Michigan’s Muslims Helped Biden Win in 2020. Will They Back Harris in Nov.?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Now, fears of a wider war in the Middle East are being felt also in the United States, including by Lebanese American Mayor Abdullah Hammoud of Dearborn, Michigan. A state that’s home to the nation’s largest Arab American population. And Hammoud tells Michel Martin about the growing voter disaffection in his community and what it would take to restore their trust in the upcoming presidential election.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Christiane. Mayor Abdullah Hammoud, thank you so much for speaking with us.

ABDULLAH HAMMOUD, MAYOR OF DEARBORN, MICHIGAN: Thank you so much for having me.

MARTIN: You are the first person of Arab descent to be elected mayor of Dearborn, which I think might be surprising to some people, given that Dearborn is a majority, you know, Arab Muslim city. You were in the State House before you became mayor, but I was just wondering if you wouldn’t mind taking us back to when you first ran, and what made you run?

HAMMOUD: This is the place that my parents first emigrated to, finding financial and social opportunity. And Dearborn is a place in which I’m raising my own family. And I believe Dearborn to be the greatest American city there is, coast to coast. And for me, running for Dearborn — for mayor of Dearborn was about the opportunity to improve the quality of life for all of our residents, and we never ran to be the first anything. In fact, our mantra was running to be the best, to demonstrate that, you know, regardless of the direction which I pray, the direction which I lead is a strong direction and the direction in which that can uplift all the communities across the city of Dearborn, and that’s why we did it.

MARTIN: As we are speaking now, it’s been a year since the October 7th, you know, Hamas attack on Southern Israel and all that has transpired since then, as we are speaking now, there is an aggressive military campaign going on in Lebanon, where your parents are from. I just wondered if you would just share a few vignettes, if you would, from what this past year has been like.

HAMMOUD: You know, what I would say is when I ran for mayor, you know, I ran on the idea that I was going to ensure that residents’ garbage was picked up on time. And yet, here I am talking about the crises that are unfolding thousands of miles away. But what I often tell folks is when there’s an issue unfolding that impacts my residents directly, I have a responsibility to use the platform that has been privileged to me by the residents to speak up and to ensure that their voices are heard. And that’s what we’ve tried to do to the best of our ability over the last year. I can’t say that I’ve done it perfectly or that I’m doing it just great, but I’m doing the best I can to elevate the voices in this time of deep pain for the tens of thousands of residents that have called me, contacted me, that have come to our council chambers talking about the sheer death and destruction that they see each and every single day. You know, for many Americans across this country, when they see the images or videos surfacing all over social media, to them it’s just images of strangers. For us here in the city of Dearborn, these are images of close family and friends, which makes that pain all the closer to us. And so, that’s why I think I have a responsibility to speak up and use the platform I have to hopefully push for a change and course on what has been unfolding across the Middle East for as long as I’ve been alive.

MARTIN: What are some of the stories that your residents, your constituents have told you, just, you know, one or two or three, even from your own family, if you don’t mind?

HAMMOUD: Just yesterday I got a call from a cousin who informed me that his sister-in-law was just obliterated to pieces. She was trying to escape her home in Lebanon, and as she was walking out with her children, she was advancing to the car when a bomb had just dropped on the car and killed her in front of her children. We had an instance where, right now, my stepsister is trapped in Lebanon, and she has not been able to find a flight to come back to America where she lives with her husband with her children. I’ve had residents come when we first pushed the first ceasefire resolution for what’s unfolding across Gaza, to speak to the calamity that has struck their family. One resident in specific spoke to losing over 70 or 80 family and loved ones. This is something that nobody can fathom. And the pain is so deep that there’s just a numbness to it. And unfortunately, as I described months ago, many in the City of Dearborn don’t sleep. When my wife first woke up this morning, at 7:00 in the morning, heading out to work, her first question to me was, what happened since we slept and when we woke up that’s unfolded overseas in those — in these last five, six hours? And I think that’s what is top of mind for so many residents, not only in Dearborn, all across the globe.

