September 23, 2026

>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & CO.

, HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WHAT WE SEE IS OF COURSE MORE ATTACKS, TERROR ATTACKS , THESE KIND OF HYBRID ATTACKS.

>> NATO ON ALERT AMID FEARS PUTIN IS PLANNING TO TEST HIS RESULT.

I ASK ESTONIA'S FORMER MINISTER HOW THEY PLAN TO PROTECT THE BORDER.

AND I SPEAK TO THE MAN TASKED WITH DELIVERING LIFE-SAVING AID TO THOSE IN NEED, THE UN RELIEF CHIEF, TOM FLETCHER.

>> FROM NEVER AGAIN, TO A CERTAIN FAR RIGHT, IS GERMANY INCREASINGLY DETACHED FROM ITS PAINFUL PAST?

> >> AMANPOUR & CO.

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THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, AT THE UNITED NATIONS.

THE FAULTLINES IN OUR WORLD ARE WIDENING, CRACKS HAVE BECOME TANGENT, THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF THE DEPARTING UN SECRETARY-GENERAL ANTONIO GUTIERREZ, TO THE LEADERS FILLING THE CORRIDORS AS THEY ATTEMPT TO FACE UP TO THE WORLD'S MANY CHALLENGES INCLUDING THE INCREASINGLY DIRE THREAT POSED BY VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RUSSIA.

FEARS HAVE BEEN MOUNTING THAT HE INTENDS TO PUSH FURTHER INTO EUROPE TO TEST NATO'S UNITY AND TO FOMENT CHAOS AND FEAR FROM POLAND, WE ALL HAVE DIFFICULT WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD OF US TO FRANCE WHERE THEY HOLD AN EMERGENCY MEETING, EUROPE HAS BEEN ON EDGE NOW FOR OVER A WEEK, KYIV CAME UNDER HEAVY RUSSIAN BOMBARDMENT TODAY AS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WAS ADDRESSING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HERE.

BUT TODAY, THE U. S. DECIDED TO INVITE PUTIN IN FROM THE COLD, HERE IS U. S. SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO SPEAKING EARLIER.

>> IF YOU ONLY NEED THE PEOPLE YOU AGREE WITH THOSE ARE VERY NICE MEETINGS BUT NOTHING HAPPENS.

YOU HAVE TO MEET WITH THE PEOPLE YOU DISAGREE WITH OR MIGHT HAVE ISSUES WITH, SO, WE'VE INVITED PRESIDENT PUTIN TO THE G 20 AND WE THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM NOT TO ENGAGE JUST WITH THE PRESIDENT BUT OTHER WORLD LEADERS.

WE HOPE IT'S AN INVITATION HE WILL ACCEPT.

IF THERE'S ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO MEET AND THERE'S A PURPOSE BEHIND THE MEETING, THAT WOULD BE GOOD.

AND THEY'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS ON THE PHONE, I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER BUT SINCE THE PRESIDENT HAS COME INTO OFFICE I THINK AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES THEY'VE SPOKEN, SO, YEAH, WE WILL REMAIN OPEN TO ENGAGING OBVIOUSLY THE IDEAL WOULD BE A MEETING IN WHICH THERE WOULD BE A RESULT AND THAT MEANS THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF WORK THAT GOES INTO IT BEFOREHAND BUT MAYBE PRESIDENT PUTIN ATTENDS THE G 20 IN DECEMBER AND THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO INTERACT AND TALK.

>> SO, THE COUNTRIES MOST AT RISK FROM PUTIN'S POSTURING ARE THE BALTIC STATES, LATVIA, ESTONIA, WHICH BORDER RUSSIA AND HAVE WARNED OF THE THREAT FROM PUTIN AND HIS WAR ON UKRAINE.

IS AN ATTACK EMINENT OR IS ALL OF THIS CONVERSATION OVERBLOWN?

HOW DO WESTERN LEADERS NAVIGATE THIS DANGEROUS MOMENT.

I ASKED ESTONIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER WHEN HE JOINED ME HERE EARLIER.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THERE IS A LOT OF TALK IN THE AIR ABOUT EMINENT WAR IN EUROPE, WE'VE HAD SOME INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE QUOTED IN THE UK SAYING IT COULD BE MONTHS, NOT YEARS THAT RUSSIA TRY SOMETHING AND A LOT OF IT IS CENTERING AROUND ESTONIA OR THE BALTICS WHICH IS THE FRONT LINE STATE.

HOW DO YOU ANALYZE THIS THREAT RIGHT NOW?

>> RUSSIA IS VERY DANGEROUS AND WE HOPE THAT THE WAR WILL BE FINISHED SOON IN A GOOD WAY IN THE END OF WAR IS ALWAYS DANGEROUS BECAUSE PUTIN IS NOT DOING WELL BUT WE ARE LIVING ON THE BORDER AND WE'VE BEEN LIVING HERE A LONG, LONG TIME.

WE SEE THAT INTELLIGENCE IS FOLLOWING CLOSELY AND WE DON'T SEE ANY MOMENTS ON THE MILITARY LEVEL, TROOPS, RELOCATION, OR ADDITIONAL TROOPS, SO MY MESSAGES, LET'S HOLD OUT.

PUTIN IS PLAYING WITH OUR FEARS.

WHAT WE SEE IS MORE ATTACKS, FEDERAL ATTACKS, THIS KIND OF HYBRID ATTACKS AND PUTIN IS TARGETING NOT THE BALTIC STATES, WE ARE IMMUNE, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DIVIDE OUR SOCIETIES AND WE HAVE NO FEAR OF RUSSIA BECAUSE WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO DO BUT HE'S PLAYING WITH OUR UNITY IN THE WESTERN PART OF DEMOCRACY, NEW GERMANY, MANY OTHER THINGS.

HE IS TRYING TO DIVIDE US AND TRY TO PUT US IN FEAR OF ESCALATION.

>> TO BE FAIR, IT WAS LITHUANIA THAT EXPERIENCED AN INCURSION OF DRONES INTO THE AIRSPACE THAT NATO JETS TOOK DOWN NOT LONG AGO SO YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE.

>> WE ARE IMMUNE AS A SOCIETY.

THERE'S NO PANIC.

PUTIN WANTS TO CREATE PANIC, SO DRONES, OKAY, WE HAVE DIFFERENT ATTACKS IN THE REGION, SO, BUT THIS IS A NEW NORMALITY, WE NEED TO RESPOND.

FULL-SCALE MILITARY INVASION OR NO WAR IS COMING, NOT NOW, MAYBE IN THE FUTURE.

NOW, THERE ARE TESTS, SO WE NEED TO BE STRONG, CALM, >> THAT IS THE POINT, SO, YOU ADMIT THAT HE IS TESTING .

YOU SEE NO MOVEMENT, WHAT ABOUT THE RIVER, THERE WAS TALK CERTAINLY BY THE FSB THAT THEY ARE DOING A CONTROL AND NOT LETTING ANYBODY THERE.

>> THEY ARE CONSTRUCTING SOME 200 METERS OF THE COASTLINE.

IT'S A NORMAL THING.

>> SO THERE'S NOT A PANIC?

>> THERE'S THE GREEN MAN.

>> AGREEMENT?

>> YES.

>> EVERYBODY WAS SAYING SIMILAR THINGS BEFORE THE INVASION OF UKRAINE AND I'M NOT TRYING TO SO PANIC BUT THERE WAS NOT MUCH MOVEMENT ON THE BORDER UNTIL THERE WAS MOVEMENT.

>> IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

LOTS OF TROOPS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE UKRAINE BORDER ALREADY, JUST GIVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, I WAS THE DEFENSE MINISTER IN 2016, WE SAW THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR BORDER IN RUSSIA, 120,000 TROOPS READY TO MOVE WITHIN 48 HOURS.

