The Veterans Turning to Psychedelic Therapy to Heal War Trauma

>>> NOW SINCE 2001, MORE THAN 140,000 AMERICAN VETERANS AND ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIERS HAVE TAKEN THEIR OWN LIVES.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE ORGANIZATION STOP SOLDIER SUICIDE.

MANY WHO SERVED ABROAD RETURN HOME TRAUMATIZED WITH LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

NOW A NEW DOCUMENTARY "IN WAVES AND WAR" FOLLOWS THOSE WHO SOUGHT OUT AN UNCONVENTIONAL ALTERNATIVE IN MEXICO IN HOPES OF HEALING.

>> HE WAS DOING ALL THE THINGS HE WAS TOLD TO DO, AND HE WAS ACTUALLY GETTING WORSE.

I GOT HIS MEDICAL RECORDS.

I COMPLETELY CHANGED MY APPROACH.

PSYCHEDELIC MEDICINES PROVED TO BE EFFECTIVE.

BUT BOTH ARE ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO MARCUS WOULD HAVE TO TRAVEL TO MEXICO.

>> AND DIRECTOR BONNI COHEN AND FORMER NAVY S.E.A.L.

MARCUS CAPONE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN IN THIS CONVERSATION.

>> PAULA, THANKS.

BONNI COHEN, MARCUS CAPONE, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR RECENT FILM THAT'S NOW VISIBLE ON NETFLIXS EVERYWHERE IS A REALLY FASCINATING JOURNEY.

MARCUS, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

IT IS A DOCUMENTARY CALLED "IN WAVES AND WAR," AND IT'S ABOUT VETERANS GOING TO MEXICO TO TRY A PSYCHEDELIC TREATMENT TO TRY TO OVERCOME SOME OF THE INTENSE PTSD AND TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURIES.

AND I GUESS -- I GUESS I JUST WANT TO START BY ASKING WHY DID YOU TRY THIS TREATMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> YEAH, I THINK -- I THINK THE MOVIE IS A LOT BROADER THAN THAT.

I MEAN, THIS IS A VERY HUMAN -- IT'S A HUMAN TOUCH.

IT'S A HUMAN ELEMENT.

AND THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT.

IT FOLLOWS THREE NAVY S.E.A.L.s, TWO INDIVIDUALS I STARTED WITH FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

AS A NATION WE FOUGHT 20 YEARS OF SUSTAINED COMBAT.

WE'VE NEVER SEEN THAT IN HISTORY.

IT'S UNPRECEDENTED.

AND INDIVIDUALS COMING HOME ARE REALLY INTRODUCED TO THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

AND WHETHER THAT'S MILITARY MEDICINE OR V.A.

HEALTH CARE WHEN SOMEONE RETIRES OR SEPARATES OR EVEN PRIVATE SECTOR CARE.

GRANTED, THERE ARE MANY INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE THAT WANT TO HELP.

THE PROBLEM IS THE SYSTEM IS A BIT OLD AND MANY OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, ABOUT 50%, INCLUDING MYSELF, AND I WAS ONE THAT COMES BACK, WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED TREATMENT RESISTANT MENTAL HEALTH.

MEANING THE MEDICINES, THE DRUGS, THE ANTIDEPRESSANTS, THE SSRIs, THE SNRIs, THE TRADITIONAL TALK THERAPY, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK FOR HALF OF THE SITUATION.

SO WHAT DO WE DO?

WE NEED TO POUR MONEY INTO RESEARCH AND WE NEED TO HAVE AFFORDABLE ACCESS IN THE U.S.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING OUTSIDE THE U.S.

TO PLACES WHERE THESE TREATMENTS ARE LEGAL AND UNREGULATED.

FOR ME, SEVEN YEARS OF FAILED ANTIDEPRESSANT TALK THERAPY, I HAD TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY TO SEEK OUT THE CARE THAT REALLY AFFORDED ME WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY.

>> BONNI, WHAT'S FASCINATING TO ME, AS MARCUS MENTIONED, THIS IS SUCH A SORT OF HUMAN STORY.

