November 18, 2025

>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

SAUDI ARABIA'S CROWN PRINCE COMES TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

I SPEAK WITH BERNARD HAYKEL, A SCHOLAR WITH UNUSUAL ACCESS TO MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN ABOUT AMERICA'S STRATEGIC PIVOT FROM SHUNNING A CONTROVERSIAL GUEST TO OFFERING A WARM WELCOME.

> >> AND -- >> HE HAS NOT BEEN GOOD TO THE UNITED STATES.

SO WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> TRUMP RAMPS UP PRESSURE ON VENEZUELA'S NICOLAS MADURO, BUT WHERE IS THIS ALL HEADING?

I ASK FORMER U. S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL JUAN GONZALEZ.

> >> PLUS -- >> I DO BELIEVE IF SUSAN HAD BEEN A PERSON OF COLOR THIS WOULD HAVE GONE VERY DIFFERENTLY.

>> "THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR," A LOOK AT WHY WHITE FLORIDA RESIDENT COULD SHOOT AND KILL A BLACK NEIGHBOR THROUGH POLICE BODY-CAM FOOTAGE.

THE FILM'S DIRECTOR AND THE VICTIM'S MOTHER JOIN HARI SREENIVASAN.

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> >> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

SAUDI ARABIA'S CROWN PRINCE WALKED INTO THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY JUST YEARS AFTER BEING LABELED AN INTERNATIONAL PARIAH.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WELCOMED MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, THE MAN INCREASINGLY SEEN ADDS THE KINGDOM'S MOST CONSEQUENTIAL LEADER IN RECENT HISTORY BRINGING THE COUNTRY INTO MODERNITY AND SHORING UP LOYALTY BY CRUSHING DISSENT.

IT SEEMS THE OUTRAGE HAS FADED OVER THE KILLING OF WASH POST JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI.

NOW, YOU MAY REMEMBER IN 2018, SAUDI AGENTS KILLED AND DISMEMBERED KHASHOGGI AT A SAUDI CONSULATE IN TURKEY PROMPTING WORLDWIDE CONDEMNATION.

WITH THE TRANSACTIONAL TRUMP IN OFFICE AND THE COLD CALCULUS THAT BOTH COUNTRIES NEED EACH OTHER, THE PRESIDENT ADMITTED I LIKE HIM, MAYBE TOO MUCH.

THE CROWN PRINCE WANTS SOPHISTICATED U. S. FIGHTER JETS AND A PLEDGE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE IN RETURN FOR JOINING THE ABRAHAM ACCORDS, WHICH WOULD NORMALIZE SAUDI RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL.

HERE IS BAIT OF THEIR OVAL OFFICE MEETING.

>> YOU AGREED TO INVEST $600 BILLION INTO THE UNITED STATES.

BECAUSE OF THIS, FRIDAY FRIEND, HE MIGHT MAKE IT A TRILLION.

I WILL HAVE TO WORK ON HIM.

BUT IT'S 600.

WE CAN COUNT ON 600 BILLION, BUT THAT NUMBER COULD GO UP A LITTLE BIT HIGHER, YES.

I DON'T KNOW.

WE'LL SEE.

>> SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT LIKE AN AUCTIONEER IN ANY EVENT.

FEW AMERICANS KNOW OR UNDERSTAND MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN BETTER THAN PRINCETON SCHOLAR BERNARD HAYKEL.

WAS INTERVIEWED OR HAS INTERVIEWED THE CROWN PRINCE MORE THAN 20 TIMES FOR HIS FOURTH COMING BOOK "THE REALM" AND HE IS JOINING ME FROM WASHINGTON.

BERNARD HAYKEL, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S LOVELY TO BE HERE.

>> SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE ENTIRE PRESS CONFERENCE AT THE OVAL OFFICE LIVE ON TELEVISION, AND IT WAS QUITE SOMETHING.

I JUST WONDER FROM THE GET-GO, LET'S JUST ASK IS, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WELCOMING MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, WHO HIS OWN CIA DETERMINED IN THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAD BEEN BEHIND KHASHOGGI'S MURDER.

NOW, OBVIOUSLY, THE SAUDIS DENY IT.

TRUMP WENT AT THE ABC JOURNALIST, CALLED HER FAKE NEWS, AND THEN, SORRY, MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN ANSWERED IN A MEASURED AND DIRECT WAY TO THE JOURNALIST.

I WANT TO GET YOUR REACTION.

FIRST, I WANT TO PLAY THAT SOUND BITE.

>> ABOUT THE JOURNALIST, IT'S REALLY PAINFUL TO HEAR , YOU KNOW, ANYONE THAT BEEN LOSING HIS LIFE FOR, YOU KNOW, NO REAL PURPOSE OR NO --NOTHING ILLEGAL WAY.

AND IT'S BEEN PAINFUL FOR US IN SAUDI ARABIA.

WE DID ALL THE RIGHT STEPS OF INVESTIGATION, ET CETERA, IN SAUDI ARABIA, AND WE HAVE IMPROVED OUR SYSTEM TO BE SURE THAT NOTHING HAPPENED LIKE THAT AND IT'S PAINFUL AND IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE AND WE ARE DOING OUR BEST THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> SO PROFESSOR HAYKEL, I WAS ASTOUNDED THAT IT WAS THE CROWN PRINCE HIMSELF WHO ANSWERED A REPORTER, A WESTERN REPORTER, WHILE PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THAT SHE WAS INSULTING HIS WELCOME VISITOR.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT ENCOUNTER?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THE CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA IS A VERY, YOU KNOW, DIGNIFIED AND RESPECTFUL MAN WHEN IT COMES TO INTERACTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

HE PUT THE MURDER OF JAMAL ALSO WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE 9/11 ATTACKS, WHERE HE SAID THAT BIN LADEN WAS TRYING TO DESTROY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE KINGDOM AND THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT THAT HAD FAILED AND THAT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THAT FAILED, AND THAT HE WAS CONTINUING WITH BUILDING THAT RELATIONSHIP AND THAT THE JAMAL KHASHOGGI MURDER WAS A ROGUE OPERATION AND THE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED THAT CRIME WERE PUNISHED AND THE FAMILY OF JAMAL WAS PAID WHAT WE CALL BLOOD MONEY, AND THAT THE JUDICIAL PROCEDURES IN THE KINGDOM WERE UNDERTAKEN TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT JUSTICE WAS SERVED ACCORDING TO ISLAMIC LAW, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HE CAN SAY.

HE IS NOT GOING TO ADMIT TO HAVING -- >> NO, NO.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS ASKING.

I WAS ASKING THE DIFFERENCE OF THE SAUDI CROWN PRINCE DIRECTLY ANSWERING A DIRECT QUESTION THAT TRUMP BATTED AWAY AND ESSENTIALLY INSULTED AND THREATENED THE U. S. REPORTER.

>> MY SENSE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ESSENTIALLY YOU HE ACCUSED THE REPORTER BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO HIS GUEST.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF DOING ALL THESE DEALS WITH THE KINGDOM AND SIGNING ALL THESE AGREEMENTS, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, HE DOESN'T WANT THOSE JEOPARDIZED, AND HE FEELS THAT WHAT HE CALLS THE EXTREME LEFT, YOU KNOW, NOT WANTING THAT TO HAPPEN.

>> SO LET'S GET DOWN TO THE ACTUAL BUSINESS AT HAND.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE MET AND SPOKEN TO AND INTERVIEWED THE CROWN PRINCE, MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, MANY, MANY TIMES.

YOU HAVE GOT A BOOK COMING UP.

YOU REFERRED TO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HIM AND TRUMP AS A BROMANCE AND YOU HAVE JUST TALKED ABOUT THE BUSINESS DEALS.

SO WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ON CROWN PRINCE BIN SALMAN'S MIND AT THIS MEETING AT THE WHITE HOUSE?

>> RIGHT.

SO THE CROWN PRINCE WANTS TO ESTABLISH A STRATEGIC ALLIANCE WITH THE UNITED STATES.

HE WANTS TO ACCOMPLISH FOR SAUDI ARABIA WHAT NO PREVIOUS KING HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH, WHICH IS TO RAISE THE STATUS OF SAUDI ARABIA IN THE ADMINISTRATION, IN THIS ADMINISTRATION AND FUTURE ADMINISTRATIONS, TO THE LEVEL OF, SAY, THE UK OR FRANCE OR JAPAN.

