Palestinian-Ukrainian Refugee Zoya El-Miari: “Both Sides of Me Are Worth Living”

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Now, as we know, the climate crisis isn’t the only issue that drives migration. According to the U.N., over 10 million refugees and asylum seekers were forced to flee their homes due to conflict in 2022. Being half Palestinian and half Ukrainian, our next guest has been displaced not once, but twice. First leaving Lebanon in 2021, and then Ukraine when the war broke out two years ago. Now, Zoya El-Miari is a peace ambassador for One Young World. It’s a charity that supports young leaders across the globe. And she joins Hari Sreenivasan to share her complex experience as a refugee.

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HARI SREENIVASAN, CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Zoya El-Miari, thanks so much for joining us. Zoya, thanks for being here. You are in an almost unique position of being a refugee twice over. You are both Palestinian and Ukrainian. I guess for the audience, tell me a little bit about your backstory. Where’d you grow up?

ZOYA EL-MIARI, PALESTINIAN AND UKRAINIAN REFUGEE AND PEACE AMBASSADOR, ONE YOUNG WORLD: Thank you for the introduction. My name is Zoya. I’m half Palestinian, half Ukrainian. My dad is Palestinian from Lebanon. My mom is Ukrainian. I grew up in a Palestinian refugee camp, Ein El Hilweh, which is the largest refugee camp in Lebanon. These Palestinian camps were built after the Palestinians were forced to flee their homes back in Palestine in 1948. And after that, the communities, they’re kept on growing and growing. And I lived in this refugee camp, which was a community filled with child abuse, mental illnesses, ongoing clashes until the age of 15. And later in 2021, when the situation in Lebanon was getting worse and worse, we decided to move to Ukraine for a fresh start. And later in 2022, the war starts in Ukraine, and we have to escape the war for a second time in our lives and becoming refugees for a second time.

SREENIVASAN: When you were growing up as a kid, I wonder, did you tell your friends in school that you lived in a refugee camp, that that was part of your identity?

EL-MIARI: So, I went into a very good school. Unlike my siblings, they were going to UNRWA schools, which were — they were facing some kind of challenges. And with the good quality education that I got, the children there were coming from richer communities. And in that situation, I was really scared because of the associated stereotypes. So, I remember when other students were worried about their grades. I was really scared that they would ask me where do you come from, that they would discover my reality living in a refugee camp. So, I was really scared to tell them that I live in a refugee camp or I was really ashamed about this reality.

SREENIVASAN: So, you had the option to go to a private school or a better school, and there, you weren’t that proud of your refugee status or identity. What happened when you were, well, leaving Ukraine? I mean, at that point, did that change?

EL-MIARI: When the war started in Ukraine and we were escaping the war for the second time, because back in 2006, the war between Lebanon and Israel, we were also forced to flee Lebanon to Ukraine because Ukraine always represented a safe space for us, a safe haven. So, whenever something bad was happening in Lebanon, we would always go to Ukraine. And this time that the war was happening in Ukraine, we had to escape the war for the second time. And I remember when we were in the train heading to Poland, my mom told me, Zoya, we should sing. And we started singing Ukrainian folk songs. And with each song, our resilience was growing stronger. And this time, I promised myself that if I make it out alive, I refuse to become the victim I once was. But rather, I would become a warrior and a fighter. I would fight for those in Ukraine and I would fight for my Palestinian side, the side, that as a kid, I was afraid to fight for.

SREENIVASAN: You know, I’m struggling to figure out like how these two identities that you’re living influence your life.

EL-MIARI: So, ever since I was a child, I always had this internal conflict, because when the war happened in Lebanon and we escaped to Ukraine, my dad was only Palestinian, and in Lebanon, we are considered stateless refugees. So, my dad stayed in Lebanon and was not allowed to go with us to Ukraine. And it was really — like, it created an internal conflict in me, like, why would I be able to escape to a safer space when my dad stayed behind? And now, that the war happened in Ukraine and we escaped the war, suddenly I felt that the whole world was welcoming the Ukrainians and we truly appreciate that. But that is something that really conflicts the other side of me. And here I felt these double standards of one half of me being completely humanized, when the other side is completely dehumanized. So, it’s really as if one paper, one document defines the way I would live, defines my life.

