Joe Manchin on Gov’t Shutdown, Trump and “Deafening” Silence of GOP

> >> SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN TOLD US EARLIER WHY SHE'S NOT SEEKING RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR.

WELL, JOE MANCHIN IS ALREADY ON THE OTHER SIDE, HAVING RETIRED FROM THE SENATE AFTER ABOUT 14 YEARS.

HE LONG WALKED DOWN THE CENTER OF THE AISLE, SO TO SPEAK, AS A DEMOCRAT FROM THE RED STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA, EVEN BECOMING AN INDEPENDENT AT THE TAIL END OF HIS SENATE CAREER.

NOW HE'S FLIRTING WITH A WHITE HOUSE RUN.

HIS NEW BOOK IS CALLED "DEAD CENTER" AND HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO TALK ABOUT POLARIZATION AND THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

AND JOE MANCHIN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> WALTER, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I APPRECIATE BEING WITH YOU.

>> WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF YET AGAIN ANOTHER BIG GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN STRUGGLE GOING ON OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS.

TELL ME, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE STILL IN THE SENATE RIGHT NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS FUNNY, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT JUST TODAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS, I WOULD HAVE BEEN GATHERING UP WHATEVER REPUBLICANS I COULD AND WHATEVER DEMOCRATS I COULD AND START MEETING LIKE WE ALWAYS DID WHEN WE KNEW THAT THE LEADERSHIP GOT TO AN IMPASSE.

WHEN WE KNEW THEY WERE PLAYING POLITICS, THEY WERE BEING PRESSURED FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, OR FROM THEIR BASE, WE GOT TOGETHER.

WE COULD ALWAYS GET ABOUT EIGHT OF US, FOUR Ds AND FOUR Rs.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE STILL THERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THERE IS A MINDSET STILL THERE, BUT GET TOGETHER AND THEN COME UP WITH WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS REASONABLE, THAT WE COULD AGREE ON AND WE COULD SELL IT TO OUR BASES, OUR CAUCUSES.

AND THEN GO INTO THE LEADERSHIP WITH BOTH JOHN THUNE, A GOOD PERSON, GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, AND CHUCK SCHUMER WHO I CAN TALK TO AND ALWAYS HAVE.

WE HAVE OUR DIFFERENCES, WE ALL DO, BUT THIS IS NOT A TIME TO SHUT GOVERNMENT DOWN.

THERE IS NEVER A TIME TO ADMIT YOU COULDN'T DO YOUR JOB.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING WHEN YOU SHUT DOWN.

>> YEAH, YOU TALK ABOUT THESE GANGS OF EIGHT OR GANGS OF TEN OR SO WHERE YOU HAVE FOUR OR FIVE FROM EACH SIDE AND DO IT IN THE MIDDLE.

USED TO DO THAT A WHOLE LOT.

HOW COME THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE NOW?

WHY IS IT THAT THE SENATE, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO DO SUCH THINGS, YOU CAN'T EVEN FIND TEN, 12 PEOPLE TO SAY WE WILL BE THE CENTER AND WE WILL HOLD IT TOGETHER.

>> I LIKE TO THINK THEY'RE STILL THERE, THEY'RE STILL MY FRIENDS AND I KNOW THEM VERY WELL.

I TALK TO AS MANY AS I CAN.

BUT THE PUSH FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE DOMINANCE THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS OVER THE PARTY AND OVER THE CAUCUSES, NOTHING LIKE THAT HAS EVER BEEN KNOWN OR SEEN BEFORE.

HE MAKES --HE DOESN'T CAMOUFLAGE ANYTHING.

WHEN HE'S UPSET, WHEN HE'S AGAINST YOU, HE WANTS YOU OUT, HE'LL BE FIGHTING AGAINST YOU, THIS AND THAT.

AND WHOEVER THE PRESIDENT IS, THE FORMER SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA, WHO PASSED AWAY AND I REPLACED, HE ALWAYS TOLD ME, HE SAYS, MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO YOU, I HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR A PRESIDENT, NOR WILL I EVER WORK FOR A PRESIDENT.

I WORK TO UPHOLD MY OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION AND TO THE PEOPLE FROM OUR GREAT STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA AND THAT'S IT.

BUT DO IT WITH A TEAR IN YOUR EYE AND DO IT RESPECTFULLY AND I ALWAYS ADHERED TO THAT.