THAT'S HIS AMBITION.

FOR THAT HE WANTS ULTIMATELY A MUTUAL DEFENSE TREATY, WHICH HE CANNOT GET BECAUSE TO REQUIRES 67 VOTES IN THE SENATE.

IT'S GOING TO START WITH AN AGREEMENT, AND THEN HE WILL BUILD OVER TIME, AS HE BECOMES KING AND RULES FOR MANY YEARS, TOWARDS A TREATY.

HE ALSO WANTS A STRONG ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AGREEMENT BECAUSE HE SEES THAT U. S. ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS SUPERIOR TO ANY --TO THE CHINESE AND ANYONE ELSE, AND HE WANTS THAT ALSO BUILT IN.

AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER TREATIES TO DO WITH MINING AND RARE EARTHS AND SO ON.

ESSENTIALLY, HE WANTS TO DEVELOP A STRONG STRATEGIC ALLIANCE THAT WILL PROVIDE SECURITY TO THE KINGDOM, SECURITY IN A REGION THAT IS VERY TURBULENT AND WITH MANY AGGRESSIVE NEIGHBORS LIKE IRAN, FOR INSTANCE, OR SHIITE MILITIAS IN YEMEN OR IRAQ, AND CIVIL WARS SUCH AS YOU SEE IN THE SUDAN.

THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS.

HE WANTS SECURITY.

THAT HAS BEEN A CONSTANT FEATURE OF SAUDI FOREIGN POLICY FOR MANY, MANY DECADES.

HE WANTS TO NOW SECURE THAT FOR HIS COUNTRY.

>> OKAY.

LET'S TAKE ONE BY ONE.

FIRST, LET'S GO TO WHAT THE AMERICANS WANT, AND THAT IS THE CROWN JEWEL OF THE ABRAHAM ACCORDS WHICH IS, FOR THEM, GETTING THE SAUDI ARABIANS TO NORMALIZE WITH ISRAEL.

OBVIOUSLY, CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED RUNS THE KINGDOM BY ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.

WHAT IS LIKELY HOOD OF HIM GIVING THAT, YOU KNOW, DURING THIS VISIT.

WILL HE TELL TRUMP THAT, YEAH, YOU HAVE PERSUADED ME THAT I WILL RECOGNIZE ISRAEL?

>> HE WILL ONLY DO THAT IF THE ISRAELIS MAKE A GESTURE TOWARDS THE PALESTINIANS.

AND ALSO HE HAS ASKED FOR SEVERAL THINGS.

FIRST, A CEASEFIRE IN GAZA WHICH IS ACCOMPLISHED.

A FULL WITHDRAWAL AND THE REMOVING THE ARMS FROM HAMAS.

FULL WITHDRAWAL OF ISRAEL FROM GAZA.

THEN HE WANTS THE ISRAELIS TO MAKE A GESTURE TOWARDS A ROADMAP FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE.

IF INTO THE ISRAELIS MAKE THOSE GESTURES, THEN I THINK HE WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS OF NORMALIZATION.

IT WILL BE A GRADUAL PROCESS.

IT WON'T BE LIKE WHAT WE SAW WITH THE UAE, THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES, AND I THINK HE DOES WANT THAT.

LET ME JUST EXPLAIN HOW I THINK THE CROWN PRINCE SEES ISRAEL.

FIRST, HE SEES A REGION IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAT HE WANTS TO BE STABLE AND ECONOMICALLY PROSPER USE.

THAT STABILITY AN PROSPERITY CANNOT BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHOUT ISRAEL BEING INCLUDED IN THE REGION AND NORMALIZED RELATIONS BEING HAD WITH ISRAEL.

BUT HE ALSO SEES THE PALESTINIAN, THE LACK OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS AND SELF-DETERMINATION FOR THE PALESTINIANS AS A CAUSE OF RADICALIZATION IN THE REGION.

SO HE WANTS THE PALESTINIANS TO BE - -TO BE GIVEN A STATE.

HE IS NOT GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT STATE LOOKS LIKE, BUT ONCE THAT HAPPENS, THAT SOURCE OF RADICALIZATION ENDS AND THEN NORMALIZATION AND ORDER, STABILITY AND PROSPERITY CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED, AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE A MILITARY ALLIANCE THAT WOULD INCLUDE BOTH ISRAEL, SAUDI AND OTHER U. S. ALLIES AGAINST THE TROUBLEMAKERS IN THE REGION.

HERE READ IRAN.

>> SO, OBVIOUSLY, EVERYBODY, INCLUDING ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES, SAYS IRAN HAS BEEN DEFANGED, HEZBOLLAH HAS BEEN DEFANGED.

OBVIOUSLY, HAMAS HAS BEEN DEFANGED.

ISRAEL HAS ACCOMPLISHED ALL OF THAT.

IN ITS NEIGHBORHOOD.

NOW WOULD BE THE TIME.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU AND HOW TO THE SAUDIS READ THE U. N. SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION OVERNIGHT THAT ESSENTIALLY BACKED PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SO-CALLED 20-POINT PEACE PLAN?

KEY TO THIS, IT BASICALLY SAYS ABOUT A PALESTINIAN STATE, ONLY SORT OF THE SORT OF MAYBE REFERENCE, NO SPECIFIC TIMELINE OR PROCESS FOR ACHIEVING IT OR JUDGING WHAT WOULD MAKE SO- CALLED REFORM IN THE PALESTINIAN PA ACCEPTABLE AND TO WHOM AND BY WHOM.

WHAT DO THE SAUDIS MAKE OF THAT RESOLUTION?

>> SO LET ME FIRST ADDRESS THE FIRST POINT YOU MADE, WHICH IS THAT THE SAUDIS DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE IRANIANS ARE --THEY ARE WEAKENED, YES, BUT CERTAINLY NOT ELIMINATED.

AND THEY ARE WORRIED THAT THE ISRAELIS WILL ATTACK THE IRANIANS AGAIN AND IN THE MOMENT OF EXISTENTIAL CRISIS FOR IRAN, THAT THE IRANIANS WOULD LASH OUT AT SAUDI ARABIA AND THE IRANIANS STILL HAVE SHORT RANGE MISSILES AND DRONES THAT COULD DAMAGE SAUDI VITAL INSTALLATIONS AND FACILITIES, OIL, WATER AND OTHER FACILITIES, COMMUNICATIONS, FOR INSTANCE.

SO THEY ARE NOT CONVINCED THAT IRAN IS OUT OF THE PICTURE.

SO THAT'S JUST ONE --IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU, I THINK, AND YOUR VIERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

AS FAR AS THE PALESTINIANS ARE CONCERNED AND THIS RESOLUTION, THE SAUDIS ARE SUPPORTIVE BUT THEY WANT MORE.

THEY WANT A MORE DEFINITIVE TIMELINE.

THEY WANT, YOU KNOW, THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY TO BE REFORMED.

I THINK BEHIND THE SCENES WHAT THEY WOULD BE SAYING TO THE AMERICANS, WE WANT A SPECIFIC LEADERSHIP AMONG THE PALESTINIANS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE CLEAN AND TECHNOCRATIC AND NOT CORRUPT.

THEY WANT THEM TO TAKE OVER.

AND THEY WANT THE PALESTINIAN --THEY WANT HAMAS ALSO TO BE DEMILITARIZED AND DISARMED JUST AS THEY WANT HEZBOLLAH.

SO THERE ARE INTERESTS THAT CROSS OR INTERSECT WITH ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA WHEN D COMES TO RADICAL MOVEMENTS.

BUT THEY WILL WANT MORE FROM THE AMERICANS.

AND THEY WILL WANT SPECIFICALLY AMERICAN PRESSURE ON PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO COME TO AN - -TO COME TO AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT A PALESTINIAN STATE WITH A ROADMAP TOWARDS THAT STATE BE OFFICIALLY AND OPENLY ACKNOWLEDGED AND DECLARED BY THE ISRAELIS.

>> THERE SEEMS TO BE NO PROGRESS IN THAT REGARD.

BUT CLEARLY THE ISRAELIS, THE AMERICANS, MANY, MANY PEOPLE WANT TO SEE HAMAS DISARMED.

HAMAS HAS RESPONDED TO THIS RESOLUTION BASICALLY SAYING IT WON'T.

I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WAS PART OF THE CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT.

MAYBE I'M WRONG.

BUT WHO IS GOING TO DISARM?