WE HAVE NO NATO TROOPS, NO FINLAND, SWEDEN, NO DEFENSE PLANS FOR NATO IF RUSSIA IS COMING, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.

>> SO YOU FEEL SECURE ABOUT THAT.

YOU MENTIONED NATO TROOPS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A ROTATION, TRUMP'S HAS PULLED TROOPS OUT AND THERE'S SOME TRIPS GOING BACK.

BIG PICTURE, DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH U. S. AND OTHER NATIVE --NATO TROOPS PER THE THREAT LEVEL SINCE THE INVASION OF UKRAINE IN ESTONIA?

>> THE BALTIC SEA, WE HAVE A PERMANENT LOCATION TO THE BALTIC STATES AND POLAND.

SO U. S. IS NOT LIKE THE PART OF THE PLANS THAT WE HAVE COME UP , THEY REVIEW THE TROOPS IN THE EASTERN PLANK AND WE JUST GOT CONFIRMATION FROM THE USI THAT WE HAVE A NEW ROTATION COMING INTO ESTONIA.

SO, IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE STRATEGIC MEASURES TO PUTIN.

>> DO YOU GET THE IMPRESSION BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF TALK THAT COMES FROM THE UNITED STATES, AS YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ARTICLE 5, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IF ANY, WE WILL PULL TROOPS OUT, PENTAGON SAYS ONE THING, THE REST OF THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS SOMETHING ELSE.

DO YOU HAVE A STRAIGHT IDEA OF WHAT THE DEFENSIVE POSTURE IS, YOUR SECURITY POSTURE VIS-À-VIS NATO INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES?

>> WE DO NOW.

THE STRATEGIC MESSAGES , THE LONG-LASTING UNDERSTANDING, THERE'S TENSIONS BETWEEN EUROPE, GETTING THIS CLEAR PICTURE.

THIS MEANS THAT PUTIN MAY DO THIS MISCALCULATION BUT NOW IT'S CLEAR, THE U. S. IS THERE AND ALSO ARTICLE 5, TRUMP HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

THE LAST SUMMIT SHOW THAT AS WELL.

>> YOU ARE GIVING US A CALMED DOWN ADVICE.

BUT, BUT THE POLISH PRIME MINISTER IS DOING SLIGHTLY THE OPPOSITE, THE FRENCH PRESIDENT CONVENES ALL THEIR SERVICES, AND INTELLIGENCE TO TRY TO TALK ABOUT AN IMMINENT THREAT ARE YOU ALL ON THE SAME PAGE?

>> WE LIVED THERE, BUT MY MESSAGE IS NOT LET'S DO NOTHING.

WE NEED TO PREPARE.

THIS WAR WILL BE FINISHED -- >> WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

THERE'S NO INKLING.

>> ONE DAY.

ONE DAY.

AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT HOW IT WILL BE FINISHED.

WHAT KIND OF EUROPEAN ARCHITECTURE WILL WE SEE, WHAT KIND OF SECURITY GUARANTEES , BUT THE OTHER SIDE AS WELL.

THIS IS SO IMPORTANT, SO THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO INCREASE DEFENSE SPENDING, SO I'M NOT SAYING CALM DOWN DON'T DO NOTHING BUT DON'T PANIC.

>> WE DON'T SEE ANY NEGOTIATION IS GOING ANYWHERE.

ON THE ONE HAND PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID IT WILL HAPPEN, EVEN PRESIDENT ZIELINSKI SAID WE ARE TALKING AND I'M HERE AND WE ARE TALKING.

BUT THERE'S NO THERE THERE.

THERE'S NO MEAT ON THE PIECE OF THE NEGOTIATING BONES.

MEANWHILE PRESIDENT PUTIN AND HIS TEAM ARE CONSTANTLY SAYING WELL, THE LATEST WAS, NEGOTIATIONS ARE ON HOLD FOR THE MOMENT.

>> WE'VE HAD MORE THAN A YEAR OF TALKS.

PUTIN JUST USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO PUT MORE PRESSURE ON.

I WAS IN UKRAINE A WEEK AGO AND THE REALITY IS THERE'S -- >> WAS THAT WHEN THEY SENT DRONES IN?

SO YOU WERE THERE.

>> PRESIDENT ZIELINSKI CAME BACK FROM CANADA SO I HAD MEETINGS IN THE MORNING.

SO I MISSED THE TRAIN.

BUT THE CASE IS THAT THIS WINTER IT WILL BE HARD, NO SIGNS THAT PUTIN WILL HAVE ANY KIND OF MEANINGFUL TALKS.

WE NEED TO PUT MORE PRESSURE ON RUSSIA, NEXT JANUARY, IT WILL BE THE HARDEST AND DARKEST PORT --PART OF THE WAR.

SO WE NEED TO FOCUS ON UKRAINE AND THEIR CAPABILITIES.

>> WHERE ARE THEY?

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND TO BE FAIR, YOU AND ALL YOUR PARTNERS HAVE BEEN SAYING, WE HAVE TO PUT MORE PRESSURE ON PUTIN, AND THE PRESSURE GETS RATIONED UP.

AND THE WORST IS THERE IS A LACK OF THESE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DEFENSIVE MISSILES, THEY ARE RUNNING OUT.

>> IT'S CRITICAL.

IT'S CRITICAL.

WE NEED TO FIND SOMEWHERE, WE HAVE STOCKS IN THE WORLD, MONEY IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR EUROPE BUT UKRAINE NEED SUPPORT FINANCIALLY TO INCREASE THE CAPABILITIES TO RUSSIA.

PUTIN IS NOT SO SECURE.

AND AFTER THE ELECTIONS, HE'S LOSING CLOSE TO 40,000 MEN PER MONTH.

>> DO YOU FEAR OR DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A MOBILIZATION?

>> HE NEEDS TO HAVE MANPOWER, MAYBE NOT FULL-SCALE BECAUSE IT INCREASES TENSIONS IN RUSSIAN SOCIETY.

BUT WHAT WE SEE IS MORE CONCERNED, NOBODY AROUND PUTIN AND WE SEE CLOSER TO ESTONIA, SO THIS IS A GOOD SIGN.

>> SO WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT AND WHO IS HE LISTENING TO?

>> NOBODY LEFT FROM RETIREMENT.

THIS IS ABOUT HOW TO SURVIVE.

SO WE NEED TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND PUT MORE PRESSURE ON RUSSIA .

>> GOING BACK TO THE ISSUE OF NATO AND THE UNITED STATES HAVING YOUR BACK.

THIS WEEK BELARUS, RUSHES CLOSEST MILITARY ALLY CONDUCTED LARGE-SCALE EXERCISES IN THAT FAMOUS GAP THAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE.

THE FORMER ADVISOR TO MANY ADMINISTRATIONS SAID, ASK YOURSELF, WHETHER TRUMP WOULD GO TO WAR WITH RUSSIA OVER A PATCH OF LAND CALLED THE GAP, IF I'M SAYING IT CORRECTLY, WOULD AMERICANS BE READY FOR SUCH A THING, THE QUESTION ANSWERS ITSELF AND THAT ALONE UNDERMINES TO TERRENCE.

SO WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON TO TERRENCE?

>> THAT'S REAL.

WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT ANYWAYS.

THE SAME THING HAPPENS WITH POLAND, FINLAND, WHOEVER.

IT'S NOT A QUESTION ABOUT DIPLOMATIC TALKS WAITING ANOTHER 2 TO 3 WEEKS.

FROM THE BORDER, TO THE SEA, IT'S 200 KILOMETERS.

>> YOU ARE BASICALLY LAYING DOWN THE GAUNTLET, YOU ARE SAYING WE WILL FIGHT.