HOW DID YOU FIGURE OUT A WAY TO JUST LET THESE PEOPLE BE VULNERABLE IN FRONT OF YOU ON CAMERA, WHICH SEEMS COMPLETELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT HAS BEEN THEIR WINNING FORMULA IN THEIR LIVES WHICH I'M NOT GOING TALK ABOUT WHAT I DO.

>> I MEAN, I WOULD ARGUE THIS IS A WINNING FORMULA.

TRYING TO HEROISM AND -- HEROISM IN VULNERABILITY IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

AND THIS IS THEIR NEXT MISSION, RIGHT.

AND THEY'RE THERE FOR EACH OTHER, AND THEY'RE THERE TO GET WELL.

AND FIND HEALING BOTH FOR THEMSELVES AS INDIVIDUALS AND ALSO FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

JUST TO BE COMPLETELY FRANK ABOUT IT, WE WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN ANY OF THIS WITHOUT MARCUS AND AMBER BASICALLY CREATING AN ENTRYWAY FOR US TO THEIR COMMUNITY.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT IS TRAINED TO BE LOW-KEY, SECRETIVE, NOT PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE LIVES.

AND IT TOOK YEARS OF TRUST WITH THE GUIDANCE OF MARCUS AND AMBER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

AND LIKE WITH ANY FILM, IF YOU TAKE TIME AND CARE AND CREATE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, THE VULNERABILITY CAN EMERGE.

AND THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT WANTS TO HELP EACH OTHER.

>> MARCUS, YOU SERVED SEVERAL TOURS IN AFGHANISTAN.

YOU RETIRED FROM THE MILITARY IN 2013.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT IF YOU CAN ABOUT THE COMBAT SITUATIONS, WHAT CAUSED THE PTSD.

WHAT CAUSED YOU TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE YOU WERE SO HEAVILY MEDICATED THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING THAT YOU MAYBE HAD REACHED YOUR WIT'S END?

>> YEAH.

SO MULTIPLE TOURS BOTH TO AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ, '303 TO ROUGHLY 2010, BACK AND FORTH.

I JUST THINK THE CULMINATION OF YEARS OF COMBAT, YEARS OF CONSTANTLY YOU'RE ON THAT BULLET TRAIN, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY DEPLOYING, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY AWAY 300 DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR.

NOW YOU MIX IN WHICH SO MUCH RESEARCH IS COMING OUT WITH TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY.

WE'LL CALL IT MILD TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY.

THESE ARE INJURIES TO THE BRAIN THAT ARE SUBCONCUSSIVE.

THESE ARE THE ONES NOT BEING KNOCKED OUT.

GRANTED THE ONES KNOCKED OUT FROM EXPLOSION, THOSE ARE CONCUSSIVE BLOWS.

THESE ARE SUBCONCUSSIVE.

THERE IS RESEARCH OPERATOR SYNDROME.

VERY SIMILAR SYMPTOMS AS PTSD.

I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

BECAUSE THE TERM PTSD IS ALSO STIGMATIZED.

BUT REALLY IT'S JUST A HOST OF SYMPTOMS THEY HAVE IN DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, POTENTIALLY SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER TO NUMB THOSE THINGS.

IT'S THE CULMINATION OF MAYBE SOME CHILDHOOD TRAUMA, FINDING OUT.

THAT'S VERY PREVALENT.

OF COURSE WARTIME TRAUMA, YEARS OF DEPLOYMENTS, YEARS OF BURYING YOUR FRIENDS.

THEN YOU LEAVE YOUR FAMILY.

YOU TRANSITION INTO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME -- TO ME, IT'S THE EASY WAY TO EXPLAIN.

IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME PASSION AND PURPOSE AND MISSION THAT YOU HAD FOR SO LONG.

SO YOU THROW ALL THAT TOGETHER, AND IT'S KIND OF A CULMINATION FOR DISASTER.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING THROUGH.

>> BEFORE WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IBOGAINE, WHILE INITIAL RESEARCH SHOWS SOME POSITIVE RESULTS, THE NAVY HAS A ZERO TOLERANCE FOR DRUG ABUSE AND S.E.A.L.s SHOULD SEEK CARE THROUGH APPROVED MEDICAL CHANNELS.

