Paid to Influence You? The Hidden World of Political Social Media Creators

>> NOW COULD CONTENT CREATORS BE CHANGING THE WAY YOU VOTE.

ACCORDING TO "THE NEW YORK TIMES," ACCOUNTS BE BEING PAID.

UNLIKE TYPICAL CELEBRITY INFLUENCERS, THE AIM IS NOT TO GO VIRAL.

INSTEAD AT A FRACTION OF THE COST THEY HOPE TO BOMBARD THE INTERNET TO THE POINT THAT THEY CAN SHIFT PUBLIC OPINION.

JOURNALIST KEN BENSINGER LED THE INVESTIGATION AND HE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> THANKS.

KEN BENSINGER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY, AN ARMY OF PAID CREATORS.

IS CARPETING THE WEB WITH POLITICAL CONTENT.

YOU WRITE, THESE HIGH VOLUME SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGNS REPRESENT THE NEW VANGUARD OF MODERN POLITICAL INFLUENCE SATURATING THE INTERNET WITH A TOPIC UNTIL IT IS ALL BUT INAVOIDABLE BUILT FROM DOZEN OR HUNDREDS OF POSTS FROM ACCOUNTS YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF.

THEY AMOUNT TO AN ECHO CHAMBER ON A BUDGET.

WHAT DID YOUR REPORTING FIND?

>> SO THIS IS SORT OF THE NEWEST ITERATION OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE WAY TO INFLUENCER VOTER BEHAVIOR AND POLITICAL OPINION AND AS YOU MENTIONED FOR A LONG TIME WE HAVE SEEN THIS -- THE IDEA THAT SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE USED TO HELP THAT.

BUT WHAT WE NORMALLY SEE ARE BIG FAMOUS INFLUENCERS BROUGHT IN TO BACK CANDIDATES OR PUSH IDEAS.

WHAT I DISCOVERED WAS THAT THERE IS THIS OTHER WAY THAT'S EMERGED AND IT'S AIDED BY TECHNOLOGY AND BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIAL MEDIA ALGORITHMS.

AND IT ENLISTS INSTEAD OF ONE OR TWO PROMINENT SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS DOZENS, HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF ACCOUNTS THAT WORK IN SYMPHONY IN A COORDINATED FASHION TO PUSH AN IDEA, A CANDIDATE, A POLITICAL MOVEMENT.

AND THEY DO IT INSTEAD OF SORT OF TRYING TO RE -- VIRALITY BY ONE ACCOUNT, THEY DO IT BY THE THEORY THAT YOU SORT OF SPRAY, YOU SORT OF IMAGINE LIKE CROP DUSTING OR SOMETHING WHERE YOU ARE SPRAYING IT OVER AS MUCH OF THE INTERNET AS YOU CAN THE SAME MESSAGE AND YOU CAN DO THAT ON THE CHEAP.

THE GOAL ISN'T NECESSARILY ANY OF THESE POSTS GO VIRAL, BUT THEY ARE SO PERVASIVE THAT THEY ARE SO EVERYWHERE, PEOPLE ARE BOUND TO SEE THEM IN THEIR FEEDS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS ANOTHER BENEFIT OF NOT COSTING NEARLY AS MUCH MONEY AS BIG INFLUENCERS.

THIS IS INCREASINGLY POPULAR IN THE POLITICAL WORD OF USING THIS APPROACH.

>> WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE MONEY.

BUT FIRST YOU BREAK THIS DOWN INTO A COUPLE OF CATEGORIES.

THERE IS THE USER GENERATED CONTENT, ME LOOKING AT MY PHONE, SAYING SOMETHING, MY OPINION, SHARING SOMETHING, RIGHT, AND YOU TALK ABOUT CLIPPING.

SOMEWHAT IS THIS INDUSTRY OF CLIPPING ABOUT?

HOW DOES IT WORK?

>> CLIPPING, YOU MENTIONED UGC, AS YOU DESCRIBED IT, CLIPPING IS I THINK WE ALMOST NEVER SEE THE CREATOR'S FACE OR THEIR IDENTITY.

INSTEAD, WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS THEY ARE LITERALLY MAKING CLIPS FROM EXISTING VIDEO THAT THEY ARE SUPPLIED WITH, FIND ON THEIR OWN AND TAKE FIVE MINUTES OR TWO MINUTES OR TWO HOURS AND CLIP IT INTO A 30 SECOND SOUND BITE OR MAKE STATIC POSTS JUST AN IMAGE SOMETIMES WITH TEXT ON IT OR MUSIC PLAYING OVER IT THAT MAKES A SINGLE POLITICAL POINT.

