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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME.
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
ARGENTINA'S LEADER VISITS THE WHITE HOUSE.
WE LOOK AT THIS UNCONVENTIONAL FIGURE, HIS COZY FRIENDSHIP WITH TRUMP, AND WHY THE U.S.
IS BAILING HIS COUNTRY OUT.
AND .
A SIGH OF RELIEF IN THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT WHAT COMES NEXT?
I'LL SPEAK WITH JEREMY DIAMOND IN TEL AVIV.
>> I MIGHT SAY LOOK, THIS WAR'S NOT GOING TO GET SETTLED.
I'M GOING TO SEND THEM TOMOHAWKS.
>> ZELENSKYY GEARS UP TO HEAD BACK TO WASHINGTON.
I ASK WHAT THIS COULD MEAN FOR THE WAR.
PLUS.
>> DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE IT CLEAR HE WILL WEAPON NEWS GOVERNMENT TO GO AFTER CRITICS AND PUNISH CRITICS.
IF YOU'RE AN ALLY, HE'LL REWARD YOU WITH THINGS LIKE TikTok.
>> OLIVER DARCY SPEAKS WITH MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT THE CHANGING MEDIA LANDSCAPE.
>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING, AND THE PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH RODGERS.
THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANTZ-COONEY FUND.
MONIQUE WARSHAW, COO AND BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
ARGENTINA'S FIRE BRAND PRESIDENT IS AT THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY MEETING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AFTER A HUGE U.S.
BAILOUT FOR ARGENTINA.
THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT SAID IT WOULD PROVIDE A $20 BILLION CURRENCY SWAP LINE WITH ARGENTINA'S CENTRAL BANK.
THE FIRST SUCH MOVE BY THE U.S.
IN 30 YEARS.
CRITICS SAY THIS AMOUNTS TO A LOAN IN ALL BUT NAME TO A COUNTRY THAT HAS OFTEN DEFAULTED.
THE RIGHT WING REFORMS HAVE BEEN POPULAR AND CONTROVERSIAL.
TWO YEARS AGO A PROMISE TO RADICALLY CUT GOVERNMENT.
IF AUGUST, VOTERS PELTED HIM WITH STONES WHILE HE WAS CAMPAIGNING, AND LAST MONDAY HE RESPONDED IN TYPICALLY UNORTHODOX FASHION SINGING TO HIS SUPPORTERS AT A MASSIVE ROCK CONCERT IN BUENOS AIRES.
LET'S GO TO JORGE WITH MORE ANALYSIS ON WHAT TO EXPECT FROM THIS MEETING AND HOW MALAE HAS BEEN PERFORMING.
IT'S ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE MALAE, AN UNCONVENTIONAL CANDIDATE AND EQUALLY UNCONVENTIONAL PRESIDENT, WAS SWORN IN.
HE CAMPAIGNED ON NOT CONTINUING WITH POLICIES, AND HE INTRODUCED HIS OWN AUSTERITY MEASURES.
HE WAS THE ORIGINAL DOGE IN ARGENTINA CUTTING 10s OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS.
AND ALSO FIRING THOSE THAT WERE AGAINST SOME OF THOSE POLICIES AS WELL.
WE HAVE SEEN THE INFLATION RATE COME DOWN A BIT, THOUGH IT'S STILL HOVERING AROUND 30%, I BELIEVE.
THE POVERTY RATE HAS FALLEN SHARPLY SINCE LAST YEAR WHEN HE INTRODUCED AUSTERITY MEASURES THAT PLUNGED THE COUNTRY INTO HARDSHIP.
SO HOW IS HE DOING RIGHT NOW?
IT SEEMS TO BE A MIXED BAG, JUST TWO YEARS IN.
HOW WOULD YOU GAUGE HIS PERFORMANCE?
>> I THINK A MIXED BAG IS A GOOD MAIN FOR THIS.
HE WAS DOING RATHER WELL IN HIS FIRST YEAR AND A HALF BRINGING DOWN INFLATION AS YOU SAID FROM VERY HIGH LEVELS.
CUTTING SPENDING IN A VERY PAINFUL MANNER BUT CUTTING IT.
AND ALSO RESISTING OF THE SOCIAL PROTESTS THAT THESE KINDS OF SPENDING CUTS HAVE GENERALLY BROUGHT IN ARGENTINA.
HE WAS ABLE TO DO ALL OF THIS WITHOUT HAVING A MAJORITY IN THE CONGRESS IN EITHER OF THE TWO HOUSES OF CONGRESS, AND HE SEEMED TO BE ON A ROLL.
BUT THE LAST FEW MONTHS, THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS SINCE THE SUMMER, HE'S BEEN GETTING INTO TROUBLE FOR SEVERAL REASONS.
THE FIRST ONE IS THAT ONE OF THE WAYS HE BROUGHT INFLATION DOWN WAS TO PEG THE ARGENTINE PESO TO THE DOLLAR.
FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, THERE WAS A STRICT EXCHANGE RATE, A FIXED EXCHANGE RATE, AND PEOPLE BEGAN TO BUY DOLLARS.
AND HE RAN OUT OF DOLLARS FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
SECONDLY, HE GOT A REAL SHELLACKING IN THE LAST ELECTIONS IN THE PROVINCE OF BUENOS AIRES, SO THAT WAS ALSO BAD NEWS.
AND NOW IN VERY RECENT WEEKS OR DAYS, NOT ONLY HAS HE RUN OUT OF DOLLARS, BUT THE EXCHANGE RATE HAS COLLAPSED, THE COUNTRY RISK HAS GONE WAY UP, AND HE FACES ANOTHER SHELLACKING IN THE NATIONAL PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS.
SO HE WAS ON A ROLL, BUT RIGHT ROLL ANYMORE.
HE'S ACTUALLY IN DEEP TROUBLE.
>> YEAH.
AND THE U.S.
AS WE NOTED CAME TO ITS RESCUE WITH A $20 BILLION LIFELINE.
WITHOUT SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME ON THE ECONOMICS OF IT ALL, LET'S JUST WALK THROUGH THIS BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED THAT HE CAMPAIGNED ON ABOLISHING ARGENTINA'S CENTRAL BANK AND DOLLARIZING THE ECONOMY.
HE HAS SINCE BACKED AWAY FROM THAT POLICY, REPORTEDLY UNDER PRESSURE FROM HIS OWN ECONOMIC TEAM AND INVESTORS WHO HAVE PROFITED FROM THE PESO.
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HAS DESCRIBED THIS IN AN EDITORIAL AS THROWING GOOD DOLLARS AFTER BAD PESOS, MEANING THAT IT SUPPORTS BAILING ARGENTINA OUT, BUT NOT USING THIS STRATEGY, WHICH ACCORDING TO THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, HAS BEEN DONE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
JUST EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE TO OUR VIEWERS AND WHETHER THIS LIFELINE WILL ACTUALLY HELP.
THIS BAILOUT AND OTHERS, WHICH HAVE GENERALLY COME FROM THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND AS WELL AS OTHER CREDITORS IS THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO CONDITIONALITY.
SECRETARY BESSETT AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ARE EXTENDING THIS $20 BILLION CURRENCY SWAP TO ARGENTINA WITHOUT ANY CONDITIONS IN TERMS OF CUTTING SPENDING AGAIN OR BOOSTING RESERVES OR DEVALUING THE DOLLAR, THE PESO, I'M SORRY.
SO THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED SO MANY TIMES BEFORE IN ARGENTINA THAT THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
THESE $20 BILLION CAN BE BOUGHT UP BY ARGENTINE DOLLAR PURCHASERS IN A MATTER OF 10 DAYS, MAYBE 20 DAYS IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE U.S.
WILL CONTINUE TO STANDBY PRESIDENT THE ELECTIONS ON OCTOBER 26th.
IF EITHER OF THOSE TWO THINGS ARE PERCEIVED NEGATIVELY, PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO BUY DOLLARS LIKE CRAZY, AND THE $20 BILLION WILL GO DOWN THE DRAIN LIKE PREVIOUS LOANS DID ALSO.
>> THE TREASURY FRAMED IT AS A STRATEGIC INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES WITH THIS $20 BILLION, WHAT THEY SAY AS A CURRENCY SWAP, NOT A BAILOUT.
BUT AS YOU NOTED, THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THERE WILL BE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE AND INVESTOR CONFIDENCE THAT FOLLOWS THIS BAILOUT.