>> WE WILL FIGHT.

WE ARE NOT TAKING ANY RISKS .

WE WERE THERE IN 1940.

>> ARE YOUR PEOPLE PREPARED FOR THIS, ARE YOU PREPARING YOUR PEOPLE?

>> IF YOU ASK ESTONIA PEOPLE TWO QUESTIONS, ONE ISSUE WE FIGHT BACK AND 94% SAY YES, AND THEN, ARE YOU PERSONALLY PARTICIPATING, THIS IS 70%.

>> THIS WILL HAPPEN.

THIS WORKS .

>> AT THE SECURITY CONFERENCE EARLIER THIS YEAR, YOU SAID SOMETIMES YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BRUTAL COMMUNICATION TOWARDS EUROPE.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> I MEAN EUROPE HAS BEEN, AS AN OLD FAT CAT.

-- CAN I CALL YOU?

LAZY FAT OLD CAT?

I WILL COMMUNICATE THAT TO THE EU.

>> IT WAS NOT PUTIN WHO WOKE UP EUROPE.

WE HAVE SAID WE IN EUROPE NEED MORE HEAVY DEFENSE.

NOW THIS BRUTAL PRESSURE ON EUROPE, IT IS WORKING BUT I THINK GERMANY CHANGE THE DYNAMICS A LOT LAST YEAR.

THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK THAT TRUMP SHAPED THE GROUND.

>> A QUICK QUESTION YOU MENTIONED GERMANY, AND IT COULD HAPPEN IN POLAND, SPAIN, FRANCE, BASICALLY RIGHT-WING POPULISTS WHO DO NOT SUPPORT NECESSARILY THIS WAR, AND ACTUALLY SOME OF THEM ARE QUITE CLOSE INCLUDING THE FB AND WANT TO BRING RUSSIA BACK INTO THE EQUATION.

DOES THAT POTENTIALLY CHANGE YOUR POLITICAL CALCULUS IN TERMS OF WHAT MIGHT EUROPE'S POSTURE BE IF THESE PARTIES BECOME LEADERS OF THESE COUNTRIES?

>> THESE DYNAMICS ARE CONCERNING, OF COURSE.

AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT THIS WAS ATTRIBUTED TO THIS PUBLICLY AND THEY SHOULD ALL UNDERSTAND RUSSIA IS ALREADY ATTACKING EUROPE, IT'S NOT ATTACKING THE BALTIC STATES OR POLAND BUT OLD EUROPE.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

AND OF COURSE, THESE TIMES ARE EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND IT'S CONCERNING, OF COURSE.

>> DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU'RE IN HERE AND TALKING TO YOUR PARTNERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT ACTUALLY STUFF HAPPENS AT THE UN?

IS IT STILL THE CONVENING POWER, THE TALKING SHARK?

>> THE SECURITY COUNCIL IS OUT OF ORDER.

SO THIS IS CONCERNING BUT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO GLOBAL PARTNERS AND TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, THIS IS A FRAMEWORK BUT OF COURSE WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT AS A CONDITION, UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS RULE OF LAW IS BASED ON THIS, WE HAVE DIFFERENT CONFLICTS GLOBALLY.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER , MARGUS TSAHKNA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> IT MAY FEEL LIKE THE SUFFERING AND THE ATROCITIES IN GAZA HAVE FADED FROM VIEW, BUT HERE, THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, THE PLIGHT OF PALESTINIANS HAS BEEN RAISED BY FRANCE, CANADA, AND THE UK AND JORDAN.

THE FRENCH PRESIDENT CALLED THE WORLD IN ACTION THEIR SHAMEFUL, SAYING WHAT CREDIBILITY DO WE HAVE IF WE CONTINUE TO REMAIN INACTIVE IN THE FACE OF GAZA?

FROM SUE DON TO YEMEN, THE WORLD'S MOST DEEP --NEEDY ARE GOING WITHOUT.

WITH COUNTRIES INCREASINGLY LOOKING EDWARD AND INTERNATIONAL LAW BEING FLOUTED AGAIN AND AGAIN, MY NEXT GUEST IS NO EASY JOB.

TOM FLETCHER IS THE UNITED NATIONS HUMANITARIAN RELIEF IN CHIEF AND HE IS JOINING ME ON THIS IMPORTANT WEEK.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

WE LIKE TO TAKE STOCK FROM YOU ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION.

PRESIDENT TRUMP GAVE AN ADDRESS TO THE UN YESTERDAY IN WHICH HE TOUTED THE MIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES, IN WHICH HE REALLY WAS SORT OF PRESENTED AS A WORLD WHERE THE STRONGEST SURVIVE.

HE ALSO SAID HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ENDING EIGHT WARS.

BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THAT AND YOU SEE THAT SO MUCH MONEY IS GOING INTO WAR, AND LESS AND LESS INTO HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS?

>> UNITED NATIONS WAS CREATED BECAUSE WE SEE THE RISK OF A WORLD RUN BY STRONGMEN AND AUTOCRATS.

WE ARE MUCH MORE FOR FINDING WAYS TO WORK TOGETHER INCLUDING WITH OUR AMERICAN PARTNERS AND HAVE COME FROM A MEETING WITH THE BOARD OF PEACE WHERE WE WERE DOING THAT ON THE SITUATION IN GAZA.

MY WORRY IS THE WORLD ECONOMY IS ON A RAW FOOTING.

WE ARE CREATING WEAPONS SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL.

CLIMATE IS GETTING OUT OF OUR CONTROL AS WE SEE ON OUR SCREENS.

WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO MESS AROUND.

OF COURSE EVERYONE HAS THEIR DOMESTIC POLITICS BUT THIS IS GOT TO BE A WEEK WHERE WE ARE LOOKING AT GENUINE OUTCOMES THAT REVERSE SOME OF THE DANGERS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE OF THOSE THINGS YOU JUST RAISE, THE BOARD OF PEACE.

I INTRODUCED YOU WITH THE DIRE SITUATION IN GAZA.

WHAT DID YOU HEAR FROM THE BOARD OF PEACE ABOUT ACTUALLY MEETING THE MATERIAL NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE OF GAZA BECAUSE DESPITE IT, MORE THAN A YEAR OR SO WITH THE CEASE-FIRE, THE HUMANITARIAN NEEDS ARE NOWHERE NEAR BEING MET.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THE SITUATION IN GAZA CONTINUES TO BE BLEAK FOR PALESTINIANS AND LOOK IN THE LAST YEAR, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO SCALE UP PARTICULARLY FOOD.

THAT'S BEEN THE BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT FROM WHEN WE WOULD HAVE SPOKEN HERE OUTSIDE THE UNITED NATIONS A YEAR AGO.

THERE ARE IMPROVEMENTS THERE BUT ALL OF US, THE UNITED NATIONS, PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP, BOARD OF PEACE, WE ARE FRUSTRATED THAT WE HAVEN'T GONE FURTHER.

WINTER IS GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY GRIM FOR PEOPLE IN GAZA RIGHT NOW.

WE NEED TO GET 90,000 FAMILY TENTS IN, IN THE WEEK OR TWO.

AND WE NEED TO START TEARING THE RUBBLE AND BE ALLOWED TO BRING AN ENGINE OIL.

>> AN OBSTACLE TO ALL OF THIS?

>> THE PROCESS IS NOT MOVING FAST ENOUGH.

>> WHY NOT?

>> WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO WORK ANYWHERE WE WANT IN THE WORLD WITHOUT ANY IMPEDIMENT AND WE ARE STILL IN THIS FRUSTRATING SITUATION WHERE WE CAN'T BRING IN EVERYTHING WE NEED TO BRING IN.

>> WHY CAN'T YOU?

