November 11, 2025

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

AS RUSSIA ADVANCES ON UKRAINE'S POKROVSK, G7 LEADERS MEET IN CANADA, WITH THIS WAR HIGH ON THEIR AGENDA.

SO WHAT'S AT STAKE, AND HOW LONG CAN UKRAINE HOLD OUT?

I GET THE MILITARY ANALYSIS AND MSF SECRETARY-GENERAL CHRISTOPHER LOCKYER JOINS US FROM UKRAINE.

>>> THEN "THE PRESIDENT'S CAKE," THE AWARD WINNING FILM EXPLORING THE REALITIES OF SADDAM HUSSEIN'S RULE IN 1990s IRAQ.

I SPEAK WITH WRITER AND DIRECTOR HASAN HADI.

>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> JUST THINK OF HOW MANY YEARS OF THERAPY THAT CAN TAKE TO CHANGE AN INDIVIDUAL WHERE THAT HAPPENS LITERALLY OVERNIGHT.

>> ON VETERANS DAY, HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS WITH FORMER NAVY S.E.A.L.

MARCUS CAPONE AND BONNI COHEN, DIRECTOR OF "IN WAVES AND WAR," A FILM ABOUT CONTROVERSIAL PSYCHEDELIC THERAPY THAT SEEKS TO HEAL BRAIN INJURIES.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO."

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> AND VERY WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M PAULA NEWTON IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

TODAY IN AMERICA, WE MARK VETERANS DAY, A CHANCE TO COMMEMORATE THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE U.S.

MILITARY.

IT COINCIDE WAS OTHER GLOBAL HOLIDAYS MARKING THE END OF WORLD WAR I. BUT AS WE CELEBRATE THESE TRIUMPHS OVER TYRANNY, THE SHADOW OF WAR STILL LOOMS OVER EUROPE TODAY.

FOR MORE THAN THREE YEARS NOW, RUSSIA HAS TERRORIZED UKRAINE, TAKING ITS LAND, BOMBARDING CITIES, AND EVEN STEALING THE COUNTRY'S CHILDREN.

NOW FRONTLINE FIGHTING IS FOCUSED ON POKROVSK, A KEY GATEWAY INTO THE EASTERN DONETSK REGION.

UKRAINE'S TOP COMMANDER CLAIMS RUSSIA HAS SENT ABOUT 150,000 TROOPS TO CAPTURE THAT CITY AS THEIR FORCES DWINDLE.

AND YET KYIV CONTINUES TO FIGHT BACK, JUST LAST NIGHT STRIKING AN OIL REFINERY AND SEVERAL TARGETS IN RUSSIAN OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

NOW MEANTIME, G7 FOREIGN MINISTERS ARE GATHERING IN CANADA WITH UKRAINE AND HOW TO STOP THE FIGHTING HIGH ON THE AGENDA.

SO THE QUESTION, HOW LONG CAN UKRAINE HOLD OUT, AND WHAT IF IT FALLS.

WE SPEAK WITH MILITARY ANALYST CEDRIC LEIGHTON WHO JOINS US NOW.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN AS WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE SAGA OF POKROVSK.

YOU KNOW, RUSSIA CLAIMS THAT THE FALL OF POKROVSK IS IMMINENT.

UKRAINE DENIES THAT.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND?

BUT WHAT I REALLY WANT TO LEARN FROM YOU IS WHY IS IT SO STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT?

>> YEAH, PAULA, IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU AGAIN.

THE MAIN REASON THAT POKROVSK IS SO IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF AT THIS JUNCTION OF A SERIES OF ROADS.

THERE IS A HIGHWAY THAT GOES THROUGH THERE THAT BASICALLY LINKS THE EASTERN PART OF UKRAINE, THE DONBAS REGION WITH THE CENTRAL PART OF UKRAINE.

AND THAT VERY FACT MAKES IT STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT.

THE OTHER ANGLE TO THIS, THE OTHER ANGLE TO POKROVSK IS THAT IT IS ALSO KIND OF AN ANCHOR FOR THE UKRAINIANS.

BASICALLY, THEY HAVE A STRING OF FORTIFICATIONS IN THE PART OF THE DONBAS REGION THAT THEY STILL CONTROL.

AND IF POKROVSK WERE TO FALL, IT WOULD PUT THOSE FORTIFICATIONS AT RISK AS WELL.

SO THERE IS A LOGISTICAL REASON AND A MILITARY OPERATIONAL REASON FOR POKROVSK TO STILL BE, YOU KNOW, A KEY AREA THAT THE UKRAINIANS WANT TO HOLD ON TO.

EVEN IF POKROVSK WERE TO FALL, AND IT OF COURSE HAS BEEN DECIMATED BY THE WAR OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, BY THE SPECIFIC BATTLE THERE, IT WOULD STILL BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW THE UKRAINIANS TO CONTINUE THE FIGHT.

BUT THEY WOULD BE IN A BIT OF A WEAKENED POSITION IF POKROVSK WERE TO FALL TO THE RUSSIANS.

>> AND THE MAIN ISSUE HERE FOR UKRAINE DOES SEEM TO BE MANPOWER.

I MEAN, AS MUCH AS UKRAINE SAYS THAT IT HAS IN FACT -- THAT 150,000 TROOPS RIGHT NOW ARE AMASSING IN TERMS OF RUSSIAN TROOPS, AND YET UKRAINE IS LOSING MANPOWER AS WELL AND IS HAVING A HARD TIME STANDING UP MANPOWER.

HOW CRUCIAL IS THAT AT THIS POINT IN THIS WAR?

.

>> WELL, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A CRUCIAL FACTOR, PAULA, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IS THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO INNOVATE.

THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO USE TECHNOLOGIES SUCH AS DRONE WARFARE, COUPLED WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO CREATE A TYPE OF SITUATION THAT IN ESSENCE IS A BIT OF A STALEMATE.

NOW THERE ARE CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF THIS WAR THAT HARKEN BACK TO WORLD WAR I WHERE BASICALLY YOU A STALEMATED TRENCH WARFARE SITUATION, PARTICULARLY IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE COUNTRY.

BUT THEN THERE ARE OTHER PARTS OF THE WAR SUCH AS THE DRONE PART THAT ARE FAIRLY INNOVATIVE.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE DOING IS THEY'RE USING ELECTRONIC WARFARE IN ORDER TO NOT ONLY KEEP PACE WITH THE RUSSIANS, BUT IN SOME WAYS TO OUTPACE THEM.

THE RUSSIANS HAVE RESPONDED.

THEY HAVE DRONE CAPABILITIES AS WELL, WHICH ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT.

THEY ALSO HAVE ELECTRONIC WARFARE CAPABILITIES, WHICH THEY BASICALLY INHERITED FROM THE SOVIET UNION, BUT THEY'VE IMPROVED OVER THE YEARS.

SO THERE ARE CERTAIN ELEMENTS HERE WHERE EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE CERTAIN INNOVATIONS ON THE UKRAINIAN SIDE, SOMETIMES THOSE INNOVATIONS ARE MET BY THE RUSSIANS.

AND THE RESULT OF THAT IS THAT THERE IS BASICALLY A STALEMATE IN EACH OF THESE AREAS.

SO THE UKRAINIANS HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO HOLD ON TO CERTAIN TERRITORIES A LOT LONGER THAN, YOU KNOW, WE THOUGHT WOULD BE POSSIBLE.

MOST ANALYSTS THOUGHT WOULD BE POSSIBLE.

BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT IS THAT MANPOWER PART THAT YOU SPOKE OF.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PLAGUING THE UKRAINIANS REALLY SINCE THE START OF THIS PHASE OF THE CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM AND THE RUSSIANS.

IN IS ESSENCE YOU'RE TALK A FOUO ONE ADVANTAGE THE RUSSIANS HAVE IN TERMS OF POPULATION AND THE SIZE OF THEIR MILITARIES.

BUT THERE ARE LOCAL POCKETS SUCH AS THE AREA AROUND POKROVSK WHERE THE RUSSIANS HAVE MASSED TROOPS, AND THAT MAKES IT REALLY HARD FOR THE UKRAINIANS WHO ARE ALREADY MANPOWER-CHALLENGED TO MEET THAT PARTICULAR EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE RUSSIANS.

SO THE RUSSIANS NOT ONLY ARE THEY MASSING THEIR TROOPS, BUT THE OTHER FACTOR THAT THEY HAVE TO CONTEND WITH IS OF COURSE THEY'RE LOSING A LOT OF THEM AS WELL.

SO RUSSIAN LOSSES ARE MUCH HEAVIER THAN THE UKRAINIAN LOSSES, BUT USE OF MASS THAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE INSTITUTED IS REALLY A KEY ELEMENT IN THEIR TYPE OF WARFARE.

>> YEAH, AND IN SOME CASES JUST A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR OWN SOLDIERS.