AND IF HE LOSES MOMENTUM IN THESE CONGRESSIONAL ELECTIONS COMING UP, WAS THIS ULTIMATELY A BAD BET NOT ONLY BY MILAE BUT BY THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.
HOW BIG OF A RISK WAS THIS FROM THE U.S.
PERSPECTIVE IN YOUR VIEW?
>> WELL, IT'S A RISK FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE IT'S REAL MONEY NOT BY THE SIZE OF THE U.S.
ECONOMY OR THE U.S.
BUDGET OR TREASURY, BUT IT STILL IS REAL MONEY.
$20BILLION IS NOT A DIME.
IT'S VERY LIKELY THIS WILL NOT BE PAID BACK.
ARGENTINA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF NOT PAYING BACK LOANS IN WHATEVER FORM THEY TAKE, A CURRENCY SWAP, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SO THERE'S THAT ISSUE.
AND THEN THERE'S THE ISSUE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES AMONG THE DEMOCRATS AND U.S.
FARMERS WHO ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT SEEING ARGENTINA BEING BAILED OUT WITH $20 BILLION.
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, U.S.
SOYBEAN FARMERS CANNOT SELL SOYBEANS ANYMORE TO CHINA, WHEREAS ARGENTINA IS MAKING A KILLING BY SELLING ITS SOYBEANS TO CHINA, REPLACING AMERICAN SOYBEANS.
SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A RISK FOR THE UNITED STATES.
THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, IS THAT IF PRESIDENT TRUMP DOESN'T DO THIS, PRESIDENT MILAE WILL BE IN VERY BIG TROUBLE.
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP LIKES HIM.
HE WANTS TO HELP HIM.
HE WANTS TO HELP THE ECONOMY.
HE WANTS TO MAKE MILAE A SUCCESS STORY.
HE LIKES HIM.
>> YEAH.
AND YOU DON'T SEE PRESIDENT TRUMP, NOT THAT YOU SAW MANY OF HIS PREDECESSORS BECAUSE NO ONE'S REALLY ADVOCATING FOR HIM, YOU DON'T SEE HIM DOLING OUT THIS TYPE OF MONEY, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO RANDOM COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.
IT'S CLEAR THE TWO OF THEM HAVE A GOOD RAPPORT.
HE'S CALLED HIM ONE OF HIS FAVORITE PRESIDENTS.
HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU THINK IS ABOUT POLITICS, ECONOMICS, OR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VIEW?
>> A LOT, I THINK PART OF IT IS PERSONAL CHEMISTRY.
PART OF IT IS IDEOLOGICAL.
PRESIDENT MILAE AND PRESIDENT TRUMP SEE THINGS VERY SIMILARLY.
BUT IT ALSO HAS TO DO ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK TIMES STORY A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO AND THEN AGAIN TODAY WITH SOME AMERICAN AMERICAN INVESTORS.
>> HEDGE FUNDS.
>> BLACK ROCK, HEDGE FUNDS I'M SORRY, HAVING PURCHASED ARGENTINE PESOS AND HAVING BEEN CLOSE FRIENDS OF SECRETARY BESSENT WHEN THEY WERE WORKING WITH GEORGE SOROS.
THIS COULD BE TO MAKE SURE THESE HEDGE FUNDS DON'T LOSE THEIR SHIRT BECAUSE THE ARGENTINE ECONOMY TANKS AND THE PESO COLLAPSES.
>> HOW DOES THIS RESHAPE THE REGIONAL BALANCE IN LATIN AMERICA AND SOUTH AMERICA IN PARTICULAR?
YOU'VE SEEN COUNTRIES RECENTLY THAT HAVE VEERED FURTHER TO THE RIGHT.
YOU HAVE MANY THAT HAVE VEERED FURTHER TO THE LEFT AS WELL AND HAVE CLOSER TIES TO CHINA AS OF LATE, SPECIFICALLY A NUMBER OF THESE COUNTRIES.
THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING CHINA WITH ITS INITIATIVE HAS BEEN INVESTING IN.
IS THIS ANOTHER FACTOR IN THE PRESIDENT OR IN TREASURY'S VIEW OF HELPING ARGENTINA OUT RIGHT NOW?
THEY'RE POLITICALLY ALIGNED, IDEOLOGICALLY AT LEAST.
AND THEY'RE WANTING TO CONTINUE TO BE A COUNTER AGAINST CHINA.
>> I THINK THERE'S SOME OF THAT INVOLVED, CLEARLY.
ALTHOUGH ARGENTINA HAS CERTAINLY NOT CUT TIES WITH CHINA.
AS I SAID, IT IS NOW SELLING MUCH GREATER AMOUNT OF VOLUME OF SOYBEANS TO CHINA THAN BEFORE.
WHAT IS TRUE IS THAT THERE ARE TWO OR THREE GOVERNMENTS IN LATIN AMERICA.
PRESIDENT NOVORO IN ECUADOR, AND PRESIDENT MILAE IN ARGENTINA WHO ARE IDEOLOGICALLY CLOSE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.
HE LIKES THEM.
HE LIKES BUCCELE IN EL SALVADOR A GREAT DEAL.
I THINK THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE ON THE U.S.
SUPPORTING ITS FRIENDS AND NOT BEING VERY NICE TO ITS NOT-FRIENDS LIKE BRAZIL, WHICH IS NOW SUFFERING FROM 50% TARIFF ON MANY OF ITS EXPORTS TO THE U.S.
BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP STILL DOESN'T REALLY GET ALONG WITH PRESIDENT LULA.
>> SO IN TERMS OF WHO GETS WHAT OUT OF THIS MEETING IN ANY SORT OF DELIVERABLES, IT'S CLEAR MILAE HAS MORE AT STAKE HERE, AND IT'S THE U.S.
THAT BAILED MILAE OUT.
AS YOU MENTIONED, THE INCREASE INVESTMENT IN RELATIONSHIP IN TERMS OF BUYING ARGENTINE SOYBEANS IN CHINA AND GROWING PRESSURE ON PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM DEMOCRATS HERE FACING A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND FROM FARMERS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS MONEY GOING TO ARGENTINA, DO YOU THINK THERE COULD BE A DEAL PERHAPS ANNOUNCED WHERE ARGENTINA CUTS BACK ON ITS RELATIONSHIP AND ITS TIES TO CHINA IN TERMS OF SOYBEAN SALES?
>> WELL, GIVEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TRANSACTIONAL APPROACH TO INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IMPOSSIBLE THAT HE WILL ASK FOR SOMETHING IN RETURN FOR THE BAILOUT.
AND HE COULD ASK, WEAKEN TIES BETWEEN ARGENTINA AND CHINA, OR HE COULD ALSO ASK FOR MUCH GREATER ACCESS FOR U.S.
FIRMS TO ARGENTINE CRITICAL MINERALS AND RARE EARTH MINERALS.
OR TO ARGENTINE GAS AND OIL IN THE VACA MUERTA FIELDS, WHICH ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT.
THEY'RE ENORMOUS.
THEY'RE HUGE.
AND SO I'M SURE, I'M RELATIVELY SURE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL ASK FOR SOMETHING.
THAT'S THE WAY HE TENDS TO OPERATE IN A VERY TRANSACTIONAL MANNER, AND IF HE'S GIVING AWAY $20 BILLION, HE'S CERTAINLY GOING TO WANT SOMETHING IN >> YEAH.
AND IT'S COMING AS NEGOTIATIONS OVER TARIFFS AND TRADE WITH CHINA HAVE REALLY HIT AN IMPASSE RIGHT NOW OVER CHINA TRYING TO WITHHOLD ITS RARE EARTH AS WELL.
SO THAT WOULD BE NOTABLE IF PRESIDENT TRUMP THEN SEEKS IT ELSEWHERE, PERHAPS IN ARGENTINA.
JORGE, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> AS A CEASE-FIRE CONTINUES TO HOLD IN GAZA, NOW IS A MOMENT FOR SO MANY TO BREATHE AND BEGIN TO RECOVER.
WITH ALL LIVING HOSTAGES NOW HOME IN ISRAEL, THE LONG PROCESS OF HEALING CAN BEGIN.
THOUGH NOT FOR FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE MANY HOSTAGES WHO WERE KILLED AND WHOSE BODIES HAVE STILL NOT BEEN RETURNED.