SO I'M SAYING THAT OUR REPUBLICAN FRIENDS AND LEADERSHIP HAVE TO SAY, MR.

PRESIDENT, I'M SORRY, DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

REMEMBER WHEN HE AND MR.

McCONNELL FELL OUT PRETTY BAD IN HIS FIRST TERM?

IT WAS OVER TRYING TO --HEY, I GOT 54 REPUBLICANS, GIVE ME WHAT I NEED.

AND THEY SAID, MR.

PRESIDENT, DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

TRIED TO EXPLAIN.

HE GOT VERY UPSET ABOUT THAT.

BUT I THINK HOPEFULLY HE UNDERSTANDS NOW THE FILIBUSTER PROTECTS BOTH SIDES WHEN THEY'RE IN THE MINORITY.

AND WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND, WALTER.

THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

IT WILL CHANGE.

>> EXPLAIN TO ME THEN WHY THE REPUBLICANS, ALL YOUR COLLEAGUES AND FRIENDS FROM BACK IN THE DAY, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE SENATE, YOU KNOW THEM WELL, WHAT IS TRUMP DOING TO THEM?

WHY HAS TRUMP TURNED IT INTO A PURE AUTHORITY OF THE PRESIDENT AND THESE PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T EVEN FIND FIVE OR SIX OF THEM TO STAND UP?

>> REMEMBER HOW WE USED TO SAY IT IS GUILT BY ASSOCIATION.

THEY SEE YOU TALKING TO SOMEONE AND SAY, OH, YOU'RE COLLUDING WITH WALTER, YOU MUST BE ON WALTER'S SIDE, OKAY.

I SAID NOW IT IS GUILT BY CONVERSATION.

WE CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION LET ALONE GET TOGETHER AND HAVE A MEAL OR TALK OVER -- >> IS THAT BECAUSE OF TRUMP?

>> I THINK THAT IT HAS PUT IT MUCH MORE ON THE FRONT BURNER.

BECAUSE HE MAKES NO BONES, HE'S GOING AFTER RETRIBUTION, TO ANYBODY WHO OPPOSED HIM IN THE PAST.

HE'S USING THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WHICH I SAY, MR.

PRESIDENT, TRUST ME, THIS WILL BITE YOU.

WHATEVER YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING TODAY TO SATISFY YOUR OWN DESIRES, IT WILL COME BACK AND BITE YOU WORSE THAN WHAT YOU EVER CAN ANTICIPATE.

PLEASE DON'T DO IT.

AND I'M ASKING MY REPUBLICAN FRIENDS, YOU HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, DO NOT ABDICATE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES THAT YOU TAKE THE SEPARATION OF THE THREE EQUAL POWERS, EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE, AND JUDICIAL.

WORK AUTONOMOUSLY, BUT WORK WITH THE RESPECT SAYING, DONALD TRUMP IS OUR PRESIDENT, HE'S MY PRESIDENT, HE'S YOUR PRESIDENT.

WE WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

TO SUCCEED YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER RESPECTFULLY.

IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THEN YOU'RE NOT HELPING YOUR PRESIDENT.

>> YOU JUST USED THE WORD RETRIBUTION.

WHICH REALLY DOES SEEM TO SUM UP WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WITH DONALD TRUMP USING THE JUDICIARY AS YOU SAID, CONGRESS AND EVERYTHING, TO HAVE RETRIBUTION AGAINST ANYBODY WHO OPPOSES HIM.

WHY IS THAT --HOW IS THAT BEING ALLOWED TO HAPPEN?

AND WHAT COULD THAT DO TO OUR SYSTEM IF IT BECOMES A SYSTEM OF RETRIBUTION?

>> WELL, AGAIN, MY FRIENDS IN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE SENATE NOW AND IN THE HOUSE, SILENCE IS DEAFENING.

SILENCE IS TRULY DEAFENING, WALTER.

THEY'RE NOT SAYING A WORD AND SPEAKING UP.

LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

2013, HARRY REID WAS BEING PRESSURED BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, WE GOT TO GET OUR PEOPLE CONFIRMED.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THE NUCLEAR OPTION.

THAT MEANS BYPASS THE FILIBUSTER.

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SIT DOWN AND WORK THROUGH THE DIFFERENCES THIS WAY.

WILL AND PLEASURE.