>> ISRAEL IS THE OCCUPYING PARTNER.

THEY ARE BLOCKING MATERIAL WE NEED TO GET IN AND THE PARTNERS WE NEED TO WORK WITH INCLUDING THE NGOS AND THE WHOLE UNITED NATIONS FAMILY BUT THERE IS IMPROVEMENT .

33,000 KIDS WENT BACK TO SCHOOL AT THE START OF THE WEEK, WE ARE FEEDING HALF 1 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY WEEK.

BUT THE TEST OF WHAT WE DO IN GAZA CANNOT JUST BE THAT WE DO ENOUGH TO KEEP THIS OUT OF THE HEADLINES.

IT'S GOT TO BE DIGNITY, SECURITY, OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

>> OBVIOUSLY A FINAL PEACE AGREEMENT NOT JUST A CEASE-FIRE OR A LITTLE BIT BETTER HUMANITARIANISM, IS GOING TO BE THE TEST, RIGHT, IS THERE ANYTHING THERE, ANY PROGRESS THAT YOU CAN SEE IN TERMS OF THE INTERNATIONAL STABILIZATION OR ACTUAL SECURITY FORCES THERE, OR HAMAS DISARMING, OR THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED?

>> WE HAVE A CEASE-FIRE AND THE SITUATION IS BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE THE CEASE-FIRE AND BEFORE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S 20 POINT PLAN.

AFTER THE GA LAST YEAR WE WENT FROM THERE AND IF YOU TOLD ME I WOULD BE IN GAZA REOPENING BAKERIES IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED YOU EVEN THOUGH WE HOPE WE WOULD GET THERE.

BUT THINGS HAVE IMPROVED BUT STILL, 1400 PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE THE CEASE- FIRE, SO IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND WE'VE GOT TO DO BETTER COLLECTIVELY AND EVERYONE AGREES.

>> BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN OBSERVING THAT THE UNITED NATIONS ITSELF IS IN SOMEWHAT OF A, PEOPLE SAY SOME SAY A DECLINE, UNABLE TO USE THE BULLY PULPIT, UNABLE TO CONVENE, ALL THE CONSTITUENT STATES THAT ARE NEEDED, WHAT IS THE BOARD OF PEACE DOING, IS IT MORE THAN A TALKING SHOP, WHAT IS THE EXECUTIVE REALITY?

>> ON THE FIRST POINT, WE ARE NOT IN DECLINE.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL MAY BE PARALYZED BUT MANY ARE GETTING KILLED FOR WHAT WE DO, THAT'S NOT DECLINE, WE ARE SAVING LIVES.

34 MILLION PEOPLE THIS YEAR ON LIFESAVING SUPPORT AND WE ARE NOT RETREATING FROM THE WORK BUT THE SECURITY COUNCIL HAS BEEN PARALYZED FOR A LONG TIME.

NOW, ON THE BOARD OF PEACE, I WAS AT THE PRESENTATION TODAY AND THEY HAD BIG PLANS INCLUDING FOR RECONSTRUCTION.

AND WITH PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP, THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE , THERE'S A VISION THERE, THERE'S ENERGY THERE, AND THERE'S FUNDING COMING IN.

WE HAVE A SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION THAT MANDATES US TO WORK WITH THE BOARD OF PEACE AND TO SEE THAT PROGRESS BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE CAN'T WAIT FOR THE POLITICS.

30 YEARS AGO I STARTED WORKING ON ISRAEL AND PALESTINE AS A YOUNG BRITISH DIPLOMAT AND A WISE PERSON, A WISE OLD DIPLOMAT SAID YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER PEACE IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE BUT THERE'S ALWAYS AN ELECTION THAT PREVENTS IT AND OF COURSE WE ARE HEADING TOWARDS ELECTIONS OCTOBER 27th AND WE ARE BEING TOLD THERE'S NOTHING POSSIBLE UNTIL AFTER THOSE ELECTIONS, WE CAN'T WAIT.

>> ANOTHER MONTH OF SUFFERING FOR THE PEOPLE ALL OVER THAT REGION.

>> AND WINTER CONDITIONS WILL GET MUCH WORSE.

>> YOU HAVE PUT OUT AN APPEAL, YOU SAID IN MARCH, $23 BILLION APPEAL AIMING TO HELP 87 MILLION LIVES.

YOU'VE HELD AN EVENT AROUND ALL OF THAT, WHAT IS THE UPSHOT?

>> WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS, WE ARE RAISING MONEY, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO HERE, WE TALK ABOUT THE WORLD BEING DANGEROUS AND IT'S ALL IMPOSSIBLE AND OVERWHELMING AND I THINK PEOPLE FEEL IT'S SO OUT OF CONTROL AND WE ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY.

>> 87 MILLION LIVES, THAT'S MORE PEOPLE THAT DIED IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR AND WE ARE SETTING OUT TO SAVE THAT NUMBER OF LIVES AND WE'VE REACHED ALMOST HALF OF THE NUMBER ALREADY AND THESE ARE IN PLACES LIKE SUIT ON --SUDAN, AND THE WORLD IS RESPONDING AND THE MONEY IS COMING IN AS COMING IN BEHIND A STRATEGIC PLAN.

WE'VE DONE THE EFFICIENCY WORK TO TAKE OUT THE DUPLICATION OR TAKE OUT ANYTHING THAT GETS BETWEEN THE TAXPAYER AND SAVING LIVES BUT MY GOODNESS WE'VE GOT TO WORK HARDER TO RAISE THAT MONEY NOW.

WE ARE THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY THROUGH AND WE ARE NOT YET ON TRACK.

>> WOULD YOU SAY THERE'S A BIT OF GOOD NEWS?

>> GOOD NEWS THAT WE REACHED 34 MILLION PEOPLE.

IT'S TERRIBLE NEWS THAT THERE ARE OVER 200 MILLION PEOPLE WE HAVEN'T REACHED YET AND THE SPACE ON THE MAP, THIS WORRIES ME, THE SPACE ON THE MAP THAT SOMEHOW THE WORLD IS NOT REACHING IS GETTING LARGER, AND OFTEN TIMES PEOPLE SAY WHAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THE UNITED NATIONS, WHAT HAPPENS WITHOUT HUMANITARIAN LAW, FOR MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE, THAT'S THEIR REALITY ALREADY.

>> CAN I ASK ABOUT HUMANITARIAN LAW AND INTERNATIONAL LAW, CNN DID SOME EXCLUSIVE REPORTING A FEW MONTHS AGO ABOUT THE KILLING OF ALL OF THOSE CHILDREN AND SCHOOL WORKERS IN IRAN BY THE UNITED STATES AT THE OPENING DAY OF THE WAR.

AND, IT WAS SAID THAT ACCORDING TO REPORTING, THE US MILITARY COMMANDERS ESSENTIALLY IGNORED OR FAILED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE OUTDATED TARGETING AND OUTDATED MAPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THIS IS ALL PART OF WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE SO-CALLED COLLATERAL DAMAGE INCREASING THE HUMANITARIAN DISASTERS ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT IT TODAY.

WHAT IS THERE TO KEEP THESE COUNTRIES THAT ARE GOING TO WAR FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU KNOW, FROM JUST STICKING TO THE RIGHT TARGETS?

>> INTERNATIONAL LAW IS THE SCAFFOLDING THAT WE HAVE THAT STOPS HUMANS FROM DOING TERRIBLE THINGS TO EACH OTHER.

IT'S WHY IT'S SO FUNDAMENTAL TO HOW WE LIVE TOGETHER IN THE WORLD.

AND THIS IS NOT A POPULAR THING.