SAME TIME, THERE WERE CELEBRATIONS IN THE WEST BANK IN GAZA AS FAMILIES GREETED NEARLY 2,000 RELEASED DETAINEES AND PRISONERS.
250 HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF TERRORISM OR OTHER SERIOUS CRIMES, WHILE AROUND 1,700 HAVE BEEN DETAINED WITHOUT CHARGE.
WE ARE LIVE IN TEL AVIV.
JEREMY, IT'S HARD TO DIGEST REALLY EVERYTHING THAT WE SAW YESTERDAY.
THE SOUNDS, THE TEARS, THE SCREAMS, THE REUNIONS OF THOSE HOSTAGES WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AFTER TWO LONG YEARS.
20 HOSTAGES REUNITED WITH THEIR LOVED ONES.
YOU HAVE GOTTEN TO KNOW SO MANY OF THESE FAMILIES, AS HAVE I IN THE LAST HOUR ACTUALLY, I SPOKE TO MOSHA LAVAE WHO'S BEEN A CONSTANT ADVOCATE FOR HIS BROTHER-IN-LAW, AS WELL AS THE OTHER HOSTAGES.
AND I ASKED HIM ABOUT WHAT THE LAST 24 HOURS HAVE BEEN LIKE, AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.
>> IT'S VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL DAY FOR US.
WE'RE STILL TRYING TO PROCESS EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED YESTERDAY.
AND TO BE HONEST, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED SINCE OCTOBER THE 7th, 2023.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP FIGHTING AND ADVOCATING UNTIL EVERY SINGLE HOSTAGE IS RETURNING HOME.
WE CURRENTLY STILL HAVE 24 HOSTAGES, DECEASED HOSTAGES MURDERED ON OCTOBER THE 7th OR DURING THEIR CAPTIVITY, AND THEIR REMAINS MUST RETURN TO ISRAEL AS STIPULATED BY THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP ORCHESTRATED AND BROKERED.
>> AND JEREMY, AS I'M SURE YOU HAVE NOTED AS WELL, IT IS CLEAR HOW TOUCHED PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS TEAM WERE NOT ONLY BY THE HOSTAGE FAMILIES AND THE RETURNED HOSTAGE PLIGHT, BUT THE FAMILIES OF THOSE WHO ARE DECEASED AND WHO ARE FIGHTING EVERY SINGLE DAY, INCLUDING TODAY, FOR THE RETURN OF THEIR LOVED ONES.
WE KNOW THAT HAMAS, PART OF THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN, WAS TO RETURN ALL OF THE BODIES.
FOUR SO FAR HAS BEEN RETURNED.
NOT NEARLY ALL THE 28 THAT HAD BEEN PART OF THIS DEAL.
WHAT MORE ARE YOU LEARNING ABOUT THE REMAINING 24?
>> Reporter: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHEN OR IF THE BODIES OF ALL 24 DECEASED HOSTAGES WILL BE RETURNED.
AND THAT IS FOR A FEW REASONS.
I MEAN, WE'VE ALREADY BEEN REPORTING FOR THE LAST WEEK OR SO THAT HAMAS DOES NOT KNOW THE LOCATION OF ALL OF THE BODIES OF THE DECEASED HOSTAGES.
THAT'S BEEN CONFIRMED BY ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE ASSESSMENTS AS WELL.
THEN, OF COURSE, THERE IS THE MATTER OF THE BODIES THAT HAMAS DOES KNOW THE LOCATION OF.
SOME OF THOSE MAY BE STUCK UNDER THE RUBBLE, AND WE KNOW THERE ARE LIKELY GOING TO BE EGYPTIAN FORCES ASSISTING WITH THAT, AS WELL AS AN INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE.
THE RED CROSS HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS AND SAID THAT SECURING THE RELEASE OF THOSE BODIES, SOME OF THOSE BODIES COULD TAKE DAYS, IF NOT ADDITIONAL WEEKS.
THEN THERE'S THE QUESTION OF WHETHER HAMAS IS HOLDING OUT.
WHETHER THEY HAVE BODIES IN HAND AND ARE NOT RELEASING THEM FOR NOW FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.
I CAN TELL YOU FROM HAVING SPOKEN WITH RUBY FINN WHOSE SON WAS AN ISRAELI SOLDIER BUT ALSO AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AND WHOSE BODY IS STILL BEING HELD IN GAZA, YOU KNOW HE CERTAINLY BELIEVES THAT HAMAS DOES HAVE ADDITIONAL BODIES AND HASN'T RELEASED THEM FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.
AND IN FACT, WE ALSO JUST HEARD FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP DIRECTLY WHO POSTED ON TRUTH SOCIAL THAT WHILE ALL 20 LIVING HOSTAGES ARE BACK AND HE SAID A BIG BURDEN HAS BEEN LIFTED, HE SAID THE JOB IS NOT DONE.
THE DEAD HAVE NOT BEEN RETURNED AS PROMISED.
AND THAT WILL BE, YOU KNOW, AN IMPORTANT STATEMENT FOR FAMILIES LIKE RUBY FINN'S BECAUSE WE SAW THE HOSTAGE FORUM TODAY PUT OUT A LETTER TO STEVE WITKOFF MAKING SURE THAT, LOOK, THE UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS ON THIS FRONT DON'T END WITH JUST THE LIVING HOSTAGES.
THAT THEY ENSURE HAMAS HOLDS UP THE REST OF ITS BARGAIN AND RELEASES THE BODIES OF ALL 24 DECEASED HOSTAGES AS WELL.
AND IT ALSO SEEMS LIKE THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS LIKELY GOING TO START IMPOSING CONSEQUENCES IF THE HAMAS DOESN'T START RELEASING SOME OF THOSE ADDITIONAL BODIES SOON.
TOMORROW, THE RAFAH CROSSING WAS SET TO OPEN AS PART OF THIS EXPANSION OF HUMANITARIAN AID INTO GAZA AND ALSO TO ALLOW SOME PALESTINIANS TO LEAVE THE GAZA STRIP INTO EGYPT.
THE SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT HERE IN ISRAEL IS RECOMMENDING TO THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP NOT TO OPEN THE RAFAH CROSSING TOMORROW UNTIL HAMAS UPHOLDS ITS END OF THE BARGAIN.
SO A LOT HANGING IN THE BALANCE AND UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT STEPS MAY BE.
>> A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO DO MORE TO MAKE SURE THAT HAMAS RELEASES ALL OF THE BODIES OF THE REMAINING HOSTAGES NOW AS WELL.
WE HEARD OVER THE LAST 24 HOURS, OBVIOUSLY NOT ONLY ABOUT SURROUNDING THE RETURN OF THE HOSTAGES, BUT ALSO PEACE IN THE REGION AS WELL.
HOPEFULLY THE CEASE-FIRE CAN LAST, AND WE'VE HEARD THE PHRASE THAT THE GUNS ARE DOWN.
AND THAT HASN'T PROVEN TO BE EXACTLY TRUE.
WHILE ISRAEL MAY NOT BE OPERATING ITS IDF IN GAZA CITY RIGHT NOW, WE ARE GETTING REPORTS OF HAMAS AIRING VIDEOS OF STRAIGHT EXECUTIONS OF THOSE THEY DESCRIBE AS COLLABORATORS.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THIS REALLY STANDS IN THE WAY OF SETTING UP ANY SORT OF TEMPORARY GOVERNMENT AND REPLACEMENT FOR HAMAS, WHICH WAS ALSO PART OF THE DEAL AS WELL.
WHAT MORE ARE WE LEARNING, JEREMY?
>> Reporter: YEAH.
I THINK THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE WAKE OF THIS CEASE-FIRE A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS.
HAMAS FIGHTERS HAVE REEMERGED, MANY OF THEM FROM TUNNELS BENEATH GAZA, AND THEY'RE NOW OUT IN THE OPEN.
SOME OF THEM WEARING HAMAS INSIGNIA TRYING TO KIND OF PUT REASSERT CONTROL IN PARTS OF THE GAZA STRIP FROM WHICH THE ISRAELI MILITARY HAS WITHDRAWN.
THERE IS A DIFFERENT REALITY ON THE GROUND THERE AFTER TWO YEARS OF WAR.
THERE ARE THESE ARMED GANGS THAT HAVE ALSO STARTED TO ASSERT THEIR OWN POWER AS WELL AS SOME OF THESE POWERFUL FAMILY CLANS IN GAZA AS WELL.
AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT SOME OF THESE ARMED GROUPS HAVE BEEN QUIETLY SUPPORTED BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT FINANCED AND ARMED BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, AND WE ARE STARTING TO SEE A BIT OF A POWER STRUGGLE IN THIS NEW WORLD OF A CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA BETWEEN HAMAS AND SOME OF THESE OTHER GROUPS.
AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE'S THIS VIDEO CIRCULATING NOW OF HAMAS CARRYING OUT PUBLIC EXECUTIONS IN GAZA.
THEY CLAIM THESE ARE COLLABORATORS WITH ISRAEL.
WE DON'T HAVE FULL INFORMATION ON THOSE VIDEOS AS OF YET, SO I WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY ABLE TO REPORT ON THOSE AT THIS POINT.
BUT WHAT IS CLEAR IS THAT THERE WE HAVE SEEN REPORTS OF CLASHES BETWEEN HAMAS MILITANTS AND SOME OF THESE OTHER CLANS INSIDE OF THE GAZA STRIP.
AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD CONTINUE FOR SOMETIME.
AND IT'S REALLY UNCLEAR HOW THAT SITUATION IS GOING IS TO BE SETTLED.
AND WHAT'S ALSO UNCLEAR IS WHAT THE TIMELINE IS FOR HAMAS TO, AS IT HAS AGREED TO, TO GIVE UP POWER IN GAZA AND HAND OVER THAT POWER TO THIS INTERNATIONAL SECURITY FORCE AND TO THE GOVERNANCE AUTHORITY OF SOME INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN TECHNOCRATIC GOVERNORSHIP.
THE EGYPTIAN CITY WHERE THIS CEASE-FIRE AGREEMENT WAS BROKERED, WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY SOURCES IN THE REGION THERE ARE WORKING-LEVEL NEGOTIATIONS NOW UNDER WAY TO TALK ABOUT THE NEXT PHASES OF THIS AGREEMENT.
WE'VE HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP AS WELL SAY HE EXPECTS ALL PARTIES DEAL, ASSERTING VERY DEFINITIVELY THAT THE WAR IN GAZA IS OVER.
AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY DETAILS THAT HAVE YET TO ACTUALLY BE NEGOTIATED AND AGREED BY THE PARTIES, AND SO THIS DOES REMAIN A VERY, VERY FRAGILE SITUATION, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE POLITICS THAT ARE FORTHCOMING HERE, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IN GAZA, WHICH SEEMS TO BE QUITE VOLATILE AND DOES INVOLVE POWER STRUGGLES BETWEEN DIFFERENT PALESTINIAN MILITANT ELEMENTS.
>> YEAH.
NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM ANY OF THE INCREDIBLE ACHIEVEMENTS REACHED YESTERDAY WITH PHASE ONE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING PHASE TWO BEGINS RIGHT NOW.
WE KNOW REALISTICALLY, THIS IS A DIFFICULT, LONG JOURNEY AHEAD AS WELL.
JEREMY DIAMOND, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>>> FIRST GAZA, NEXT UKRAINE.
AFTER SUCCESSFULLY SECURING A CEASE-FIRE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS AND THE RELEASE OF ALL THE LIVING HOSTAGES, PRESIDENT TRUMP SEEMS TO BE ON A DIPLOMATIC ROLL.
HE SAID HE'D LIKE TO GIVE A PEACE DEAL WITH IRAN, BUT FIRST WE HAVE TO GET RUSSIA DONE.
RUSSIA'S WAR ON UKRAINE WAS, OF COURSE, SOMETHING TRUMP SAID HE COULD SOLVE IN 24 HOURS.
BUT HE HAS REPEATEDLY ACKNOWLEDGED IT'S PROVEN HARDER THAN HE EXPECTED.
AND NOW TRUMP COULD BE UPPING HIS SUPPORT FOR KYIV.
LATER THIS WEEK, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WILL TRAVEL TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF AMERICA PROVIDING KYIV WITH TOMOHAWK MISSILES.
IT HAS ALREADY ANGERED MOSCOW AND PROMPTED FEARS FROM SOME QUARTERS OF ESCALATION.
MATTHEW CHANCE HAS THIS REPORT.
>> Reporter: TOMOHAWK CRUISE MISSILE.
EVEN THE THREAT OF SENDING THESE U.S.
WEAPONS TO UKRAINE WITH A RANGE OF OVER 1,500 MILES MAY BE ENOUGH TO BRING RUSSIA TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.
AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SEEMS TO THINK.
>> WE HAD A VERY GOOD CONVERSATION.
>> Reporter: TELLING REPORTERS HE MADE TELL THE KREMLIN TO END THE UKRAINE WAR OR FACE THESE CAPABLE OF REACHING MOSCOW.
>> I MIGHT SAY LOOK, IF THIS WAR'S NOT GOING TO GET SETTLED, I'M GOING TO SEND THEM TOMOHAWKS.
THE TOMOHAWK IS AN INCREDIBLE WEAPON, VERY OFFENSIVE WEAPON.
AND HONESTLY, RUSSIA DOES NOT NEED THAT.
THEY DON'T NEED THAT.
I MIGHT TELL THEM IF THE WAR IS NOT SETTLED, THAT WE MAY VERY WELL.
WE MAY NOT, BUT WE MAY DO IT.
>> Reporter: THAT UNCERTAIN THREAT HASN'T COME OUT OF NOWHERE.
FOR MONTHS, RUSSIA HAS BEEN STEPPING UP ITS OWN MISSILE AND DRONE ATTACKS ACROSS UKRAINE.
STRETCHING AIR DEFENSES, FUELING UKRAINIAN CALLS FOR A POWERFUL, LONG-RANGE WEAPON TO STRIKE BACK.
POTENTIALLY DEEP INSIDE RUSSIA.
>> WE SEE HERE THAT RUSSIA IS AFRAID THAT THE AMERICANS MAY GIVE US TOMOHAWKS.
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT DECLARED OVER THE WEEKEND, IT'S A SIGNAL THAT EXACTLY SUCH PRESSURE MAY WORK FOR PEACE.
>> Reporter: BUT IN PUBLIC, THE KREMLIN HAS BEEN DEFIANT, ASSISTING THE DEPLOYMENT OF TOMOHAWKS WOULD HAVE LITTLE IMPACT ON THE BATTLEFIELD BUT SERIOUSLY RATCHET UP TENSIONS BETWEEN MOSCOW AND WASHINGTON.
>> USING TOMOHAWKS WITHOUT THE DIRECT PARTICIPATION OF AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL IS IMPOSSIBLE.
THIS WOULD MARK A COMPLETELY NEW QUALITATIVELY NEW STAGE OF ESCALATION, INCLUDING IN RELATIONS BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES.
>> Reporter: MISSILES CAN POTENTIALLY DELIVER A NUCLEAR PAYLOAD, LEADING TO WARNINGS YET AGAIN OF A CATASTROPHIC SCENARIO.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL WHETHER A TOMOHAWK CARRIES A NUCLEAR OR CONVENTIONAL WARHEAD WHILE IT'S IN FLIGHT.
THE FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV POSTED HOW IS RUSSIA SUPPOSED TO RESPOND, HE ASKED?
TRUMP NOW BASKING IN THE GLORY OF HIS SUCCESS, HE'S NOT GIVEN UP ON ENDING THE WAR IN UKRAINE.
BUT THE HOPE THAT JUST ONE MORE POWERFUL U.S.
WEAPON, IN THIS CASE THE TOMOHAWK MISSILE, COULD BE THE KEY TO ENDING THAT CONFLICT MAY PROVE A LITTLE MISPLACED.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THANKS TO MATTHEW CHANCE FOR THAT REPORT.
WHAT IS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S STRATEGY HERE AND COULD TOMOHAWKS EXERT THE PRESSURE NEEDED TO GET RUSSIA TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE?
LET'S BRING IN SECRETARY GENERAL ROSE SCOTT MUELLER.
IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS COMING OFF WHAT HE'S DESCRIBED AS A PEACE VICTORY IN GAZA, AND HE'S USING IN HIS WORDS THE SAME MODEL TO TRY TO BRING THIS WAR IN UKRAINE TO AN END.
IS THAT A VALID ANALOGY IN YOUR VIEW THAT HE'S MAKING?
WHATEVER WENT INTO THE ACTIONS THAT GOT TO THAT CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA CAN BE DONE UKRAINE.
