Imara Jones on Combating Anti-Trans Legislation and Uplifting Trans Voices

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Now, standing up for the marginalized comes, of course, in many shapes and sizes. The last few years have seen record waves of legislation targeting the rights of transgender people. And next term, the Supreme Court will decide whether states can restrict gender-affirming care. But award-winning journalist Imara Jones has made it her mission to fight the narrative that disempowers the trans community. And she joins Hari Sreenivasan now to discuss her new documentary series, “American Problems, Trans Solutions.”

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HARI SREENIVASAN, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Imara Jones of TransLash Media, thanks so much for joining us. You know, I kind of want to do a little bit of an update. You know, last year you joined us on the program. We talked a little bit about the different types of legislation working their way through different states in America, or I should say the legislation is focused against LGBTQ people. And I’m wondering, can you kind of update us on what the progress has been, what the landscape is across the country now?

IMARA JONES, FOUNDER, TRANSLASH MEDIA: Yes. And I think that the interesting part of this story is the way in which most of these laws are targeted at trans people specifically. And while there are fewer than passed last year, that’s for two main reasons, Hari. The first is that roughly now, half the states in the United States have some sort of anti- trans legislation on the books, either sports or medical care or some other aspect. So, that first wave of bills has been largely, sadly successful. And so, what’s happening now is what? I’ve seen in my reporting on this over the last five years is that there’s some years that there’s experimentation on new types of laws. And we’re seeing that this year, such as a law in Tennessee, which criminalizes parents or caretakers who wish to provide gender-affirming care for their teens outside of the state. They now can face criminal liability from the state, or the fact that even in Missouri, for example, you know, chosen names and also preferred pronouns, even if parents consent to that, schools are not allowed to recognize either of those. And if a school individual does, they can be prosecuted as a felon and made to be put on the sex registry list and then lose their license. So, I think what we’re seeing is the laws being more insidious. And there’s even another one in Florida that also allows for the transfer of custody in cases where there is one parent who is trans affirming, the other one is not, it can be the basis to transfer custody of the kid to the parent who is not trans supporting, and that even applies for people visiting outside of the state. So, the laws are getting more invasive in the most intimate and sacred of relationships.

SREENIVASAN: So, Imara, according to the dashboard that you have on your website, I’m reading that 604 anti-LGBTQ bills were proposed in 2024, but only 42 have passed. So, are we making a mountain out of a molehill, or should we be thinking about this differently?

JONES: I wish it was making a mountain out of a molehill. It would make this pride season so much easier and more festive. But I think that we have to understand that the volume of the bills actually underscores where the momentum is. And usually what I have seen from my reporting on this is that you’ll have certain years where there seem to be less bills that are passing. But what’s actually happening is an experimentation about the types of bills that will become the models for the surge and subsequent years, the surge and passage. The entire point is to acculturate us to these laws. So, at first, people will be shocked at some of the things that I’ve said, but two or three years from now, if they keep hearing about it, it won’t seem to be as shocking. And therefore, increases the likelihood of passage. And I have heard and I have had state legislators tell me directly that that is what they want. You know, they understand that sort of slowly turning up the temperature over time makes the frog in the analogy not jump out of the water. And that’s exactly what they’re doing with these bills. And, you know, like I said, half the states now have them. Additionally, a part of this acculturation and the passage is so that these issues will rise to the Supreme Court. Barbara Ehardt, who is the state legislator from Idaho who introduced the first successful anti-trans sports bill, that’s become the model for all of the others, said to me clearly that she knew that this issue was going to go before the Supreme Court and that was her goal because there was a receptive — in her view, receptive court for these types of laws in this type of legislation.

SREENIVASAN: You know, Imara, when you talk to people that are drafting these types of legislation, what is their core concern or belief? Is it a — do they feel threatened by something? Is this a religious motivation? Why are these bills coming up?

JONES: They don’t believe that trans people are real. And specifically, they don’t believe that trans kids are a fact. And consequently, their point of view is that there must be something unnatural and harmful that is making kids be trans and making adults be trans. And so, for them, whatever that force is, and I’ve heard them describe it in various types of ways, some say it’s the culture, some say that it’s schools, some say it’s a part of an international conspiracy to undermine America, and they say that with the great — you know, great knowing inside of themselves. They then believe that these types of laws, no matter how harsh, no matter how disruptive are justified.