HO HOW WILL THEY BE DISARMED?

THE RESOLUTION, I BELIEVE, IS ALSO ABOUT A STABILIZATION FORCE WITHOUT WHICH NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN GAZA.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, YES.

ORIGINALLY, I THINK THE PLAN WAS THAT THE QATARIS AND TURKS WHO HAVE HUGE SWAY OVER HAMAS WOULD CONVINCE HAMAS TO DISARM.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

THE SAUDIS HAVE LESS, YOU KNOW, INFLUENCE OVER HAMAS, AS SIMILARLY THE UAE.

SO THIS INTERNATIONAL FORCE MAY HAVE TO DO IT.

I DON'T KNOW, SEE HOW IT CAN BE DONE.

THERE ARE -- THE SAUDIS WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE TROOPS TO THE INTERNATIONAL STABILIZATION FORCE.

THE SADDUCEES SAY ONCE HAMAS IS DISARMED, THE ISRAELIS WITHDRAW WE WILL HELP WITH FINANCIALLY REBUILDING GAZA AND HELPING RESTRUCTURE AND REFORM THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

THAT'S THE KIND OF SAUDI ROLE ESSENTIALLY THAT'S ON OFFER.

ARE .

>> WELL, OKAY.

THAT STILL SEEMS TO BE STUCK THEN.

SO GIVEN THAT ASPECT SEEMS TO BE UNRESOLVED AT THE MOMENT AND SHOWING NO SIGN OF BEING RESOLVED, NO SIGN OF MAYBE, YOU KNOW, ANY IMMEDIATE RECOGNITION THEREFORE OR NORMALIZATION WITH ISRAEL, WHAT ABOUT WANTING THE F- 35 s?

APPARENTLY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SAUDI ARABIA WANTS.

YOU HEARD IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE THAT ONE REPORTER SAID TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, DO YOU ACCEPT THAT GIVING THE SAUDI ARABIANS F- 35s, THAT WILL PUT THEM AT PARITY WITH THE ISRAELI F-35s.

THE ISRAELIS DON'T WANT THAT.

ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID YES, AND HAS HE SAID YES, OR IS HE JUST FLOATING IT ON THE F-35s?

>> THE WAY I SEE THE PRESIDENT --THE PRESIDENT IS BASICALLY USING THE F-35 AS A SYMBOL, SAYING ALL AMERICAN KIT, ALL AMERICAN WEAPONRY IS AVAILABLE TO YOU SAUDIS.

THIS IS A SIGN OF HOW WARMLY HE FEELS TOWARDS SAUDI ARABIA AS AN ALLY.

THE SAUDIS ARE SAYING THAT'S WONDERFUL, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE WANT THE F-35.

WHETHER OR NOT THEY BUY THE F-35, TO MY MIND, A VERY BIG QUESTION AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE PLATFORM ITSELF, YOU KNOW, HAS A U. S. KILL-SWITCH ON.

YOU CAN'T MOVE THE MACHINE FROM ONE BASE TO ANOTHER WITHIN SAUDI ARABIA WITHOUT AMERICAN PERMISSION.

IT WILL TAKE TEN YEARS BEFORE DELIVERY COMES BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER COUNTRIES WAITING FOR THE MACHINE.

ALSO, THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAS SHOWN THAT DRONES ARE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN AIRPLANES.

SO I THINK THE SAUDIS ARE TELLING TRUMP, YOU KNOW, WE WANT EVERYTHING YOU CAN OFFER US, WE ARE GOING TO INVEST END ITS AMOUNTS OF MONEY.

THEY ARE TRYING TO PLEASE HIM SO THEY CAN GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF SIGNING ALL THESE AGREEMENTS.

THE MOST IMPORTANT MUCH WHICH ARE, I THINK, THREE AGREEMENTS.

FIRST, A MUTUAL DEFENSE AGREEMENT.

SECOND, AN A. I. AGREEMENT.

THIRD, A NUCLEAR POWER AGREEMENT.

>> YEAH.

JUST TO NOTE, OF COURSE, THE U. S. DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY IS ALSO VERY RELUCTANT ON THE F-35s BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THAT TECHNOLOGY GETTING INTO CHINESE HAN HANDS BY SAUDI ARABIA.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FINANCES.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SOUNDED LIKE AN AUCTIONEER.

I HAVE GOT TO CALL FOR 600 BILLION HERE, DO I HEAR A TRILLION?

HE WENT BACK AND FORTH.

FINALLY, PRINCE MOHAMMED MOHAMMED BASICALLY SAID, YEAH, TOMORROW YOU WILL PROBABLY GET A TRILLION.

BUT THERE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE.

ONE IS THAT THERE IS PLENTY OF REPORTING THAT SAUDI ARABIA IS RUNNING OUT OF THAT KIND OF MONEY.

THEY HAVE TO BACK OFF SOME OF THE BIG INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS, THE VERY HIFALUTIN, HIGH- TECH, YOU KNOW, CITIES IT PLANNED IN THE DESERT AND THE LIKE.

AND TWO, THE CONTROVERSIAL THAT TRUMP SORT OF ADDRESSED WITH CRITICISM OF TRUMP FAMILY MEMBERS GOING INTO BUSINESS AND PROFITING IN TERMS OF SAUDI GOVERNMENT ASSETS.

WHERE DO YOU THINK ALL THAT IS LEADING?

AND HOW STRESSED ARE THE SAUDI FINANCES?

>> OKAY.

WE NEED TO DISENTANGLE SOL OF THESE ISSUES.

THE SADDUCEES HAVE LOT OF MONEY BUT THEY HAVE TO INVEST IT DOMESTIC, TO TRY TO MAKE THEMSELVES MORE INDEPENDENT AND OR LESS DEPARTMENT ENT ON OIL REVENUE.

THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF DOMESTIC INVESTMENT.

IF YOU LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE CROWN PRINCE, HE SAID WE WILL INVEST IN CHIPS AND SO ON.

HE MEANT WE, SAUDI ARABIA, NEED CHIPS.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHATEVER MONEY HE IS SPENDING IN THE UNITED STATES HAS TO CONTRIBUTE DIRECTLY TO HIS OWN DOMESTIC TRANSFORMATION AND ECONOMIC DIVERSIFICATION PROJECTS.

SO THE MONEY, IF IT COMES, HAS TO, AS IT WERE, GO BACK TO REBUILD AND HELP REBUILD SAUDI ARABIA AND MODERNIZE IT.

AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRUMP'S FAMILY GETTING INVOLVED IN BUSINESS, FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS NO TRUMP BUSINESS IN SAUDI ARABIA AS FAR AS I KNOW.

THERE ARE PROMISES OF POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, TRUMP BUILDINGS BEING BUILT THERE AND SO ON.

BUT TO BE HONEST AND TO BE FAIR, EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD CERTAINLY IN THE THIRD WORLD AND IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD IS MAKING PROMISES TO TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY FOR BUSINESS.

SO YOU HAVE THIS IN TURKEY.

WE HAVE THE INDONESIAN PRESIDENT SAYING HOW CAN I CONTACT YOUR SON ERIC AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS?

SO EVERYONE IN THE UAE, QATAR, EVERYONE IS BASICALLY IN THE BUSINESS OF TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, PLEASE THE TRUMP FAMILY AND OTHER, BY THE WAY, OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

IT'S NOT JUST TRUMP'S FAMILY THAT'S BENEFITING.

OTHERS ARE, TOO.

THIS IS A SYSTEMIC ISSUE AND IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH DOMESTIC AMERICAN POLITICS THAN WITH THESE FOREIGNERS WHO BASICALLY WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE WHEREVER THEY CAN TO BENEFIT THEIR OWN COUNTRY'S INTERESTS.

>> YOU PRETTY MUCH HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THAT ONE.

AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH PROFESSOR BERNARD HAYKEL.

THANK YOU FOR BEING US WITH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NOW THE THREAT OF A U. S. WAR WITH VENEZUELA KEEPS RISING.

NOW PRESIDENT TRUMP OPENLY IS MUSING ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE THE COUNTRY THAT HE CLAIMS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AN INFLUX OF DRUGS INTO THE UNITED STATES AFTER STRIKING BOATS, WHICH THEY SAY CARRIED CARTEL LEADERS, THE PRESIDENT IS CONSIDERING WHETHER TO STRIKE VENEZUELA ITSELF AND EVEN OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE REGION.