>> HE CERTAINLY HAD TO PRESSURE THE LEADER OF ISRAEL, MR.
NETANYAHU, TO GET THIS SOLUTION, THE CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA.
SO I THINK HE'S LOOKING TO APPLY SOME TOUGH PRESSURE ON VLADIMIR PUTIN.
THE QUESTION IS HOW BEST TO DO IT.
THE RUSSIANS HAVE DISCOUNTED, AS YOU JUST HEARD, THE TOMOHAWK AS BEING, YOU KNOW, NOT A GAME CHANGER IN THE WAR.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IT IS A STEP IN THE DIRECTION OF SUPPLYING A BIGGER AND MORE CAPABLE WEAPON THAN THE U.S.
HAS SUPPLIED UP TO THIS POINT.
SO IS THIS THE WAY TO DO IT?
I'M NOT SURE.
THERE COULD BE OTHER INDUCEMENTS THAT THE PRESIDENT MAY TRY ON VLADIMIR PUTIN, SUCH AS OPENING UP MORE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES.
THOSE KINDS OF THINGS HAVE BEEN VERY ATTRACTIVE TO PUTIN THE PAST.
I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A KIND OF UNI-LAYERED RESPONSE.
>> ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES, YOU MEAN A CARROT APPROACH THAT YOU STOP THIS WAR, AND WE CAN HAVE FURTHER ECONOMIC TIES AFTER THE FACT?
OR IN THE INTERIM AS WELL?
>> NO, NO.
I DON'T WANT TO SAY IN THE INTERIM.
I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A CARROT OFFERED TO GET THE WAR OVER WITH.
THE PRESIDENT GREETED PUTIN ALASKA AT THE END OF THE SUMMER, AND THERE WAS A BIG CUTERY OF RUSSIAN BUSINESSMEN ON THAT TRIP.
I DO UNDERSTAND THAT MR.
TRUMP HAS THAT ON HIS MIND AS WELL.
IT'S A CLASSIC DIPLOMATIC APPROACH, THE CARROT AND THE STICK.
>> I PICKED UP ON THAT AS WELL.
HE'S TALKED ABOUT THE GREAT BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES THAT AWAIT THE U.S.
IN RUSSIA ONCE THIS WAR ENDS AND CONTINUES TO TALK ABOUT THE FATE AND THE ATTRITION OF SOLDIERS IN THIS WAR AND RUSSIANS AS WELL.
EVERY WEEK, HE THROWS OUT A NUMBER.
THESE ARE TWO POINTS WE DON'T HEAR FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF THE PRESIDENT'S FOCUS IS A BIT MISCALCULATED.
FACING SOME HARDSHIPS, BUT THEY CAN WITHSTAND ANOTHER FEW YEARS AT LEAST GIVEN WHERE THEY ARE NOW IN A WARTIME FOOTING, AND HE SEEMS TO BE JUST FINE HAVING RUSSIA ISOLATED WHERE IT IS BUT STILL REMAINING CLOSE WITH OTHER BRICK COUNTRIES IN PARTICULAR.
AND YOU KNOW, THE TROOP ATTRITION, AGAIN, SEEMS TO BE A BIGGER CONCERN FOR TRUMP THAN VLADIMIR PUTIN.
>> YEAH.
THAT'S VERY ODD BECAUSE I THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN AT THIS MOMENT IS PLAYING A DANGEROUS GAME.
YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT BACK IN 2022, THERE WAS CONSIDERATION OF ANOTHER BIG MOBILIZATION IN RUSSIA, AND 10s OF THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN MEN FLED THE COUNTRY.
AND SO PUTIN HAS BEEN VERY, VERY HESITANT TO TRY ANOTHER MOBILIZATION.
NOW THEY ARE CHANGING THE LAW APPARENTLY THAT LIMITS THE USE OF TWO MILLION RESERVISTS.
AND THEY'VE GOT THAT BEFORE THE RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT, WHICH IS A RUBBER STAMP.
SO IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE PUTIN IS MOBILIZATION CALLING IT A SIMPLE CHANGE IN THE RESERVE LAW.
AND IN THAT CASE, I THINK HE'S SHOWING VULNERABILITY.
THAT WAS POLITICALLY THE BRIDGE TOO FAR FOR HIM BACK IN 2022.
>> FOR SO LONG, HE CALLED THIS A SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION BEFORE IDENTIFYING IT FOR WHAT IT WAS AND A WAR.
YOU RIGHTLY MENTIONED THE PRESSURE AS OF LATE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS PUT ON PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU TO GET TO THIS DEAL, BUT ONE HAS TO NOTE THAT HE ESSENTIALLY ALLOWED THE PRIME MINISTER IN ISRAEL TO CONTINUE NOT ONLY AGGRESSIVELY ON THE GROUND IN GAZA, DESPITE THE CONCERNS AND REALLY THE ISOLATION OF ISRAEL FROM A NUMBER OF OTHER COUNTRIES, BUT ALSO TAKING ON IRAN AS WELL TO GET TO THIS POINT.
I'M WONDERING, WE'VE SEEN PRESSURE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP, ESPECIALLY EARLY IN THIS ADMINISTRATION THE FIRST FEW WEEKS PUT ON PRESIDENT DO YOU THINK THAT TO GET TO A CEASE-FIRE ANYWHERE NEAR WHERE WE SAW IN GAZA, HE SHOULD ALSO PERHAPS START ALLOWING PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TO DO A BIT MORE BEFORE HE THEN ATTEMPTS TO REIGN HIM IN?
IF HE DOES HAVE THAT OVERSIGHT OVER HIM IN A WAY HE DOESN'T OVER PUTIN.
>> I REALLY WANTED TO POINT TO THE EFFECTIVENESS.
ZELENSKYY HIMSELF HAS TALKED ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF TWO NEW UKRAINIAN MISSILES, TWO NEW DRONES THE UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN LAUNCHING AGAINST RUSSIAN ENERGY FACILITIES.
THEIR GASOLINE AND PETROLEUM- PRODUCING INFRASTRUCTURE IS QUITE DAMAGED BY A SERIES OF UKRAINIAN DRONE ATTACKS.
NOW THEY PUT THEIR NEW MISSILES TO USE THERE TOO.
BY SOME ACCOUNTS, GASOLINE PRODUCTION IS DOWN 20% IN RUSSIA, AND THE RUSSIANS HAVE HAD TO IMPORT FROM BELARUS IN DRIVERS WITH GASOLINE.
SO OBVIOUSLY, THE UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN GOOD WITH THEIR OWN INDIGENOUS MISSILES AT CAUSING DAMAGE ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE AS WELL.
I CAN SEE THE PRESIDENT DEFINITELY ENCOURAGING THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY ON THE UKRAINIAN SIDE WHEN HE SEES MR.
ZELENSKYY ON FRIDAY.
>> HE DOES SEEM TO BE IMPRESSED BY MILITARY WINS.
HE'S SAID AS MUCH WITH REGARDS TO SOME OF THE STRIKES THAT UKRAINE HAS SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHED DEEP WITHIN RUSSIA.
THE SAME IN GAZA AS WELL.
NOT IN GAZA, IN ISRAEL IN TERMS OF THEIR STRIKES ON IRAN.
AS FAR AS THIS MEETING ON FRIDAY WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHAT WILL YOU BE LOOKING AT IN TERMS OF ANY TANGIBLE DEALS MADE COMING OUT OF IT.
EARLIER IN THE SEGMENT, WE TALKED ABOUT RARE EARTH MINERALS PERHAPS BEING A DEAL THAT WE SEE BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT MILAE IN ARGENTINA.
THERE WAS A RARE EARTH DEAL IN MUCH AT ALL AS OF LATE.
WHAT WILL TELL YOU WE'VE SEEN A SHIFT IN SOME STRATEGY FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP WITH REGARDS TO THIS WAR?
>> AGAIN, ALL EYES HAVE BEEN ON THE TOMOHAWKS, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT DISCUSSIONS GOING ON IS THE USE OF THESE SO-CALLED FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS FOR THE UKRAINIAN WAR EFFORT AND EVENTUALLY FOR RECONSTRUCTION.
I KNOW THE PRIME MINISTER OF UKRAINE IS EVIDENTLY IN WASHINGTON NOW WITH THE DELEGATION TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER TOPICS TO PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE MEETING ON FRIDAY.
I BELIEVE IF WE SEE SOME U.S.