I MEAN, I'M SURE IT IS STUNNING AND STRIKING FOR SO MANY VIEWERS TO HERE ON THIS DAY WHERE WE COMMEMORATE WORLD WAR I AND THE VICTORIES THERE THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WARFARE THAT LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE WORLD WAR I. I DO WANT TO ASK YOU, THOUGH, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS IMBALANCE IN TERMS OF TROOPS, HOW LONG CAN UKRAINE SUSTAIN THIS?

BECAUSE YOU AND I HAVE SPOKEN BEFORE ABOUT THE FACT THAT RUSSIA IS COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT MAYBE EVEN BY SPRING OR SUMMER UKRAINE CANNOT SUSTAIN THIS.

>> YEAH, THAT'S CERTAINLY A PART OF THE RUSSIAN CALCULUS, PAULA.

AND ONE OTHER ASPECT HERE THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE THINKING ABOUT IS IF THEY MAINTAIN THEIR ALLIANCES WITH CHINA, FOR EXAMPLE, AND IRAN, THAT THEY WILL NOT ONLY BE ABLE TO HAVE THE MASS OF MANPOWER THAT IS THEIR OWN, PLUS WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM NORTH KOREA.

THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGICAL ASPECT WHERE THE DRONE SWARMS SUCH AS THOSE THAT ARE PRODUCED WITH IRANIAN HELP BOT IN RUSSIA AND IN IRAQ, THAT CAN HELP TURN THE TIDES.

RUSSIANS ARE COUNTING ON THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

HOW LONG CAN UKRAINE LAST?

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH SUPPORT UKRAINE GETS FROM THE WEST.

THAT'S GOING TO BE CRITICAL IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

IF THE WEST WERE TO INSTITUTE SOMETHING LIKE A NO-FLY ZONE, THAT WOULD STOP THE WAR BASICALLY IN ITS TRACKS RIGHT NOW.

BUT NOBODY IS TALKING IN THOSE KINDS OF TERMS IN CAPITALS, IN NATO CAPITALS, BUT IT'S ALSO SOMETHING WHERE THAT KIND OF BOLD ACTION WOULD BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE WAR.

AND I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> AND COLONEL LEIGHTON WE DO HAVE THE G7 FOREIGN MINISTERS MEETING IN CANADA RIGHT NOW TO TRY AND PARSE THIS.

WHAT IS THE BREAKTHROUGH THERE?

BECAUSE EUROPE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN SPEAKING ABOUT THIS FOR MONTHS.

THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT SEEM TO BE LISTENING, NO MATTER HOW MANY VISITS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS MADE TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> YEAH.

THIS IS CRITICAL.

A LOT OF THE EUROPEAN HELP BOTH DIPLOMATICALLY AND ECONOMICALLY REALLY DEPENDS ON EUROPE BEING ABLE TO RAMP UP ITS INDUSTRIAL BASE TO HELP SUPPORT THE UKRAINIANS.

LIKE GERMANY FOR EXAMPLE PRODUCING A LOT OF ARTILLERY, A LOT OF OTHER WEAPONRY FOR THE UKRAINIANS.

AND THAT HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANT.

YOU HAVE SWEDEN PROVIDING FIGHTERS, GRIFFIN FIGHTERS TO THE UKRAINIANS.

AND THAT WILL TAKE A WHILE TO GET THERE.

BUT THOSE KINDS OF ACTIONS ARE GOING TO BE CRUCIAL FOR UKRAINE TO MAINTAIN ITS SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS, WHAT THE EUROPEANS WILL HAVE TO DO IS THEY WANT TO CONVINCE THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE THAT'S THE QUICKER PATH TO VICTORY AS FAR AS THAT IS CONCERNED.

BUT FAILING THAT, THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PRODUCE A LOT ON THEIR OWN.

AND THAT'S WHY THEIR ECONOMIES ARE BASICALLY MOVING MORE TOWARD A WAR FOOTING.

YOU HAVE COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND WHO FOR A LONG TIME HAVE KIND OF FORESEEN WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AND THEY'RE CREATING MILITARY FORCE THAT IS NECESSARY TO MAINTAINING THEIR PRESENCE IN THE EAST, PLUS, THEY'RE ALSO TRADING CIVILIANS FOR WARTIME DUTIES.

SO THAT KIND OF EFFORT BOTH IN POLAND AND THE BALTIC STATES IS CRUCIAL ALSO NOT ONLY ECONOMICALLY AND MILITARILY, BUT ALSO PSYCHOLOGICALLY.

>> EVEN IF IT CHANGES ON THE GROUND IN EUROPE, MANY NEED THAT CEASEFIRE EVEN IF THEY CONTINUE ON A WAR FOOTING.

COLONEL LEIGHTON, APPRECIATE IT.

SO AS WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING, THE WAR GRINDS ON.

WINTER FAST APPROACHES, AND TEMPERATURES OF COURSE CONTINUE TO PLUMMET, MAKING THE SITUATION FOR SOLDIERS IN THE FRONTLINE AND CIVILIANS CAUGHT IN THE CONFLICT EVEN MORE DIRE.

MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES IS ONE OF THE ORGANIZATIONS HELPING PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

MSF SECRETARY-GENERAL CHRISTOPHER LOCKYER IS IN DNIPRO IN EASTERN UKRAINE, AND HE JOINS US NOW.

REALLY GRATEFUL FOR YOU TO JOIN US AT THIS HOUR.

I'LL ASK YOU RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING THERE WHERE YOU ARE, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF HOW IT INFORMS WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE BATTLEFIELD?

CIVILIANS ARE CLEARLY CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE EVERY DAY.

>> YEAH, CLEARLY CIVILIANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE EVERY DAY.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT WEEKS AN INCREASE IN ATTACKS ON ENERGY AND ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN PARTICULAR.

AND AS THE WINTER APPROACHES, THIS IS REALLY ANTAGONIZING AND FURTHER DEEPENING THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON THE FRONTLINE.

IT'S ALSO COMPLICATING THE HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE.

JUST THE OTHER DAY, I VISITED THREE MEDICAL FACILITIES, TWO HOSPITALS AND AN AMBULANCE DISPATCH SITE.

ALL THREE OF THEM WERE STRUGGLING WITH ENERGY SUPPLY.

THE AMBULANCE DISPATCH SITE, A TEAM WERE WAITING IN THE DARK, KEEPING THEIR MOBILE PHONES CHARGED TO BE ABLE TO HEAR ABOUT CASES THAT NEEDED REFERRAL.

AND IN THE HOSPITALS, EXTREMELY WORRIED ABOUT POWER OUTAGES DURING CRITICAL MOMENTS OF SUPPORTING PATIENTS, AND EVEN POWER SURGES, DESTROYING OR RUINING MEDICAL EQUIPMENT.

SO IT'S AT A CRITICAL MOMENT NOW AS WE HEAD INTO THE WINTER, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS CONTEXT OF DEPLETING POWER SUPPLY AND ATTACKS ON INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> AND YOU HAVE THE BENEFIT OF PERSPECTIVE.

HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE MORALE OF THE PEOPLE THERE?

BECAUSE SO MANY HAVE NOW SAID THAT ACTUALLY, UKRAINIANS MAY BE GOING INTO THEIR HARSHEST WINTER EVER COMING UP?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY TOUGH.

JUST THIS MORNING, I WAS IN A SHELTER FOR DISPLACED PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO HAD COME FROM THE FRONT LINE.

THEY WERE ON ONE HAND A LIVING ROOM FULL OF THREE OTHER FAMILIES.

THERE WAS EIGHT OR NINE PEOPLE.

AND SHE'D BEEN THERE FOR TWO OR THREE YEARS.

AT THE SAME TIME, A FEW MINUTES AFTER THAT, I MET A WOMAN FROM POKROVSK WHO WAS JUST DISPLACED A FEW WEEKS EARLIER.

HER HOUSE, HER APARTMENT HAD BEEN DESTROYED, AND SHE DISPLACED WITH A DAUGHTER AND GRANDDAUGHTER, AND SHE WAS TELLING ME ABOUT HER ISSUES IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO RECEIVE MEDICATION.

SHE HERSELF WAS STRUGGLING FROM SUFFERING WITH HYPERTENSION AND WAS REALLY AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT IS LIKE TO GET HEALTH CARE ON THE FRONT LINE THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO PARTICULARLY ELDERLY WHO ARE HAVING TO MAKE THE REALLY DIFFICULT DECISION TO STAY AND FACE THE DAILY TERROR OR FACE THE UNKNOWN AND THE FEAR OF FLEEING TO SOMEWHERE THEY DON'T KNOW, SOMEWHERE THEY DON'T BELONG AFTER MAYBE SPENDING GENERATIONS IN THE SAME BUILDING, THE SAME HOUSE, OR TENDING THE SAME FARMLANDS OVER WHAT IS OVER A THOUSAND KILOMETERS OF ACTIVE FRONTLINE.

>> AND TO THAT POINT, THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT SAYS AS OF OCTOBER 1st, ALMOST 2500 HEALTH CARE FACILITIES ARE CONFIRMED DAMAGED OR DESTROYED, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE VULNERABLE AND THOSE THAT CANNOT LEAVE AND ARE LEFT BEHIND.