LOTS OF PEOPLE WILL WATCH THIS AND GET CROSS BUT IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, THERE AREN'T COUNTRIES THAT CAN OPT OUT OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW, IT'S BIGGER THAN US AND BIGGER THAN ANY ONE COUNTRY.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, SAYING THAT THEY WANT TO DISMANTLE THE ICC AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT'S ABOUT HOLDING INDIVIDUALS RESPONSIBLE FOR TERRIBLE CRIMES, IS THAT A PROBLEM THAT WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE AND YOUR SECTOR MORE DIFFICULT?

>> ANYTHING THAT DISMANTLES INTERNATIONAL LAW IS A PROBLEM FOR OUR WORK BECAUSE WHEN YOU DISMANTLE THOSE PROTECTIONS THEN IT'S MY COLLEAGUES ON THE FRONT LINE THAT GET KILLED AND WE'VE LOST OVER 1000 COLLEAGUES AND I HAVE TO CALL THEIR FAMILIES AND THE FIRST THING THEY SAY TO ME IS WILL THERE BE JUSTICE?

WILL THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED MY HUSBAND, MY WIFE, MY FATHER, MY SON, MY DAUGHTER, BE HELD TO ACCOUNT, WILL THERE BE AN INVESTIGATION?

AND I CAN'T THINK OF HOW MANY INVESTIGATIONS THAT HAVE REALLY HAPPENED INTO THESE BREACHES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, SO WE NEED THE LAWYERS AND WE NEED TO HOLD TO ACCOUNT THE PEOPLE WHO GIVE THE ORDER AND THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE THE WEAPONS AND MAYBE PARTICULARLY AS AI COMES MORE INTO THE SYSTEMS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED THE WEAPON AND, THEM TOO.

>> AI, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY, A LOT OF CLIMATE ACTIVISTS AND WE ARE ABOUT TO GET THE BRUNT OF EL NIÑO, WE HAD A CLIMATE DISASTER YEAR, AI IS SUDDENLY BECOMES THE THING THAT ALL THESE NATIONS EVEN LEADERS ARE TALKING ABOUT AND THE CLIMATE ACTIVISTS ARE WORRIED THAT THE EXISTING EXISTENTIAL THREAT OF CLIMATE IS BEING PUSHED TO THE BACK BURNER AND I ASK IN RELATION TO FOOD SCARCITY AND ALL OF THAT SORT OF POVERTY AROUND THE WORLD.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO BALANCE, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THESE TWO EXISTENTIAL THREATS?

>> WE CAN'T IGNORE THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND WE CAN'T IGNORE THE AI CRISIS.

I WORRY AI WILL BE LESS HUMANITARIAN THAN HUMANS ARE.

SO IT'S GREAT WE'VE GOT THAT FRESH FOCUS ON IT.

IN UKRAINE, SEEING THOSE AI POWER DRONES, AND A CHILLING FACT THERE IS THAT AS THEY REACHED THE END OF THEIR BATTERY LIFE, THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO HIT CIVILIAN TARGETS BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE PRESSURE ON THEM TO DELIVER.

I WAS ALSO IN THE HIGH MOUNTAINS YOU KNOW, WE CANNOT NEGLECT THE CLIMATE, WE CANNOT LOSE TIME ON THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

>> LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN NEPAL.

>> OFTEN AI HELPS US AS WELL.

WE ARE USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO ANTICIPATE CLIMATE CRISES AND WE ARE USING DRONES, I WAS IN VENEZUELA AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE AND WE FLY IN THESE DRONES TO FIND SURVIVORS SO THERE'S A POSITIVE AS WELL AS A NEGATIVE.

>> WHAT DOES THE REST OF THIS YEAR LOOK LIKE, THE NEXT THREE MONTHS OR SO IN TERMS OF PLUSES AND MINUSES ON THE LEDGER OF TRYING TO REACH YOUR TARGET?

>> IT'S A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.

I WILL GO TO THE UNDERFUNDED CRISES THAT DON'T GET THE ATTENTION THAT IT'S HARDER TO GET ON YOUR SHOW OR OTHER SHOWS, BURKINA FASO, YEMEN, WE HAVE 73 COLLEAGUES DETAINED.

WE WILL TRY AND BRING THE VISIBILITY TO THOSE CRISES AND THE FUNDING BUT ALSO, THIS WEEK, I'VE SHAKEN DOWN EVERY FOREIGN MINISTER I MET, 30 OR 40 FOREIGN MINISTERS AND WHICH EACH OF THEM I PRESSED INTO THEIR HANDS -- >> DID YOU SAY SHAKEN DOWN?

>> IS THAT THE RIGHT WORD?

I HAVE PRESSED INTO THEIR HAND THIS PAPER THAT HAS 10 AGREEMENTS I NEED RIGHT NOW, IF WE GET THEM AND THEY ARE NOT SUPER COMPLICATED -- >> IN THE FIRST.

>> STOP INTERFERENCE IN OUR WORK IN AFGHANISTAN, THE SECOND, KEEP THE BORDER OPEN INTO SUDAN SO WE CAN REACH 1 MILLION PEOPLE .

IF WE CAN GET THESE 10 AGREEMENTS, WE CAN REACH 11 MILLION PEOPLE THIS YEAR WHO WOULD OTHERWISE DIE.

THAT IS AND GET PEOPLE OUT OF BED AND GET THE BLOOD PUMPING, THEN I GIVE UP.

>> BUT DO YOU THINK THEY ARE LISTENING, WILL THEY READ THE 10 AGREEMENTS, DO YOU THINK?

>> SO, I CAN SHOW YOU LOTS OF PHOTOS OF DIFFERENT FOR MINISTERS POURING OVER THESE AND I'M TRYING TO CREATE A BIT OF COMPETITION, THEY ARE SAYING I CAN DO THIS WHEN I CAN'T DO THIS ONE BUT LET ME HAVE A CRACK AT THIS AND USING THEIR COLLECTIVE INFLUENCE.

THE WINTER PLAN FOR GAZA, MAKING SURE THAT WE REACH HALF 1 MILLION PEOPLE WITH TENTS, HEATING, COOKING OIL THAT THEY NEED.

THESE ARE STRAIGHTFORWARD, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK FOR ANY OF THESE THINGS BUT THERE'S A COALITION OF FOREIGN MINISTERS WHO ARE SUPPORTING THIS WORK, AND LET'S SEE WHAT WE GET TO AND LET'S MAKE THIS WEEK NOT ALL ABOUT THE HANDSHAKES AND THE SPEECHES AND WHO SAID WHAT EVERYONE RUNNING AROUND IN A FRENZY OF ACTIVITY IT'S GOT TO BE OUTCOMES.

>> AND, THERE'S AN ELECTION COMING UP HERE, FOR THE NEXT SECRETARY GENERAL.

WHAT IS THE NEXT SECRETARY GENERAL HAVE TO DO, GIVEN WHAT THE CURRENT SECRETARY GENERAL SAID, YOU KNOW THAT THE WORLD IS BECOMING LESS ORDERED IN HIS OPENING SPEECH, AND URGING THIS RENEWAL, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NEXT SECRETARY GENERAL HAS TO CHALLENGE TO REALLY MAKE THIS A POSITION THAT IS LISTENED TO, THAT IT GRABS THE BULLY PULPIT AND SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, KNOCK SOME HEADS TOGETHER IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL, IF IT'S EVEN POSSIBLE?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SPECULATING ON WHO WILL MAKE THE SPEECH THIS WEEK THAT CATCHES FIRE AND CAPTURES THIS MOMENT AND DESCRIBES, GIVES THE ANSWER TO THAT CHALLENGE.

IT WAS THIS SECRETARY GENERAL AND THAT'S WHAT HE GOT THE OVATION AT THE END OF IT.