MOVEMENT, THE U.S.
HAS BEEN QUITE RESISTANT ON USING SUCH FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS.
AND SO IF THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT ON THAT, I WOULD SAY THAT TOO WILL BE A VERY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE AND PRESSURE ON RUSSIA AS WELL.
>> RIGHT.
AND WE HAVE SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP SHIFT SOME OF HIS VIEWS AND EVEN ALLOW NATO U.S.
WEAPONS TO BE DELIVERED TO UKRAINE AFTER THE SALE OF THOSE WEAPONS TO NATO COUNTRIES, AND THEN THEY WOULD SUPPLY THEM TO THE UKRAINIANS.
WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST THAT FOLLOWING MEETINGS WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WE SEE EITHER A PHONE CALL OR ANOTHER MEETING PERHAPS WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN.
DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN THIS TIME AS WELL?
>> I DON'T EXPECT IT IMMEDIATELY, REALLY.
I KNOW YESTERDAY THE PRESIDENT TURNED TO STEVE WITKOFF AND SAID STEVE, NEXT WE WORK ON RUSSIA.
SO I WOULD EXPECT THE SPECIAL ENVOY STEVE WITKOFF TO BE SENT OFF PERHAPS TO TALK TO THE RUSSIANS AGAIN.
AND INDEED, THE KREMLIN SPOKESMAN TODAY WELCOMED WORKING AGAIN WITH MR.
WITKOFF.
THEY FOUND HIM AN EFFECTIVE NEGOTIATOR.
THEY WERE TURNING A CHARM OFFENSIVE ALSO IN THE DIRECTION OF WASHINGTON.
SO I WOULD EXPECT THAT WE'LL SEE SOME MORE SHUTTLE DIPLOMACY FROM STEVE WITKOFF AND THAT THERE WON'T BE A LOT OF INTERACTION IMMEDIATELY BETWEEN PUTIN AND TRUMP.
BUT I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE'LL SEE A MUCH MORE POSITIVE MEETING ON FRIDAY AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH MR.
ZELENSKYY THAN WE SAW LAST FEBRUARY WHEN THERE WAS THAT DISASTROUS MEETING.
I THINK THOSE TWO MEN NOW HAVE A MUCH BETTER WAY OF WORKING TOGETHER, AND SO I SUSPECT THE MEETING WILL BE BUSINESS-LIKE AND I HOPE PRODUCTIVE.
>> WE ALL DO AS WELL.
THEIR RELATIONSHIP HAS IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE THAT MOMENT THERE IN FEBRUARY IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>>> TO THE UNPRECEDENTED CUTS TO FUNDING FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTERS.
THE U.S.
MEDIA LANDSCAPE HAS BEEN UNDERGOING DRAMATIC SHIFTS.
DARCY JOINS MICHEL MARTIN.
THEY SPOKE BEFORE REPORTS THAT WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY HAD REJECTED PARAMOUNT SKY DANCE'S INITIAL TAKEOVER BID.
>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING >> IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.
>> WE'VE CALLED YOU BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A FLURRY OF HEADLINES ABOUT THE MEDIA IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.
I MEAN, THE SUSPENSION OF JIMMY KIMMEL, PUTTING JIMMY KIMMEL BACK ON THE AIR.
TALK OF A MERGER BETWEEN THE PARENT COMPANIES OF CBS AND CNN, NEW LEADERSHIP AT CBS.
LOOKING AT THIS WHOLE MENU OF THINGS YOU'VE BEEN COVERING, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT HEADLINES WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF?
>> THERE IS A LOT GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THE BIG STORY RIGHT NOW IN MEDIA IS CONSOLIDATION, MERGERS, AND THE POLITICAL PRESSURE THESE COMPANIES ARE UNDER.
THAT'S KIND OF THE THROUGH-LINE YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.
A LOT OF THESE MEDIA COMPANIES WANT TO GET BIGGER SO THEY CAN COMPETE WITH THE BIG TECH TITANS, AND TO DO THAT THEY HAVE TO DO DEALS, AND THOSE DEALS NEED TO BE GENERALLY APPROVED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S GIVEN DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION A LOT OF LEVERAGE TO EXTRACT DEMANDS YOU'RE SEEING THIS MANIFEST IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
ONE WAS JIMMY KIMMEL'S SUSPENSION.
THAT'S BECAUSE THE FCC CHAIRMAN THREATENED BASICALLY THE STATION GROUPS THAT RUN THE ABC, THEY OWNED ABC AFFILIATES, AND THEY HAVE A BIG DEAL BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT, A $6.2 BILLION DEAL THEY WANT BRENDAN CARR TO APPROVE.
YOU MENTIONED I BELIEVE WHAT'S GOING ON OVER AT PARAMOUNT WITH CBS AND CBS NEWS.
AND THAT WAS ANOTHER DEAL THAT REQUIRED BRENDAN CARR'S FCC APPROVAL.
SO YOU SAW A NUMBER OF CONCESSIONS MADE TO THIS ADMINISTRATION, WHETHER IT WAS PLACING A MAGA FOLLOWER, HE'LL REVIEW COMPLAINTS OF BIAS TO A NUMBER OF OTHER CHANGES THAT WERE MADE, AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THE CANCELLATION OF STEPHEN COLBERT WAS RELATED TO GETTING THIS DEAL DONE.
THESE COMPANIES NEED TO DO DEALS.
THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO APPROVE THESE DEALS, AND THEY'RE REALLY THEN AT THE MERCY OF THE GOVERNMENT, AND THEY ARE MAKING CONCESSIONS THAT ARE IMPACTING HOW WE, YOU KNOW, CONSUME INFORMATION AND HOW THE CULTURE IS SHAPED.
>> SO THERE'S NEW LEADERSHIP AT CBS.
BARI WEISS HAS BEEN INSTALLED AS THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF CBS NEWS.
FIRST OF ALL, TELL US ABOUT WHO SHE IS AND WHAT ARE HER QUALIFICATIONS FOR THIS JOB.
>> YEAH.
SHE'S AN INTERESTING MEDIA FIGURE.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT HER IN A POLITICAL BOX.
I WOULD SAY SHE IS SOMEONE WHO IS VERY ANTI-DEI, RIGHT?
SHE'S ANTI-WOKE.
NOT REALLY SURE HOW TO DESCRIBE HER OTHER THAN THAT.
SHE'S STAUNCHLY PRO-ISRAEL.
SHE'S TAKEN A NUMBER OF VERY, YOU KNOW, PASSIONATE STANCES, AND I THINK SHE TYPICALLY ENDS UP LINING UPMOSTLY WITH OR CROSSING OVER MOSTLY WITH THOSE ON THE RIGHT.
NOW, SHE DOES CRITICIZE THE EXCESSES OF DONALD TRUMP.
IF YOU'RE TO READ THE FREE PRESS.
>> THE FREE PRESS BEING THIS OUTLET SHE STARTED WHEN SHE BROKE WITH THE NEW YORK TIMES.
WHAT WAS THE FREE PRESS SUPPOSED TO DO?
>> IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE, THE WAY SHE BRANDS IT IS A PLACE FOR CONTRARY THOUGHT WHERE THEY ASK TOUGH QUESTIONS, TALK ABOUT THINGS PEOPLE ARE SECRETLY TALKING ABOUT BUT TOO AFRAID TO SAY IN THE PAGES OF NEW YORK TIMES OR CABLE TELEVISION.
THEY WERE GOING TO BE THE HOME TO REAL DEBATE AND WIDE, IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM OF VIEWS.
THAT'S HOW SHE'S BRANDED THE FREE PRESS.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT'S, SHE LIKES TO I THINK PRETEND THAT THERE ARE TWO EQUAL EXTREMES IN THIS COUNTRY.
ONE ON THE LEFT AND ONE ON THE RIGHT.
I THINK THAT'S NOT ACCURATE.
>> HER NEW BOSS, DAVID ELLISON COMES FROM A FAMILY WITH ITS OWN CLEAR IDEOLOGICAL TIES.
I MEAN, DAVID'S DAD LARRY OF TECH MOGUL, THE SINGLE LARGEST PRIVATE DONOR, FRIENDS OF THE IDF, WHICH HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO, BUT WAS SHE BROUGHT IN TO REFLECT THE WORLD VIEW OF THESE NEW OWNERS?
WAS SHE BROUGHT IN TO DO SOMETHING ELSE?
>> YEAH.