IF THAT IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT AND THE NAVY SEES THIS, MARCUS, I WANT YOU TO TELL A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IS THIS DRUG?

WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY GOING TO THE BRAIN OR WHAT IT IS ALLOWING THE BRYNN TO DO ON ITS OWN?

>> SURE.

SO AS A NONMEDICAL EXPERT, I DON'T HAVE MD OR Ph.D AFTER MY NAME, BUT I BOGAINE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S.

>> TRACKED FROM A ROOT GROWN IN WEST AFRICA.

TRIBES HAVE BEEN USING IT THERE FOR MANY YEARS FOR MENTAL HEALTH AND DETOXIFICATION AND OTHER SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

CONSCIOUSNESS ENHANCEMENT.

IBOGAINE IS THE MOST PREVALENT IN IBOGA.

THEY EXTRACT THE SINGLE MOLECULE AND PUTS YOU ON A SIX TO EIGHT-HOUR VERY INTENSE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE.

NOT YOUR TYPICAL PSYCHEDELICS LIKE LSD OR PSILOCYBIN WHERE EVERYTHING IS KIND OF A LITTLE WEIRD.

IBOGAINE, IT'S AN EXTREMELY MEDICALIZED TREATMENT.

SO YOU'RE IN A BED.

YOU DO A TON OF BLOOD WORK.

YOU DO A EKG.

YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN YOUR SYSTEM, AS BONNI MENTIONED.

THERE ARE CONTRAINDICATIONS.

YOU'RE CONSTANTLY MONITORED BY NURSE AND BY DOCTORS.

WHAT IT DOES IS IT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE THAT MAY BE AFFECTING YOU ON YOUR DAY TO DAY FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

SO FOR INSTANCE, AND THIS ONE IS EASY, I WAS JUDGING MY FAMILY, REALLY DIFFICULT.

LIKE I WOULD JUDGE AMBER, I WOULD JUDGE THE KIDS, WHY DO YOU DO THIS, WHY DO YOU DO THAT?

DURING MY IBOGAINE JOURNEY, I HAD A PERSPECTIVE SHIFT.

I FELT WHAT IT WAS LIKE BEING JUDGED BY MY FATHER.

AND IT HURT.

AND WHEN YOU'RE IN THE EXPERIENCE, YOU ACTUALLY FEEL IT.

YOU ACTUALLY -- DJ TALKS ABOUT I FELT THE SWEAT ON MY SHIRT.

YOU'RE IN THE MOMENT.

AND I FELT HOW HORRIBLE IT IS TO BE JUDGED LIKE THAT.

AND THEN I SAW MYSELF JUDGING MY FAMILY.

YOU KNOW WHAT I SAID?

I WILL NEVER JUDGE THEM AGAIN.

AND SO JUST THINK OF HOW MANY YEARS OF THERAPY THAT CAN TAKE TO CHANGE AN INDIVIDUAL WHERE THAT HAPPENS LITERALLY OVERNIGHT.

AND THAT STORY IS REPLICATED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TIMES OVER.

BUT IT'S JUST A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY DO.

>> BONNI, YOU CHOSE A VERY INTERESTING VEHICLE TO HELP THE VIEWER UNDERSTAND WHAT MARCUS OR THE OTHER VETERANS.

TELL US ABOUT HOW YOU CHOSE TO -- HOW YOU VISUALIZED AND DESIGNED WHAT IS POSSIBLY HAPPENING IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S BRAIN AND SHARING THAT WITH THE AUDIENCE ON NETFLIX.

>> SURE.

WELL, MARCUS TALKED ABOUT IT.

THE PERSPECTIVE SHIFT THAT HAPPENS IN THE IBOGAINE IN THE MEDICINE WHERE AS HE DESCRIBED, YOU'RE NOT ONLY GOING THROUGH A LIFE REVIEW, BUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SHAPE SHIFT INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S POINT OF VIEW AND WATCH THE SCENE FROM ANOTHER ANGLE.

THAT LENDS ITSELF TO AN ANIMATED VISUAL EXPERIENCE.