MARTIN: So, you’re describing a sense of exhaustion, a sense of kind of helplessness. One of the reasons I think people know you, even if they don’t live in or near Dearborn, is that you wrote an op-ed for The New York Times back in February where you describe this sense of betrayal. As briefly as you can, say more about that. What is that betrayal?

HAMMOUD: Many of us here in the city supported President Biden and his election efforts versus then President Donald Trump on the hope that he would bring morality and decency back to the White House. But what we have seen unfold over the last 11 months, the number, the numerous war crimes that have been committed. We have seen a president who has been unwilling to distance himself from the war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet. And that’s why we feel so betrayed, that our president would rather choose and side with Benjamin Netanyahu over the American people.

MARTIN: You talked about the feeling that, you know, a lot of people come as immigrants, they don’t necessarily come from places where they have been allowed to or encouraged to participate in civic life. And then, they come here and then they’re told to participate. And then they start feeling like no matter what they do, no matter how many phone calls they make, no matter how many peaceful demonstrations they participate in, no matter how many petitions they write, that it sort of doesn’t matter. Does it still feel that way, that you’re not being listened to or has any of that changed?

HAMMOUD: We are at the cusp of a regional war unfolding across the entirety of the Middle East. We most certainly still feel that way. And what I would tell you right now is, you know, over 60 percent of Americans support an arms embargo against the Israeli government. Yet, we have a president that has not moved on this issue. It has just been unveiled that both USAID and the State Department have provided the report to the White House administration that Israel — the Israeli government did block humanitarian aid, which would permit now the American government from withholding weapons distribution towards Israeli government, which it had not done. In fact, Secretary Blinken went to Congress and said anything but the truth. And so, for us, we do at times feel as if all the protesting, all the yelling and screaming, trying to highlight the atrocities that are happening and unfolding are leading us to nowhere. I think what we are trying to do and trying to understand is the center of America has moved on the issue of Israel and Palestine. And what we’d love to see now is the center of the Democratic Party to move as well.

MARTIN: One of the reasons you also came to public attention back in February is that there has been a movement to encourage people to vote in the primaries, to vote uncommitted, as an expression of their disagreement with the administration, you know, over it’s a stance toward Israel and the Gaza war. OK. So, that was the primaries. And there were significant numbers of people in both Wisconsin and Michigan for both important battleground states that did choose to vote sort of uncommitted. What about now? What is the feeling now about the best course of action?

HAMMOUD: This is hotly debated across the community, whether it be at the Arab community, the Muslim community or the antiwar community at large, the community is not a monolith. I’ve had conversations with some individuals who feel that not voting at all because of the apathy that they feel and the demonstration that — all the work that’s happened over the last 11 months has led to nothing. And I think that is the most catastrophic thing come November. I had many come forward and say they’re looking towards a third-party. You have many of folks who were still in Vice President Harris’ camp. But I think what you’re finding is the coalition that was built by Joe Biden to defeat Donald Trump four years ago is not tightly knit together, it has been fractured because of the course that they have taken on the issue of Gaza and more broadly speaking across Palestine and Lebanon today.

MARTIN: To the point of the third-parties that you mentioned, a recent Reuters poll showed that 40 percent of Arab and Muslim voters in Michigan are now backing the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. And Michigan was really important to Joe Biden’s victory in 2020. I mean, Michigan is one of those states that went to Trump in 2016. The fact that Biden was able to win Michigan by, well, in, you know, 150,000 votes, not huge, given you’re talking about millions of voters, was part of the reason that he is president now. But the fact is, Mr. Mayor, Jill Stein is not going to be president of the United States. That’s just not going to happen. So, is this move toward Jill Stein — is that a political strategy or is that more a statement of anger? What is that?