I THINK THAT DAVID ELLISON, WHO'S NOW THE CHAIRMAN AND CEO OF PARAMOUNT, I THINK HE VERY MUCH LIKES WHAT HE THINKS THAT BARI WEISS STANDS FOR.
HE LIKES HER PRO-ISRAEL VIEWS I'M SURE, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THERE'S THIS PERCEPTION OF CBS NEWS AS BEING TOO FAR ON THE LEFT AMONGST THE OWNERSHIP NOW.
AND THEY, I THINK BARI WEISS WAS BROUGHT IN TO MOVE THE COMPANY TO THE RIGHT.
AND THEY WOULD SAY, THEY WOULD PROBABLY DISPUTE THAT.
THEY WOULD SAY WE WANT TO MOVE IT TO THE MIDDLE.
BUT YOU KNOW, THEY'RE MOVING IT IN MORE PRO-TRUMP-FRIENDLY WATERS.
>> SO FOR THE RECORD, PARAMOUNT DAVID ELLISON ISSUED A SAYING WEISS WILL SHAPE EDITORIAL PRIORITIES, CHAMPION CORE VALUES ACROSS PLATFORMS, AND LEAD INNOVATION IN HOW THE ORGANIZATION REPORTS AND DELIVERS THE NEWS.
UNQUOTE.
HAS SHE GIVEN ANY INDICATION OF HOW SHE PLANS TO PROCEED?
>> SHE HAS SAID SHE THINKS BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES NEED TO BE SCRUTINIZED EQUALLY.
THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING.
I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME REALLY BOTH SIDE-ISMS AND THIS FALSE EQUIVALENT THAT THE LEFT IS EQUALLY AS EXTREME AS THE RIGHT.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE AFRAID TO CRITICIZE DONALD TRUMP, BUT WE'RE GOING TO CRITICIZE THE AOCs OF THE WORLD OR THE ZORANS OF THE WORLD, WHAT THEY WOULD PORTRAY AS AN EQUAL EXTREME.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S ACCURATE.
IN TERMS OF HER EXPERTISE ON BUILDING A BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, TO HER CREDIT SHE HAS, SHE WAS A WRITER OF THE NEW YORK TIMES.
SHE HAD AN ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT.
SHE STARTED THE FREE PRESS, WHICH SOLD FOR $150 MILLION TO SHE DID BUILD THAT.
I THINK THEY'RE SAYING SHE HAS THE BUSINESS BACKGROUND TO ALSO RUN THIS COMPANY.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE, THOUGH, WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF CBS NEWS, THE LEGACY OF CBS NEWS, SHE'S WAY OUT OF HER LEAGUE.
YOU KNOW, RUNNING A SUB-STACK WITH A FEW DOZEN EMPLOYEES IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN RUNNING CBS NEWS, WHICH IS HUNDREDS OF EMPLOYEES, IF NOT THOUSANDS, AND HAS A STORIED LEGACY.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 60 MINUTES AND SOME OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS PROGRAMS IN ALL OF NEWS THAT SHE'S GOING TO OVERSEE AS THE EDITORIAL HEAD THERE.
WHETHER SHE HAS THE EXPERIENCE, I'M NOT SURE ANYONE THINKS SHE'S ACTUALLY QUALIFIED FOR THIS.
>> DAVID ELLISON BENEFITING FROM HIS FATHER LARRY'S FORTUNE FROM ORACLE TO ACQUIRE PARAMOUNT, WHICH OWNS CBS.
THE FATHER-SON DUO ARE EYEING WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY.
THIS PROGRAM AIRS AND HBO.
HOW WOULD THAT WORK?
>> I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY THE PLAN.
MY UNDERSTANDING FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE FA FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER, IT INCLUDES THE WARNER BROTHERS STUDIO THAT MAKES THE FILM, IT INCLUDES HBO AND HBO MAX, TURNER SPORTS, WHICH IS TBS AND TNT.
IF YOU'RE WATCHING BASEBALL RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE PROBABLY WATCHING ON ONE OF THOSE CHANNELS.
AND IT ALSO INCLUDES CNN.
THE IDEA WOULD BE THEY WOULD MERGE, PARAMOUNT PLUS WITH HBO MAX.
THEY WOULD HAVE CBS SPORTS MERGE WITH TURNER SPORTS.
AND CNN MERGE WITH CBS NEWS.
WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE?
YOU NO LONGER NEED A CBS FOREIGN BUREAU BECAUSE YOU CAN RELY ON CNN'S NEWS-GATHERING MUSCLE TO POWER CBS NEWS.
I THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY WOULD BE LAYOFFS BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE SYNERGY.
YOU WOULD ELIMINATE THE DUPLICATIONS.
CONTROL THE EDITORIAL OUTPUT OF NOT ONLY CBS NEWS BUT ALSO CNN.
AND THAT WOULD GIVE HER AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF CONTROL OVER HOW WE ABSORB INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, TODAY.
AND I THINK DONALD TRUMP WOULD CERTAINLY LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN THE ELLISONS AND BARI WEISS TO BE IN CONTROL OF CNN BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, THAT HAS BEEN PERHAPS HIS, YOU KNOW, THE ONE NEWS OUTLET HE HAS LIKED TO BEAT UP ON THE MOST OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
>> ADD A FURTHER WRINKLE.
TikTok POPULAR WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE FOR NEWS, COOKING, DANCING, THE WHOLE THING.
KIND OF A WORLDWIDE SUPER PLAYER WAS FORCED TO CHANGE HANDS BECAUSE OF U.S.
FEARS CHINA COULD USE IT TO SHAPE AMERICAN PUBLIC OPINION.
AND NOW IT'S LIKELY THAT LARRY ELLISON'S COMPANY ORACLE IS ALSO LIKELY TO HAVE A STAKE IN TikTok AS WELL.
SO THAT WOULD BE LANDSCAPE, MEDIA SORT OF REAL ESTATE CONTROLLED BY THIS FAMILY.
>> WHEN YOU'RE FRIENDS WITH DONALD TRUMP, HE GIVES YOU GIFTS.
AND TikTok IS A NICE GIFT FOR THE ELLISONS.
NOW, TO BE FAIR TO THEM, THEY HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS WITH TikTok FOR A WHILE.
ORACLE HOUSES OTHER SERVERS FOR U.S.
TikTok.
THERE'S THIS WHOLE THING CALLED PROJECT TEXAS, BUT REMEMBER THEY WANTED THE DATA OUT OF CHINA AND THE U.S.
ORACLE IS HOW HE'S SO WEALTHY, HAS BEEN WORKING WITH TikTok ON THAT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, BUT CERTAINLY THIS IS A BENEFIT OF BEING FRIENDS WITH THE PRESIDENT.
LARRY ELLISON IS A DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER.
HE'S AN ALLY OF THE PRESIDENT.
YOU SEE HIM AT THE WHITE HOUSE OCCASIONALLY.
I THINK DONALD TRUMP WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO HAND OVER THE KEYS TO A LOT OF THESE MEDIA COMPANIES TO AN ALLY, RIGHT?
HE WOULD LIKE TikTok TO BE IN HIS COURT.
HE FOR A LONG TIME FELT LIKE HIM.
AND FOR THE FIRST TIME NOW HE HAS MARK ZUCKERBERG UNDER HIS THUMB.
TIM COOK OVER AT APPLE HANDED HIM THE GOLDEN PLAQUE.
JEFF BEZOS IS MOVING IN HIS DIRECTION.
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE TECH COMPANIES ARE NOW IN HIS COURT, AND I THINK HE VERY MUCH ENJOYS THAT BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS THE POWER OF THE TECH COMPANIES AND THE POWER OF THE MEDIA COMPANIES.
IF THEY CAN NO LONGER BE ANTAGONISTS BUT ALLIES, THAT'S A HUGE WIN FOR DONALD TRUMP AS HE WORKS TO RESHAPE THIS COUNTRY.
>> IN FAIRNESS, HAVEN'T REALLY RICH PEOPLE ALWAYS HAD KIND OF AN OUTSIZED ROLE IN WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION THAT WE CONSUME?
>> I THINK WHAT'S DIFFERENT HERE IS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR HE WILL WEAPONIZE GOVERNMENT TO GO AFTER CRITICS AND PUNISH CRITICS.