YOU KNOW, THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, WHAT CAN IT DO TO CONTINUE TO WITHSTAND THESE RUSSIAN ATTACKS?

BECAUSE AS I UNDERSTAND IT, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT ATTACKED DIRECTLY, RIGHT, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS WAVE UPON WAVE OF DAMAGE TO THE ENERGY SYSTEM.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

WHAT I WOULD START BY SAYING, THE RESPONSE IS REALLY BEING LED BY THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES, THE UKRAINIAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, AND UKRAINIAN CIVIL SOCIETY ORGANIZATIONS.

SO THE COLLECTIVE UPSURGE OF RESPONSE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS NOW HAS BEEN REALLY AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE.

BUT YES, IT'S INFRASTRUCTURE.

YES, IT'S ENERGY, BUT IT'S ALSO PERSONALITIES.

IT'S ALSO HAVING ENOUGH HUMAN RESOURCES TO TRY AND TREAT THOSE PATIENTS THAT ARE SO DESPERATELY NEEDING ASSISTANCE, WHETHER THAT'S DUE TO THE PHYSICAL TRAUMA THEY'VE BEEN FACING, THE NEED FOR REHABILITATION AND PHYSIO THERAPY TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK ON TRACK, OR WHETHER IT'S PSYCHO SOCIAL SUPPORTS, PSYCHOLOGICAL SUPPORTS.

WE ESTIMATE THAT AROUND 20% OF THE POPULATION ARE SUFFERING FROM POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.

SO THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF TRAUMA WITHIN UKRAINIAN SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

AND THAT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF INJURIES SUSTAINED ON THE FRONTLINE, BUT IT'S ALSO THE FACT THAT THE WHOLE OF THE COUNTRY IS IN RANGE OF SOME OF THE VERY, VERY LONG BALLISTIC WEAPONS THAT ARE BEING USED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE AWARE WHEN THEY GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT WHERE THE NEAREST BUNKER IS IN CASE THERE IS AN AIR RAID ALERT.

SO THE WHOLE OF THE HUGE THOUSANDS OF KILOMETERS OF -- THOUSANDS OF KILOMETERS FROM THE FRONT LINE, PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM THE THREAT OF AERIAL WEAPONRY ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND IT'S REALLY TRAUMATIZING THE WHOLE POPULATION.

>> AND WHEN YOU TALK THAN TRAUMA, IT IS NOT LOST ON ANY OF US THAT WE'RE GOING INTO THE FOURTH YEAR WHERE CHILDREN, SOME CHILDREN BORN SHOULD BE GOING INTO KINDERGARTEN, AND YET ALL THEY'VE KNOWN IS WAR.

HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT IS IT FOR CHILDREN TO REALLY THE LONGER THIS LASTS, HOW MUCH MORE OF AN INDELIBLE MARK THIS KIND OF TRAUMA WILL LEAVE ON THEIR LIVES?

>> WELL, OF COURSE THE CHILDREN ARE PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE IN ANY WAR, IN ANY CONFLICT SITUATION.

AND SINCE THE FULL-SCALE ESCALATION, THAT'S PARTICULARLY SO HERE.

BUT I THINK WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT IS INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA.

IT'S GOING TO BE A GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO WITH A SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PHYSICAL TRAUMA, HAVE LOST LIMBS.

I'VE SEEN MANY PATIENTS OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS WHO HAVE HAD LIMBS AMP INDICATED.

BUT IT'S ALSO GOING TO TAKE GENERATIONS TO GET OVER THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA OF LIVING IN THIS TEMPORARY FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

SO EVEN IF THIS WAR WERE TO STOP TOMORROW, THERE IS DECADES AND DECADES AND GENERATIONS OF WORK TO DO TO REBUILD SOCIETY.

>> AND TO GET BACK TO YOUR WORK ON THE GROUND THERE IN TERMS OF MSF, HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU IN TERMS OF BEINGS ABLE TO CONTINUE TO BRING THAT HELP TO THEM ON THE GROUND?

AGAIN, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF MEDICAL FACILITIES SOME SAY ARE DELIBERATELY TARGETED BY RUSSIA, WHAT ARE YOU DEALING WITH IN THE COMING WINTER?

>> YEAH, WELL, WHETHER TARGETS HIT OR NOT, WE KNOW THE HOSPITALS HAVE BEEN HIT.

AMBULANCES HAVE BEEN HIT.

CIVILIANS WALKING IN THE STREETS OF KHERSON HAVE BEEN HIT.

SO IT'S A VERY, VERY REAL -- IT'S A VERY, VERY REAL THREAT.

OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO TRY AND BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME TO BE ABLE TO TREAT PEOPLE AS CLOSE TO THE FRONTLINE AS POSSIBLE.

THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY DYNAMIC.

AS FRONT LINES MOVE, WE HAVE TO MOVE WHERE WE'RE CARRYING OUT OUR WORK.

WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO ASSESS NEW HEALTH FACILITIES WHERE WE'LL BE ABLE TO SUPPORT.

THAT MEANS LOTS OF MOBILE CLINICS, AMBULANCE SERVICES TO BE ABLE TO TRY AND REFER PATIENTS TO -- TO HIGH-LEVEL MEDICAL FACILITIES.

BUT ALSO HAVING AREAS IN WHICH WE CAN CARRY OUT LONGER TERM TREATMENT.

SO PARTICULARLY PEOPLE WHO REQUIRE REHABILITATION, PHYSIO THERAPY, BOTH IN THE ACUTE PHASE AFTER A SURGERY, BUT ALSO SO THAT THEY CAN SUSTAIN THAT FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AND MONTHS TO COME, AND ALSO SUSTAIN MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT FOR ISSUES LIKE PTSD, LIKE WE SAID.

IT'S A PATCHWORK OF ACTIVITIES BOTH TO TRY TO MAINTAIN CONTACT WITH PATIENTS, BUT ALSO TO BE CREATIVE TO BE SURE WE CAN GET HEALTH CARE TO AS CLOSE TO THE FRONTLINES AND THE MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS AS WE CAN.

>> AND CHRISTOPHER, YOU WERE VERY CLEAR THAT OF COURSE UKRAINIAN CIVIL SOCIETY ITSELF DOES LEAD ON THE MEDICAL ASPECTS OF THIS.

BUT HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT WHAT THAT SYSTEM ACTUALLY BUCKLING?

ESPECIALLY WHEN I LOOK AT THE SWATH OF ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS BEEN IMPACTED, THAT IS HOSPITALS, CLINICS HAVING TO WORK WITH GENERATORS IF THEN THEY CAN GET THE FUEL.

THERE IS LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT GO INTO KEEPING THESE MEDICAL FACILITIES UP AND RUNNING.

HOW WORRY READY YOU GOING INTO WINTER?

>> I THINK WE'RE EXTREMELY WORRIED GOING INTO WINTER.

WE'VE HAD TO CLOSE OPERATIONS AND LOCATIONS BECAUSE OF PROXIMITY TO THE FRONTLINE AND TRYING TO AS MUCH ADDS POSSIBLE KEEP OUR TEAMS SAFE.

SO WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE ALSO WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO MEAN IN TERMS OF PEOPLE DISPLACING AND FLEEING OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS AS WELL.

AS THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE IS HIT AND DEPLETE, IT DOES MEAN THAT PEOPLE'S LIVING CONDITIONS, THEIR HUMANITARIAN SITUATIONS, THEIR NEED, THEIR DESPERATE NEED TO KEEP WARM INCREASES.

AND AS THE FRONT LINES MOVE, THAT ALSO PUTS THEM UNDER PRESSURE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO EXPECT TO SEE PEOPLE MOVING OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AS THE TEMPERATURES DROP, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY, WHICH IS GOING TO FURTHER COMPOUND THE DEMANDS ON THE HEALTH FACILITIES THROUGHOUT, PARTICULARLY EASTERN UKRAINE, BUT ALSO THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

>> CHRISTOPHER LOCKYER, WE WISH YOU AND YOUR TEAMS ON THE GROUND MUCH STRENGTH IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS TO COME.

CHRISTOPHER LOCKYER FOR US.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> AND NOW TO IRAQ, WHERE TODAY'S PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS ARE UNDER WAY.

A STAGGERING 8,000 CANDIDATES ARE COMPETING, BUT SOME POLLS PREDICT IT COULD BE THE LOWEST TURNOUT IN THE COUNTRY'S YOUNG DEMOCRATIC LIFE AFTER ITS TRANSITION IN 2005.

NOW THIS MOMENT OFFERS US A CHANCE TO REFLECT ON THE VAST CHANGES IRAQ HAS UNDERGONE IN THE LAST TWO DECADES.

FROM THE U.S.

INVASION AND THE TOPPLING OF SADDAM HUSSEIN TO THE YEARS OF WAR, UNCERTAINTY, AND EVENTUAL REBUILDING THAT FOLLOWED.

NOW A NEW FILM TAKES US BACK TO THE TIME WHEN THE NOTORIOUS DICTATOR WAS STILL IN POWER.

