“Porcelain War:” Ukrainian Artists on Living, Fighting and Creating Amid War

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Next, a very different conversation about the importance of art. The acclaimed documentary, “Porcelain War,” has reached the Oscar shortlist. It’s about the Kharkiv-based artists Slava and Anya Leontyev, who specialize in making delicate porcelain figurines, even amidst the raging war that Russia’s inflicted on their homeland. They kept producing this art despite rolling blackouts and Slava’s new job training recruits for the Ukrainian front. Now, in this conversation with Hari Sreenivasan, Slava Leontyev, who co-directed the documentary, and filmmaker Brendan Bellomo, discuss why they think art is vital to Ukrainian resistance.

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HARI SREENIVASAN, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Brendan Bellomo, Slava Leontyev, thanks so much for joining us. Your film, “Porcelain War,” gives us a different kind of look in life in Ukraine today, in the middle of now a three-year long war.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): For as long as I remember, I always been making art.

SLAVA LEONTYEV, CO-DIRECTOR AND SUBJECT, “PORCELAIN WAR” AND UKRAINIAN ARTIST AND MILITARY TRAINER: It was just a matter of time until we were collaborating. We’re ordinary people in an extraordinary situation. In Ukraine, it’s a war of professional assailants against defenders who are amateurs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They hit, and more are coming.

LEONTYEV (through translator): Among them, writers, musicians, teachers, artists.

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SREENIVASAN: Slava, let me start with you. So, you’re an artist and you’ve been working as part of the Ukrainian effort. You — what do you do in the Ukrainian army? What type of work were you doing that, you know, kind of juxtapose that to me by what you do with your art?

LEONTYEV: I was in Ukrainian special force. I drive a car. I was in few battle mission. But also, I trained civilians how to use weapon, how to defend their homes. It was time when thousands and thousands of our people came to army as volunteers to defend their families and their homes. But we — my wife and me, we are porcelain artists, and we continue our art at that time. And one day, Brendan Belloma called me and asked me about can we — how we are, and what we’re doing.

SREENIVASAN: Brennan, how do you stumble across this story of someone who’s training civilians to defend their homes and how to shoot guns by day and making porcelain figurines by night?

BRENDAN BELLOMO, CO-DIRECTOR, “PORCELAIN WAR”: Similar to Slava and Anya, who are subjects in the film, my wife and I are filmmaking partners, and she actually grew up under Russian oppression in communist Poland. And about eight years ago, she discovered Anya and Slava’s porcelain figurines, and she was so moved by them because they really reminded her of her home. And the four of us actually began to collaborate on an animation project together. And then, Russia invaded Ukraine. And so, we called up Slava and Anya to say, when are you guys leaving? Are you OK? And Slava had told me, you know, as you just learned, but I had never, never heard this before. I’m in the Ukrainian Special Forces, and by day I’m training civilians, and by night we continue making our artwork. And we felt that this was an absolutely remarkable form of resistance. When you hear about people in a war zone, you never think that they’re going to stay. You never think they’re going to take it up — take a charge themselves as everyday people to defend their lives, but also to keep creating something. And Slava felt while there was so much deeply important journalism from the western world, taking an outside view on Ukraine, there was an untold story from within. So, we wanted to empower them to be able to tell that story through their own eyes as artists. And we actually taught them how to use cameras.

SREENIVASAN: Slava, why is it important to try to tell this story through film and help us, I guess, see it? What do you want us to see?

LEONTYEV: For us as artists and the soldiers, our film is amazing opportunity to share our experience. Me and my friends in my unit, we’re all are regular civilian people who came to army as volunteers. And we was forced to defend our country and our homes, but also, we felt responsibility in the face of history, because it’s so important to defend our democracy, defend our independence when totalitarian government trying to take away our free choice, how to think and how to create. And also, we were focused on our culture, and on beauty, because evil is attacking beauty. Our culture and our identity is the main target of this invasion.

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LEONTYEV (through translator): During this genocidal war, the aggressors at the first opportunity try to destroy people who contribute to culture. Among them, writers, musicians, teachers, artists. When they erase these people, they erase Ukraine.

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SREENIVASAN: Slava, you said target of the invasion. What gives you an idea that it is the target? Why do you think the Russians are targeting culture?

LEONTYEV: Idea of this aggression is take away our own culture, our own language, and our identity. And reconnect Ukraine to Russian empire. So, since the start of big war, so many our museums was destroyed. So, many our university was damaged and so many our artists was killed. Killed on frontline, killed as civilian people on their own kitchen and bedroom, because Russia shelling districts of apartment buildings. And also, killed especially on occupied territory. All these people who contribute culture, artists and writers and actors in Ukraine, they was killed and nobody can bring these people back to life. Because this is our responsibility, rebuild future of our culture.

SREENIVASAN: Brendan, there are this kind of beautiful scenes where you layer animation on top of Anya and Slava’s artwork, their tiny pieces of porcelain. Describe what that’s about, why that’s there?

BELLOMO: Animation is an extension of Anya’s, what she calls her language. The paintings on their figurines, not only are they incredibly beautiful, they’re deeply autobiographical. They’re really personal.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Each picture, each image I’ve created is stored in my memory. As a result, of course, none of them leave me completely. Basically, like everything that’s over happened in my life. I hold onto every memory.