AND THAT CLIPPED IMAGE GOES UP ON THE INTERNET AND THEY MIGHT USE TEN DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS TO PUT UP THE SAME IMAGE OR SAME CLIP.

OTHER ACCOUNTS IN THE SAME PAID CAMPAIGN MIGHT EITHER USE IDENTICAL OR SIMILAR DLIPS BASED ON THE SAME SOURCE MATERIAL TO PUT IT OUT THERE.

AND SO SOMETIMES THEY ARE ORGANIZED, SOMETIMES IT'S COORDINATE AND AND THERE MIGHT BE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF POSTS THIS CLIPPING CAMPAIGN THAT'S ORGANIZED BY A COMPANY THAT SPECIALIZES IN CLIPPING AND THEY RACK THIS AND SOMETIMES USE AI TO IDENTIFY AND PAY THE PEOPLE FOR THE POSTS THEY ARE MAKING.

>> IF THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT ARE DOING THIS AND ENGAGING IN THIS, THEY MUST BE ABLE TO SELL AN IDEA OR A VALUE PROPOSITION, SAY YOU OR I ARE IN A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST US TO GET A BIG INFLUENCER TO SORT OF SAY WHATEVER IT IS WE WANT THEM TO SAY VERSUS HAVING A CLIPPING, YOU KNOW, TROVE OF PEOPLE DO THIS OR NO NAME PEOPLE SPREAD OUR MESSAGE?

IS IT VALUABLE?

>> I THINK THAT'S GOOD AND GROWING BODY OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST IT IS A BETTER OR AT LEAST AS GOOD MELANIA TRUMP YOU HAD AS HIRING THE BIG INFLUENCER.

ONE EXAMPLE WOULD BE SOME OF THE STUFF WE SAW IN THE CAMPAIGNS IN THE PRIMARIES THIS YEAR.

WE SAW FOR EXAMPLE TOM STEYER RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA WAS PAYING INFLUENCERS A TON OF MONEY AND IT WAS ONE INSTANCE HE PAID AN INFLUENCER $400,000 WHICH IS A TON TO PUT UP A BUNCH OF POSTS.

HE PAID ANOTHER INFLUENCER $25,000 TO PRODUCE A SINGLE POST AND THAT POST GOT SOMETHING LIKE 5,000 OR 10,000 COMMENTS ON IT OR LIKES, RIGHT.

BUT THEN ANOTHER PERSON RUNNING IN CALIFORNIA SPENCER PRATT WHO RAN FOR MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, HE HAD A CLIPPING COMPANY AND HE PAID $30,000 FOR A CLIPPING CAMPAIGN AND THAT CAMPAIGN ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY THAT DID THE CLIPPING GENERATED 50 MILLION PIECES OF ENGAGEMENT FOR HIM.

>> WOW.

>> IT'S A MUCH LARGER SCALE AND A SMALLER AMOUNT OF MONEY.

AND ALSO THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF THIS, WHICH IS THAT THERE IS THIS THING THAT PEOPLE WANT NOW, THIS AUTHENTICITY FEELING.

OBVIOUSLY, NONE OF THIS AUTHENTIC.

IT'S COORDINATED AND PLANNED.

BUT WHEN YOU SEE A FANCY INFLUENCER WHO YOU KNOW BECAUSE THEY DO TRAVEL OR SOMETHING OR THEY DO BEAUTILY SAY I REALLY LOVE THIS CANDIDATE, THAT CAN OFTEN HAVE THE SMELL OF INAUTHENTICITY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT POLITICS AND SUDDENLY THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT POLITICS N CALIFORNIA THEY HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT.

USUALLY THEY DON'T.

EVEN STILL IT DOESN'T SMELL QUITE RIGHT.

BUT A BUNCH OF NO NAMES SAYING THEY LIKE THAT CANDIDATE OR PUTTING UP POSTS SAYING THAT CANDIDATE GREAT CAN MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS REAL, MAKE THAT PERSON JUST GENUINELY LIKES THE CANDIDATE.