"THE PRESIDENT'S CAKE" TELLS THE SEEMINGLY SIMPLE STORY OF LAMIA, A SCHOOLGIRL WHO IS TASKED WITH MAKING A CAKE FOR SADDAM'S BIRTHDAY.

THE ASSIGNMENT REVEALS MUCH MORE ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES OF LIVING AND GROWING UP UNDER AUTHORITARIAN RULE.

AND I AM JOINED NOW BY THE WRITER AND DIRECTOR OF "THE PRESIDENT'S CAKE," HASAN HADI.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

REALLY GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> NOW PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

I WILL TAKE SOME CREATIVE LICENSE HERE, BECAUSE I WOULD DESCRIBE THIS AS IRAQ'S ORIGIN STORY THAT'S NEVER BEEN TOLD.

IT'S ACTUALLY YOUR ORIGIN STORY.

YOU GREW UP IN IRAQ, AND YOU CHOSE TO WRITE THIS AND MAKE IT YOUR DIRECTORIAL DEBUT.

WHAT DOES THIS FILM MEAN TO YOU?

>> I MEAN, THE FILM MEANS A LOT BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON MY CHILDHOOD MEMORIES GROWING UP IN IRAQ.

AND AS YOU SAID, IT'S MY ORIGINS, AND THE FILM IS PROBABLY SHOT IN THE MARSHES OF IRAQ, WHICH IS BEING SAID IS WHERE THE CIVILIZATION WAS BORN.

SO IT WAS IN MANY WAYS THE ORIGIN OF ME, THE ORIGIN OF IRAQ IDENTITY, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S ALSO THE ORIGIN OF WHAT WE ARE NOW AS IRAQ IN 2025.

>> THE CINEMATOGRAPHY WAS SO STUNNING.

WE WERE PRIVILEGED TO GET A PREVIEW OF IT.

IT DOESN'T RELEASE WIDELY UNTIL NEXT YEAR.

BUT I ACTUALLY FOUND THE CINEMATOGRAPHY SO BREATHTAKING AT TIMES, IT WAS DISTRACTING.

TELL ME, YOU COULD HAVE SHOT THIS IN OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER FOR YOU.

BUT YOU SAID IRAQ IS IN THE DNA OF THIS FILM.

HOW SO?

>> YEAH, WE ACTUALLY GOT MULTIPLE OFFERS LIKE TO BE FULLY FINANCED UNDER THE CONDITION TO SHOOT THE FILM OUTSIDE IRAQ.

BUT WE DECIDE TO SHOOT THIS FILMING IN IRAQ BECAUSE I BELIEVE STORIES HAVE DNAs, AND THEY HAVE ORIGINS AND THEY HAVE STAMP ON THEM.

YOU CANNOT REALLY FAKE THAT.

AND THIS FILM HAS SUCH A STRONG DNA THAT I REALLY COULDN'T SEE THIS FILM BEING SHOT ANYWHERE EXCEPT IN IRAQ.

AND ALSO, I WANTED TO BREAK THE STIGMA ABOUT IRAQ.

I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE VERY SPECIFIC IDEA ABOUT WHAT IRAQ IS AND HOW CIVIL IRAQ IS.

SO FOR ME, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT AS A FILMMAKER TO INSIST THAT THIS FILM IS GOING TO BE TOLD FROM IRAQ BY IRAQI ACTORS, AND IT'S GOING TO TELL A VERY LOCAL STORY TO AN INTERNATIONAL AUDIENCE.

>> AND SPECIFICALLY, SOME OF THOSE SCENES, THE SHOOTING ON THE MARSHLANDS WAS RIVETING, THE SCENES OF THE CITY SO EVOCATIVE.

BUT I AM WONDERING HOW DOES THIS COMPLIMENT WHAT IS REALLY A CHARACTER-DRIVEN FILM?

>> I MEAN, THE FILM, THE THING IS IT IS A STORY THAT TAKES US ON A JOURNEY FROM THE SOUTH OF IRAQ TO THE CITY OF BAGHDAD.

SO WE REALLY FOLLOW THIS GIRL, AND WE REALLY ARE VERY MUCH IMMERSED INTO HER PERSPECTIVE AS SHE TRIES TO BRING THE PRESIDENT'S BIRTHDAY TO CELEBRATE SADDAM HUSSEIN'S BIRTHDAY.

SO WE REALLY GO ON THIS JOURNEY AND UNPACK SO MUCH OF IRAQI SOCIETY AT THAT TIME BECAUSE THE FILM TAKES PLACE IN THE '90s, AND IT'S A PERIOD THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DEPICTED ON SCREEN, NEITHER LOCALLY OR INTERNATIONALLY.

SO IT WAS VERY MUCH LIKE AN IMPORTANT PART OF IRAQ'S STORY.

AS A FILMMAKER, I WAS VERY MUCH SURPRISED AND SHOCKED WHEN I WAS TRYING TO TELL THE STORY THAT NO ONE HAS EVEN DEPICTED THIS PERIOD.

IT'S STRIKING BECAUSE IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT -- WE REALLY FEEL THE IMPACT OF THAT PERIOD.

WE HAD SANCTIONS FOR 15 YEARS.

MANY PEOPLE PAID THE PRICE FOR THAT SANCTIONS, AND WE STILL STRUGGLE FROM THE AFTEREFFECTS OR SIDE EFFECTS OF THE SANCTIONS EVEN UNTIL NOW.

>> INDEED.

AND I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CHARACTERS NOW.

LAMIA, PLAYED BY BENIN NAIF, SHE NEVER ACTED BEFORE.

YOU TOOK QUITE A RISK.

AND YET THE FILM TRULY RESTS ON ONE EXTRAORDINARY DAY IN THIS LITTLE GIRL'S LIFE AND HOW SHE REACTS TO IT.

YOU MAKE REALLY, HER THE CENTERPIECE OF NEARLY EVERY SCENE.

I WANT US TO LOOK AT A CLIP NOW FROM THE FILM WHERE SHE IS TOLD BY HER TEACHER THAT SHE WILL BE E ING SADDAM HUSSEIN'S BIRTHDAY CAKE.

LISTEN.

>> YOU SEE THE ENORMITY OF WHAT SHE IS BEING ASKED ALL OVER HER FACE.

I MEAN, LOOK, THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY PERFORMANCE, BUT SHE IS A NOVICE YOUNG TALENT.

HOW DID YOU COAX THIS PERFORMANCE OUT OF HER?

>> I MEAN, ALL OF OUR CAST WAS, YOU KNOW, NONACTORS.

BUT WITH HER, SHE WAS THE LAST PERSON WE ACTUALLY CAST FOR THE FILM.

AND IT WAS VERY MUCH LIKE A SHORT TIME BEFORE WE STARTED SHOOTING.

AND I RECEIVED THIS 30-SECOND CLIP OF HER SAYING HER NAME AND SCHOOL.

AND I WAS IMMEDIATELY DRAWN TO PUT HER IN THE FILM.

BUT AT THE BEGINNING, WE ACTUALLY WERE FACED BY THE PARENTS' OPPOSITION TO HAVE THEIR DAUGHTER ON THE SCREEN.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE ALSO STRUGGLE WITH WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE THE FILM.

BUT IT TOOK US SOME EXPLANATION AND CONVINCING THAT, YOU KNOW, LATER THE PARENTS BECAME VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THEIR DAUGHTER TO BE IN THE FILM.

SHE IS A NATURAL TALENT.

I BELIEVE THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR A KID THAT DOESN'T NEED TO ACT.

IT'S JUST HOW THEY ARE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH AN ACTOR IS A VERY TECHNIQUE THAN WORKING WITH ACTORS.

YOU NEED TO MAKE THEM IN A VERY CERTAIN SITUATION THAT THEY BELIEVE IS HAPPENING IS REAL AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN -- IT'S DIFFERENT FOR THEM THAN ACTORS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE -- THEY DON'T HAVE THE TRAINING, THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS THAT THEY CAN ACCESS LIKE ACTORS DO.

SO FOR VERY MUCH FOR THIS CASE, WHAT WAS HAPPENING FOR LARGELY THEY WERE BELIEVING IN IT TOO.

>> HASSAN, IN YOUR FIRST DIRECTORIAL DEBUT, YOU BROKE ALL THE RULES.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH ANIMALS OR CHILDREN IN YOUR FIRST FILM.

WE SAW A PICTURE THERE OF HINDI, THE PET ROOSTER.

HOW WAS IT LIKE WORKING WITH IT?

IT WAS REALLY COMICAL TO WATCH.

>> I HAVE TO SAY, WE HAVE FOUR OR FIVE ROOSTERS ON SET.

WE HAD ONE STAR THAT HE WOULD DO -- WE CALLED HIM HINDI 1 TAKER.

I LEARNED HOW TO SPEAK WITH HINDI.

SO IT WAS REALLY NICE.

HINDI ALSO REPRESENTS SOMETHING IN THE FILM.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE FROM THAT REGION REALLY HAVE SO MANY PETS.