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BELLOMO: And they actually allow us to bring the audience to places that you could never bring a camera. We don’t have a time machine to bring a camera back to their peaceful past in Crimea before the annexation. But yet, Anya created a figurine that depicts their life, you know, what they wish Ukraine could be. And her language is something that could actually share more than if we were to use archival footage or to look at the news, what it was like emotionally to experience the first days of the invasion. And because this is a war that continues to occur, there’s no end here. And yet, we’re looking at a story of their lives. There’s no conclusion at the moment. I mean, this is the largest conflict in Europe since World War II, but Anya and Slava are hopeful. They’re so incredibly powerful in their art. They actually looked at this is the future that we want to have in Ukraine. And the surface of these figurines was brought to life through a deep international collaboration. It was actually a collective animators in Poland in Warsaw that worked for a year drawing 7,000 hand drawn images to bring Anya’s stories to life on the figurines, and it was absolutely remarkable to just see how people across different cultures can work together because there was this shared experience as artists that personal stories truly matter.

SREENIVASAN: Slava, there are scenes where you and your wife are out going for a walk and you are, I guess, on a hiking trail where people would traditionally be looking for mushrooms, but you’re also clearing mines, I mean, or you’re at least marking where landmines exist. And I’ve got to wonder, like, why are you doing this? I mean, why are you taking the risk in the first place?

LEONTYEV: It is our situation in Ukraine. We are surrounded of this kind of danger. Ukraine now is most mining but — by landmines country in whole world. And our farmers, they have this horrible issue. They cannot work on their fields because of this fields are mining from air. And also, our nature, not only landmines, this horrible fire after shelling. (INAUDIBLE) our national parks and our national forests. And at least if something is still here, it — mining, and it’s important issue. We’ll never fix it completely, because it’s a huge amount. It will take maybe hundreds of years. But we are trying to do something right now. It’s our life. It’s our country.

SREENIVASAN: Slava, you mentioned, there’s a line in the film, it says Ukraine is like porcelain, easy to break, yet impossible to destroy. I guess, explain that.

LEONTYEV: Oh, when we choose porcelain to make our art, I have thinking about it’s really something undestroyable. So fragile, but porcelain survive after thousands of years underground. In fire everywhere. And I thought about Ukraine the same. It’s so easy to damage the life of our people by shelling, by this aggression, to take away part of our territory, but to destroy, completely destroy our culture, to destroy our identity. It’s impossible.

SREENIVASAN: Brendan, there are this kind of beautiful moments where we see the art being made and we see how this couple is kind of just living and then, it’s juxtaposed by these incredibly intense scenes of destruction and war. In fact, there are scenes where it’s kind of a first-person view on the frontlines. Why did you decide to include that?

BELLOMO: So, the juxtaposition comes from something very surprising. I mean, as an American who hasn’t served in war you have this concept of the frontline being something separate from life. You go to war. But in Kharkiv, in Ukraine, the war is right outside Slava’s doorstep. As he says, they had no other choice. And so, what I think is important about this film is it’s an opportunity for people around the world to not only see that there is — you know, there’s no choice but to defend their lives and their culture, but to also really, I think, humanize this experience. You know, a lot of times, if you look at something from the news footage, or if you look at something from, you know, a different perspective, you know, we see almost a labeling that can happen. You know, inadvertent dehumanization. This is a soldier. This is a refugee. But we try to give these people a voice by giving them the camera and saying, here’s how you can share what’s happening in your own lives that we can get to know them, to be able to step into their shoes and hopefully understand what they’re experiencing and how it actually really affects all of us.

SREENIVASAN: Slava, you mentioned in the film that you’re so thankful that you are meeting the type of people that you are. I mean, it’s kind of people from all walks of life who come to your training on weaponry and how to defend themselves. What — how has your life changed in these couple of years?

LEONTYEV: All my friends they’re amazing. They’re still the same peaceful people and nobody wants to fight extra minutes. They want to return to their own life. They’re all successful in their civilian life, but they came to army to defend their people. They are so brave and so intelligent. And they’re really amazing. And they supported our project a lot. I was serving in Ukrainian army at the time. And I was able to film “Porcelain War” only because when I picked up my camera, someone picked up a rifle in my place. They trusted us and they thought about how important is to share their experience, to help us make something about culture and make something beautiful.

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LEONTYEV (through translator): What are the virtues and flaws of patriotism? If it’s about your willingness to protect your way of life, the patriotism is somewhat paradoxical. If you value your free will and you are ready to stand up for freedom, you have to partially limit your own freedom to do that.

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SREENIVASAN: Brendan, what have you learned about this entire war and the people there in this process over the past couple of years as you’ve been working on this? I mean, what do you hope people get out of the film?

BELLOMO: I hope people take away that even in situation as absolutely dire that there is hope, that creativity matters to continue not only a record of what you’re going through from a personal perspective, but to also ensure the continuation and the survival of culture. But also, while this story takes place within the borders of Ukraine, it truly affects all of us. And as I said earlier, it’s the largest conflict in Europe since World War II, but also have other authoritarian governments that are looking at the outcome of this war. If Russia wins in Ukraine, it might embolden China, for example, to attack Taiwan where they have their sights set. I mean, and Ukraine was a sovereign, democratic, peaceful nation. This was an unprovoked attack. And so, I urge anybody who sees this film to see that as a perspective of everyday people that are going through this, that this could happen in other places in the world. And that the outcome of this conflict really affects all of us. I mean, democracy is at risk now around the world more than ever. So, we need to understand what’s happening and how things are interconnected. We can’t just view things as this is in a box. This is here in this country. We’re all on this planet together.

SREENIVASAN: Slava, what’s your hope for the future?

LEONTYEV: I hope our movie is not about Ukraine and Ukrainians only. And I hope we were able to bring inspiration from the middle of this destruction. And I’m thinking about our future through our movie. These people, these regular people around me, even in the face of this aggression, they are able to defend independence, to develop culture and keep humanity, even in this dark time. I hope everywhere kind people can won.

SREENIVASAN: Slava Leontyev, Brendan Bellomo, the filmmakers behind the film “Porcelain War,” thank you both for joining us.

BELLOMO: Thank you so much for this conversation. We truly appreciate it.