WHY WOULD A PERSON WITH A COUPLE HUNDRED FOLLOWERS SPEND THEIR TIME BOOSTING SOMEBODY?

IT SEEMS TO PASS THE SMELL TEST EVEN THOUGH IT PROBABLY SHOULDN'T.

>> TELL ME WHY, IF YOU OR I WERE PAYING AN INFLUENCER OR A PERSON TO PUSH A PRODUCT TECHNICALLY SOME OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE WORD ADVERTISEMENT ON IT.

BUT IF IT'S POLITICAL SPEECH, THAT DOESN'T APPLY?

>> YEAH, IT'S "A STRANGE LOOP" HOLE IN THE WAY THIS STUFF IS REGULATED.

YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT.

SO THERE ARE TWO AGENCY FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT PLAY -- REGULATE THIS AND NEITHER DO.

ONE IS THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION AND IT'S THE ONE THAT SAYS IF YOU PROMOTE TOOTHPASTE OR A SUPPLEMENT OR MOVIE OR ANYTHING ON SOCIAL MEDIA FOR MONEY, YOU HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT.

THAT'S A PAID AD.

AND THEY ARE THE AGENCY IN CHARGE OF THAT.

THEY HAVE A SPECIFIC EXEMPTION FOR POLITICAL SPEECH, THEY SAY THEY DON'T REGULATE POLITICAL SPEECH AND DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE MAKING POLITICAL POINTS TO FOLLOW FTC RULES OF DISCLOSURE.

THE OTHER AGENCY THE FEDERAL COLLECTION COMMISSION REGULATES POLITICAL STUFF AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE A TV AD OR RADIO SPOT OR BILLBOARD YOU SEE THAT FINE PRINT ON THE BOTTOM THAT SAYS PAID FOR BY CANDIDATE XYZ.

THEY DON'T SAY THAT AND DON'T HAVE SUCH A ROLE WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS TO PASS LAWS AND REGULATIONS WITHIN THE FTC THAT WOULD REGULATE THAT KIND OF SPEECH AND REQUIRE THOSE KINDS OF DISCLOSURES ON SOCIAL MEDIA BUT THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN COME UP FOR PUBLIC REVIEW LET ALONE A VOTE.

SO NOTHING EVER HAPPENED.

I THINK IT'S WORD ADDING THERE IS NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME A BILL IN CONGRESS THAT IS BOTH IN THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE THAT WOULD FOR THE FIRST TIME MANDATE THAT THESE THINGS BE DISCLOSED.

WE WILL SEE WHETHER CONGRESS IS WILLING TO PASS THAT.

BUT THERE IS LEGISLATION ON THE TABLE TO ADDRESS THE LOOPHOLE.

>> GIVE MEAN IDEA OF WHAT THESE ADS ARE LIKE BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE REPORTING IS THAT YOU MAY NOT KNOW AT ALL THAT THERE IS A SPECIFIC CANDIDATE INVOLVED.

THEY ARE NOT SAYING VOTE FOR THIS PERSON, THIS OTHER PERSON IS HORRIBLE, RIGHT?

WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO AND HOW IS IT BENEFICIAL?

>> WHEN YOU BOMBARD SOCIAL MEDIA WITH A POINT OF VIEW OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IT BEGINS TO SEEM NORMAL, NORMALIZED AND THEN BECOMES CLOSER TO THE CENTER OF CONVERSATION.

AND SO THESE KIND OF CLIPPING AND UGC CAMPAIGNS ARE REALLY GOOD AT GETTING MORE AND MORE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THINGS THEY HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT, THINK THEY ARE NORMAL AND TO INTERNALIZE THEM IN A SUBTLE KIND OF SUBLIMINAL FASHION.

IT ALSO IS REALLY GOOD AT GENERATING MEDIA COVERAGE.

IT'S ENOUGH --IF ENOUGH POSTS ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THEN ALMOST INEVITABLY THE MEDIA WILL TALK ABOUT IT AS WELL WHICH AGAIN UNDERSCORES THE IDEA IS IT NORMALIZED.

IT'S NOT A FRINGE THING, IT'S NORMAL.

SO ON THE LEFT, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS A TON OF PAID POSTINGS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.

>> THIS WHY EVERYTHING FEELS SO MUCH HARDER TO AFFORD RIGHT NOW.

IT'S NOT LIKE ONE BILL WENT UP BY $500.