THEY CAN BE BUFFALO, DOGS, CATS, AND HER PET WAS A ROOSTER.

BUT ROOSTER ALSO HAS A CULTURAL MEANING WHICH THEY'RE MAGICAL ANIMALS AND YOUS ARE BECAUSE HE SAW A DEVIL OR AN ANGEL.

IN THE FILM, EVERY TIME THERE IS CROWS THERE IS MEANING OR WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SCENE.

>> IT CERTAINLY SAID WHAT WAS EVOCATIVE, BUT ALSO HUMOROUS.

THERE IS DELIGHTFUL HUMOR IN THIS FILM.

>> YEAH.

>> THE HUMOR THAT AT TIMES THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE ABSURDITY OF LIVING UNDER THIS KIND OF DICTATORSHIP THE CREW JOKE OF HAVING TO BAKE A CAKE WHEN PEOPLE COULDN'T FIND EGGS OR SUGAR.

HOW DO YOU WANT AUDIENCES TO UNDERSTAND THAT PERIOD OF TIME IN IRAQ'S HISTORY WHICH YOU LIVED THROUGH, RIGHT?

APPARENTLY YOU HAD TO BRING WAS IT FRUIT OR FLOWERS YOU HAD TO BRING TO YOUR CLASS?

>> I WAS LUCKY I WAS PICKED FOR FLOWERS.

BUT THAT FLOWERS IS AN EASY THING AND ALSO TEACHERS DIDN'T SO MUCH GIVE SPECIFIC ATTENTION TO IT BECAUSE ALL THEY CARED ABOUT IS CAKE AND EATING THE CAKE.

I DIDN'T TASTE THE CAKE UNTIL I WAS PRETTY OLD, TO BE HONEST.

AND THAT WAS THE CASE.

THE TEACHERS TAKE THE CAKE TO SHARE WITH HIS FAMILY.

YOU LIVE -- DICTATORSHIPS ARE LIKE A MATTER OF PARADOX.

YOU ARE BEING ASKED BY YOUR PRESIDENT TO BRING A CAKE WHEN THE COUNTRY -- WHEN THE SUGAR AND FLOUR OR SELLING SUGAR AND FLOUR IS BANNED IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS THE PARADOX WE USED TO LIVE IN.

AND AT THE SAME TIME THERE WAS THE SANCTIONS WHICH IMPACTED EVERYONE IN THE SOCIETY AND CHANGED THE FABRIC OF THE SOCIETY TO A LARGE DEGREE.

>> IN FACT, YOU SAID THE SANCTIONS WERE MORE HARMFUL IN SOME WAYS THAN THE AMERICAN INVASION.

AND TAKING FROM THAT, I WONDER HOW YOU BELIEVE YOUR FILM RESONATES WITH CHILDREN ALL OVER THE WORLD, BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, THERE ARE CHILDREN LIVING UNDER THOSE SANCTIONS TODAY AND LIVING IN DEPLORABLE CONDITIONS.

>> I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT WHEN THEY WATCH THIS FILM, THAT I KNOW IN MAINSTREAM IDEA, SANCTIONS IS PERCEIVED AS A NONHARMFUL AND VERY DIPLOMATIC TOOL.

BUT SANCTIONS CAN BE MORE TERRIFYING AND MORE HARMFUL THAN HONESTLY SOMETIMES BOMBS.

SANCTIONS, 13 YEARS OF SANCTION LED TO 500,000 DEATH IN CHILDREN IN IRAQ.

AND WHAT THEY DO, THEY STRIP PEOPLE FROM THEIR HUMANITY AND DIGNITY, AND THEY CHANGE THE NATURE OF PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN IRAQ.

IRAQ WAS -- IRAQ IS A SOCIETY CHANGED COMPLETELY BECAUSE OF THE SANCTIONS.

IT'S VERY DIFFERENT SITUATION WHEN PARENTS CANNOT AFFORD FOR THEIR CHILDREN WHAT THEY WANT.

FOR EXAMPLE, IT WAS REALLY DIFFICULT FOR MY FAMILY SOMETIMES TO EVEN AFFORD, YOU KNOW, BASIC NEED FOR THE SCHOOL, PEN AND PENCILS WERE BANNED FROM IMPORTING INTO IRAQ BECAUSE THEY CONTAINED A COMPONENT THAT COULD BE USED IN A WEAPON.

SO THAT'S WHY IRAQ WAS BANNED FROM IMPORTING PENS AND PENCILS.

AND THAT'S WHY I HOPE THAT THE AUDIENCE UNDERSTAND THE SANCTIONS IS NOT ONLY TARGETING LEADERS, IT'S BASICALLY TARGETS THE ORDINARY PEOPLE, EVERYDAY PEOPLE, AND THAT'S WHY THE FILM FOCUSES ON -- IT TELLS THE STORY OF EVERYDAY IRAQI PEOPLE, PEOPLE THAT USUALLY WILL READ AND HEAR ABOUT THEM AS NUMBERS.

>> HASAN HADI.

THE FILM IS "THE PRESIDENT'S CAKE," AND IT'S OUT IN THEATERS IN FEBRUARY.

AND CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> NOW SINCE 2001, MORE THAN 140,000 AMERICAN VETERANS AND ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIERS HAVE TAKEN THEIR OWN LIVES.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE ORGANIZATION STOP SOLDIER SUICIDE.

MANY WHO SERVED ABROAD RETURN HOME TRAUMATIZED WITH LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

NOW A NEW DOCUMENTARY "IN WAVES AND WAR" FOLLOWS THOSE WHO SOUGHT OUT AN UNCONVENTIONAL ALTERNATIVE IN MEXICO IN HOPES OF HEALING.

>> HE WAS DOING ALL THE THINGS HE WAS TOLD TO DO, AND HE WAS ACTUALLY GETTING WORSE.

I GOT HIS MEDICAL RECORDS.

I COMPLETELY CHANGED MY APPROACH.

PSYCHEDELIC MEDICINES PROVED TO BE EFFECTIVE.

BUT BOTH ARE ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO MARCUS WOULD HAVE TO TRAVEL TO MEXICO.

>> AND DIRECTOR BONNI COHEN AND FORMER NAVY S.E.A.L.

MARCUS CAPONE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN IN THIS CONVERSATION.

>> PAULA, THANKS.

BONNI COHEN, MARCUS CAPONE, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR RECENT FILM THAT'S NOW VISIBLE ON NETFLIXS EVERYWHERE IS A REALLY FASCINATING JOURNEY.

MARCUS, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

IT IS A DOCUMENTARY CALLED "IN WAVES AND WAR," AND IT'S ABOUT VETERANS GOING TO MEXICO TO TRY A PSYCHEDELIC TREATMENT TO TRY TO OVERCOME SOME OF THE INTENSE PTSD AND TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURIES.

AND I GUESS -- I GUESS I JUST WANT TO START BY ASKING WHY DID YOU TRY THIS TREATMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> YEAH, I THINK -- I THINK THE MOVIE IS A LOT BROADER THAN THAT.

I MEAN, THIS IS A VERY HUMAN -- IT'S A HUMAN TOUCH.

IT'S A HUMAN ELEMENT.

AND THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT.

IT FOLLOWS THREE NAVY S.E.A.L.s, TWO INDIVIDUALS I STARTED WITH FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

AS A NATION WE FOUGHT 20 YEARS OF SUSTAINED COMBAT.

WE'VE NEVER SEEN THAT IN HISTORY.

IT'S UNPRECEDENTED.

AND INDIVIDUALS COMING HOME ARE REALLY INTRODUCED TO THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

AND WHETHER THAT'S MILITARY MEDICINE OR V.A.

HEALTH CARE WHEN SOMEONE RETIRES OR SEPARATES OR EVEN PRIVATE SECTOR CARE.

GRANTED, THERE ARE MANY INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE THAT WANT TO HELP.

THE PROBLEM IS THE SYSTEM IS A BIT OLD AND MANY OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, ABOUT 50%, INCLUDING MYSELF, AND I WAS ONE THAT COMES BACK, WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED TREATMENT RESISTANT MENTAL HEALTH.

MEANING THE MEDICINES, THE DRUGS, THE ANTIDEPRESSANTS, THE SSRIs, THE SNRIs, THE TRADITIONAL TALK THERAPY, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK FOR HALF OF THE SITUATION.

SO WHAT DO WE DO?

WE NEED TO POUR MONEY INTO RESEARCH AND WE NEED TO HAVE AFFORDABLE ACCESS IN THE U.S.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING OUTSIDE THE U.S.

TO PLACES WHERE THESE TREATMENTS ARE LEGAL AND UNREGULATED.

FOR ME, SEVEN YEARS OF FAILED ANTIDEPRESSANT TALK THERAPY, I HAD TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY TO SEEK OUT THE CARE THAT REALLY AFFORDED ME WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY.

>> BONNI, WHAT'S FASCINATING TO ME, AS MARCUS MENTIONED, THIS IS SUCH A SORT OF HUMAN STORY.