WHEN A PRESIDENT IS ELECTED, THAT PRESIDENT OUGHT TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT HIS STAFF TOGETHER AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO HE CAN DO THE JOB THE PEOPLE ELECTED HIM TO DO.

NOW, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THAT SHOULD BE A 51 VOTE THRESHOLD.

NO 60 VOTE THRESHOLD, JUST 51 AND SAY, LISTEN, THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE WILL AND PLEASURE.

THE PRESIDENT WANTS HIM IN THERE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, AND WHEN HE LEAVES, THEY LEAVE.

THEY'RED NO HELD ED NOT HELD OVER FOR SOME OTHER ADMINISTRATION.

THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE WORKED OUT BUT THEY DIDN'T.

SO HARRY PULLS THE TRIGGER ON THE MILITARY OPTION AND THE CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT JUDGES.

GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?

WITHIN A COUPLE YEARS, MR.

PLK McCONNELL, REPUBLICANS ARE IN THE MAJORITY AND THEY PULL THE PLUG ON THE SUPREME COURT COURT JUSTICES.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE FILIBUSTER.

>> WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

IF THE PRESIDENT THINKS RETRIBUTION IS A WAY YOU CAN BASICALLY HOLD YOUR STAFF AND SHOW HOW TOUGH YOU ARE, AND GO AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT YOU THINK WENT AFTER YOU UNFAIRLY, WITHOUT SETTING AN EXAMPLE OF JUSTICE AND THE RULE OF LAW, THAT GOES AROUND, IT IS GOING TO COME AROUND AND I'LL GUARANTEE YOU THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE JUSTIFIED IN USING IT.

THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH CHARACTER THERE TO STAND UP AND SAY, JUST BECAUSE YOU DID IT TO ME, I'M NOT DOING IT TO YOU.

I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW WE LEAD.

I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW YOU HAVE EMPATHY AND SYMPATHY, BUT THOSE PEOPLE WILL PAY THE PRICE IN A PUBLIC POLLING.

>> YOU MENTIONED TWICE IN THIS CONVERSATION, YOU MENTIONED THAT IT A WHOLE LOT IN YOUR BOOK "DEAD CENTER," A VERY STRONG NARRATIVE BOOK, ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER AND WHY IT MUST BE PROTECTED, SOMETHING MANY OF YOUR DEMOCRATIC COLLEAGUES DON'T BELIEVE IN AS WELL.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU WOULD PROTECT THE FILIBUSTER AND YOU DID SO DURING THE BIDEN YEARS?

>> THE FILIBUSTER IS THE ONLY TOOL, IN POLITICS, NOT JUST IN AMERICA, BUT ANYPLACE IN THE WORLD I'VE EVER KNOWN, THE FILIBUSTER IS THE ONLY THING THAT GIVES INPUT TO THE MINORITY.

MOST GOVERNMENTS, MOST LEGISLATORS, WHOEVER IS IN THE MAJORITY, HAS TOTAL ABSOLUTE POWER.

THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS IN CONGRESS.

YOU GET 218, YOU DON'T HAVE TO EVEN CONSIDER THE MINORITY SIDE.

BUT IN THE SENATE, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO CONSIDER THE MINORITY TO HAVE INPUT.

THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE STABILITY THAT WE HAD IN OUR LAWS, IN OUR FINANCIAL SYSTEM, EVERYTHING THAT WE PUT IN, IT IS HARD.

WHEN THEY CAUGHT IT THE MOST DELIBERATE BODY IN THE WORLD, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ANYBODY, IT IS HARD TO PASS LEGISLATION.

IT IS EVEN HARDER TO REPEAL IT OR GET RID OF IT.

>> OKAY, WAIT, HARD TO PASS LEGISLATION, LET ME TAKE AN EXAMPLE FROM YOUR CAREER, WHICH IS AFTER SANDY HOOK, YOU CALLED IT ONE OF THE DARKEST DAYS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

AND YOU AND THE REPUBLICAN SENATOR PAT TOOMEY HAD A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE ADDRESSED GUN VIOLENCE IN SORT OF A BALANCED WAY.

AND YET BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER, EVEN IT COULDN'T GET THROUGH.

ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM?

AREN'T WE HAVING MORE DARK DAYS BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER?

>> HERE'S WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE, WE SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT THAT BILL UP TWO OR THREE TIMES --AND LET THE UNDO ITS WORK.