IT'S $20 MORE HERE, $10 MORE THERE.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES BELIEVE THAT AFFORDABILITY IS A WINNING ISSUE FOR THEM IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS COMING UP AND THEY WANT PEOPLE OUT THERE THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH EVERYTHING COSTS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE WHEN MEME THINK GAS IS TOO EXPENSIVE OR EGGS OR HOUSING IS TOO EXPENSIVE, THEY ARE LIKELY TO VOTE FOR CHANGE, VOTE AGAINST THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND FOR DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CHANGE WHO IS IN POWER.

YOU WILL SEE INFLUENCERS ONLINE IN CLIPS AND IN DIRECT AND CAMERA VIDEOS COMPLAINING OUR EXPENSIVE THINGS ARE WITHOUT MENTIONING A CANDIDATE OR RACE.

ON THE ITEM YOU SEE SIMILAR THINGS U WILL SEE GROUPS PUSHING FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, SUPPORT OF THE WAR IN IRAN BECAUSE THEY WILL EMPHASIZE BAD THINGS ABOUT IRAN.

YOU WILL SEE I HAVE SEEN CLIPPING CAMPAIGNS SUPPORTING REPUBLICANS EN MASSE BY BEING TOLD PUT OUT ANYTHING THAT IS CRITICAL OF DEMOCRATS AND THEY JUST ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO THINK DEMOCRATS ARE BAD AT LARGE.

SO THAT'S THE KIND OF WAY THESE RACES --THESE PARTICULAR CAMPAIGNS ARE BEING ORGANIZED IS JUST TO GET PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT A THEME OR TOPIC.

>> WHEN YOU TRIED TO VERIFY THE IDENTITIES OF SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BEHIND THESE CAMPAIGNS, WHAT DID YOU YOU FIND?

>> THEY ARE HARD TO TRACK DOWN.

THEY ARE BURIED DEEP BENEATH LAYERS OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE STATEMENTS THAT MAKE IT ALMOST IM POSSIBLE TO SEE WHO IS PAYING FOR THEM OR PAID BY ADVOCACY GROUPS THAT DON'T HAVE TO REPORT PUBLICLY THESE EXPENDITURES.

WE FOUND SOME INSTANCES OF -- THE MAIN WAY IS BY GOING THROUGH THE ONLINE MARKETPLACES.

MARKETPLACE ON THE INTERNET AND ON PLACES LIKE DISCORD YOU CAN ACTUALLY ESSENTIALLY TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE A CREATOR AND LOOK AT WHAT JOBS ARE AVAILABLE AND THERE ARE MARKETPLACES WITH LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF LISTINGS FOR PAID OPPORTUNITIES AS CREATORS TO CREATE CONTENT AND MOST OF IT IS COMMERCIAL BUT SOME IS POLITICAL IN NATURE.

SO WE FOUND, FOR EXAMPLE, CAMPAIGNS AGAINST AI DATA CENTERS.

WE ALSO FOUND CAMPAIGNS FOR AI DATA CENTERS.

WE FOUND CAMPAIGNS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING.

WE FOUND OTHER CAMPAIGNS THAT APPEAR TO BE PAID FOR BY UTILITY COMPANIES THAT ARE UNDER THEIR --SORT OF DOWNPLAYING THE CONCERNS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING.

WE FOUND CAMPAIGNS HAVING TO DO WITH ABORTION RIGHTS AND OTHER CAMPAIGNS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PRO- LIFE SIDE OF THINGS AS WELL WHEN THE QUESTION OF WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S EXECUTIVE ORDER ABOUT MAIL-IN BALLOTS WAS GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY THE ELECTION WAS HELD, INSTANTLY POPPED UP CAMPAIGNS TRYING TO PAY PEOPLE TO GO OUT THERE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE LOVE VOTING BY MAIL, IT'S A GOOD THING.

THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE IT DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTION PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY JUST SAY VOTING BY MAIL IS A GREAT THING AND IT'S GREAT FOR VETERANS.

WE FOUND TONS OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND SOMETIMES THEY MENTION SPECIFIC GROUPS THAT ARE FUNDING IT.

MOST OF THE TIMES THEY DO NOT.

>> WHAT IS AN AD LOOK LIKE IF YOU ARE SOMEBODY TRYING TO MAKE AN EXTRA FEW BUCKS AND YOU ARE WILLING TO DO WHATEVER, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING YOU TO DO?