HOW DID YOU FIGURE OUT A WAY TO JUST LET THESE PEOPLE BE VULNERABLE IN FRONT OF YOU ON CAMERA, WHICH SEEMS COMPLETELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT HAS BEEN THEIR WINNING FORMULA IN THEIR LIVES WHICH I'M NOT GOING TALK ABOUT WHAT I DO.

>> I MEAN, I WOULD ARGUE THIS IS A WINNING FORMULA.

TRYING TO HEROISM AND -- HEROISM IN VULNERABILITY IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

AND THIS IS THEIR NEXT MISSION, RIGHT.

AND THEY'RE THERE FOR EACH OTHER, AND THEY'RE THERE TO GET WELL.

AND FIND HEALING BOTH FOR THEMSELVES AS INDIVIDUALS AND ALSO FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

JUST TO BE COMPLETELY FRANK ABOUT IT, WE WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN ANY OF THIS WITHOUT MARCUS AND AMBER BASICALLY CREATING AN ENTRYWAY FOR US TO THEIR COMMUNITY.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT IS TRAINED TO BE LOW-KEY, SECRETIVE, NOT PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE LIVES.

AND IT TOOK YEARS OF TRUST WITH THE GUIDANCE OF MARCUS AND AMBER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

AND LIKE WITH ANY FILM, IF YOU TAKE TIME AND CARE AND CREATE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, THE VULNERABILITY CAN EMERGE.

AND THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT WANTS TO HELP EACH OTHER.

>> MARCUS, YOU SERVED SEVERAL TOURS IN AFGHANISTAN.

YOU RETIRED FROM THE MILITARY IN 2013.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT IF YOU CAN ABOUT THE COMBAT SITUATIONS, WHAT CAUSED THE PTSD.

WHAT CAUSED YOU TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE YOU WERE SO HEAVILY MEDICATED THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING THAT YOU MAYBE HAD REACHED YOUR WIT'S END?

>> YEAH.

SO MULTIPLE TOURS BOTH TO AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ, '303 TO ROUGHLY 2010, BACK AND FORTH.

I JUST THINK THE CULMINATION OF YEARS OF COMBAT, YEARS OF CONSTANTLY YOU'RE ON THAT BULLET TRAIN, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY DEPLOYING, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY AWAY 300 DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR.

NOW YOU MIX IN WHICH SO MUCH RESEARCH IS COMING OUT WITH TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY.

WE'LL CALL IT MILD TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY.

THESE ARE INJURIES TO THE BRAIN THAT ARE SUBCONCUSSIVE.

THESE ARE THE ONES NOT BEING KNOCKED OUT.

GRANTED THE ONES KNOCKED OUT FROM EXPLOSION, THOSE ARE CONCUSSIVE BLOWS.

THESE ARE SUBCONCUSSIVE.

THERE IS RESEARCH OPERATOR SYNDROME.

VERY SIMILAR SYMPTOMS AS PTSD.

I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

BECAUSE THE TERM PTSD IS ALSO STIGMATIZED.

BUT REALLY IT'S JUST A HOST OF SYMPTOMS THEY HAVE IN DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, POTENTIALLY SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER TO NUMB THOSE THINGS.

IT'S THE CULMINATION OF MAYBE SOME CHILDHOOD TRAUMA, FINDING OUT.

THAT'S VERY PREVALENT.

OF COURSE WARTIME TRAUMA, YEARS OF DEPLOYMENTS, YEARS OF BURYING YOUR FRIENDS.

THEN YOU LEAVE YOUR FAMILY.

YOU TRANSITION INTO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME -- TO ME, IT'S THE EASY WAY TO EXPLAIN.

IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME PASSION AND PURPOSE AND MISSION THAT YOU HAD FOR SO LONG.

SO YOU THROW ALL THAT TOGETHER, AND IT'S KIND OF A CULMINATION FOR DISASTER.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING THROUGH.

>> BEFORE WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IBOGAINE, WHILE INITIAL RESEARCH SHOWS SOME POSITIVE RESULTS, THE NAVY HAS A ZERO TOLERANCE FOR DRUG ABUSE AND S.E.A.L.s SHOULD SEEK CARE THROUGH APPROVED MEDICAL CHANNELS.

IF THAT IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT AND THE NAVY SEES THIS, MARCUS, I WANT YOU TO TELL A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IS THIS DRUG?

WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY GOING TO THE BRAIN OR WHAT IT IS ALLOWING THE BRYNN TO DO ON ITS OWN?

>> SURE.

SO AS A NONMEDICAL EXPERT, I DON'T HAVE MD OR Ph.D AFTER MY NAME, BUT I BOGAINE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S.

>> TRACKED FROM A ROOT GROWN IN WEST AFRICA.

TRIBES HAVE BEEN USING IT THERE FOR MANY YEARS FOR MENTAL HEALTH AND DETOXIFICATION AND OTHER SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

CONSCIOUSNESS ENHANCEMENT.

IBOGAINE IS THE MOST PREVALENT IN IBOGA.

THEY EXTRACT THE SINGLE MOLECULE AND PUTS YOU ON A SIX TO EIGHT-HOUR VERY INTENSE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE.

NOT YOUR TYPICAL PSYCHEDELICS LIKE LSD OR PSILOCYBIN WHERE EVERYTHING IS KIND OF A LITTLE WEIRD.

IBOGAINE, IT'S AN EXTREMELY MEDICALIZED TREATMENT.

SO YOU'RE IN A BED.

YOU DO A TON OF BLOOD WORK.

YOU DO A EKG.

YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN YOUR SYSTEM, AS BONNI MENTIONED.

THERE ARE CONTRAINDICATIONS.

YOU'RE CONSTANTLY MONITORED BY NURSE AND BY DOCTORS.

WHAT IT DOES IS IT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE THAT MAY BE AFFECTING YOU ON YOUR DAY TO DAY FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

SO FOR INSTANCE, AND THIS ONE IS EASY, I WAS JUDGING MY FAMILY, REALLY DIFFICULT.

LIKE I WOULD JUDGE AMBER, I WOULD JUDGE THE KIDS, WHY DO YOU DO THIS, WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

DURING MY IBOGAINE JOURNEY, I HAD A PERSPECTIVE SHIFT.

I FELT WHAT IT WAS LIKE BEING JUDGED BY MY FATHER.

AND IT HURT.

AND WHEN YOU'RE IN THE EXPERIENCE, YOU ACTUALLY FEEL IT.

YOU ACTUALLY -- DJ TALKS ABOUT I FELT THE SWEAT ON MY SHIRT.

YOU'RE IN THE MOMENT.

AND I FELT HOW HORRIBLE IT IS TO BE JUDGED LIKE THAT.

AND THEN I SAW MYSELF JUDGING MY FAMILY.

YOU KNOW WHAT I SAID?

I WILL NEVER JUDGE THEM AGAIN.

AND SO JUST THINK OF HOW MANY YEARS OF THERAPY THAT CAN TAKE TO CHANGE AN INDIVIDUAL WHERE THAT HAPPENS LITERALLY OVERNIGHT.

AND THAT STORY IS REPLICATED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TIMES OVER.

BUT IT'S JUST A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY DO.

>> BONNI, YOU CHOSE A VERY INTERESTING VEHICLE TO HELP THE VIEWER UNDERSTAND WHAT MARCUS OR THE OTHER VETERANS.

TELL US ABOUT HOW YOU CHOSE TO -- HOW YOU VISUALIZED AND DESIGNED WHAT IS POSSIBLY HAPPENING IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S BRAIN AND SHARING THAT WITH THE AUDIENCE ON NETFLIX.

>> SURE.

WELL, MARCUS TALKED ABOUT IT.

THE PERSPECTIVE SHIFT THAT HAPPENS IN THE IBOGAINE IN THE MEDICINE WHERE AS HE DESCRIBED, YOU'RE NOT ONLY GOING THROUGH A LIFE REVIEW, BUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SHAPE SHIFT INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S POINT OF VIEW AND WATCH THE SCENE FROM ANOTHER ANGLE.

THAT LENDS ITSELF TO AN ANIMATED VISUAL EXPERIENCE.

>> I WAS ABLE TO SEE THESE DIFFICULT MOMENTS FROM MY LIFE FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE.

AND IT MADE ME REALIZE THAT NONE OF THIS WAS MY FAULT.

>> THE WEIGHT WAS GETTING LIFTED OFF.

>> IN MARCUS' EXPERIENCE, HE DESCRIBES SEEING A PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS LIFE GOING BY LIKE A DECK OF CARDS.

I MEAN, FOR US AS VISUAL STORYTELLERS, BEING ABLE TO USE THAT IMAGERY AND TRANSLATE THAT INTO ANIMATION FELT LIKE JUST THE WAY TO GO BECAUSE A PHOTOREALISTIC APPROACH WOULD BE KIND OF CRAZY.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT?