AT THE SAME TIME, TRUMP AND MADURO SAY THEY ARE OPEN TO DIALOGUE WITH EACH OTHER.

STEFANO POZZEBON IS IN CARACAS WITH THE LATEST.

STEFANO, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

SO WHICH IS IT?

WHAT'S THE FEELING ON THE GROUND?

IS THERE ANY CHANCE PEOPLE ARE THINKING OF POTENTIAL NEGOTIATIONS, OR ARE PEOPLE HUNKERING DOWN FOR A MILITARY ATTACK?

>> I THINK PEOPLE THAT YOU SPEAK WITH HERE, CHRISTIANN, IN CARACAS AND IN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE OPPOSITION AND REGULAR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THESE NEWS IN THE LAST FEW DAYS AND WEEKS, THEY DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONE MORE CHANCE, ONE LAST CHANCE PERHAPS, TO NEGOTIATIONS.

LET'S REMEMBER THAT THIS IS A COUNTRY AND A GOVERNMENT IN PARTICULAR, THE MADURO GOVERNMENT, THAT HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN NEGOTIATIONS BEFORE WITH EVERYONE FROM THE QATARIS, TO THE NORWEGIANS, TO SEVERAL OTHER INTERNATIONAL BODIES AND MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITION, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR EXAMPLE, AND SOME NEGOTIATIONS WITH MADURO TO NO SUCCESS IN PART.

AND I THINK THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBLICANS, THIS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, WILL GIVE ONE LAST CHANCE.

>> THIS IS WHY, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST YESTERDAY, ON MONDAY NIGHT, IN HIS WEEKLY TELEVISION SHOW, MADURO SAID THAT HE WAS READY TO SPEAK TO DONALD TRUMP FACE TO FACE.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> SO THIS COUNTRY IS IN PEACE.

THIS COUNTRY WILL CONTINUE TO BE AT PEACE, AND IN THE UNITED STATES ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TALK TO VENEZUELA WILL TALK.

FACE TO FACE.

WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM.

>> I THINK WHAT IS CRUCIAL IS THAT THE MESSAGE FROM MADURO HAS BEEN, FRANKLY, CONSISTENT IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS, SINCE AT LEAST WE'VE SEEN THIS DISPLAY OF MILITARY FORCES OFF THE COAST OF VENEZUELA.

IT'S NOT THAT HE IS SAYING THAT NOW JUST BECAUSE THERE IS THE LARGEST AIRCRAFT CARRIER IN THE WORLD THAT IS STATIONED AGAIN IN THE CARIBBEAN IN FRONT OF THE VENEZUELAN COAST, BUT THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HEAR THESE MESSAGES HAVE INDEED ARRIVED TO DONALD TRUMP.

MADURO, FOR EXAMPLE, YESTERDAY REVEALED THAT HE HAD WRITTEN A LETTER TO DONALD TRUMP SUGGESTING TALKS AND ASKING FOR A MEETING AS EARLY AS SEPTEMBER 6.

WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW MORE THAN WHAT MADURO STANDS FOR, WHAT IS DONALD TRUMP TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE WHETHER DIPLOMACY WILL GET HIM.

>> WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE --YOU SORT OF TOUCHED ON IT.

ORDINARY PEOPLE ARE UNDER SO MUCH STRESS.

THE POVERTY, THE DISORGANIZATION.

OBVIOUSLY, OPPOSITION PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATE WHO ACTUALLY WON THE ELECTION.

WHAT DO THEY THINK?

WHAT ARE THEY BRACING FOR?

>> I THINK IT'S A MIX OF EMOTIONS.

I THINK YOU COVERED IT REALLY WELL, CHRISTIAN AN.

IF YOU SPEAK TO MOST OF VENEZUELANS, ONE LEVEL THEY ARE USED TO THIS GEOPOLITICAL TENSIONS AND CRISIS.

I HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE 2016 COVERING THIS STORY, AND YOU HAVE HAD MASSIVE STREET PROTESTS BACK IN 2014, THEN '17, THEN '19.

YOU HAD THE EXPERIENCE, A LEADER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY THAT HAD GROUNDS TO SELF-DECLARE HIMSELF AS THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLIC, THEN THAT LED TO NOTHING.

THEN THE PANDEMIC, AND THEN YES, LAST YEAR, JUST LAST YEAR THIS MASSIVE MOVEMENT THAT CAME TOGETHER TO OUST MADURO WITH DEMOCRATIC TOOLS BY WINNING AN ELECTION AND THEN FINALLY MADURO NOT GIVING AN INCH AND NOT STEPPING DOWN.

I THINK THAT A THERE IS SOME -- THE REASON OF SOME FRUSTRATION OF COURSE, THAT IS WIDESPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, LET'S NOT FORGET THAT THE ECONOMIC CRISIS THAT IS HERE.

WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS.

THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN IN DIRE, DIRE ECONOMIC STRAITS.

RIGHT NOW IT'S A COMPANY THAT HAS A 400% INFLATION RATE YEAR ON YEAR.

THAT'S WHY, WHEN YOU SPEAK TO PEOPLE, THEY ARE MORE WORRIED WHAT THEY ARE PUTTING ON THE TABLE AT DINNERTIME THAN WHAT THEY BELIEVE TRUMP WILL DO WITH THEIR PRESIDENT.

>> WELL, THANK YOU, STEFANO POZZEBON, FOR ALL THAT FROM VENEZUELA.

AND WE ARE GOING TO TURN NOW FOR MORE POLICY CONVERSATION WITH JUAN GONZALEZ.

HE IS FORMER U. S. NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIAL FOR THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE WHO WORKED AN LATIN AMERICA.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU JUST HEARD WHAT STEFANO SAID, LAYING THE TABLE FROM CARACAS.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT HIS, YOU KNOW, CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT MADURO SAID, WHAT HE SAID ON TELEVISION, THE LETTERS HE HAS BEEN SENDING TO THE WHITE HOUSE, WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP AS WELL.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS STANDS?

IS IT GIVING A BIT MORE ROOM FOR POTENTIALLY NEGOTIATIONS, OR DO YOU THINK WITH THE MILITARY, YOU KNOW, SIGNALING, THAT IT IS GOING TO BE A MILITARY STRIKE?

>> WELL, THE EXISTENCE OF DIALOGUE OR CHANNEL FOR DIALOGUE IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT NOT LEAST OF WHICH BECAUSE THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR MISCALCULATION WHERE YOU HAVE MILITARY ASSETS OPERATING NEAR TERRITORIAL LINES AND YOU COULD ACTUALLY HAVE SOME SORT OF ACCIDENT.

BUT I THINK THE REAL END GAME IS THE U. S. PRESSURE CAMPAIGN LOOKS LESS LIKE A MARCH TOWARDS WAR AND MORE LIKE A NEGOTIATION STRATEGY TO RAISE THE COST OF THE STATUS QUO AND FORCE MADURO TO A POSITION.

THAT SAID, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE CONTOURS TV THAT CONVERSATION.

MADURO LOST THE ELECTION.

HE SHOULD LEAVE POWER PEACEFULLY.

BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO, AS JOE BIDEN SAYS, YOU NEVER BACK A MAN INTO A CORNER WHERE HIS ONLY WAY OUT IS OVER YOU.

WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO PUT ON THE TABLE?

POLITICAL GUARANTEES, SECURITY GUARANTEES?

THE CONTEXT OF THAT CONVERSATION WILL BE KEY TO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

>> BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK, READING THE TEA LEAVES, NOT JUST THE TEA LEAVES, THE OVERT, YOU KNOW, POLICY COMING FROM WASHINGTON, THAT, FOR INSTANCE, MADURO OFFERED A LOT, RIGHT?

AND YOU CAN CONFIRM TO ME.

THERE WERE NEGOTIATIONS.

HE OFFERED TO GET RID OF ALL OF THE FORCES THAT THE AMERICANS DIDN'T LIKE FROM THE CHINESE TO THE IRANIANS TO EVERYBODY ELSE.

HE OFFERED A MAJOR SHARE, PARTNERSHIP IN VENEZUELA'S NATURAL RESOURCES, AND ON AND ON AND ON.

THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO WORK IN WASHINGTON.

THE MOVE TOWARDS REGIME CHANGE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN ON THE ASCENDENT.

>> CERTAINLY.