HAMMOUD: I agree. And I understand that come November, you really have one of two choices over who is going to win this election, be it Vice President Harris or Former President Trump. I 100 percent understand electoral politics that we have at play. From the individuals that I’ve spoken to are supporting a third-party candidate, for them, they’re trying to vote with their values and morals at the forefront. You know, they want a president who not only advocates for an assault weapons ban here in the states, but also insurance that we don’t have cabinet members of the Israeli government passing out assault weapons to radical settlers killing Palestinians every single day. They want to support a president who understands that we have to end mass shooting at schools, but also holds accountable a government that decimated every university across Gaza. You know, we care about universal healthcare and we care about what’s happening in Gaza. We care about a new future and what’s unfolding in Yemen. We care about centering worker and unions rights and also wanting to understand what’s unfolding in Yemen. And we’re looking for a presidential candidate who takes these values and applies them globally. And so, I think that’s what you’re hearing from folks who are going towards a third-party candidate, be a Stein or someone else. And that’s really what they want. They — people want to be inspired to vote for something. They don’t want the simple message that Donald Trump is awful, which he is. We understand what he represents, the Muslim ban, the annexation of the Golan Heights, elimination of all aid towards Palestinians during his term. We know exactly what he represents and what he would bring in the second term. But the fear tactic is not going to work. People want an inspirational reason to come out to the ballot come November.

MARTIN: There’s a group called the Uncommitted National Movement, which is a coalition of people who have supported the idea of voting uncommitted in the primaries. The group claims to have about, you know, 700,000 people who support it. And last week, the movement announced it won’t endorse Kamala Harris, but they did urge supporters to vote against Trump and avoid third- party candidates. So, what does that mean? I understand you don’t speak for this group, but what does that mean?

HAMMOUD: Yes, I can’t speak to the thought process that went into the messaging behind the Uncommitted National Movement’s announcement. What I can tell you though is when you have conversations at the doorsteps with residents here in the City of Dearborn, where my primary concern is there, there’s a difference in belief. Again, you have folks who very much do support the vice president. You have folks who very much are supporting a third-party candidate. But I think the largest voting block is — are those who are not considering coming out to vote at all. And if we recall the 2016 election, it wasn’t that Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton by roughly 11,000 votes in Michigan in 2016, it was the fact that 80,000 voters went out and skipped the presidential question in total. And so, I think that is the thing that we are trying to course correct for. The message that I have is I endorse you voting come November. At the very minimum, you must come out and you must cast your ballot, because standing on the sideline is not sufficient, and it’s not going to get us anywhere. And so, we have to demonstrate our power through, our voice and our power through our vote.

MARTIN: You are a Democrat yourself, but your position now is officially as mayor is a nonpartisan position if I have that right, right? So, that’s the municipal elections are nonpartisan as they are in a lots — of lots of places. OK. So, on the one hand you certainly have had the experience, I think, of having to ask people to support you, even if they don’t agree with you about everything. I don’t know if you’ve talked to the Harris campaign about this or if they’ve reached out to you, but how would you suggest that they talk to voters about that?

HAMMOUD: It’s a very difficult conversation. I mean, how would you approach a resident who had lost 70, 80 plus family members and tell them, regardless of what you’ve lost, the choice is between two, and you must still cast your ballot one way or the other. It’s not an easy conversation to have. Here’s what I can tell you. For the last 20 years of my life Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have made secondary the issues of foreign affairs. I can’t tell you that between Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden that we have had alignment or agreement on their global policies. That’s not been the case. What you’re hearing now in this election that’s different is I have been the first to say, and I put so in my op-ed, the transformative policies of President Biden are likened to those of Lyndon B. Johnson or FDR. But a genocide outweighs all of this. The conflict we’re speaking to is unprecedented. You’re talking about 2.2 million people where 100 percent are displaced, where whether you’re looking to the ministry — the health ministry numbers or the Lancet medical — the Lancet journal publication, the deaths are somewhere between 40,000 and 180,000, the majority of which are women and children, and 90 percent of civilian infrastructure has been decimated. The U.N. estimates place that it would take over a decade just to eliminate the rubble, and it would take multiple decades to rebuild. We see what’s happening now in the West Bank, where the Al Jazeera offices have been a shattered for the next 45 days. We see the expansion of the war throughout Lebanon. And again, I’m getting phone calls from close immediate family members saying they’re trapped, or they have been killed, or they have been injured, and we’re expected to say these issues that are false secondary. And so, I think the grace that has to be awarded to this community and this point of time is that this issue is — has to be as prioritized as those that I spoke to domestically.

