN-LAW OF HOSTAGE ONRY SPEAKING ABOUT THE MOMENT HE HEARD THE NEWS.
>> IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS NOW.
WE ARE HOPING THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE THE LAST STEP, THE LAST FEW DAYS BEFORE WE FINALLY REUNITE WITH OMRI.
I WAS WITH MY SISTER IN D. C. , SHE IS WITH ME HERE AT THE AIRPORT.
IN THE PAST FEW DAYS WE ADVOCATED WITH POLICY MAKE ERGS, HELD A VIGIL WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MEMBERS, SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO, IT WAS SO POWERFUL.
ESPECIALLY GETTING THE NEWS YESTERDAY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE SPEAKING TO PRESIDENT, SEEING HOW MUCH HE IS EXCITED TO SHARE THE NEWS WITH US AND SHARING OUR MESSAGE AS WELL TO THE WORLD AND TO BE HONEST, UNTIL WE SEE OMRI, WE WILL NOT BELIEVE IT.
ONLY ONCE WE RECEIVE A CONFIRMATION THAT THIS IS HAPPENING THAT OMRI IS RETURNING HOME, WE WILL SHARE IT WITH THE GIRLS AS WE PREPARE THEM TO MEET HIM.
IT'S GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT MEETING FOR THEM I'M SURE, BUT ALSO A HAPPY ONE.
SHE WAS SIX MONTHS OLD WHEN OMRI WAS KIDNAPPED IN FRONT OF HER EYES.
WILL PROBABLY NOT REMEMBER WHO OMRI WAS.
BUT I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THEM RUE UNITING AND FOR ME TO GETTING TO KNOW HIS DAUGHTER FINALLY AND FOR HER GETTING TO KNOW HIM.
AND SHE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING.
SHE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED TO OMRI, SHE KNOWS WHERE HE IS, SHE KNOWS BAD PEOPLE, AS SHE CALLS THEM, TOOK HIM WITH GUNS.
AND ONLY THIS WEEK WHEN SHE BUILT A -- WITH MY PARENTS, SHE PUT A WISH IN A BALLOON AND I JUST HOPE THAT WISH WILL COME TRUE.
BECAUSE SHE SAID THAT ONCE THE BALLOON EXPLODES, POPS, OMRI WILL RETURN, ALL THE HOSTAGES WILL RETURN AND OUR SOLDIERS WILL RETURN IN PEACE FROM THE OPERATION IN GAZA.
CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT HAPPENING.
>> FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON HAS PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE IN MIDDLE EAST DIPLOMACY, HIS WORK WITH SAUDI ARABIA TO RALLY GLOBAL SUPPORT FOR A TWO-STATE SOLUTION HELPED SHAPE ASPECTS OF DONALD TRUMP'S 20 POINT PEACE PLAN.
SYLVIE BERMANN WAS FRANCHISES'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UK, TO RUSSIA AND CHINA AND SHE IS JOINING US FROM PARIS.
AMBASSADOR, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
AND THERE ARE ANNOUNCEMENTS OF MEETINGS IN PARIS TO TRY TO FILL IN THE DETAILS AND HELP CONSTRUCT THE SO-CALLED DAY AFTER, THE TWO STATE ISSUE.
WHERE DO YOU STAND ON THIS, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK EUROPE CAN DO PARTICULARLY FRANCE?
>> WELL, I THINK EUROPE CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS AND COULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE STABILIZATION PROCESS WITH SOME PEACE FORCES.
WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO BE A U. N. PEACE FORCES OR OTHERS.
OBVIOUSLY, EUROPE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO ALSO TO THE RECONSTRUCTION OF GAZA AND IT'S BETTER TO WORK TOGETHER.
I KNOW THAT DONALD TRUMP IS PLANNING TO ESTABLISH A KIND OF PEACE WORLD SO EUROPEANS WOULD LIKE TO BE A PART OF IT.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID, A U. N. PEACEKEEPING FORCE.
ONE ASSUMES THAT ISRAEL WOULD NOT ACCEPT THAT.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE THE U. N. IS AN HONEST BROKER WHEN IT COMES TO THEM.
AND THERE HAS BEEN TALK ABOUT MAYBE A JOINT ARAB PEACEKEEPING FORCE INTERALIA.
WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE THE BEST?
>> WELL, IT COULD BE AN ARAB PEACEKEEPING FORCE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
BUT THERE IS ALSO THE PARTICIPATION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF PARTICIPATION OF OTHER COUNTRIES.
IF NOT U. N. MISSION, IT COULD BE A DINED OF COALITION OF THE WILLING.
I THINK A LOT OF THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.
>> AND GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE, OBVIOUSLY, AS A FRENCH AMBASSADOR, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MACRON'S, YOU KNOW, SERIOUS AND DILIGENT WORK TO GETTING THIS CONFERENCE ALONG WITH SAUDI ARABIA, THE WHOLE IDEA OF SORT OF SUPERCHARGING PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD AND THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AT THE SAME U. N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY MEETING WITH ALL THE ARAB LEADERS AND HEARING FROM THEM AS WELL, HOW MUCH A ROLE DO YOU THINK MACRON'S PLAN PLAYED IN THIS MOMENT NOW?
>> WELL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY BECAUSE I THINK DONALD TRUMP HAD ALREADY A PLAN, BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A FUTURE FOR PALESTINE AND FOR THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL AS WELL YOU NEED A TWO- STATE SOLUTION.
MAYBE, WHILE IT IS FOR THE TIME BEING BY THE ISRAELIS, BUT IN THE FUTURE IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY AND THE FRENCH PRESIDENT HAS WORKED A LOT WITH ALL ARAB COUNTRIES WHILE OF COURSE DONALD TRUMP AS WELL.