BUT I THINK IF PRESIDENT TRUMP PUTS IN FRONT OF MADURO THAT THE ONLY OPTION IS FOR HIM TO LEAVE POWER, IT WON'T ACTUALLY LEAD TO MADURO REMOVING POWER.

I THINK THERE IS ALSO THIS MISCONCEPTION THAT ALL OFF THIS IS A PRELUDE TO REGIME CHANGE BY FORCE.

THE REALITY IS THAT REMOVING MADURO IS NOT THE HARD PART.

THE HARD PART REALLY COMES AFTER.

SO I THINK IS THERE --IN THE OVAL OFFICE PRESSER YESTERDAY, THE PRESIDENT WAS ASKED IF THERE WAS ANY -- WHICH HE WOULD ALLOW MADURO TO STAY.

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTOURS OF THAT CONVERSATION.

WHAT MORE CAN MADURO PUT ON THE TABLE, INCLUDING WHEN IT COMES TO SEARCH VENEZUELAN MIGRANTS BACK TO THE COUNTRY, WHICH IS THIS ADMINISTRATION'S TOP PRIORITY IN LATIN AMERICA OVERALL.

>> IS IT A MORE TOP PRIORITY THAN ALLOWING DEMOCRACY TO RETURN TO VENEZUELA?

I MEAN, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I TO THAT THE MAIN OPPOSITION LEADER, MACHADO, PRETTY MUCH SUPPORTS THE MILITARY PRESSURE ON VENEZUELA.

SHE HAS SAID THAT IF THEY HAD ALLOWED MADURO ALLOWED THE ELECTION RESULTS TO STAND, IT WOULD BE A REGIME CHANGE.

SO WOULD THE U. S. ALLOW MADURO TO STAY IN POWER?

>> WELL, I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT, I THINK, THE DIFFERENT PATS BY SECRETARY RUBIO AND RICK CORNELL.

WHEN RICK CORNELL TRAVELED TO ENCAMPMENT EARLY IN THE ADMINISTRATION, HIS FOCUS WAS ON EVERYTHING HE LAID OUT, WHICH HE CALLED AN AMERICA FIRST STRATEGY TOWARDS VENEZUELA, ACCESS TO VENEZUELA'S RESERVES, DRIVING A WEDGE BETWEEN VENEZUELA, CHINA, IRAN AND THE RUSSIANS.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S COMMENTARY, HE HAS NOT TALKED ABOUT DEMOCRACY, ABOUT YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY HAVING A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION.

BUT AGAIN WHAT I WOULD SAY, EVEN IF THEY TRY TO, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH PRESSURE OR MILITARY FORCE, I THINK WHAT HISTORY TELLS US IS THAT TRANSITIONS ONLY SUCCEED WHEN THERE IS SEQUENCING.

NOT A WINNER TAKE ALL PURGE.

THAT MEANS POWER SHARING, SECURITY GUARANTEES, HUMANITARIAN STABILIZATION AND A PATH TOWARDS ELECTIONS ONCE BASIC ORDER IS RESTORED.

I SAID THIS BEFORE THAT THE IDEA THAT YOU JUST PUT IN THE RIGHTFUL ELECTED PRESIDENT, FLORES, AND THEN THAT VENEZUELA WILL RETURN TO NORMAL DOES NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT VENEZUELA ISN'T A VACUUM.

IT'S A STATE WITH OVERLAPPING INTELLIGENCE SERVICES, PARAMILITARY SOURCES ACTORS THAT HAVE SIGNIFICANT FORCE IN THE COUNTRY, INSURGENT GROUPS.

THAT'S NOT ONE PRESSURE.

I THINK THIS IS GOING TO END UP HAVING TO BE AN ONGOING NEGOTIATION.

THE QUESTION I HAVE IS DOES DONALD TRUMP HAVE THE SPACE FOR IT OR IS HE ACTUALLY GOING TO COMMITTEE AND WILL IT ESCALATE, NUMBER ONE, MISSILE ATTACKS INTO VENEZUELAN TERRITORY OR MORE BROADLY ACTUALLY HAVING BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO ENSURE THE SECURITY.

BUT THERE IS REALLY NO STOMACH FOR 50,000 TROOP MOBILIZATION OR STABILIZATION FORCE IN THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK WHAT'S MORE LIKELY IS THAT THE MILITARY PRESSURE BECOMES A NEGOTIATING TOOL, NOT A MECHANISM THAT REMOVES MADURO.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT, YOU KNOW, OVERT MILITARY STRATEGY AND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

SO TRUMP ACCUSES MADURO OF LEADING, QUOTE, CARTEL DE LOS SOLES.

HE CALLS THAT AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS BASICALLY A VIOLENT DRUG CARTEL.

BUT APPARENTLY IT'S NOT.

IT'S A NAME FOR --IT'S A GENERAL NAME.

THERE IS NO SPECIFIC CARTEL BY THAT NAME.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

THEY DESCRIBED IT AS THE LARGEST CARTEL IN THE WORLD.

I THINK CARTEL DE LOS SOLES WOULDN'T BE IN THE TOP TEN.

AGAIN, 5% OF THE COCAINE THAT COMES INTO THE UNITED STATES COMES FROM VENEZUELA.

IT'S A TRANS-SHIPMENT PORMT.

THE CARTEL DE LOS SOLES IS A GENERAL TERM AS YOU MENTIONED.

THEY ARE F MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN DRUG TRAFFICKING.

BUT THEY ARE NOT A THREAT.

WHEN THE COLOMBIANS THINK ABOUT THE SECURITY THREATS AND DRUG ORGANIZATIONS, TRAFFICKING ORGANIZATIONS THEY ARE DEALING WITH, CARTEL DE LOS SOLES, MORE TREN DE ARAGUA ARE IN THE TOP TEN LIST.

THESE ARE CRIMINAL ACTORS, CRIMINAL GROUPS, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE THREAT THAT REQUIRES THE UNITED STATES TO SEND A CARRIER STRIKE GROUP TO THE CARIBBEAN.

WE ARE BRINGING IN NUCLEAR WEAPON TO A KNIFE FIGHT.

SO THIS IS REALLY, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, REALLY ABOUT CHARACTERIZES A COUNTER DRUG OPERATION BUT IT'S ABOUT PRESSURING FOR REGIME CHANGE.

>> OKAY.

SO IF THE STATED IS THAT THIS IS TO COUNTER NARCO TERRORISTS AS THEY SAY, IS THAT A LEGITIMATE CAUSE FOR THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS WOULD APPROVE AND DOES THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS HAVE TO APPROVE ANY STRIKES IF THIS WERE TO GO TO WAR OR NOT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, IT'S --I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ADMINISTRATION HASN'T PUSHED FOR THIS.

THEY HAVE THE EXECUTIVE.

THEY HAVE CONGRESS.

THEY HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, MAJORITY ON THE SUPREME COURT.

WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF?

THEY SHOULD HAVE AN OPEN DEBATE SO AMERICANS CAN DECIDE WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO EMPLOY U. S. FORCES TOWARDS.

THE CHALLENGE HERE IS THAT THE STRIKES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE --THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE DISCLOSED STRIKES, THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 80 CASUALTIES APPROXIMATELY --DO NOT MEET THE STANDARD OF U. N. CHARTER OR INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AS A CREDITABLE USE OF FORCE.

SO DESIGNATING A GANG AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION IS NOT A LICENSE TO USE LETHAL FORCE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NO EMINENT DANGER.

THIS ARGUMENT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION MADE OF AN ENVISION, IT WAS STRUCK DOWN WHEN THE ADMINISTERING TRIED TO USE IT TO USE THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT TO DEPORT VENEZUELANS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.

IT WAS STRUCK DOWN TO THE SIXTH CIRCUIT, WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT, NOW WITH THE FIFTH CIRCUIT.

SO CYNICAL READ OF WHATEVER THE ADMINISTRATION IS DOING IS THAT IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY CONTINUE TO DEPORT VENEZUELANS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.

THE MAJORITY OF MIGRANTS BEING SEND TO THIRD COUNTRIES OF VENEZUELANS.

RIGHT NOW THE MATTER IS BEFORE THE FIFTH CIRCUIT.

THE CASE WAS HEARD AROUND THE TIME THE DEPLOYMENT STARTED.

THAT'S ONE VIEW WHY THE ADMINISTRATION IS FOCUSING ON A COUNTER DRUG, COUNTERTERROR OPERATION.