HE'S GOING STRONG, TALKING ABOUT RUNNING TO THE END OF HIS NEXT 100 DAYS IN OFFICE BUT OF COURSE WE GOT THAT TRANSITION AND WE ARE AWARE OF THAT.

THE NEXT, WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE FUNDING TO THOSE OUT IN THE FIELD INCLUDING THE HUMANITARIANS, WE'VE GOT TO BE LESS RISK-AVERSE, A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE UN, AND AROUND, SAY WE SHOULDN'T TAKE THE ONE OUT OF 10 BIDS, IT'S THE ONE OUT OF 10 CHANCES WE SHOULD BE TAKING BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO TAKE THEM AND LET'S GET OUT AND SAVE THESE 87 MILLION LIVES.

>> TOM FLETCHER, THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

> >> HUMANITARIAN GROUPS GRAPPLED WITH FALLING AID, AND A NEW THREAT TO GLOBAL INSTITUTIONS IS RISING IN EUROPE.

THE FAR RIGHT, ALTERNATIVE FOR JOURNEY --GERMANY PARTY MADE UNPRECEDENTED GAINS IN ELECTIONS TAPPING INTO DISCONTENT OVER MIGRATION AND THE ECONOMY AMONGST OTHER THINGS.

AUTHOR AND POLITICAL SCIENTIST, IVAN KRASTEV HAS STUDIED THE TENSE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN HIS BOOKS LIKE AFTER EUROPE, AND THE LIGHT THAT FAILED.

HE TALKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT FAR RIGHT AND FAR LEFT PARTIES THAT THREATENED EUROPE'S ESTABLISHMENT.

>> THANK YOU, IVAN KRASTEV, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION.

>> WE'VE SEEN SOME AMAZING THINGS HAPPEN IN GERMANY INCLUDING THE PARTY KNOWN AS ALTERNATIVE GERMANY, AFD PARTY, DOING EXTRAORDINARILY WELL IN THE ELECTION.

LET'S START BY EXPLAINING WHAT IS THAT PARTY, WHAT DOES IT STAND FOR?

>> INTERESTINGLY, IT STARTED AS A PARTY WHICH WAS VERY MUCH KIND OF SKEPTICAL TO THE WAY THE EUROPEAN UNION WAS DOING, IT WAS STARTED BY SOME PROFESSORS OF ECONOMICS AND IT STARTED AS A WEST GERMAN PARTY.

BUT THEN OVER THE TIME BASICALLY, PARTICULARLY AFTER THE IMMIGRATION CRISIS OF 2015, THREE THINGS HAPPENED IN THE WAY THE PARTY LOOKS NOW.

BEFORE IT WAS A PROFESSORS PARTY, NOW, THIS IS A PARTY WHICH WAS VERY MUCH FOCUSING ON THE PROBLEM OF MIGRATIONS, IT'S NOT VERY DIFFERENT FROM MANY OF THE FAR RIGHT PARTIES IN EUROPE.

SECONDLY, IT IS OVERREPRESENTED IN GERMANY.

THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE GERMANY IS PART OF GERMANY WHERE THERE ARE REFUGEES AND MIGRANTS.

>> SO HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS MIGRANT CRISIS AND WHAT ANGELA MERKEL DID TO THE RISE OF THE PARTY?

>> IT WAS IMPORTANT, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND PARTICULARLY THE EASTERN PART OF IT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHY PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING SO MUCH WHILE THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN REGION THERE WEREN'T MANY MIGRANTS BUT THERE WERE NOT MANY MIGRANTS IN EAST GERMANY BUT SINCE 1989, AROUND 25% OF BASICALLY PEOPLE LIVING IN THIS REGION OF GERMANY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN WHICH I'M TALKING ABOUT, 44% LAST WEEK BASICALLY THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING HERE.

SO MIGRATION WAS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE FEAR THOSE WERE COMING IT WAS THE TRAUMA OF THOSE WHO HAVE LEFT.

AND I DO BELIEVE THIS WAS THE PART OF THE STORY THAT PEOPLE QUITE OFTEN DON'T UNDERSTAND.

IT WAS ALSO ABOUT THE VERY AGING POPULATION, DEMOCRACY, AND IMPORTANTLY, PARTICULARLY IN EASTERN GERMANY, REJECTIONS AND REBELLION OVER -- IT'S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT AT THIS MOMENT, MIGRATION IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR BOTH OF THEM AND SECOND, WHEN IT COMES TO FOREIGN POLICY, THAT IS THE PARTY THAT VERY STRONGLY ATTACKS THE GERMAN CONSENSUS ON THE WAR IN UKRAINE BASICALLY THEY SAID WE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT UKRAINE AND WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES IS MUCH MORE FRIENDLY TO RUSSIA THAN ANY OTHER PARTIES IN THE GERMAN POLITICAL SYSTEM.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER FAR LEFT PARTY, WHICH IS ALSO DOING QUITE WELL , IS THAT RIGHT, AND IS THAT FUELED BY SOME OF THE SAME RESENTMENTS?

>> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PARTY WAS THE BIGGEST PARTY ON THE ELECTIONS AND THIS IS QUITE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS ALSO A PARTY THAT CHANGED VERY MUCH ITSELF.

IT STARTED, THIS WAS THE PARTY OF EAST GERMANY AND IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE NOSTALGIA OF GERMANY BECAUSE DON'T FORGET, GERMANY WAS A PARTICULAR IDENTITY.

IT WAS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE OLD SYSTEM BUT WE WERE DIFFERENT, WE ALSO HAVE OUR SUCCESSES AND NOW WE ARE TREATED AS SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS BUT NOW, THE LEFT PARTY IS VERY MUCH ALSO THE PARTY IN WHICH YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A VERY STRONG PROTEST AGAINST ECONOMIC POLICIES PARTICULARLY IN BERLIN.

IT WAS VERY MUCH FOCUSING ON HOUSING.

IT'S VERY MUCH SUPPORTED BY YOUNG PEOPLE.

IT'S VERY MUCH SUPPORTED BY MIGRANTS, SO, FROM THIS POINT OF VIEW, , IT'S VERY DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO MIGRATION BUT WHAT IS INTERESTING, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RESULT IS THAT BOTH CENTERLEFT AND CENTER RIGHT, BASICALLY HAVE MAJOR POLITICAL SUFFERINGS .

CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR HISTORY ARE GOING TO ENTER THE REGION.

IT'S NOT SIMPLY THAT THESE TWO PARTIES DISAGREE ON MOST THINGS.

BUT THERE'S ONE THING ON WHICH THEY AGREE AND THIS IS VERY MUCH AN ATTACK ON THE MAINSTREAM POLITICAL PARTIES, BASICALLY THEY TRIED TO REDEFINE WHAT IS WHAT IS LEFT AND WHAT IS RIGHT?

>> THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE UNITED STATES BUT WE SEE THAT A DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST CAN BE DOING VERY WELL, THE POPULIST NATIONALIST CAN DO WELL AND PEOPLE LIKE STEVE BANNON ARE BRIDGING EVERYTHING.

IS THERE SOME MORE IN COMMON BETWEEN WHAT WE CALL THE FAR LEFT AND FAR RIGHT THEN PEOPLE THINK?

>> LISTEN, MOST OF WHAT IS COMMON, FOR THEM, IT'S THAT THEY DON'T ACCEPT THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND THE WAY IT IS.

ONE OF THE MAJOR STORIES THAT PARTICULARLY THE GERMAN POLITICAL SYSTEM , IT WAS VERY STABLE, PREDICTABLE, ECONOMICALLY SUCCESSFUL SO FOR VERY LONG PERIODS OF TIME, IT WAS DELIVERING ECONOMIC RESULTS BUT ALSO POLITICAL AND SOCIAL STABILITY.