SREENIVASAN: So, explain that to me. The Ukrainian side of you, you feel is humanized and the Palestinian dehumanized, am I hearing that correct?

EL-MIARI: Yes, that’s correct. And I can talk about the language that is being associated with Ukrainian refugees, for example, and my other half being Palestinian. For example, growing up, we always got used to Palestinians being portrayed as barbarians or terrorists. And on the other hand, now as Ukrainians, we were refugees, European refugees who the world saw as part of them, you know, part of those people. So, often the language that is being used in western media, European media, always portrays the Palestinians as terrorists. So, in a way, that is how the genocide that’s happening in Gaza right now, in a way, people are not able to see that what’s happening is terrible because of the media that has been portraying the Palestinians over and over again as barbarians or terrorists. So, that’s the conflicting double standards that’s happening when the media portrays the Palestinians, one side of me in one way and the other side of me in another way. And it’s very important to point out that both sides of me are worth living, whether I’m Palestinian or Ukrainian, or wherever I come from, I am worth of living. I deserve to live. So, yes, we are not terrorists. We are actual human beings. Even as refugees, we are not just numbers or statistics to be portrayed on a screen or mainstreamed on the media. We are actual human beings. We are children who are full of dreams and aspirations. We are mothers and fathers who really love their children unconditionally. So, no, we are not terrorists. We are human beings just like everyone else.

SREENIVASAN: You live in Switzerland now. How do you stay a family when parts of your family are here, parts of your family are there, and you know that they’re both in lands where there is danger?

EL-MIARI: This is a very sad reality, and this is what refugees have to go through when the families are scattered all around the world because of the lack of safety and security. So, there is some type of survival guilt, of course, because in a way we were saved. But also in Lebanon, the situation is very bad, in Ukraine as well. So, it’s always continuous worrying about what could happen here. What could that could happen there? Also in West Bank, also in Gaza. So, it’s continuously really being in a survival mode, of course. And in a way, that really also makes me question, like, what is home to me? I grew up questioning myself, what is home to me? Because so many people, if you ask them, like, what is home to you, they can really specify, like, that’s my home, that’s my home. And to me, like, how can I say that Palestine is my home, if I’m not even allowed to visit my home country? Or how can I say Lebanon is my home if I grew up as a Palestinian refugee there? Or in Ukraine now, there is a war. So, this also reminds me of the conversations I used to have with my grandfather who was forced to flee Palestine back in 1948, and he was sharing with me that, at the time, they thought that they were leaving their homes just for three days, and that they were going back home. And they left Palestine with their keys that they kept on holding for so long, wishing that they can only use them back home. And my grandfather died in Lebanon, Palestinian refugee died in Lebanon with his only one dream, to use those keys and go back home buried with him. And this really makes me question like why some people from Brooklyn or Europe can come to Palestine and take the Israeli citizenship and take the — enjoy their human rights when us as Palestinians who grew up outside of Palestine, around 6 million Palestinians outside of Palestine, and we are not even allowed to go and visit our country, not only not go back to our home, but not even visit. So, my dad even — my dad, who grew up in Lebanon, he’s never — he has never visited his home country in Palestine, because he’s not even allowed to go there and visit.

SREENIVASAN: What do you find are parallel between the conflicts in Ukraine and what’s happening in Gaza right now?

EL-MIARI: So, there is occupation on both sides. And it’s very important to notice that. And this is something I’ve been mentioning that we cannot fight for one part of me and not fight for the other, because really, there’s no one — no one is free until everyone on this earth is free, whether in Palestine, in Ukraine, Sudan, Congo, Yemen, everywhere. That is how true liberation — collective liberation is achieved. Also, in Ukraine, everyone knows the narrative. The whole world knows the narrative, knows the Russian propaganda, knows the occupation now happening in Ukraine. And when it comes to the narrative, when we want to talk about Palestine and Israel, suddenly, the language becomes very complicated and the whole situation becomes complicated when it’s really clear that there is the oppressor and there are the oppressed, there’s the occupier, and there are those who are being occupied for decades long.

SREENIVASAN: You’re working as a peace ambassador. Now, what does that mean?