>> I WAS ABLE TO SEE THESE DIFFICULT MOMENTS FROM MY LIFE FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE.

AND IT MADE ME REALIZE THAT NONE OF THIS WAS MY FAULT.

>> THE WEIGHT WAS GETTING LIFTED OFF.

>> IN MARCUS' EXPERIENCE, HE DESCRIBES SEEING A PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS LIFE GOING BY LIKE A DECK OF CARDS.

I MEAN, FOR US AS VISUAL STORYTELLERS, BEING ABLE TO USE THAT IMAGERY AND TRANSLATE THAT INTO ANIMATION FELT LIKE JUST THE WAY TO GO BECAUSE A PHOTOREALISTIC APPROACH WOULD BE KIND OF CRAZY.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT?

WHERE IF YOU CAN BE IN A MORE ETHEREAL, ANIMATED SPACE AND RECOGNIZE THOSE DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHS AND ELEMENTS AND STORYTELLING WHILE ALSO HAVING THE PERSPECTIVE SHIFTS VISUALLY, WE SAW THAT THAT COULD SORT OF CREATE A PSEUDO EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN THE IBOGAINE AND WHAT THESE GUYS MIGHT BE SEEING.

>> THE MEDICINE TAKES YOU RIGHT TO THE CREST AND YOU FALL OFF.

>> YOU GET INTO THIS LINE OF WORK BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE IT'S WHO WE ARE.

>> WHAT YOU REALLY DO IN THE FILM IS POINT OUT HOW CRUCIAL AND IMPORTANT THE FAMILY WAS IS AROUND THEM, AND THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS INDIVIDUAL AND WHAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES IT DESTROYS FAMILIES.

SOMETIMES IT'S JUST THE CHALLENGES THAT THEY QUIETLY LIVE WITH.

>> YEAH.

WE REALLY TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT THE FAMILIES IN THE FILM.

CADEN, MARCUS, AMBER'S SON WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FILM AND ALSO SHOW HIS VULNERABILITY WHICH IN MY MIND IS EQUALLY, AS YOU POINT OUT AS VALID AND INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER AS THE VETERANS, THE SERVICE PEOPLE, THE MILITARY COMING HOME.

AND I JUST I THINK WHAT WE REALLY TRIED TO DO WITH THE FILM IS SHOW HOW THE WIVES -- MARCUS TALKED ABOUT AMBER BEING HIS ROCK AND HIS REASON FOR SURVIVAL.

THAT'S REALLY TRUE, AND WE SAW THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH THE WIVES WHO WE SPOKE TO WHEN THEY WERE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, THEIR HUSBANDS WHO THEY LOVED, WHO THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY RECOGNIZED COME HOME REALLY ACTING IN SEEMING LIKE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

AND THEY DIDN'T -- THEY DIDN'T QUITE KNOW WHAT TO DO.

AND YOU SORT OF LIVE IN THE SHAME OF THAT, AND THE QUIET OF THAT THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE YOU CAN TALK TO PEOPLE FREELY AND TRY AND GET THE HELP THAT'S NEEDED.

AND THERE IS A PARTICULAR FORMULA IN THIS COUNTRY FOR WHAT THAT HELP SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

AND IT WASN'T THE RIGHT HELP.

AND THESE WOMEN YOU SEE IN THE FILM, YOU SEE AMBER, AND THEN YOU SEE PATSY SHIPLEY, DJ'S WIFE REACH OUT TO AMBER TO SEEK HELP FOR HER HUSBAND.

AND THEY ARE TENACIOUS.

THEY GO AFTER THESE REMEDIES AND THESE SOLUTIONS, AND THEY WILL TRY ANYTHING.

AND IT WORKS FOR THEM, AND THEY'RE WILLING TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, GO TO THE LAST STOP ON THE TRAIN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR FAMILY CAN COME BACK TO HEALTH.

SO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HEROINS HEROIN HEROINES AND HEROES YOU LOOK AT THE WIVES.

>> FOUR TIMES AS MANY SERVICE MEMBERS AND VETERANS HAVE DIED BY SUICIDE THAN HAVE BEEN KILLED IN COMBAT.

THAT IS JUST AN ASTOUNDING NUMBER.