AND THEN COMES THE CHANGES.

ECONOMICALLY AS YOU ALL KNOW, GERMANY IS UNDER MAJOR PRESSURE.

IT'S MAJOR PRESSURE BECAUSE BASICALLY CHINA, IT'S STARTING TO DESTROY THE GERMAN INDUSTRY, SO FROM THIS POINT GERMANY IS SEEING THINGS THAT WAS COMMON IN THE UNITED STATES, GERMAN CAR COMPANIES, CUTTING 50,000 PEOPLE, 100,000 PEOPLE.

SO THERE IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE.

SECOND WE SEE AN AGING POPULATION .

CERTAINLY, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, BOTH FAR LEFT AND FAR RIGHT ARE VERY WELL REPRESENTED AMONG THE YOUNGEST POPULATIONS.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO SEE, YOU SEE THAT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNGER THAN 25, THERE'S ONE IMPORTANT THING IN GERMAN POLITICS WHICH MAKES IT DIFFERENT FROM THE UNITED STATES.

GERMAN POLITICS WAS ALSO VERY MUCH BASED ON A CERTAIN TYPE OF IDEA OF NEVER AGAIN, WE SHOULD NOT GO BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED.

THERE WAS THIS TOTAL FOCUS ON THE 1930S AND WHAT HAPPENED, SO AS A RESULT OF IT BASICALLY, GERMANY WAS MUCH MORE REGENT THAN OTHERS TO ALLOW ANY TYPE OF A PARTY THAT STARTS TO LOOK LIKE A SYSTEM PARTY, AND THIS WAS MOSTLY ABOUT FAR RIGHT , DEMOCRATS MADE A RULE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO ENTER A COALITION WITH THE FAR LEFT AND NOW THIS DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE.

THE POLITICAL PAST, THIS EXPERIENCE OF GERMANY, IS LOSING ITS POWER TO SHAPE THE POLITICAL CHOICES.

AFTER THREE GENERATIONS, COMMUNISM AND NAZISM LOOKS LIKE A CONSTRUCT, SO THEY ARE NOT AFRAID TO VOTE FOR PARTIES WHICH ARE IN THE MAINSTREAM DISCOURSE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THAT ARE RELATED TO THIS PERIOD OF EITHER THE GERMANY OR THE GR.

>> YOU SAID SOMETHING FASCINATING THAT THIS IS PARTLY ABOUT THE LOSS OF MEMORY OR THE MEMORY AT LEAST, OF THE 20th CENTURY CRISES OF COMMUNISM AND -ISM IN GERMANY, PEOPLE SAYING, NEVER AGAIN.

AND SOMEHOW, THAT IS FADED FROM MEMORY AND YET YOU ALSO SAY THAT THIS IS ALMOST A NOSTALGIC MOVEMENT TO GO BACK TO SOME TYPE OF GERMANY THAT'S A FANTASY VERSION OF GERMANY, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> DON'T FORGET, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, THE GERMAN MEMORY AND REMEMBRANCE CULTURE BECAUSE IT WAS MUCH MORE STRONG AND RADICAL THAN ANYWHERE ELSE AND WE BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS ONLY THE CULTURE OF GUILT BUT THIS WAS ALSO THE CULTURE OF PRIDE BECAUSE WEST GERMANY, WE WERE PROUD TO BE THE FIRST ONE WHO FACED THE CRIMES THAT WE DID.

AND THIS WAS VERY MUCH ABOUT THE GENERATION OF 1968.

BUT IMPORTANT THINGS HAPPEN AND I KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE VERY NUANCED, PARTICULARLY AFTER THE END OF THE COLD WAR, A BRITISH HISTORIAN PUT IT IN A VERY NICE WAY, HE SAID, WE STOPPED STUDYING HISTORY.

WE STARTED STUDYING ONLY THE LESSONS OF HISTORY.

SO SUDDENLY, WHILE EVERYBODY WAS TALKING VERY MUCH ABOUT THE CRIMES AND THE NAZI'S AND STALINISM, PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYMORE HOW IT HAPPENED THAT YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE 1920S AND 1930S IN GERMANY, BECAME EITHER COMMUNIST OR FASCIST.

THIS KIND OF A DISAPPEARANCE OF THE PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING, THIS TYPE OF NOT UNDERSTANDING, WHAT WAS MOVING PEOPLE IN ONE DIRECTION AND THE OTHER, AND REDUCING HISTORY TO THE LESSONS OF HISTORY, MAKING IT POSSIBLE, SO FOR THESE PEOPLE, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS NOSTALGIA FOR THE--NAZI PERIOD OR COMMUNIST PERIOD.

MORE BISMARCK AND LESS HITLER BUT WE WANT YOU TO BE A NORMAL COUNTRY AND LET'S STOP TALKING ABOUT GERMANY ONLY ABOUT HITLER, LET'S ALSO TRY TO SEE WHAT WE'VE DONE.

WE HAVE THE RIGHTS THAT OTHER NATIONS HAVE.

THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE EXCEPTIONAL NATURE OF GERMAN HISTORY, EUROPEAN POLICY AS A WHOLE IS CHANGING BECAUSE THEN SUDDENLY, AND THIS IS THE INTERESTING THING.

NATIONS CAN AGREE ON MIGRANTS BUT THEY CAN'T AGREE WHAT HAPPENED IN WORLD WAR II.

THIS PUTS THE EUROPEAN PROJECTS UNDER PRESSURE, IN A MOMENT IN WHICH YOU KNOW, IN THE NEXT YEAR, 2027, THEY ARE GOING TO BE HAVING FOUR CRITICAL ELECTIONS, FRANCE, ITALY, SPAIN AND POLAND.

SO HOW THESE GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER TO WHAT EXTENT BASICALLY, THIS IS GOING TO BE ALSO AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION.

THIS IS WHAT MAKES THESE ELECTIONS WHICH ARE REGIONAL ELECTIONS IN GERMANY SO IMPORTANT.

>> SO YOU THINK THE ELECTIONS IN GERMANY ARE A FOREBEAR OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH MARIE LE PEN IN FRANCE, WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES IN EUROPE THAT ARE FACING THIS I'LL CALL IT, NATIONALIST POPULACE BACKLASH?

>> LISTEN, WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, I DON'T KNOW.

OF COURSE WE HAVE PROBABLY MORE FORTUNETELLERS PER CAPITA BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO ALWAYS HAVE A PREDICTION BUT IT'S CLEAR, YOU CAN END UP WITH RIGHT WING COALITIONS AND ALL THE COUNTRIES THAT THEY'VE TALKED, ITALY, POLAND, SPAIN AND KEEP IN MIND SOMETHING THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME.

NORMALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ONE PARTY, YOU REMEMBER WHEN MALONEY CAME TO POWER, EVERYTHING WAS ABOUT MALONEY, BUT WE ARE SEEING A MUCH MORE FRAGMENTATION.

YOU HAVE A PARTY ON THE RIGHT, AND POLAND, YOU HAVE ALMOST 2 PARTIES ON THE RIGHT, OF COURSE IT'S NOT THE CONSERVATIVES BUT IT'S THE BOX IN SPAIN.

SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MAJOR TRANSFORMATION OF EUROPEAN POLITICS, AND HERE COMES THE QUESTION, FROM THE EUROPEAN POINT OF VIEW PARTICULARLY IN A SITUATION IN WHICH ALSO EXPECT IN THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS, WE ARE GOING TO SEE EVEN MORE OF AN ESCALATION.

YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT THE NEW DEFENSE BUDGETS IN GERMANY WHICH IS VERY HIGH, IN FIVE YEARS THE BUDGET WILL BE HIGHER THAN THE DEFENSE BUDGET OF FRANCE AND THE UNITED KINGDOM TOGETHER.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY FOR EUROPE TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF.