EL-MIARI: Yes. For so long I was questioning what peace means to me, because as a child growing up in a refugee camp, honestly, all what I wanted was peace. I did not understand in my community where, I hated that community growing up, honestly. For so long, I couldn’t understand or comprehend why people that were so angry all the time or resort to violence as a way of expressing themselves or their pain until I grew older and understood that those people, my people are actually oppressed. They were never taught ways to express themselves in a more healthier way. And that’s where I felt that that need to become a peace ambassador, to teach people how they can express themselves in a way that their pain could actually be used as a peaceful weapon. So, I became a peace ambassador after participating in a One Young World Summit back in Manchester. And I was questioning myself, what does peace mean to me after the situation, the genocide and Gaza started. And I came to realize that peace is something I value. That’s one of my top values in life. But I also understood that with peace comes justice. If I’m fighting for peace, that means that I’m fighting for justice as well. Because when there is no justice, there is no peace. So, today, that is what peace means to me. Peace means fighting against the occupation, ending the occupation. Only then we can achieve peace.

SREENIVASAN: How do you deal with people who have a totally different point of view of the world and reality, right? Like there are Israelis wanting to ensure their safety and security. They feel like they’re living next to a government that has sponsored acts of violence and terror against them. So, when you, as an ambassador of peace, bump into people who have these worldviews that are so diametrically opposed to how you see things, how do you approach them? How do you communicate and how do you see them and hear them?

EL-MIARI: That’s a very good question. And maybe here I can share a little story that I had experienced. When we escaped the war in Ukraine, the first thing that I wanted to do was to go to Auschwitz camp because my grandfather used to tell me stories of Jews who were killed during the Holocaust. And I went to the Auschwitz camp just six days after the war in Ukraine started. And what I saw there really terrified me. I saw pictures of children hanging on the wall. And I really wondered how did the world allow this to happen back then? What type of propaganda justified the killing of those children? And now, I’m also asking myself, what type of propaganda is allowing people to be blind to an extent that the killing, the slaughtering, the murder of children today is somehow justified or the killing of over 30,000 souls is also somehow justified. And I remember reading there, in Auschwitz, a code that says something like, we need to know our history for it not to be repeated. And what’s happening today in the world? Where’s the humanity? Why is the history keeps on repeating itself? So, I feel like, today, in our position as youth fighting against the occupation, against injustices in the world, what we want is the end of this cycle of violence once and for all and for everyone. So, I remember talking to a Jewish person who also became my friend and she was sharing about those Jews who are fighting for a free Palestine to whom I had a huge respect, but we were also talking together because she has a different view of seeing things from — maybe from the Israeli perspective, the Israeli propaganda. And we were talking. It’s important to talk. I was talking to her and I told her, please send me everything that you are seeing. I need to understand the way that they are thinking. And I was sending to her how I am seeing things and the reality. I’m sharing with her the truth, because we need to know the truth. It’s time to acknowledge the truth for — to stop it from being repeated once and for all. So, that is one way to start the conversation by sharing that, yes, I was in Auschwitz. I respect those Jews who are fighting for a free Palestine, but what I don’t understand are the Zionists who are using the pain of the Jews as an explanation or justification for what they are doing today in Palestine, in Gaza, in West Bank, not only now, but for the past 75 years. So, yes, everyone deserves to — everyone can live freely on that land, on every land, but not when it comes on an expense of other people, not at the expense of displacing thousands of Palestinians for so long.

SREENIVASAN: You’ve said before that, I did not choose my struggles, but I get to choose how I perceive my own story. Explain that if you will.

EL-MIARI: What I realized when I came to Switzerland, I started sharing my story. And in Lebanon, I did, in a way, victimized myself by being ashamed for things I did not choose, for lying to my friends that I come from a refugee camp, for lying to my friends that I lived in a single room with my whole family for the first 15 years of my life. So, I was really ashamed. But when I started sharing my story, I realized that the way I tell my story to myself will have a direct impact on the way I will lead a life for myself.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

EL-MIARI: So, today, I could see myself as a victim, but I choose to see myself as a warrior and a fighter. And this is what I want other refugees, displaced people, migrants to see that we should not hide behind our realities, but rather, celebrate our resilience. We should no longer feel ashamed for things that we did not choose, but rather celebrate the power and the strength and the love that we still have within despite all the traumas, all the struggles.

SREENIVASAN: Zoya El-Miari, a peace ambassador from One Young World, a Palestinian and Ukrainian refugee, thanks so much for joining us.

EL-MIARI: Thank you.