BUT IT COULD BE A COMPLEMENTARY.
>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE INTERNAL CHAOS IN YOUR COUNTRY.
OBVIOUSLY, IT IMPLICATES MACRON, HIS LEADERSHIP AT LEAST AT HOME.
WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TOE LEAD, AND DO YOU THINK, IF HE GETS INTO MORE DOMESTIC POLITICAL TROUBLE, IT WILL COMPROMISE HIS ROLE ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE WHETHER IT'S OVER THIS, WHETHER IT'S OVER SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND THOSE BIG ISSUES?
>> WELL, I THINK, OBVIOUSLY, THE IMAGE OF FRANCE WEAKENS.
BUT HE HAS STILL RESPONSIBILITIES AS THE INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS CONCERN, SO HE CAN STILL PLAY A ROLE.
BUT A NEW PRIME MINISTER, TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION BY THE END OF THE YEAR BECAUSE IT'S NECESSARY TO ADOPT THE BUDGETS.
>> AND DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE?
DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A COMPROMISE BECAUSE THE LATEST PRIME MINISTER RESIGNED AFTER LESS THAN A MONTH BECAUSE HE COULDN'T GET ANYBODY TO AGREE.
>> YEAH.
NOT ALL THE PARTIES ARE IN A COMPROMISE MOOD BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST LOOKING AT THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 2027.
AND THAT'S --THEY ARE NOT REALLY INTERESTED BY THE SITUATION OF THE COUNTRY.
BUT THE OUTGOING PRIME MINISTER HAD CONTACTS WITH ALL OF THEM, THOSE LAST TWO DAYS, AND APPARENTLY SAID THAT THERE IS AN AGREEMENT WHILE TO AVOID DISSOLUTION AND ALSO TO FIND AN AGREEMENT ON THE BUDGET.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A COALITION GOVERNMENT, BUT HE THINKS THERE IS A WAY TOWARDS COMPROMISE UNDER BUDGETARY ISSUE.
>> OKAY.
AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE FAR RIGHT PARTY OF MARINE LE PEN BECAUSE THEY ARE AHEAD IN THE POLLS AND CLEARLY MACRON DOESN'T WANT TO ALLOW, YOU KNOW, THEM TO TAKE OVER?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IN FACT, THIS PARTY, THE NATIONAL -- THEY WON'T DISSOLUTION BECAUSE OF COURSE WHILE THE POLLS ARE IN THEIR FAVOR.
BUT IT'S NOT WHAT OTHER PARTIES WANT.
>> INTERESTING.
AND ONE VERY BRIEFLY.
WE HAVE 30 SECONDS.
YOU KNOW RUSSIA.
HOW DO YOU THINK PUTIN WILL LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE EAST RIGHT NOW?
WILL IT ENCOURAGE HIM TO NEGOTIATE AN END TO HIS WAR?
>> PROBABLY NOT NOW.
I THINK IT'S NOT READY TO PUT AN END TO THIS WAR BECAUSE HE THINKS THAT HE CAN STILL WIN.
BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT DONALD TRUMP AFTER THE SUCCESS IN GAZA, THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS TO DO, IT WILL COME BACK TO THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE AND HE WILL CONTINUE.
IT MIGHT BE ERRATIC.
CONSISTENCY OF IDEAS.
>> REALLY INTERESTING.
THANK YOU, ALABAMA BERMAN FOR JOINING US.
FINALLY, A POEM ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF PALESTINIANS IN GAZA AND THE DEEP LOSS AMONG ISRAELI HOSTAGE FAMILIES.
THE AUTHOR 95-YEAR-OLD THEODORE MORON HAS LIVED A REMARKABLE LIFE AFTER SURVIVING THE HOLOCAUST AS A CHILD.
HE WEPT ON TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF THE WAR CRIMES TRIBE YUNEL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA.
HIS MEMOIR SET TO RELEASE IN JANUARY 2026.
YOU SAW I POINTED OUT WHAT SHARON LIFSCHITZ GAVE ME, THE YELLOW CACTUS FOR THE HOSTAGES IN ISRAEL.
HE SENT ME IN POEM HOURS BEFORE THE CEASEFIRE DEAL WAS ANNOUNCED AND HE CALLS IT A REQUIEM FOR GAZA'S CHILDREN.
HERE IS AN EXTRACT.
>> THE BARBARITY OF OCTOBER SEVEN GOD SAW IT FROM HEAVEN.
BUT HE DID NOT STOP THE HORRORS, LEAVING THEM TO CRUEL WARRIORS.
GAZA BOMBED OUT, COLLAPSED, BURNING HOUSES.
BLACK ROBED MOTHERS CRYING TO HEAVENS FOR THE LOSS OF THEIR PROGGY.
LEFT UNANSWERED BY ALMIGHTY GOD, HOW COULD HE LET IT HAPPEN ON HIS WATCH?
EMACIATED HOSTAGES CLINGING TO LIFE IN DARK TUNNELS DESPERATE STRIVE, PRAYING FOR LIGHT AND FAMILIES EMBRACE AND SAFE RETURN TO THE GRACE.
FEAR, DESPAIR AND PAIN WERE OUR PRAYERS IN VEIN?
DARK CLOUDS SENDING A DARK OMEN FOR SUFFERING AND TRAUMA SO COMMON.
AS A YOUNG MAN, HE WAS LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY AFTER THE SIX DAY WAR IN 1967 AND HE WARNED THE GOVERNMENT THE DAY THAT ISRAEL'S OCCUPATION OF THE WEST BANK WOULD NOT BE VIEWED AS LEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW.
HE WAS IGNORED AND THE REST IS HISTORY.
THAT'S IT FOR NOW.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.
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