IT WAS SIMPLY A REGISTRATION BASICALLY, YOU HAD TO HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK IN ORDER TO GET A GUN.

AND ANYBODY THAT GREW UP IN A GUN CULTURE LIKE ME AND YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE HAD PEOPLE WITH GUNS AROUND, YOU LEARNED YOU DON'T --HOW TO CARRY A GUN, WHEN TO HAVE IT LOADED, YOU NEVER LOAN A GUN TO AN IRRESPONSIBLE MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY AND NEVER SELL A GUN TO SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S JUST A GUN ETIQUETTE THAT WE --WE CALL IT GUN SENSE.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE TRY TO DO.

I DIDN'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT DIDN'T HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK WHEN THEY BOUGHT A GUN OR IF THEIR DAD BOUGHT A GUN FOR THEM.

THAT'S ALL WE ASK FOR.

LET'S AT LEAST KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO GUN SHOWS AND BUYING TWO SACKS OF GUNS, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE AND DO WE DO A BACKGROUND CHECK TO SEE IF THIS IS A CREDIBLE PERSON OR RESPONSIBLE PERSON?

NONE OF THAT.

THAT'S ALL WE ASK.

AND COULDN'T EVEN GET THAT DONE BECAUSE OF THE TOXIC POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE.

>> BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER.

>> 80% OF THE PEOPLE BELIEVED IT.

HERE'S THE THING.

THAT'S WHY IT IS DELIBERATE.

WE COULD HAVE RUN THE FIRST TIME AND GONE BACK AND SAID, LISTEN, PLEASE, CONTACT THOSE, WE LOST THREE OR FOUR DEMOCRATS THAT DIDN'T VOTE FOR IT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD HURT THEM IN THEIR RE-ELECTION, THEY LOST ANYWAY.

THESE WERE DEAR FRIENDS OF MINE.

I TOLD THEM, IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

THE PROBLEM IS, WALTER, WHEN I DID WHAT I DID WITH MANCHIN-MANCHIN- TOOMEY BILL, HE DIDN'T WANT US TO HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

I TOOK TIME TO GO BACK HOME AND GO TO EVERY GUN STORE IN WEST VIRGINIA AND EXPLAIN, THIS IS WHAT WE LEARN WHEN WE'RE YOUNG, THIS IS WHAT YOU TEACH, ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS WHEN YOU GO TO A GUN SHOW, THERE SHOULDN'T BE SOMEONE THAT HAS A TABLE NEXT TO YOU THAT PAID $250 TO SELL WHATEVER THEY WANT TO AND NOT REQUIRE THE BACKGROUND CHECK, BUT YOU AS A LICENSED DEALER HAD TO HAVE IT IF YOU'RE AT THE GUN SHOW.

THAT'S UNFAIR COMPETITION.

BUT YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

NOBODY, I GUESS, DIDN'T WANT TO WORK THAT HARD, DIDN'T TANK ME.

I WAS ABLE TO GET RE- ELECTED IN 2018.

AND JUST GOT TO WORK.

CAN'T GIVE UP.

>> YOU BECAME AN INDEPENDENT IN 2024, HAVING BEEN A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, DEMOCRATIC SENATOR, FROM YOUR STATE.

AND YOU BECAME AN INDEPENDENT, YOU EXPLAINED IN THE BOOK "DEAD CENTER" BECAUSE THE --YOU FELT THAT NEITHER PARTY REPRESENTED THE COMMON SENSE CENTER.

I'M GOING TO READ YOU A QUOTE FROM THAT BOOK, WHICH IS I AM THOROUGHLY CONVINCED THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY SHARE MY COMMON SENSE POLITICS, WHICH IS NOT THE LEAST BIT HARD TO SUM UP, PUT PEOPLE FIRST, COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY, BE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE AND SOCIALLY COMPASSIONATE.

THAT'S IT.

WHY HAVE THERE NOT BEEN MORE PEOPLE IN PUBLIC OFFICE, CITIZENS, WHO SAY, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GO THIS INDEPENDENT ROUTE?

WHY HAVE WE BECOME MORE POLARIZED INSTEAD OF MORE INDEPENDENT?

>> THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS TODAY ARE REGISTERED NO PARTY AFFILIATION, LIKE ME, INDEPENDENT.

>> WHY ARE ALL THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, CONGRESSMEN, SENATORS, POLARIZING RATHER THAN PLAYING TO THAT LARGE GROUP OF AMERICANS WHO ARE INDEPENDENT?