THIS IS GOING TO BE COMBINED WITH --AND IF YOU ARE A POLISH OR FRENCH NATIONALIST, YOU CANNOT BE SURE.

I DO BELIEVE THAT FROM THIS POINT, WE END IT WITH THE STORY, THAT THE BEST AND THE WORST IS THE SAME THING.

THE DECISION OF GERMANY, TO TAKE IN ITS HANDS THE DEFENSE OF ITSELF IS THE BEST THING THAT EUROPE CAN HOPE FOR BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT CAN BECOME A MAJOR THREAT, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, ONE DAY THE NATIONALISTS ARE GOING TO DOMINATE AND THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THE COUNTRIES.

>> ONE PARADOX HERE, IS THAT THESE NATIONALISTS POPULACE PARTIES, VERY MUCH AGAINST IN SOME WAYS THE EUROPEAN EXPERIMENT BUT THEY STILL HAVE A STRONG DESIRE TO STAY IN EUROPE, TO STAY IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, IS THAT RIGHT, AND WHY?

>> IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS.

10 YEARS AGO AFTER BREXIT, THERE WERE 17 PARTIES THAT WERE ADVOCATING FOR THE REFERENDUMS EITHER FOR --AND NOW WE WILL SEE THAT MOST OF THESE KIND OF PARTIES WOULD SHAPE IT, BREXIT DIDN'T DO WELL.

AND SUDDENLY, ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES LOOK AROUND AND SAID THE WORLD IS TOO BIG, THE WORLD IS TO HOSTILE.

WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IN IT, BECAUSE AS THE GERMAN PRESIDENT ONCE SAID, IN EUROPE, THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES, SMALL COUNTRIES THAT THEY KNOW THAT THEY ARE SMALL, AND SMALL COUNTRIES WHO DO NOT KNOW YET THAT THEY ARE SMALL.

I BELIEVE THEY ARE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THIS.

AS A RESULT OF IT, THE BIGGEST STORIES THAT WE DO NOT HAVE PARTIES --IT'S BASICALLY TO LEAVE OR DESTROY THE UNION BUT KEEP IN MIND, WHEN PARTIES LIKE THIS COMES TO POWER, QUITE OFTEN, AND HAS THE POLITICAL LOGIC OF IF I RAN A BANK.

IF I BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO BE READY TO INVEST IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, THEN I START HEDGING, EVEN IF I'M A EUROPEAN GOVERNMENT, I'M TRYING TO BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT IF SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG, I'M GOING TO BE IN A BETTER POSITION WHICH MEANS, I'M NOT GOING TO THINK IN THE COMMON EUROPEAN DEFENSE.

I'M GOING TO INVEST IN NATIONAL DEFENSE.

I'M TRYING BASICALLY TO FOCUS ON MY OWN INDUSTRY, AND THIS IS PART OF ALL OF THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK, WHY HAVE THEY BEEN SO CRITICAL, THE MESSAGE WAS, YOU NEVER TOOK CARE OF US, YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF FOREIGNERS, AND ARE THESE PEOPLE MORE VALUABLE TO YOU THAN US, WHY WE NEVER GET THIS OR THAT, IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, AND YOU CAN SEE IT ON MANY PLACES, AND FROM THIS POINT OF VIEW, LET'S PUT IT METAPHORICALLY, HOUSING, THEY FEEL HOMELESS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A PHYSICAL HOUSE, FOR THE RIGHT, THEY FEEL HOMELESS AND THEY LOST THE IDEA OF THEIR HOME, AND THE WAY THEY UNDERSTOOD IT.

TO ITS HOUSING AND HOMES, SO THIS IS WHERE WE ARE IN EUROPEAN POLITICS.

EVERYONE FEELS HOMELESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

>> IVAN KRASTEV, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

> >> NOW, A COMMUNITY IN BRUNEI, DATING BACK MORE THAN 600 YEARS, COULD BE A MODEL FOR HOW TO ADAPT TO THE WORLD'S CHANGING CLIMATE.

IT'S A WATER VILLAGE BUILT ENTIRELY ON STILTS.

KRISTI LOOSED OUT EXPLORES WHAT LIFE IS LIKE FOR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LIVING THERE.

>> THIS IS, THE WORLD'S LARGEST WATER VILLAGE.

BUILT ENTIRELY ON STILTS, THE SETTLEMENT IN BRUNEI'S CAPITAL, DATES BACK MORE THAN 600 YEARS.

TODAY, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CALL IT HOME.

>> WELCOME!

>> HIS FAMILY GREW UP ON THE WATER.

>> IF WE FALL, WE SWIM.

>> GETTING AROUND HERE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, THEY USE BOATS FOR TRANSPORT, BOARDWALKS FOR PASS AND EVEN SCHOOLS AND A LOCAL FIRE STATION ARE ON STILTS.

>> KEEP UP.

>> LIFE IN THIS FLOATING LABYRINTH MOVES AT A SLOWER PACE.

EACH OF THE 42 VILLAGES THAT MAKE UP THE AREA IS KNOWN FOR THEIR OWN HANDICRAFT.

>> WE HAVE ONE OF THE VILLAGES, THEY ARE KNOWN TO BE BOAT MAKERS, SOME ARE TRADITIONAL WEAVERS.

>> LIKE HERE IN THE VILLAGE, WHERE ANCIENT SKILLS ARE PASSED DOWN.

MANY RESIDENTS HAVE MOVED INLAND OVER THE YEARS, KAMPONG AYER REMAINS A SYMBOL OF NATIONAL PRIDE.

DOWNRIVER, HE RUNS A HOMESTAY DEDICATED TO PRESERVING THIS REGION, WITH THE HELP OF HIS MOTHER, WHO WAS BORN IN THE WATER VILLAGE.

>> I'M VERY PROUD TO BE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO STAY IN KAMPONG AYER, BECAUSE THE RELATIONSHIP IS VERY CLOSE.

I WANT MY CHILDREN, MY GRANDCHILDREN, MY NIECE AND NEPHEW , THEY STILL REMEMBERED KAMPONG AYER.

>> THROUGH FOOD AND ONLY TOUCHES, THEY ARE KEEPING LOCAL TRADITIONS ALIVE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE WANTED TO START WAS TO KIND OF SHARE OUR CULTURE AND HERITAGE.

WHEN GUESTS COME OVER, YOU SEE THE REMNANTS OF HISTORY AND FAMILIES WHO ARE STILL HERE AND THE CULTURE AND THE HERITAGE THAT STILL LIVES ON TO TODAY.

>> FINALLY, IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, ANOTHER SIGN OF HOW OCEAN CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

FOR THE FIRST TIME ON RECORD, AND ALL OF RIDLEY SEA TURTLE WAS SPOTTED LAYING IT'S EGGS NEAR SEAL BEACH, THEN, THREE DAYS LATER, A SECOND TURTLE PERHAPS THE SAME ONE, WAS SPOTTED LAYING HER EGGS NEAR HUNTINGTON BEACH, HERE.

SCIENTISTS SAY WHILE THERE ARE MANY FACTORS AT PLAY, THE HISTORIC SIGHTINGS ARE LIKELY LINKED TO ABNORMALLY WARM OCEAN WATERS BROUGHT ON BY EL NIÑO.

SEA TURTLES ARE PROTECTED UNDER THE U. S. ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

A LAW THAT IS ITSELF IN DANGER AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SCALES BACK REGULATIONS MEANT TO PROTECT WILDLIFE FROM HARM.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, JUST SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE, FROM THE UN.

AMANPOUR & CO.

IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT , JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW , KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

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THANK YOU.

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