ALSO A WAY TO SELL IT TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

IF YOU ARE NOT SOMEBODY WHO IS FOLLOWING THIS ISSUE CLOSELY, YOU WON'T SHED A TEAR FOR A DEAD DRUG TRAFFICKER.

YOU MAY SUPPORT THE USE OF THE MILITARY AGAINST A CARTEL, BUT I THINK WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THAT FUNDAMENTALLY DOESN'T WORK, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ADMINISTRATION CUT $26 BILLION OFF OF DEMAND REDUCTION AND TREATMENT PROGRAMS FOR DRUGS WHICH ACTUALLY DOES WORK.

>> OKAY.

SO ON THE OTHER ISSUE OF ACTUALLY GETTING ALLIES TO KEEP, YOU KNOW, HELPING WITH THIS KIND OF SITUATION, IF IT WAS REALLY ABOUT DRUGS, THIS U. S. MILITARY ACTION HAS ALIENATED ALLIES NOT JUST IN EUROPE AND -- BUT ALSO IN THE REGION.

SO FRANCE SAYS THE STRIKES WERE A VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

CANADA, THE NETHERLANDS ARE DISTANCING THEMSELVES AND COLOMBIA WANTS WASHINGTON'S CLOSEST PARTNER HAS CUT ITS INTELLIGENCE SHARING AND AS OF LAST YEAR 80% OF COCAINE DISRUPTIONS RELIED ON INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS ACCORDING TO THE U. S. DEFENSE OFFICIALS AND THAT WAS MOSTLY COLOMBIA.

WITHOUT THEIR HELP, THEN THIS WHOLE IDEA OF INTERDICTING NARCOTICS IS MADE MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, RIGHT?

>> INDEED.

AND I THINK THERE WERE REPORTS ABOUT THE UK POTENTIALLY CUTTING OFF SOME INTEL SHARING.

BUT I THINK THE KEY ONE IS COLOMBIA INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN CENTRAL TO OUR EFFORT NOT JUST COMBATTING DRUG TRAFFICKING, BUT AS A RENAL INTELLIGENCE PLATFORM.

WE HAVE NO BETTER PARTNER THAN COLOMBIA.

AND SO THE REGION REALLY HAS A MEANINGFUL ROLE TO PLAY BECAUSE WITHOUT, NUMBER ONE, REGIONAL BUY IN, THE U. S. OWNS THE ENTIRE AFTERMATH.

BRAZIL AND COLOMBIA AND THE CARIBBEAN STATES WILL DEAL WITH THE REFUGEES, THE SECURITIES SPILL OVER IN THE ECONOMICS F THERE IS NO REALLY SHARED FRAMEWORK.

BUT AGAIN 95% OF THE COCAINE THAT COMES IN THE UNITED STATES COMES FROM COLOMBIA.

WHEN YOU LOSE INTELLIGENCE COOPERATION WITH A KEY PARTNER THERE THAT YOU REALLY ARE CUTTING YOUR NOSE OFF TO SPITE YOUR FACE.

I WOULD SAY THE STATISTICS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS USED ABOUT HOW THE DRUGS THAT ARE BEING TRAFFICKED FROM VENEZUELA ARE LEADING TO THE DEATHS OF 50,000 OR MORE AMERICANS, I THINK WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IS FENTANYL THAT'S COMING PRIMARILY FROM MEXICO AND OVER 80% OF WHICH ENTERS THE UNITED STATES CARRIED BY AMERICAN CITIZENS.

SO AGAIN THE TOOL THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS USING IS NOT THE ONE THAT WILL ACTUALLY ACHIEVE THE INTENDED RESULT.

IT BEGS THE QUESTION, IS THIS REALLY A KIND OF NARCOTICS OPERATION OR IS IT AN EFFORT TO ACHIEVE REGIME CHANGE OR A BETTER DEAL TORE TRUMP WHEN IT COMES TO VENEZUELA.

>> AND HE IS ALSO MUSING ABOUT MAYBE HITTING MEXICO, MAYBE OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW.

NEGOTIATING TACTICS MAYBE.

THANK YOU, JUAN GONZALEZ, FOR YOUR BIRDS EYE PERCH EXPERIENCE THERE.

THANKS SO MUCH.

NEXT, TO THE NEW YORK --NEW NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY, "THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR," WHICH EXPLORES A TWO- YEAR NEIGHBORHOOD DISPUTE IN FLORIDA THAT RESULTED IN THE TRAGIC SHOOTING DEATH OF AJIKE OWENS, A MOTHER OF FOUR.

THE STORY UNFOLDS ENTIRELY THROUGH POLICE BODY CAM FOOTAGE.

RAISES URGENT QUESTIONS ABOUT STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS A ALLOW THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE IF A PERSON BELIEVES THEY ARE IN IMMINENT DANGER.

HERE IS A LOOK AT THE TRAILER.

>> JOINED BY DRLKTER GEETA GANDBHIR AND PAMELA DIAS, THE MOTHER OF AJIKE OWENS TO DISCUSS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THE DOCUMENTARY AND WHAT THEY HOPE VIEWERS WILL TAKE AWAY FROM IT.

>> THANKS.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

GEETA, YOU HAVE DONE SEVERAL SOCIAL JUSTICE FOCUSED FILMS.

THE MOST ON NETFLIX, "THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR," AND IF FOCUSES ON THE DEATH OF THE SHOOTING OF 35-YEAR-OLD AJIKE OWENS OF FLORIDA, A WOMAN WHO WAS A MOTHER OF FOUR, WHO WAS SHOT BY HER NEIGHBOR, SUSAN LAWRENCE.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS STORY AND WHY YOU DECIDED TO TELL IT.

>> SURE.

SO THE BACKGROUND TO THE STORY IS THAT AJIKE OWENS WAS A FAMILY FRIEND.

SHE WAS MY SISTER- IN-LAW'S BEST FRIEND.

WHEN THIS HAPPENED, WE WERE IMMEDIATELY CALLED, MY PARTNER, WHO IS ALSO A PRODUCER ON THE FILM, AND I WERE ON THE GROUND IMMEDIATELY TO TRY TO SUPPORT PAMELA DIAS AND HER FAMILY.

AS FAR AS KEEPING THE STORY IN THE NEWS, THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WANTED TO DO BECAUSE WE WERE CONCERNED THAT DUE TO STANDARD YOUR GROUND LAWS THAT EXIST IN FLORIDA, THAT SUSAN LAWRENCE WOULD WALK FROM THE CRIME.

AND WE HAVE THE PRECURSOR OF TRAYVON MARTIN THAT I THINK IS STEEPED IN THE NATIONAL CONSCIENCE AND THAT WAS, AGAIN, IT WAS A CONCERN.

SO ABOUT TWO MONTHS LATER, AFTER WE BECAME INVOLVED IN SUPPORTING THE FAMILY, WE RECEIVED THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE FROM PAMELA'S LAWYERS, BENJAMIN CRUMP AND ANTHONY THOMAS.

THEY USED THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT TO ACQUIRE ALL OF THE MATERIALS THAT THE POLICE HAD RECORDED IN THE PROCESS OF THIS CASE.

AND PRIOR TO THE MURDER.

AND SO WHEN WE GOT OUR HANDS ON THAT AND DREW THE MATERIALS, WE WERE ASKED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE USEFUL FOR THE MEDIA OR MAYBE EVEN THEN FOR THE LAWYERS.

WE REALIZED THAT THERE WAS A MUCH BIGGER STORY HERE BECAUSE THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE STRETCHED BACK TWO YEARS.

SO THAT'S HOW THE FILM BEGAN.

>> GEETA, WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE FOOTAGE, WHAT SPLICE SURPRISED YOU?

I SUSPECT YOU WERE SUSPECTING THE NIGHT OF.

BUT TO HAVE TWO YEARS WORTH OF VIDEO.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK FOR US, AS YOU MENTIONED, USUALLY WHEN A CRIME OCCURS, AS FAR AS POLICE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE, IT REALLY USUALLY IS ONLY THE NIGHT OF.

YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME SECURITY CAMERA FOOTAGE, MIGHT CAPTURE SOMETHING.

BUT WE WERE SHOCKED TO SEE THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH POLICE WERE CALLED TO THE SCENE AND, AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, IT SPANNED BACK TWO YEARS.

>> FAM LA, FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT HAVE SEEN THE FILM, TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT AJIKE AS A DAUGHTER, A MOTHER, A FRIEND.