>> BECAUSE THE DUOPOLY OF THE BUSINESS ACUMEN OF THE DEMOCRATIC- REPUBLICAN CORPORATIONS HAVE SHUT THIS THING DOWN TO WHERE NO ONE ELSE CAN PARTICIPATE.

THEY MAKE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THROUGH A PRIMARY.

THEY CAN TARGET PRIMARIES.

THEY'RE NOT OPENING UP PRIMARIES, THEY'RE NOT EMBRACING RANK CHOICE VOTING OR OPEN PRIMARY OR A 51% MAJORITY BEFORE YOU CAN TAKE OFFICE.

THERE IS VERY FEW STATES THAT --ONLY TWO I KNOW OF THAT DO ALL OF THAT.

THEY DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY CAN CONTROL THE FLOW.

IF YOU CAN CONTROL --PERFECT EXAMPLE, THE 2024 ELECTION, THINK ABOUT THAT WALTER, JUST NOT THAT LONG AGO, 2024 ELECTION, THERE WAS ABOUT $11 BILLION SPENT.

BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE ONE THING WE HEARD ABOUT WAS SEVEN BATTLEGROUND STATES.

43 STATES WERE PREDETERMINED.

ONLY SEVEN, THAT'S WHERE THE MIDDLE, THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THAT MIDDLE.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU ELECT SOMEONE FROM THE MIDDLE, THEY GO TO WASHINGTON, PICK A SIDE, LEFT OR RIGHT, THERE IS NO CENTER, MAYBE CENTER LEFT, CENTER RIGHT, THERE IS NO MODERATE MIDDLE, THERE IS NO STRUCTURE FOR THAT BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESN'T ALLOW IT.

THAT'S WHAT HAS TO BE BROKEN DOWN.

>> YOU SAID THE REASON THAT WE CAN'T COME TOGETHER IN THE CENTER IS MONEY AND POLITICS AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK IS THE -- >> I CAN TELL YOU THIS, IF WE WOULD HAVE BEEN ON --IF I COULD HAVE PUT A TEAM TOGETHER AND WORKED IN THIS 2024 ELECTION, AND GOT ON 50 BALLOTS, WE COULD HAVE CONTENDED.

WE COULD HAVE BASICALLY MADE A POSITION WHERE THE MIDDLE AND THE PEOPLE COULD HAVE VOTED FOR THE MIDDLE AND -- >> YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, WHY DID YOU DO IT?

>> THEY COULDN'T GET ON 50 BALLOTS, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

THEY HAD TO --NO LABELS, FRIENDS OF OURS, TRIED EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE, GOT ON 16 BALLOTS AND THAT TOOK HIM OVER A YEAR AND 40, $50 MILLION, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO AND IT CAN BE DONE AND SHOULD BE DONE.

>> IF YOU HAD RUN IN 2024, YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT, YOU HAD A LOT OF LUNCHES AND DINNERS ABOUT IT, WOULD YOU HAVE RUN WITH A REPUBLICAN RUNNING MATE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

FORMER REPUBLICAN THAT HAS THAT SAME PHILOSOPHY THAT I HAD, I WOULD HAVE RAN AS THEIR VICE PRESIDENT, DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, I WASN'T THERE.

I SAID, LISTEN, LET'S GO IN THERE AND HEAL THIS COUNTRY, LET'S START MAKING SURE THEY KNOW WE'RE THE UNITED STATES, AND YOU CAN ONLY DO THAT BY UNITING THE TWO FORMER PARTIES THAT HAVE GONE COMPLETELY TO THEIR EXTREMES.

THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF REPUBLICANS, GOOD REPUBLICANS, AND FORMER GOOD DEMOCRATS.

I COULDN'T REMAIN A DEMOCRAT ANY LONGER, AND I COULDN'T JOIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND I TOLD THEM, THEY SAID WHY DON'T YOU BE A REPUBLICAN, I SAID THEY WON'T LIKE ME ANY MORE THAN DEMOCRATS.

I SAID, WALTER, I NEVER MET A REPUBLICAN THAT WAS ALWAYS WRONG.

AND I NEVER MET A DEMOCRAT THAT IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

THEY'RE BOTH MY FRIENDS.