WHAT TYPES OF TREATMENTS WERE THEY TRYING, ASSUMING NOT ALL OF THEM HAD THE SAME OUTCOMES, NOT ALL OF THEM CHOSE TO TRY THIS TREATMENT IN MEXICO.

>> WE'VE LOST NOW OVER 140,000 VETERANS, ACTIVE DUTY JUST TO -- BY THEIR OWN HAND, DEATH BY SUICIDE.

AND IT'S HEART WRENCHING TO THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT WE FIGHT THESE WARS, WE DO IT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, WE DO IT FOR OUR COUNTRY.

WE DO IT FOR OURSELVES.

AND THEN WE COME HOME AND FIGHT THIS OTHER BATTLE, AND WE'RE LOSING SO MANY MORE INDIVIDUALS TO SUICIDE THAN WE DID ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

THERE IS JUST SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

THERE IS SOMETHING -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT BROKEN, BECAUSE, AGAIN, WHEN YOU GO DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, NO MATTER WHERE WE'RE AT, THE V.A., THE MILITARY MEDICAL SYSTEM, PRIVATE CARE, EVERYBODY WANTS TO HELP.

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE THE TOOLS RIGHT NOW TO DO THAT.

AND TO GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE STANDARD TREATMENT OF CARE FOR FOLKS COMING BACK THAT ARE LABELED AS HAVING PTSD OR SYMPTOMS OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY, IT'S A BAG OF PILLS.

IT'S ANTIDEPRESSANTS.

IT'S SSRIs.

IT'S SNRIs.

IT'S MOOD STABILIZERS.

THE PROBLEM IF INDIVIDUALS DON'T RESPOND TO THOSE, THEY UP THEIR DOSE OR THEY CHANGE THEIR MEDICATION.

AND THEN INDIVIDUALS START HAVING OTHER SYMPTOMS.

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CONSTRAIN.

SO THEY'VE GIVEN DRUGS LIKE NEW VIGIL AND PROVIGIL.

THESE THINGS GAVE ME INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE MIGRAINE HEADACHES.

SOME FOLKS ARE PRESCRIBED ED D ADDERALL.

NOW THEY CAN'T SLEEP.

THEY'RE PRESCRIBED AMBIEN AND OTHER SLEEP DRUGS TO GO TO BED.

>> BONNI, DID YOU NOTICE A CHANGE IN THE PEOPLE WHO WENT THROUGH THIS TREATMENT?

AND ALSO, YOU HAVE A SECTION IN HERE WITH A RESEARCHER AT STANFORD WHO IS TRYING A VERY CLINICAL WAY TO FOLLOW THE OUTCOMES OF THIS.

WHERE ARE WE IN UNDERSTANDING WHETHER THIS TREATMENT IS PRODUCING CHANGES?

>> IT'S NOT ONE AND DONE.

IT CAN'T BE.

THAT WOULD BE A CRAZY CONCEPT.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SAW INCREDIBLE CHANGES IN MATTY.

HE WANTED TO TALK.

HE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE SAW AND WHAT HE EXPERIENCED.

AND HOW HE COULD START TO LET GO OF THE FEAR THAT HAD BEEN GRIPPING HIM FROM A VERY, VERY EARLY AGE.

AND THAT WAS -- AND THE LIGHT THAT COMES BACK ON AND A LOT OF THE GUYS TALK ABOUT THIS LIGHT THAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IN THEIR EYES SINCE THEY WERE SMALLER CHILDREN.

ET CETERA.

AND THEN WE REALLY SAW SOME INTERESTING, SIGNIFICANT, AS YOU POINT OUT WITH THE STANFORD STUDY CLINICAL CHANGE.

BECAUSE THE STANFORD RESEARCHERS WERE DOING THESE INTERVIEWS WITH THE GUYS RIGHT BEFORE THEY WENT DOWN TO MEXICO, AND THEN RIGHT WHEN THEY CAME BACK.

AND OF COURSE THEY INTERVIEW THEM.

THEY DO PSYCHOLOGICAL MEASURES.

THEY DO INTERVIEWS.

THEY DO ALL OF THIS WORK WITH THEM.