WHERE IF YOU CAN BE IN A MORE ETHEREAL, ANIMATED SPACE AND RECOGNIZE THOSE DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHS AND ELEMENTS AND STORYTELLING WHILE ALSO HAVING THE PERSPECTIVE SHIFTS VISUALLY, WE SAW THAT THAT COULD SORT OF CREATE A PSEUDO EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN THE IBOGAINE AND WHAT THESE GUYS MIGHT BE SEEING.

>> THE MEDICINE TAKES YOU RIGHT TO THE CREST AND YOU FALL OFF.

>> YOU GET INTO THIS LINE OF WORK BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE IT'S WHO WE ARE.

>> WHAT YOU REALLY DO IN THE FILM IS POINT OUT HOW CRUCIAL AND IMPORTANT THE FAMILY WAS IS AROUND THEM, AND THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS INDIVIDUAL AND WHAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES IT DESTROYS FAMILIES.

SOMETIMES IT'S JUST THE CHALLENGES THAT THEY QUIETLY LIVE WITH.

>> YEAH.

WE REALLY TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT THE FAMILIES IN THE FILM.

CADEN, MARCUS, AMBER'S SON WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FILM AND ALSO SHOW HIS VULNERABILITY WHICH IN MY MIND IS EQUALLY, AS YOU POINT OUT AS VALID AND INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER AS THE VETERANS, THE SERVICE PEOPLE, THE MILITARY COMING HOME.

AND I JUST I THINK WHAT WE REALLY TRIED TO DO WITH THE FILM IS SHOW HOW THE WIVES -- MARCUS TALKED ABOUT AMBER BEING HIS ROCK AND HIS REASON FOR SURVIVAL.

THAT'S REALLY TRUE, AND WE SAW THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH THE WIVES WHO WE SPOKE TO WHEN THEY WERE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, THEIR HUSBANDS WHO THEY LOVED, WHO THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY RECOGNIZED COME HOME REALLY ACTING IN SEEMING LIKE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

AND THEY DIDN'T -- THEY DIDN'T QUITE KNOW WHAT TO DO.

AND YOU SORT OF LIVE IN THE SHAME OF THAT, AND THE QUIET OF THAT THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE YOU CAN TALK TO PEOPLE FREELY AND TRY AND GET THE HELP THAT'S NEEDED.

AND THERE IS A PARTICULAR FORMULA IN THIS COUNTRY FOR WHAT THAT HELP SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

AND IT WASN'T THE RIGHT HELP.

AND THESE WOMEN YOU SEE IN THE FILM, YOU SEE AMBER, AND THEN YOU SEE PATSY SHIPLEY, DJ'S WIFE REACH OUT TO AMBER TO SEEK HELP FOR HER HUSBAND.

AND THEY ARE TENACIOUS.

THEY GO AFTER THESE REMEDIES AND THESE SOLUTIONS, AND THEY WILL TRY ANYTHING.

AND IT WORKS FOR THEM, AND THEY'RE WILLING TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, GO TO THE LAST STOP ON THE TRAIN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR FAMILY CAN COME BACK TO HEALTH.

SO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HEROINS HEROIN HEROINES AND HEROES YOU LOOK AT THE WIVES.

>> FOUR TIMES AS MANY SERVICE MEMBERS AND VETERANS HAVE DIED BY SUICIDE THAN HAVE BEEN KILLED IN COMBAT.

THAT IS JUST AN ASTOUNDING NUMBER.

WHAT TYPES OF TREATMENTS WERE THEY TRYING, ASSUMING NOT ALL OF THEM HAD THE SAME OUTCOMES, NOT ALL OF THEM CHOSE TO TRY THIS TREATMENT IN MEXICO.

>> WE'VE LOST NOW OVER 140,000 VETERANS, ACTIVE DUTY JUST TO -- BY THEIR OWN HAND, DEATH BY SUICIDE.

AND IT'S HEART WRENCHING TO THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT WE FIGHT THESE WARS, WE DO IT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, WE DO IT FOR OUR COUNTRY.

WE DO IT FOR OURSELVES.

AND THEN WE COME HOME AND FIGHT THIS OTHER BATTLE, AND WE'RE LOSING SO MANY MORE INDIVIDUALS TO SUICIDE THAN WE DID ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

THERE IS JUST SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

THERE IS SOMETHING -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT BROKEN, BECAUSE, AGAIN, WHEN YOU GO DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, NO MATTER WHERE WE'RE AT, THE V.A., THE MILITARY MEDICAL SYSTEM, PRIVATE CARE, EVERYBODY WANTS TO HELP.

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE THE TOOLS RIGHT NOW TO DO THAT.

AND TO GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE STANDARD TREATMENT OF CARE FOR FOLKS COMING BACK THAT ARE LABELED AS HAVING PTSD OR SYMPTOMS OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY, IT'S A BAG OF PILLS.

IT'S ANTIDEPRESSANTS.

IT'S SSRIs.

IT'S SNRIs.

IT'S MOOD STABILIZERS.

THE PROBLEM IF INDIVIDUALS DON'T RESPOND TO THOSE, THEY UP THEIR DOSE OR THEY CHANGE THEIR MEDICATION.

AND THEN INDIVIDUALS START HAVING OTHER SYMPTOMS.

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CONSTRAIN.

SO THEY'VE GIVEN DRUGS LIKE NEW VIGIL AND PROVIGIL.

THESE THINGS GAVE ME INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE MIGRAINE HEADACHES.

SOME FOLKS ARE PRESCRIBED ED D ADDERALL.

NOW THEY CAN'T SLEEP.

THEY'RE PRESCRIBED AMBIEN AND OTHER SLEEP DRUGS TO GO TO BED.

>> BONNI, DID YOU NOTICE A CHANGE IN THE PEOPLE WHO WENT THROUGH THIS TREATMENT?

AND ALSO, YOU HAVE A SECTION IN HERE WITH A RESEARCHER AT STANFORD WHO IS TRYING A VERY CLINICAL WAY TO FOLLOW THE OUTCOMES OF THIS.

WHERE ARE WE IN UNDERSTANDING WHETHER THIS TREATMENT IS PRODUCING CHANGES?

>> IT'S NOT ONE AND DONE.

IT CAN'T BE.

THAT WOULD BE A CRAZY CONCEPT.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SAW INCREDIBLE CHANGES IN MATTY.

HE WANTED TO TALK.

HE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE SAW AND WHAT HE EXPERIENCED.

AND HOW HE COULD START TO LET GO OF THE FEAR THAT HAD BEEN GRIPPING HIM FROM A VERY, VERY EARLY AGE.

AND THAT WAS -- AND THE LIGHT THAT COMES BACK ON AND A LOT OF THE GUYS TALK ABOUT THIS LIGHT THAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IN THEIR EYES SINCE THEY WERE SMALLER CHILDREN.

ET CETERA.

AND THEN WE REALLY SAW SOME INTERESTING, SIGNIFICANT, AS YOU POINT OUT WITH THE STANFORD STUDY CLINICAL CHANGE.

BECAUSE THE STANFORD RESEARCHERS WERE DOING THESE INTERVIEWS WITH THE GUYS RIGHT BEFORE THEY WENT DOWN TO MEXICO, AND THEN RIGHT WHEN THEY CAME BACK.

AND OF COURSE THEY INTERVIEW THEM.

THEY DO PSYCHOLOGICAL MEASURES.

THEY DO INTERVIEWS.

THEY DO ALL OF THIS WORK WITH THEM.

RIGHT AFTER THEY COME BACK FROM MEXICO, AND ALSO 30 DAYS AFTER THAT.

AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE FILM IS THE FILM ACTUALLY OPENS WITH THESE GUYS GOING DOWN TO MEXICO, BEING SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF THE NFORD RESEARCHERS REALLY STRUGGLING.

AT THE END OF THE SHOW YOU DO HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR DESCRIPTIONS OF HOW THEY FEEL ONCE THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH THE MEDICINE.

>> THE IBOGAINE AFFECTS NOT JUST THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE BRAIN, IT ACTUALLY GETS INTO THE NEUROCHEMISTRY, THE NEUROBIOLOGY.

IT'S ACTUALLY FIXING THE BRAIN.

IT'S HEALING THE BRAIN.

SIMILAR TO WHAT STEM CELLS MAY BE DOING AS INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING FOR TREATMENT FOR THEIR KNEES AND THEIR BACKS.

THIS IS DOING THAT FOR THE BRAIN.

AND THE RESEARCHERS AT STANFORD SAID MARCUS, I'LL PUT IT IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE WHERE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS.

THINK OF THIS AS A HEAT-SEEKING MISSILE.

THE IBOGAINE GETS INTO YOUR BRAIN AND FINDS OUT AREAS OF THE BRAIN THAT ARE NOT WORKING CORRECTLY, NOT COMMUNICATING, MAY HAVE LESIONS FROM REPEATED BLOWS OR TBIs.

IT'S GETTING IN THERE AND FIXING THE BRAIN.

THERE WAS A TON OF STUDIES AS BONNI MENTIONED BEFORE AND AFTER THERE MRI IMAGES.

THAT'S WHEN YOU TAKE THE IMAGING THAT DOESN'T LIE AND PAIR THAT WITH THE SYMPTOMS RATINGS SCALES WITH HOW INDIVIDUALS ARE FEELING.