AND I NEVER CAMPAIGNED AGAINST A REPUBLICAN RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

THAT'S WHY I DID SO MUCH IN THE MIDDLE.

THAT'S WHY DEAD CENTER, JUST HAVING SOME BASIC DECENCY ABOUT YOU THAT I'M NOT GOING TO COME OUT AND CAMPAIGN AGAINST YOU ON THE WEEKEND AND COME BACK MONDAY WHEN WE'RE IN THE SENATE TOGETHER, YOU BE A D AND I'LL BE AN R, VICE VERSA, AND I SAID, WALTER, WILL YOU WORK WITH ME ON THIS, HE SAID, HELL NO, YOU TRIED TO DEFEAT ME, WHY DO YOU THINK I WANT TO WORK WITH YOU?

THAT'S THE ATMOSPHERE WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON THAT HAS TO STOP.

>> WELL, IF YOU WANT TO STOP IT, BECAUSE WASHINGTON YOU HAVE THAT ATMOSPHERE, WHY ISN'T AMERICANS TOGETHER, WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HELPING TO PUSH, WHY DOESN'T IT RUN FOR STATE LEGISLATURES AND OTHER PLACES, GET THIS FROM THE GROUND UP?

>> WELL, WE'RE TRYING TO.

WE'RE TRYING TO ACCUMULATE THE RESOURCES WE CAN PROTECT PEOPLE THAT TRULY PUT THEIR COUNTRY OR THEIR STATE OR THE OFFICE BEFORE THEMSELVES.

COMMIT THEMSELVES TO BASICALLY --I THINK THE SAME TERM LIMITS.

I BELIEVE IF YOU PUT TERM LIMITS ON NATIONAL BALLOT, YOU PASS BY 80%.

NO SENATOR SHOULD BE THERE LONGER THAN 12 YEARS, TWO TERMS, PRESIDENT SHOULD BE ONE SIX-YEAR TERM, PRESIDENT, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF SHOULD NOT SPEND ONE DAY THINKING ABOUT A RE-ELECTION, DO YOUR JOB EVERY DAY.

AND THE SUPREME COURT, 18 YEARS.

I THINK THAT WOULD -- >> WITH ALL THESE THINGS, CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO FIX IT NOW AS WE GO INTO 250th BIRTHDAY AND BECOME MORE POLARIZED, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY START A CENTRIST MOVEMENT THAT IS GOING TO WORK?

>> LET'S SEE WHAT TYPE OF CENTRISTS ARE RUNNING ON WHATEVER TICKET THEY'RE RUNNING ON, THE DEMOCRAT TICKET.

LET'S SAY IN THE 2026 MIDTERMS, THE PEOPLE SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, WE'RE GOING TO FLIP IT.

WE'RE NOT CRAZY ABOUT WHERE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE GONE AND WE'RE UPSET THE REPUBLICANS HAVE SO MUCH POWER, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO NEUTRALIZE THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THAT'S A TELLTALE SIGN.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT REDISTRICTING RIGHT NOW AND GOING BACK AND PLAYING GAMES WITH THAT.

I HOPE CALIFORNIA DOESN'T JOIN TEXAS AND SOME OF THE OTHER ONES AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT BACKFIRE WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN STACK THE DECK AND GET WHAT YOU WANT.

YOU'LL GET CAUGHT.

IT WILL COME BACK AND BACKFIRE ON YOU.

SO, THAT'S YET TO BE SEEN.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2028 WITH A REPUBLICAN TICKET?

>> WALTER, I'M GOING TO DO WHATEVER I CAN TO HELP MY COUNTRY.

I TRULY AM.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE.

I AM TRYING TO RECRUIT.

I'M HAVING A HARDER TIME RECRUITING PEOPLE TO JUST PARTICIPATE THAN EVER BEFORE.

NOW, WITH ALL THIS VIOLENCE, PEOPLE ARE MORE SCARED OF THAT AS THEY ARE BASICALLY SAYING, NASTY THINGS ABOUT ME AND PUTTING THINGS ABOUT YOUR PAST AND YOUR FAMILY AND ON AND ON, I CAN LIVE WITH ALL THAT, THE PEOPLE NOW CAN TRULY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND THAT'S WRONG.

WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT VIOLENCE ANY WAY AND IT HAS TO BE PUT OUT, IT HAS TO STOP.

>> JOE MANCHIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> WALTER, ALWAYS GREAT BEING WITH YOU, THANK YOU.