SREENIVASAN: You know, when you mentioned the Supreme Court, I mean, the very act of choosing to hear a case is in itself an inkling of where the court is, right? I mean, you have to have at least five justices agreed to hear it. And there’s an important case that is making its way or will make its way to the next Supreme Court. Tell us a little bit about that.

JONES: Yes, it’s a case in Tennessee, which argues that trans kids shouldn’t have access to gender-affirming care. And gender-affirming care, for most kids, basically means — I mean, who are under the age of 16, it basically means access to therapy and therapist and the ability to be able to be called by their preferred pronouns and their chosen names, right? That is affirming the gender. But as these kids get older, there may be other types of things that a combination of their doctor, their therapist, and their parents all in agreement say are the right way forward. And by the way, surgery is not one of them. That’s just a trope. It’s — it doesn’t — it essentially doesn’t happen. And so, this bill in Tennessee says that none of that can’t happen, right? That you cannot provide gender-affirming care to kids. And Tennessee is a place where a gender-affirming center at Vanderbilt was closed due to bomb threats and all types of other threats and protests, where in very — in eerie echoes to the abortion movement, what this case possibly could mean if the ruling goes against gender-affirming care, it means that the Supreme Court likely is going to have to make a defining ruling between the difference between biological sex and gender and say that gender is not protected under the constitution. And that, in one fell swoop, could mean that trans protections at the federal level and possibly at the state level, could be ruled unconstitutional. And so, any of the gains that trans people have made, minor gains that are already under assault, could be wiped away. And then, there are larger implications for everyone in terms of gender-affirming care and all the rest of it.

SREENIVASAN: Can we talk a little bit about how the climate of legislation or pending legislation here in the United States is affecting things around the world? I mean, we — one of our most successful exports in America is culture, right? And how is this affecting what happens in Europe or in Africa or anywhere else?

JONES: Yes, I think that one of the things that we have to understand is that one of the things that we are exporting is essentially legislative transphobia in a can. And the reason why that is the case is because the organizations in the United States, such as the Alliance Defending Freedom, are global in nature as well. They have chapters in the United Kingdom and in Hungary and elsewhere. And one of the things that is emerging, for example, and I’ve heard people who are in the trans community in France, tell me that increasingly they are seeing the exact same rhetoric and the exact same approach that’s used in the United States now be picked up by far-right French politicians in a way that did not exist two years ago, for example. And so much so that there was actually a nationwide protest in every single department in France last month by trans people to underscore the — their visibility and their essential need for rights. The other thing that we need to understand is that in other places, such as Africa, a lot of the anti-LGBTQ legislation there is also supported by religious institutions in the United States who are sending know-how and talking points and even cash to help generate support amongst legislators, in Ghana, for example. So, we have to understand that what is happening here is changing and toxifying the climate around the world. And it’s something that I don’t think that we pay enough attention to.

SREENIVASAN: Is there a crossover or an overlap between where this becomes more successful and the type of regimes or governments that are in power?

JONES: I mean, we see that the most anti-trans governments around the world are usually on the right and the far-right. For example, when Vladimir Putin makes speeches about Ukraine, he goes out of his way to a devote part of the talk of rallying the nation to talk about trans people and to talk about gender. The same is true for President Xi in China, who also, you know, goes after what he says are girly men in China, and that they are bringing down the Chinese state, and that people need to act in a more masculine way. And we also have to say that the anti-trans push in the United States began legislatively and administratively during the Trump administration. And we have a political party in the United States now, which is devotedly anti- trans. Every single major Republican candidate made being anti-trans one of the top four reasons and rationales for their presidency, and that’s now true for Donald Trump.

SREENIVASAN: I want to shift a little bit towards solutions. And I wonder, you know, look, if there is a kind of rubber stamp machine that can crank out legislation, anti-LGBTQ legislation in a can, if you will, and export it overseas or go from state to state, is there any sort of a counter to that? Are there states or municipalities that have codified protections for different groups that are also kind of sharing the Google doc, if you will, and saying, hey, here’s a way that you can — here’s something you can propose to your electorate?