RIGHT AFTER THEY COME BACK FROM MEXICO, AND ALSO 30 DAYS AFTER THAT.

AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE FILM IS THE FILM ACTUALLY OPENS WITH THESE GUYS GOING DOWN TO MEXICO, BEING SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF THE NFORD RESEARCHERS REALLY STRUGGLING.

AT THE END OF THE SHOW YOU DO HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR DESCRIPTIONS OF HOW THEY FEEL ONCE THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH THE MEDICINE.

>> THE IBOGAINE AFFECTS NOT JUST THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE BRAIN, IT ACTUALLY GETS INTO THE NEUROCHEMISTRY, THE NEUROBIOLOGY.

IT'S ACTUALLY FIXING THE BRAIN.

IT'S HEALING THE BRAIN.

SIMILAR TO WHAT STEM CELLS MAY BE DOING AS INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING FOR TREATMENT FOR THEIR KNEES AND THEIR BACKS.

THIS IS DOING THAT FOR THE BRAIN.

AND THE RESEARCHERS AT STANFORD SAID MARCUS, I'LL PUT IT IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE WHERE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS.

THINK OF THIS AS A HEAT-SEEKING MISSILE.

THE IBOGAINE GETS INTO YOUR BRAIN AND FINDS OUT AREAS OF THE BRAIN THAT ARE NOT WORKING CORRECTLY, NOT COMMUNICATING, MAY HAVE LESIONS FROM REPEATED BLOWS OR TBIs.

IT'S GETTING IN THERE AND FIXING THE BRAIN.

THERE WAS A TON OF STUDIES AS BONNI MENTIONED BEFORE AND AFTER THERE MRI IMAGES.

THAT'S WHEN YOU TAKE THE IMAGING THAT DOESN'T LIE AND PAIR THAT WITH THE SYMPTOMS RATINGS SCALES WITH HOW INDIVIDUALS ARE FEELING.

YOU HAVE PSYCHIATRY HAS NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE IN A DRUG.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TOLD.

IT REVERSED BRAIN AGE FOR 30 INDIVIDUALS ON AVERAGE BY A YEAR AND A HALF.

AND THAT'S JUST UNHEARD OF.

>> MARCUS, ALSO I WANT TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT VETERAN IS WATCHING WHAT AT WHAT TIME AND WHETHER THIS INTERVIEW REACHES SOMEBODY WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD SAY TO THEM, WHAT DO YOU SAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

TO TRY TO, I DON'T KNOW, GIVE THEM SOME HOPE.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THEY NEED TO HAVE HOPE.

IF YOU'RE LISTENING, IF YOU'RE WATCHING, YOU NEED TO HAVE HOPE.

YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT I'VE BEEN THERE, DJ'S BEEN THERE, MATTY'S BEEN THERE.

LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS, FRIENDS THAT WE WORKED WITH, WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY WE'RE WORKING ON -- WE'RE WORKING ON IT.

WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO OPEN UP AFFORDABLE ACCESS HERE IN THE U.S.

WE SHOULDN'T BE GOING OVERSEAS FOR TREATMENT, ESPECIALLY FOR A COUNTRY WE LIVE IN AND LOVE AND WE FOUGHT FOR.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY ALSO THERE HAS TO BE ACTION.

YOU HAVE TO WANT TO HEAL.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN BRING YOU TO THE WATER TO DRINK, BUT WE CAN'T MAKE YOU DRINK IT.

SO YOU HAVE TO -- YOU GOT TO FIND THAT FORTITUDE, AND YOU GOT TO FIND THAT BIT TO JUST GET UP, GET OUT THERE, CALL A FRIEND, CHECK ON YOUR FRIENDS, CHECK ON YOUR KIDS, CHECK ON YOUR SPOUSE, MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO HEAL AS A SOCIETY.

WE NEED OUR TRIBE.

WE NEED OUR COMMUNITY.

WE CAN'T DO THIS ALONE.

>> MARCUS CAPONE, BONNI COHEN.

THE FILM IS CALLED "IN WAVES AND WAR."

YOU CAN SEE IT ON NETFLIX NOW.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.