AND IF YOU'RE AN ALLY, HE'LL REWARD YOU WITH THINGS LIKE TikTok.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
IT MEANS IF JEFF BEZOS IS COMPETING WITH GOVERNMENT SERVICES OR BLUE ORIGIN, WHICH IS HIS SPACE COMPANY AGAINST SpaceX AND HE WANTS THOSE, WELL HE BETTER BE FRIENDLY WITH DONALD TRUMP.
IF HE'S NOT, THOSE CONTRACTS ARE GOING TO ELON MUSK OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, TO MICROSOFT MAYBE, WHOEVER'S FRIENDLY WITH HIM.
YOU'RE SEEING THESE BILLIONAIRE TECH OWNERS OVERTLY BEND THE KNEE, AND THIS DID NOT HAPPEN DURING THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION.
>> SO WHERE, WHERE'S THE NEWS GOING TO COME FROM?
SOME BELIEVE NATIONAL MEDIA IN PARTICULAR HAVE A LIBERAL BENT, AND THEY FEEL IT'S ENTIRELY FAIR TO HAVE ALTERNATE OUTLETS THAT PRESENT ALTERNATE POINTS OF VIEW.
DO YOU GIVE ANY CREDENCE TO THAT ARGUMENT?
>> WELL, I THINK CERTAINLY EVERYONE IS ON BOARD, I THINK, WITH HAVING DIFFERENT OUTLETS AND PROVIDE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.
I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THAT A LOT OF THESE OUTLETS ON THE RIGHT MAKE UP THINGS, RIGHT?
THEY'RE NOT BASING THOSE POINTS OF VIEW IN FACT.
THEY ARE OFTEN PUSHING CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
THEY ARE SPOUTING DISINFORMATION.
THEY ARE, AT THE VERY LEAST, ENGAGING A LOT OF MISINFORMATION PEDALING, AND IT TENDS TO BENEFIT THE MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO IS THE CHIEF LIAR PROBABLY, RIGHT?
HE LIES EVERY TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH BASICALLY.
AND SO THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
AND SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH A REALITY-BASED NETWORK THAT'S JUST OFFERING A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW BASED ON A SIMILAR SHARED SET OF FACTS.
THEY ARE REINVENTING, THEY ARE MAKING UP FACTS, AND THEN MISINFORMING LARGE AUDIENCES.
AND SO THAT'S THE ISSUE.
>> I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO MENTION I'M SURE MANY PEOPLE PROBABLY KNOW THIS, THAT CONGRESS RECENTLY APPROVED MAJOR CUTS TO THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND RESCINDED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PBS AND NPR, PLACES I'M AFFILIATED WITH AND LOCAL STATIONS WHICH ARE NOW AT RISK.
YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE CONGRESS ABOUT SOME OF THESE ISSUES.
AND YOU SAID, YOU TALKED A DIFFICULTIES AS A SMALL PUBLISHER PROTECTING YOURSELF FROM DEFAMATION LAWSUITS.
YOU SAID THE CHILLINGEST SPEECH IS ONE OF THE FIRST SIGNS DEMOCRACY IS BEGINNING TO DECAY, WHICH ARE PRETTY STRONG WORDS.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
SO WHAT LED YOU TO THAT CONCLUSION?
WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
>> I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS THAT WHEN ASPIRING AUTHORITARIANS ARE SEEKING TO SEIZE POWER, THEY DO NOT WANT DISSENT.
YOU SEE THIS MANIFESTING IN A NUMBER OF WAYS, WHETHER IT'S DONALD TRUMP AND HIS, YOU KNOW, FCC CHAIRMAN GOING AFTER LATE- NIGHT MEDIANS WHO MAKE FUN OF HIM, CELEBRATING THE CANCELLATION OF STEPHEN COLBERT, PRESSURING THEM TO CANCEL HIM, PRESSURING THEM TO TAKE JIMMY KIMMEL OFF THE AIR, OTHER COMEDIANS OFF THE AIR.
REPUBLICANS DEFUNDED NPR AND PBS.
WHETHER IT'S FILING LAWSUITS AGAINST OUTLETS LIKE THE NEW STREET JOURNAL, WHICH IS OWNED BY HIS ALLY RUPRT MURDOCH.
YOU ARE SEEING AN UNPRECEDENTED ASSAULT ON SPEECH IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S LED BY THE MAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE WHO IS SEEKING TO PUNISH CRITICS.
AND MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO CRITICIZE HIM OR TO SPEAK THEIR TRUTH ABOUT HIM.
>> HERE'S THE THING, OLIVER.
THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CRITICS OF THE MEDIA SAY.
THEY SAY AMERICANS AREN'T WATCHING, AREN'T LISTENING, AND DON'T BELIEVE US, RIGHT?
ONLY 28% OF AMERICANS EXPRESSED A GREAT DEAL OR FAIR AMOUNT OF TRUST IN NEWSPAPERS, TELEVISION, AND RADIO TO REPORT THE NEWS FULLY, ACCURATELY, AND FAIRLY.
THAT'S DOWN FROM 31% IN 2024.
AND 40% IN JUST 2020.
THIS IS ACCORDING TO A RECENT GALLUP POLL.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CAUSING THIS DROP?
CONSERVATIVES SAY IT'S BECAUSE THE MEDIA'S TOO LIBERAL AND DOESN'T PAINT A FAIR PICTURE AND IT'S NOT FAIR.
>> I THINK WHAT'S CAUSED THE DROP IN CONFIDENCE AMONGST REALLY REPUBLICANS HAS BEEN THE WAR THAT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES HAVE WAGED AGAINST THE TRUTH FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.
AND IT'S ACTUALLY GONE LONGER THAN THAT, SINCE RUSH LIMBAUGH ROSE TO POWER ON THE RADIO.
THERE HAS BEEN THIS RELENTLESS ATTACK TO A LARGE PART OF THE COUNTRY THAT JOURNALISTS ARE LYING TO YOU, THEY ARE MISLEADING YOU, AND YOU SHOULD NOT TRUST THE, QUOTE, EXPERTS.
AND I THINK WE REALLY SAW THAT HEIGHTENED DURING COVID WHERE DO NOT TRUST THE EXPERTS, DO NOT TRUST THE SCIENTISTS.
THEY ARE MISLEADING YOU.
THEY HAVE NEFARIOUS INCENTIVES.
NOW, ARE THERE A NUMBER OF OTHER REASONS LIKE PERHAPS THE FRAGMENTATION OF MEDIA BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND ALGORITHMS AND A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS?
YES.
BUT THAT IS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, THE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT DO NOT TRUST THE MEDIA THE MOST ACCORDING TO THIS GALLUP POLL ARE REPUBLICANS.
THEY HAVE 8% TRUST OF MEDIA.
THAT IS A STARK DIFFERENCE COMPARED TO DEMOCRATS.
>> BEFORE I LET YOU GO, OLIVER, OBVIOUSLY A BIG TOPIC.
WHERE DOES THIS GO NEXT?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO LEAVE US WITH?
WHAT SHOULD WE DO?
>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S, I TRY NOT TO BE SO PESSIMISTIC, BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO LOOK AT THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE OPERATING IN AND NOT FEEL LIKE THERE IS NO ACTUAL REVERSAL HERE.
I THINK THE ONE GOOD THING IS BECAUSE, AND WE TOUCHED ON THIS, BUT BECAUSE IT HAS NEVER BEEN EASIER TO START INDEPENDENT NEWS ROOMS, I THINK THAT'S THE ONE BRIGHT LIGHT.
AND MY HOPE IS THAT SOME OF THESE INDEPENDENT NEWS ROOMS CAN PICK UP THE TORCH THAT IS BEING SET DOWN BY THEIR, YOU KNOW, MUCH LARGER LEGACY NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AND CARRY THAT FORWARD AND DO SOME GOOD INVESTIGATIVE WORK AND REALLY DO REPORTING.
INCREDIBLY ALARMING THAT AT A MOMENT WHEN YOU WANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS I THINK TO BE STRONGER THAN EVER, TO HOLD THIS ADMINISTRATION'S FEET TO THE FIRE, TO SPOTLIGHT ABUSES, THEY'RE ACTUALLY AT THEIR MOST VULNERABLE POINTS AND THEY ARE SHRINKING PRETTY RAPIDLY AT THIS POINT.
AND I THINK THAT IS A VERY ALARMING TREND FOR OUR COUNTRY AND FOR OUR DEMOCRACY.
>> OLIVER DARCY, THANKS FOR TALKING WITH US.
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