JONES: That’s right. I mean, there are states that are doing that. And it’s a part of, you know, what you may think of as the usual suspects. So, Maryland has declared itself as a sanctuary state for trans people. Minnesota has declared itself, through legislation, a sanctuary for trans people. That is to say, you can come here and be treated equally, have access to healthcare, et cetera. The same also happened in San Francisco, and there are pushes to do that in even more places. And so, I think that we are seeing that pushback. But I think that it’s also with a hint of sadness, because people deserve to live in places that they call home and you shouldn’t have to be turned into a political refugee in the United States because your local state legislature has decided that you shouldn’t have equal access to health care or equal rights or share in the public space like everyone else. And so, while those are hopeful signs, we also have to understand the pain of people who — literally, I have talked to parents who are staring up at the ceiling at night, wondering if it’s time for them to move their entire family to another state when they they’ve lived, for instance, in Texas for five generations.

SREENIVASAN: Speaking of solutions, you’re the creator of TransLash Media. And there is a new documentary that’s going to be on public television stations around the country this week. And it’s called “American Problems, Trans Solutions.” And you looked at a few different characters and kind of the innovative solutions that they’re bringing in their own communities. Tell us a little bit about the characters you spoke to.

JONES: Yes, they’re amazing. I mean, they’re a part of the hope that you were talking about. You know, they’re the lights in this moment. There are three powerful people Oluchi Omeoga, who is of Nigerian descent, immigrated to this country from Igboland, his entire family who’s working on issues of migration.

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OLUCHI OMEOGA: When I look back on my life, I really want to say, we shifted how people see black trans people, how people see migrant folks.

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JONES: We have Kayla Gore from Memphis, who has an entire innovative program to turn people who were homeless into homeowners by building and then gifting tiny houses to trans people, immediately giving them an access to housing and economic opportunity.

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KAYLA GORE, CO-FOUNDER, MY SISTAH’S HOUSE: Home for me means safety, security. It means stability. It means comfort. Growing up, that wasn’t even a question of I would have a place to, like, lay my head. Becoming an adult, I start to face realities of people not liking how I present in the world. And that prevented me from having housing.

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JONES: And lastly, Breonna McCree, who is in San Francisco, who, through The Transgender District there, has an incubator program for trans entrepreneurs, where once you go through this program, you get $10,000 to start your business in a way to try to avoid the discrimination and the need to do things like engage in sex work, if that’s not something that you want to do, because you’re able to innovate and have that funded and financed.

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JONES: There seemed to be some new buildings, like there’s a new hotel, damn. And I was like, is there a gentrification creeping into this area?

BREONNA MCCREE, CO-EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE TRANSGENDER DISTRICT: Gentrification is always creeping in San Francisco. But we are trying to get city officials also to give our folks some of that money —

JONES: Right, right.

MCCREE: — through grants so they can own storefronts also. Why not help the trans district support folks in that effort.

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JONES: So, I think these are all really powerful examples. And what really drew me to them is that they’re not only examples for the trans community, but perhaps for the entire country, and in many ways, the world. I mean, finding ways to provide economic opportunity through entrepreneurship grants and training, gifting houses, humane migration. I mean, those are all things that not only are needed by trans people, people in the United States, but also people around the world.

SREENIVASAN: Draw that kind of connection, if you will, between the climate that we are seeing today and the work that these individuals are spearheading right now.

JONES: I think that, for me, the connection is that when things fail for you and when society fundamentally is not allowing you to participate, it allows you to see the things that are the impediments that aren’t working. And then, if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, to find ways to try to innovate around those. And I find what’s fascinating is that these are some of the most marginalized people in the country and all of their stories have extreme moments of pain and disenfranchisement. And at the same time, they have decided to not only try to innovate around the experiences that they had, but also to do so in a way that allows other people to not have to go through that and not only to survive and thrive. And I just think that that’s such a powerful and hopeful story about how we can transform darkness and pain into ways to uplift everyone.

SREENIVASAN: The documentary is called “American Problems, Trans Solutions.” Imara Jones of TransLash Media, thanks so much for joining us.

JONES: Thank you so much. Great to see you.