>> SOME ARE EXTREMELY SPECIFIC AND SOME ARE PRETTY VAGUE.

YOU KNOW, OFTEN YOU WILL SEE IF YOU ENTER ONE OF THESE ADS OR JOB OPPORTUNITIES THEY WILL HAVE A THING CAUGHT CREATOR BRIEF.

IT'S LIKE A INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR THE CAMPAIGN.

HERE IS THE GOAL OF THIS CAMPAIGN.

HERE IS WHAT WE WANT --WHAT WE WANT YOU TO SAY.

HERE IS WHAT YOU SHOULDN'T SAY.

HERE IS ALL THE MATERIAL YOU CAN USE TO INCORPORATE INTO THE POSTS YOU PUT UP.

SOME OF THEM SAY WE WANT YOU TO USE YOUR ACCOUNT AND HIT YOUR OWN FOLLOWERS.

OTHERS EXPLICITLY SAY CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT AND HERE IS HOW WE WANT YOU TO WARM IT UP TO HIT THE RIGHT PLACE IN THE ALGORITHM AND GET THE RIGHT FOLLOWERS AND RIGHT PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

THEY CAN BE VERY EXPLICIT THAT WAY.

ONE WAS SPECIFICALLY THAT, PUT TOGETHER BY A PROGRESSIVE GROUP THAT IS REALLY FOCUSED ON SORT OF THEY CALL IT --THEY SAY THEY ARE TRYING TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE RIGHT WING ECHO CHAMBER BY CREATING A LEFT WING ECHO CHAMBER AND INSTRUCTIONS HOW TO CREATE ACCOUNTS THEY SAID GAME --I THINK THE QUOTE WAS GAME THE ALGORITHM TO HIT THE MOST POSSIBLE PEOPLE.

ONE THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT WAS INTERESTING THEY WERE TELLING PEOPLE TO BEFORE THEY EVEN MADE ANY POSTS FOR THE NEW ACCOUNT GO FIND A PROGRESSIVE LEFT WING ACCOUNT THAT THEY LIKED, GO ON THEM AND HIT THE LIKE BUTTON AND LEAVE COMMENTS ON THOSE AND BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD ALREADY TEACH THE ALGORITHM THIS NEW ACCOUNT WAS OF A CERTAIN ILK AND WHEN THEY PUT A POST IT WOULD DIRECT THEIR POSTS TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

>> IS IT LUCRATIVE?

>> I THINK IT CAN BE.

WE HAVE SEEN CASES OF INDIVIDUAL CREATORS MAKING $100,000 BY DOING MULTIPLE CAMPAIGNS.

A LOT OF TIMES THE INDIVIDUAL CAMPAIGNS ARE CAPPED.

SO YOU WILL --YOU CAN MAKE MONEY QUICKLY BUT YOU HIT A $1,500 OR $3,000 OR $5,000 CAP AND THEN THAT ACCOUNT CAN'T MAKE ANY MORE MONEY.

THE SOLUTION IS EITHER TO HIT THAT AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT CAMPAIGN OR TO CREATE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS AND HOPE TO HIT THE CAP IN EACH OF THEM.

I THINK SOME PEOPLE REALLY MAKE LOFT MONEY OFF OF THIS BY DOING MANY, MANY, MANY CAMPAIGNS AT ONCE USING MANY, MANY ACCOUNTS.

YOU COULD MADGE AN PER PERSON AT THEIR DESK RUNNING 20 DIFFERENT THINGS AT ONCE URNLTS ALSO IN YOUR REPORTING POINT OUT CREATORS PRESENTING THEMSELVES AS BEING FROM ONE PLACE WHEN THEY ARE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE IN IT FOR THE DOLLARS, NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE TRUTH.

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

IF A CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT --WE HAD AN EXAMPLE ABOUT AFFORDABILITIABILITY IN TEXAS AND YOU'RE A CONTENT CREATOR AND YOU WANT TO MAKE $1,500, $2,000, $3,000, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, YOU DON'T LIVE IN TEXAS, OFTEN THERE IS NOT REAL VET TO GO FIND OUT WHETHER YOU ARE IN TEXAS.

YOU CAN PRESENT YOURSELF AND SAY, YES, I AM FROM TEXAS AND DO A VIDEO SITTING YOUR CAR OR A CLIPPING CAMPAIGN WHERE THEY CAN'T SEE YOU CLAIMING YOU ARE FROM TEXAS AND PUT IT OUT THERE.