MARTIN: Has the Harris campaign reached out to you, or have you reached out to them?

HAMMOUD: There have been many conversations when we first started with the Biden administration leading into with Harris campaign individuals. And we’ve expressed these points time and time again, that when it comes to this community here, the things that they’re looking for, at this point, it’s beyond the ceasefire. We have to understand that Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet are not looking to end this conflict. He’s looking to retain his political position within his government, and he’s doing all he can to avoid a hostage deal to bring all the hostages and prisoners home and to allow unfettered access to humanitarian aid. You can’t keep giving this tyrant our access to all the weapons and bombs that we manufacture. An arms embargo and needs to be imposed in order for us to bring him to the table. So, we can put resolution to this conflict that’s unfolding and hopefully, put forward a just solution and establishing a Palestinian State to end this conflict once and for all.

MARTIN: The former president, the current candidate, Republican candidate, is not an untested quantity. It’s not a hypothetical. He’s made it clear where he stands. I mean, here’s a person who used Palestinian almost as a slur. I guess what I’m saying is it’s a known quantity who’s made it very clear that he stands solidly with Israel. I know that he’s promised and he has asserted that he will bring Middle East peace. He has asserted this. I know he’s asserted this to constituents of yours in various ways, but his method of doing so I find would not — I would venture to say, would not be pleasing to most of your constituents. And so, then, the question becomes, what if Mr. Trump wins and all the things that you have supported and worked for and care about are undone? How will you answer that?

HAMMOUD: I am doing all that I can to prevent Donald Trump from being re- elected. And what I’m trying to do is use a platform that I have in urging the vice president to chart a new course on what’s happening. Not because Dearborn residents are asking for it, not because Arab Americans and Muslim Americans are asking for it, because the center of the party that she represents, the center of this country has moved on its issues, whether it’s an arms embargo, pursuing a ceasefire, ending the conflicts overseas, these are all things that everyday Americans are calling for. And so, if we can uphold that value and heed the concerns of Americans from coast to coast, we can work collectively to rebuild the coalition to prevent the re-election of Donald Trump. But this is not about moving a constituency that is feeling deep pain, this is about moving a candidate who is seeking the highest office in the globe on issues of morality. And that is what we are trying to do in this moment of time. Obviously, elections start soon. And that’s why we are urging with all of the power that we have. That’s why you see a muddy draw out from the Uncommitted National Movement on messaging. Because we understand what Donald Trump represents. Nobody is here to debate that, by any means. We understand that, ultimately, you have a binary choice come this November, but what is not binary is either are the positions that are being taken right now overseas. And we have to usher in a new era to bring about just solutions to these decades’ long conflicts. Without so, you’re really losing people and leaving them behind at the wayside.

MARTIN: Before we let you go, Mr. Mayor, how — what — you have juggling a lot of things and a family, in addition to being mayor, and in addition to trying to, you know, comfort, support, and advocate for people. What is your work in these next week’s going forward?

HAMMOUD: My work is centered on ensuring that the next generation has far greater opportunity and far less difficulty and being as American as they can be. And that, you know, a name like mine, Abdullah Hussain Hammoud, is as American as any other. And that a city like Dearborn is the greatest American city, because we are so diverse and beautiful and we come together in these moments of struggle. So, that’s my work, is really centered around making sure my residents have the comfort and support that they need in these dire times. And I take my lead from them and I lean on them in these moments of difficulty, because that’s what Dearborn does.

MARTIN: Mayor Abdullah Hammoud, Mayor of Dearborn, thank you so much for speaking with us. I do hope we’ll talk again.

HAMMOUD: Thank you so much for having me.