>> YES.

SO AJIKE WAS A SINGLE MOTHER OF FOUR CHILDREN.

SHE WAS SUPER MOM, I WOULD SAY .

SHE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN HER CHILDREN'S LIVES.

SHE HAD HER CHILDREN IN PRIVATE SCHOOL.

SHE INSTILLED IN THEM A DEEP FAITH.

SHE HAD CORE VALUES.

SHE INSTILLED IN THEM RESPECT FOR THEIR ELDERS.

AS YOU SEE IN THE FILM WHERE SHE TELLS HER SON -- OR SHE TELLS THE POLICE RECORDING HER SON THAT IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AN ADULT, YOU KNOW, TO TAKE IT AND TELL HER AND SHE'LL TAKE IT UP WITH THE ADULT.

THE KIDS WERE INVOLVED IN A LOT OF EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES.

SHE WAS THE CHEER MOM.

SHE WAS THE FOOTBALL TEAM MOM.

I ALWAYS JOKE AND SAY THAT WE HAVE THIS GREAT EXTENDED FAMILY BECAUSE EVERYONE THAT SHE CONSIDERED A FRIEND WAS FAMILY TO HER.

SHE HAD GREAT DREAMS, ASPIRATIONS.

JUST A JOY.

VERY COMEDIC, FUNNY, LOVED.

JUST A BEAUTIFUL PERSON.

>> BEFORE THIS EVENT, DID YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR THAT SHOT YOUR DAUGHTER?

>> I DID NOT KNOW HER BY NAME.

SHE ALWAYS REFERENCED HER AS A NEIGHBOR.

AND SHE WOULD TELL ME, MY DAUGHTER WOULD TELL ME THAT THERE WAS A WHITE NEIGHBOR THAT WOULD HARASS THE CHILDREN.

AND THEN SHE TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS AN INCIDENT WHERE SHE WAVED A GUN.

I COULDN'T WRAP MY MIND AROUND THE FACT THAT MY NEIGHBOR WOULD SHOW A GUN TO CHILDREN.

IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM REAL TO ME AT THAT TIME.

BUT, OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS.

>> SUSAN, SHE WOULD COME OUT AND SCREAM AND THE LANGUAGE AROUND THESE LITTLE KIDS.

>> SUSAN WOULD?

>> YEAH.

OH.

>> DESCRIBE TO ME WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.

>> THE "F" WORD.

THE "B" WORD.

>> B WORD AND THE "F" WORD.

>> SHE CALLED THEM SLAVES.

SHE TOLD THEM THE FIELD THEY WERE ON WASN'T THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD.

>> SO IT DEFINITELY HAD MAJOR RACIAL COMPONENT TO IT.

AND SUSAN'S --SUSAN WAS NEVER IN FEAR.

SUSAN WAS MOTIVATED BY HATE, BIASES, AND RACISM.

>> GEETA, WE SEE SO MANY DIFFERENT INTERACTIONS OF THE POLICE THAT COME TO SUSAN'S DOOR, THAT COME TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT TALK TO THE KIDS, THAT TALK TO THE FAMILIES, BLACK POLICE, WHITE POLICE, MALE, FEMALE.

WHAT WAS THEIR FAILURE HERE?

WHAT WAS --HOW DID RACE PLAY INTO THOSE INTERACTIONS?

>> I THINK WHAT IS SO FASCINATING THAT WE SAW IN THE FOOTAGE, AND I THINK WHAT YOU SEE IN THE FILM, IS THAT THERE WERE OVERALL SYSTEMIC FAILURES IN THIS CASE, AND THE POLICE SHOW UP ON SCENE MULTIPLE TIMES AND WHAT'S INTERESTING, AND I THINK WHEN, AGAIN, IN SHARING THIS WITH THE AUDIENCES, WHAT WE SEE IS THAT OUR BAR FOR THE POLICE IS SO LOW THAT WE SOMETIMES MISTAKE POLITENESS OR, AGAIN, THEM NOT SHOWING UP GUNS BLAZING, YOU KNOW, THROWING PEOPLE TO THE GROUND OR SHOOTING ANYONE AS CONFIDENCE.

AND I THINK WHAT HAPPENED HERE IS THAT SUSAN WAS TREATED AS A CLIENT.

AGAIN, BECAUSE SHE WAS THE PERSON WHO CALLED AGAIN AND AGAIN, SHE, AS AN OLDER WHITE WOMAN, WAS HANDLED WITH KID GLOVES AND JUST TREATED AS A NUISANCE, RIGHT, ULTIMATELY.

THE POLICE DID GET --SEEMED TO TIRE OF HER.

BUT THEY NEVER SAW HER AS A THREAT.

AND THEY NEVER SAW THE COMMUNITY, A MULTIRACIAL COMMUNITY, AS PEOPLE WHO WERE WORTH PROTECTING.

THEY NEVER SAW THEM AS, I THINK, AS IMPORTANT OR AS CITIZENS IN THE WAY THAT THEY SAW SUES IS ON.

SO THEY SORT OF - - THEY DISMISSED THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS ANY THREAT.

I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS WE WERE SO COMMITTED TO USING THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE IS BECAUSE IT IS EVIDENCE.

WE ARE FILMMAKERS FIRST, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLEARLY DOCUMENTED OR SHOWED THE AUDIENCE THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE POLICE.

SUSAN'S PERSPECTIVE AND THE COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THEM, YOU REALLY SEE THAT SUSAN WAS THE AGGRESSOR IN THIS CASE, AND THE POLICE AGAIN, THEY SHOULD HAVE MAYBE THE THIRD TIME SUSAN CALLED AND IT WAS UNFOUNDED, THEY SHOULD HAVE FLAGGED HER.

I DO BELIEVE IF SUSAN HAD BEEN A PERSON OF COLOR THAT THIS WOULD HAVE GONE VERY DIFFERENTLY.

>> GET ON THE GROUND!

>>ER .

>> HOLD ON.

>> OH, MY GOD!

>> IN THE FRONT.

>> SHERIFF'S OFFICE!

COME OUTSIDE WITH YOUR HANDS UP!

>> THE DAY AJIKE WAS SHOT, SHE HAD GONE OVER TO SUSAN'S HOUSE BECAUSE SUSAN ALLEGEDLY THREW ROLLERSKATES AT AJIKE'S CHILDREN, AND IT SNOWBALLED FROM THERE.

ACCORDING TO THE FACTS, SUSAN SHOT AJIKE THROUGH A BOLTED METAL DOOR AND HER DEFENSE TEAM CALLED ON THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT REMEMBER THAT FROM 2012 WHEN GEORGE ZIMMERMAN USED THAT DEFENSE WHEN HE SHOT TRAYVON MARTINS.

REFRESH US, WHAT ARE STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS?

>> THE SHORT VERSION, BASICALLY STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW STATES THAT YOU HAVE -- IT REMOVES THE DUTY TO RETREAT IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU'RE IN DANGER, THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT YOUR HOME.

AND, AGAIN, THIS LAW ACTUALLY -- IT'S REALLY BEING MISUSED.

IT CREATES FEAR .

IT EMBOLDENS PEOPLE TO SHOOT FIRST AND RATIONALIZE LATER.

STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW IS DEFINITELY A LAW THAT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, MODIFIED, TAKEN OFF.

IT EXISTS IN ABOUT 38 STATES, IF I BELIEVE, IN SOME FORM OR FASHION.

SO IT IS A VERY - -A LAW THAT BASICALLY ALLOWS PEOPLE TO WEAPONIZE IT AND LACK ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE A STATISTIC AT THE END OF THE FILM THAT SHOWS --SAYS THAT THESE LAWS HAVE BEEN LINKED TO AN 8 TO 11% INCREASE IN HOMICIDE RATES OR ROUGHLY 700 ADDITIONAL DEATHS EACH YEAR.

AND THERE ARE STATISTICS FROM THE FBI, THESE ARE TEN YEARS OLD NOW, CONTROLLING FOR OTHER VARIABLES, THE ODDS THAT A WHITE ON BLACK HOMICIDE IS RULED JUSTIFIED ARE 281% GREATER THAN WHEN A WHITE PERSON KILLS ANOTHER WHITE PERSON.