IT'S NOT AUTHENTIC, IT'S NOT ACCURATE AND HONEST, BUT THERE ARE VERY FEW CONTROLS TO PREVENT THAT.

I AM SIT HEARING RIGHT NOW IN NEW YORK CITY.

I COULD SAY I AM FROM OKLAHOMA OR SOMETHING AND LITTLE PEOPLE WOULDN'T KNOW.

THE NEXT LEVEL IS THAT THE PERSON MAY NOT EVEN BE IN THE U. S. , CAMPAIGN MAY BE ABOUT THE U. S. , BUT THE PERSON DOING IT MIGHT BE IN NIGERIA OR IN THE PHILIPPINES OR KIND OF ANYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD.

>> IF TAKES "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTERS SOME TIME AND EFFORT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S REAL AND WHAT'S NOT, WHAT IS THE END USER SUPPOSED TO DO?

>> WE CAN HOPE THE END USER IS SOMEWHAT AWARE THIS IS A THING AND THIS IS OUT THERE AND THEY SHOULD BE SKEPTICAL ABOUT WHAT THEY SEE ON THE INTERNET, NOT JUST BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT FLASHES ACROSS THEIR SCREEN AS THEY ARE SCROLLING.

BUT THERE IS NOT A LOT OF TOOLS AVAILABLE TO THE END USER TO PROVE TO ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, RIGHT.

IF A DARK MONEY GROUP OR A CHARITY THAT'S NOT PAYING FOR --EXCUSE ME, 501(C)(3) NOT PAYING FOR SPECIFIC ACTION WANTS TO PUSH SOMETHING, THEY NOT GOING TO BE REGULATED, NOT RULES ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY, AND THE PUBLIC IS STILL -- WILL NEVER KNOW THAT'S ACTUALLY JUST AN INFLUENCER CAMPAIGN RATHER THAN SOMEONE'S LEGITIMATE OPINION.

>> CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS HAVE TRIED AND THEY HAVE SOME STATE LEVEL RULES.

I MEAN, ARE THOSE ENOUGH IN TERMS OF PROTECTION OR, I MEAN, INTERNET GOES ACROSS STATE LINES, SO DOES THIS REALLY MATTER?

>> IT'S A GOOD START.

CALIFORNIA JUST BEEFED UP ITS RULES A LITTLE BIT MORE.

GOVERNOR NEWSOM UP I GUESS IN SEPTEMBER, HE SIGNED A LAW THAT WOULD PENALIZE INFLUENCERS AND NOT JUST CAMPAIGNS FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE STATE'S RULES ABOUT DISCLOSURE.

SO NOW INFLUENCERS IF THEY DON'T PROPERLY DISCLOSE PAID POSTS WILL PAY FINES UP TO $5,000 PER POST AND THEY COULD IN THEORY BE PROSECUTED FOR MISDEMEANORS AND PAY MUCH LARGER FINES.

SO THAT'S TEETH WHICH DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE AND THERE IS THE HOPE AMONG THOSE BEHIND IT THAT THE FEAR OF THAT KIND OF RETRIBUTION WILL CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR.

BUT YOU RAISE A GOOD POINT WHICH IS IT'S ONLY ONE STATE OUT OF 50.

SECONDS, IT'S BLURRY REALLY QUICK.

IF THE INFLUENCER IS IN, YOU KNOW, OHIO AND THEY ARE MAKING POSTS ABOUT CALIFORNIA ARE THEY AWARE OF THE LAW?

WILL CALIFORNIA BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT WHEN THE PERSON IS OUT OF THE STATE?

IT'S UNTESTED AND NOT VERY CLEAR.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.

AND FEDERAL RULE WOULD ALSO HELP A LOT BUT WOULDN'T RESOLVE COMPLETELY BECAUSE THE CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS LAW ONLY APPLY TO CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS STATE RACES.

A FEDERAL LAW WOULDN'T APPLY F THERE IS A GOVERNOR RACE SOMEWHERE, UNLESS THAT STATE HAS A RULE, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ANYTHING TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HIDING THE FACT THAT THEY ARE PAID.

>> INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" KEN BENSINGER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> A GREAT PLEASURE, THANK YOU.

VERY MUCH.