YOU HAVE PSYCHIATRY HAS NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE IN A DRUG.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TOLD.

IT REVERSED BRAIN AGE FOR 30 INDIVIDUALS ON AVERAGE BY A YEAR AND A HALF.

AND THAT'S JUST UNHEARD OF.

>> MARCUS, ALSO I WANT TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT VETERAN IS WATCHING WHAT AT WHAT TIME AND WHETHER THIS INTERVIEW REACHES SOMEBODY WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD SAY TO THEM, WHAT DO YOU SAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

TO TRY TO, I DON'T KNOW, GIVE THEM SOME HOPE.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THEY NEED TO HAVE HOPE.

IF YOU'RE LISTENING, IF YOU'RE WATCHING, YOU NEED TO HAVE HOPE.

YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT I'VE BEEN THERE, DJ'S BEEN THERE, MATTY'S BEEN THERE.

LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS, FRIENDS THAT WE WORKED WITH, WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY WE'RE WORKING ON -- WE'RE WORKING ON IT.

WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO OPEN UP AFFORDABLE ACCESS HERE IN THE U.S.

WE SHOULDN'T BE GOING OVERSEAS FOR TREATMENT, ESPECIALLY FOR A COUNTRY WE LIVE IN AND LOVE AND WE FOUGHT FOR.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY ALSO THERE HAS TO BE ACTION.

YOU HAVE TO WANT TO HEAL.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN BRING YOU TO THE WATER TO DRINK, BUT WE CAN'T MAKE YOU DRINK IT.

SO YOU HAVE TO -- YOU GOT TO FIND THAT FORTITUDE, AND YOU GOT TO FIND THAT BIT TO JUST GET UP, GET OUT THERE, CALL A FRIEND, CHECK ON YOUR FRIENDS, CHECK ON YOUR KIDS, CHECK ON YOUR SPOUSE, MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO HEAL AS A SOCIETY.

WE NEED OUR TRIBE.

WE NEED OUR COMMUNITY.

WE CAN'T DO THIS ALONE.

>> MARCUS CAPONE, BONNI COHEN.

THE FILM IS CALLED "IN WAVES AND WAR."

YOU CAN SEE IT ON NETFLIX NOW.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND FINALLY FOR US, REMEMBERING THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES IN COMBAT.

TODAY IS VETERANS DAY, OR ARMISTICE DAY FOR SOME.

FROM FRANCE TO BRITAIN TO THE U.S., MANY ARE TAKING MOMENTS OF SILENCE, WEARING POPPIES, AND LAYING WREATHS TO REMEMBER MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCE WHO DIED PROTECTING THEIR COUNTRY.

IN MEMORY OF ALL THOSE SOLDIERS, WE TAKE A LOOK BACK WITH CHRISTIANE'S CONVERSATION WITH ACTOR TOM HANKS AT LAST YEAR'S 80th ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY IN NORMANDY, FRANCE.

SHE STARTED BY ASKING HOW HE FELT ABOUT RUSSIA'S PROLONGED WAR IN UKRAINE, WHICH OF COURSE RAGES ON.

>> I NEVER THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE A LAND WAR IN EUROPE IN MY LIFETIME ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE IT HAD PROVEN TO BE SO DISASTROUS FOR ALL OF HUMANITY THE LAST TIME SOMEBODY TRIED THAT.

AND FUNNY HOW OFTEN IT COMES OUT OF THE EGO OF ONE HUMAN BEING.

ONE GUY BACK IN THE 1930s SAYS NO, I'M GOING SOLVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES NOT WORK.

I -- I THINK, LOOK, I'M A LAY HISTORIAN, AND I'M AS OPINIONATED AS ANY KNOTHEAD THAT YOU'RE GOING TO COME ACROSS.

BUT THERE WAS THIS THOUGHT THAT AMERICA, PARTICULARLY AMERICA WAS LAZY, WAS DIVIDED, WAS UNDISCIPLINED, THEY COULDN'T GET ITS ACT TOGETHER, THAT WOULD NEVER BAND TOGETHER IN ORDER JUST TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

BY CHOICE.

AND WHEN I'M HERE, I THINK OF A BUNCH OF KIDS.

IT WAS A YOUNG FORCE THAT CAME HERE.

THEY WERE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN -- IF YOU WERE 25 YEARS OLD, THEY CALLED YOU POPS, OR THEY CALLED YOU THE OLD MAN.

AND THEY WERE -- THEY LEFT ALL OF THE COMFORTS OF A VERY COMFORTABLE AMERICA, A SAFE AMERICA ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OCEAN.

AND THEY PUT THEMSELVES HERE FOR WHAT?

BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND THEY WERE NOT DEFENDING A STATUS QUO.

THEY WERE NOT GAINING TERRITORY.

THEY WERE NOT HERE FOR RICHES.

THEY WERE NOT HERE TO CONQUER ANYTHING.

THEY WERE REALLY HERE IN ORDER TO MEND THE FUTURE, IF I CAN COIN A WORD THAT HAS JUST COME OUT IN A BOOK THAT I READ NOT TOO LONG AGO.

>> CAN I ASK SOMETHING?

ONE MAN IS DOING IT.

VLADIMIR PUTIN.

HE WAS INVITED TEN YEARS AGO, BUT THIS TIME NOT.

DO YOU THINK, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AMERICANS WOULD DO THIS AGAIN, BRITISH WOULD DO IT AGAIN?

I MEAN, WE'RE IN THE FIGHT OF OUR LIVES AGAIN.

>> WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK VERY FAR, I BELIEVE AS EARLY AS 1939 AND 1940 AND BIG PARTS OF 1941, THERE WAS A HUGE VOCAL SECTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THAT SAID NO WAY.

CHARLES LINDBERGH LED THE AMERICA FIRST.

THERE WERE LITERALLY NAZI PARTY RALLIES IN MADISON SQUARE GARDEN IN WHICH ADOLF HITLER AND GEORGE WASHINGTON, THEIR IMAGES WERE UP ON STAGE AT THE SAME TIME.

IT WASN'T UNTIL OF COURSE THAT WE WERE ATTACKED THAT EVERYBODY KIND OF LIKEWISED UP AND REALIZED THAT SOMETHING VERY VENAL WAS GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

YOU CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER WHERE WOULD IT BE RIGHT NOW, AND HAVE I ABSOLUTE 100% FAITH IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE CONCEPT OF WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG.

AND AS SOMETHING AS DEFINITIVE AS WHAT HAPPENED IN EUROPE BACK THEN, I DON'T THINK THERE WOULD BE ANY QUESTION.

THAT IT WOULD TAKE TIME.

IT WOULD NOT BE OVERNIGHT.

IT WOULD BE THOUGHT OUT.

IT WOULD BE I THINK TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL THE LESSONS THAT WERE LEARNED.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T DO IT RIGHT OVER THE LONG COURSE OF TIME.

>> ASK CAN I ASK YOU.

I WALKED OVER THERE.

I LOOKED AT THE BEACH.

IT'S OMAHA BEACH.

THE CLIFFS THAT THOSE BOYS HAD TO SCALE.

YOU DID THAT FILM, "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN."

I KNOW YOU'RE AN ACTOR.

BUT EVERYBODY SAYS IT'S ONE OF THE MOST REALISTIC DEPICTIONS OF WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY.

CAN YOU RECALL WHAT IT WAS LIKE ACTUALLY FILMING THAT AND PUTTING YOURSELVES IN THEIR BOOTS FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME?

>> WELL, OF COURSE, PART OF IT IS GLAMOROUS FUN, YOU KNOW.

BUT AT THE OTHER TIME, AS SOON AS THE CAMERAS STARTED ROLLING AND EVERYTHING STARTED HAPPENING, THERE WAS A TACTILE QUALITY TO THE CONFUSION.

THERE IS A MOMENT WHEN, OF COURSE, AS ACTORS, WE'RE JUST PRETENDING.

BUT THERE COMES A MOMENT WHERE THE REASON WE'RE THERE TO CAPTURE THE TRUTH AS THE FILM ROLLS, AND TO BE COLD, WET, SCARED AND HAVE IT BE AWFULLY NOISY FOR AN AWFUL LONG TIME.

IT'S ALSO OUR JOB AS LAY HISTORIANS, BECAUSE FOR GOOD OR FOR BAD, THAT MOVIE IS A DOCUMENT THAT HAS TO ACCURATELY REFLECT THE TENOR OF THAT DAY, AND I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT WE DID IT.

>> YEAH.

>> AND HEARING IT FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SAID AS CONFUSING AS THAT IS, MULTIPLY THAT BY WE DID NOT HAVE THE SMELL OF CORDITE OR BURNING FLESH OR, YOU KNOW, BLOOD ON THE SAND.

BUT WE DID HAVE SOME VERSION OF THE WHATEVER YOU CAN GET OUT OF A MOTION PICTURE.

I THINK WE CAPTURED IT.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO."

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO."

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