HOW DOES RACE PLAY INTO THAT FOUNDATIONAL LEVEL OF THIS POLICY THAT IS SO BROADLY ADAPTED IT IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> I THINK WHAT'S SO INTERESTING TO ME IS, AND I THINK THE FILM IS A MICRO COSOM OF THE BEST OF AMERICAN SOCIETY BUT ALSO THE WORST OF AMERICAN SOCIETY.

AND THE WORST IS THAT SORT OF THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT YOU SEE AND HOW --AND SYSTEMIC TREATMENTS.

AND I THINK THAT STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS, AGAIN, IT'S A PREDATORY LAW FALLING UNDER THE CASTLE DOCTRINE.

THE KEY PART IS THAT, IF YOU CAN PROVE OR FEEL THAT YOUR LIFE IS IN IMMINENT DANGER, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF WITHOUT HAVING THE DUTY TO RETREAT.

AND SO I THINK, AGAIN, THERE IS THIS ALMOST A PARANOIA IN OUR SOCIETY ABOUT THOSE AROUND US.

I THINK THOSE --I THINK THERE ARE MANY FACTORS HERE THAT --AND THAT IS A TOOL OF AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT ALSO USED TO POLARIZE AND DIVIDE US.

WE ARE, INSTEAD OF SORT OF LIVING TOGETHER AND LIVING IN COMMUNITY THE WAY THAT AJIKE AND HER NEIGHBORS DID, I THINK SUSAN SORT OF EMBODIES THOSE FEARS.

AND YOU SEE THIS PLAY OUT IN HISTORY TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AND IT'S PARTICULARLY WITH WHITE WOMEN, THE STORY OF EMMETT TILL IS REFLECTED ON THAT, THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE PUNISHED AND MURDERED FOR, IN SOME WAY, OFFENDING, EVEN IF THEY DO NOT, RIGHT, BUT A WHITE PERSON WILL CLAIM THAT THEY WERE SOMEHOW OFFENDED BY OR INSULTED BY OR, YOU KNOW, HARMED BY A BLACK PERSON, AND THE RESULT IS DEATH.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A DEATH SENTENCE FOR THE BLACK PERSON.

AND STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS ARE JUST AN EXTENSION OF THAT.

>> I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID IS WRONG.

I THINK YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE ALREADY DEPUTIES ON THE WAY.

>> THERE WAS TIMES I CALLED THEM AND DEPUTIES NEVER SHOWED UP.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

TWO MINUTES.

SO YOU - - >> TO ME IT WASN'T TWO MINUTES.

TO ME IT WAS MUCH LONGER.

IN MY MIND -- >> THERE IS ONLY ONE REALITY WHERE TIME EXISTS, AND I UNDERSTAND PERCEPTION OF TIME CAN BE DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

AND THE REALITY OF THINGS, YOU JUST DISCONNECTED, WITHIN TWO MINUTES A SHOT WAS FIRED THROUGH THAT DOOR.

>> PAMELA, SUSAN LAWRENCE RECENTLY DID AN INTERVIEW FROM THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY SHE IS SERVING 25 YEARS FOR.

AND IN THERE SHE EXPRESSES SOME REMORSE.

SHE SAID, I CAN'T TAKE IT BACK, I CAN'T REPLACE HER AND I AM SO SORRY IN REGARDS TO YOUR DAUGHTER.

SHE STILL CLAIMS YOUR GRANDCHILDREN REPEATEDLY THREATENED HER AN MAINTAINS SHE WAS FEARFUL FOR HER LIFE WHEN SHE SHOT.

WHAT'S, I GUESS, YOUR REACTION?

BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHE SAID TO THE POLICE FROM THE BEGINNING AT HER SENTENCING, AND EVEN NOW.

>> SO SUSAN HAS NEVER SHOWN ANY REAL REMORSE.

I SAT THROUGH ALL OF THE HEARINGS LEADING UP TO THE TRIAL, AND INCLUDING THE TRIAL.

SUSAN HAS ALWAYS EMBELLISHED THE TRUTH OR FLAT-OUT LIED.

THE FACT THAT SHE WOULD SAY THAT THE CHILDREN THREATENED HER IS LUDACRIS WHEN SHE IS THE ONE WHO TOOK MY GRANDCHILD'S POSSESSION, REFUSED TO GIVE IT BACK TO HIM, AND THREW AN OBJECT AT HIM.

SHE OFTEN FILMED THE CHILDREN WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING WITH AN ADULT IN AN AREA THAT DID NOT BELONG TO HER, DID NOT BELONG TO HER LANDLORD.

SHE CLEARLY WAS THE NUISANCE, CLEARLY WAS THE PROBLEM.

SHE ANTAGONIZED THEM REPEATEDLY.

ACCUSED --MADE ACCUSATIONS THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO STEAL HER CAR.

AND YOU SEE IN A DOCUMENTARY THAT THE KID DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE.

TO ACCUSE MY GRANDSON OF TRYING TO PUT THIS LITTLE PUPPY IN THE BACK OF HER TRUCK WHEN IT'S A DOG AS BIG AS HIM, THAT HE COULDN'T LIFT.

SO HER ACCUSATIONS ARE BASELESS, AND IT'S TYPICAL SUSAN, TYPICAL, AS THE KIDS WOULD SAY -- >> PAMELA, WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS FILM IS THESE REALLY DIFFICULT IMAGES OF YOUR GRANDCHILDREN HEARING THAT THEIR MOTHER IS GONE, AND WE ARE ALL COLLECTIVELY WATCHING THIS.

THAT MUST HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SEE THE FIRST TIME.

BUT THEN TO DECIDE, YEAH, I WANT THE REST OF, WELL, AMERICA OR THE WORLD TO SEE THIS, WHAT MADE YOU SAY, YES, LET'S GO FORWARD?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT WAS VERY HEART- WRENCHING, GUT-WRENCHING TO SEE MY GRANDCHILDREN IN SUCH DISTRESS.

BUT AFTER I LOST MY DAUGHTER IN THE MANNER IN WHICH I DID, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU READ ABOUT IN THE PAPER, YOU SEE ON THE NEWS.

THIS HAPPENS TO OTHER FAMILIES.

BUT THIS HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY, YOU KNOW.

QUESTIONING WHY.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO COME NEXT.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY, YOU KNOW.

WITH OUR GRIEVING, THE GRANDCHILDREN ARE GRIEVING, THE COMMUNITY IS GRIEVING.

I SAID TO MYSELF, IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN JUST GRIEF.

I CAN'T JUST BURY MY CHILD AND JUST WALK AWAY AND THAT'S THE END OF THE STORY.

MY DAUGHTER SAID THE WORLD WOULD KNOW HER NAME.

WE DON'T KNOW THE WHENS, THE WHYS AND THE HOWS, BUT THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD KNOWS HER NAME.

AND I HAD TO HONOR HER.

I HAD TO SHOW UP FOR HER.

I HAD TO BE HER VOICE.

THE MANNER IN WHICH SHE DIED OUT OF PREMISE OF STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW IS A CLEAR REPRESENTATION OF WHY THIS LAW NEEDS TO BE REPEALED.

AND FOR THAT REASON I SAID, YES, WE NEED, OUR FAMILY, OUR STORY WILL BE THE CALL TO ACTION.

WE'LL BE THE CATALYST TO MAKE REAL CHANGES IN OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR SOCIETY.

>> THE FILM IS ON NETFLIX NOW.

IT'S CALLED "THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR. "

PAMELA, I'M SO SAD FOR YOUR LOSS AND THE LOSS FOR YOUR GRANDCHILDREN.

GEETA GANDBHIR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE FILM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> IT'S REALLY A TRAGIC STORY AND AN IMPORTANT POLICY ISSUE TO KEEP AN EYE ON.

FINALLY, SHE IS THE HAPLESS BRITISH HARROW INWHO STOLE THE HEARTS OF THE WORLD.

NOW THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE BOOK BRIDGET JONES HAS BEEN IMMORTALIZED IN BRONZE.

AND WHO BETTER TO UNVEIL HER OWN STATUE THAN THE ALTER EGO AND ACTRESS RENEE ZELLWEGER WHO BROUGHT HER TO LIFE AND EARNED AN OSCAR NOMINATION IN THE PROCESS.

THE CHARACTER JOINS HARRY POTTER AND MARY POPPINS AS PERMANENT RESIDENTS OF LONDON'S LEICESTER SQUARE.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

GO TO OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

GOOD BUY FROM NEW YORK AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

> >> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDICE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

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