This Librarian Spoke Out Against Book Banning. Now She Fears for Her Life

HARI SREENIVASAN: Bianna, thanks. Amanda Jones, thanks so much for joining us. We are speaking with you, not just because you are a librarian in Louisiana, who’s written an amazing book called, “That Librarian: The Fight Against Book Banning in America.” But how did this all come to be? I mean, you were a middle school – you were an English teacher. You move into becoming a librarian, not want, something, a position that people would think of at the center of a culture war.

 

AMANDA JONES: Yes. So I’m a school librarian and all I did was go and give a speech about intellectual freedom and standing up against censorship at my local public library as a resident. I just happened to be a school librarian.

 

SREENIVASAN: So what happened? Why, what made you want to go to that meeting in the first place?

 

JONES: Well, we have had some issues in a neighboring parish in Louisiana –  ’cause we’re parishes, not counties – and there was an extremist group that had been instrumental in getting funding cut for the lo, the parish next door to us. Their local public library getting displaced, banned, Women’s History month, Cajun history, displaced, banned and moving books. And they turned their sights on our parish. And so I knew I needed to get there and speak up at the public library board before they got, you know, into our parish library system and started doing the same thing.

 

SREENIVASAN: Okay. So you make a speech at a library board. Again, not somewhere that I expect fireworks to fly. What happened during that meeting? What happened after?

 

JONES: Well, I was one of around 30 people that spoke at the meeting. And pretty much everybody at the meeting was residents of our community except for the outside extremist group who spoke against our library. And we all said pretty much the same things that we have policies and procedures in place in our library, and we loved our library, and we thought that was that. And then four days later, I woke up to a targeted smear campaign against me. Two men were posting awful memes about me and saying you know, horrible things online about me.

 

SREENIVASAN: You know, I’m, I was hesitant to read some of these comments. But I just wanna for our audience illustrate the kind of stuff that you were getting here. One said, “Continue with your LGBT agenda on our children cause we gunna put ur fat evil commie PEDO azz in the dirt very soon bitch. You can’t hide. We know where you work +live. . . . you have a LARGE target on your back. Click, click . . .see you soon . . .” When you saw that, what was your reaction?

 

JONES: Oh, I was, I was hysterical. I’ve been an educator for 24 years and I have gotten nothing but praise and high, you know, observations. And I have a lot of parental communication, back and forth with parents. I’ve never had anything even remotely close to that. I was shocked and I, hysterical.

 

SREENIVASAN: What did it do to you?

 

JONES: Well, you know, I, it was very rough. People were calling me awful names, and these are people that I’ve grown up with. Because I live in a very small town in Louisiana, and I, you know, I’m a 46 year resident. I’ve lived here my entire life. And it was people I know that were joining in. And so it’s very horrible to see people that, you know, join in and just kind of dog pile on you <laugh>. And I spent days crying so hard my eyes swelled shut. I had to take – and it is not just online, it’s in person. They say awful things to me in person. I can’t go grocery shopping. I’m scared to go outside in my community. It’s been two years. They take pictures of me. They still post awful things about me. They try to get me fired at my job. I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s, it takes a toll on you. I had to take a medical leave of absence from work, from all the stress, started having panic attacks. 

 

SREENIVASAN: Can you talk a little bit about what kind of steps you’ve taken now just for your own mental health, considering that you’re still living in this community?

 

JONES: Yes. I did, we got security cameras around our home. I got security cameras on my vehicle. I do have a weapon in the home ’cause I’m scared for my life. I do therapy. For the first time in my life, I had to go to therapy. I had to take anti-anxiety medication for panic attacks. I try to surround myself with positive people. It’s <laugh> as best I can. It is, you know, it hasn’t been an easy two years and I don’t think it’s getting better anytime soon.

 

SREENIVASAN: Why target libraries? Why are they the battlegrounds? What made them come after you?

 

JONES: I think they came after me because I was one of the more prominent people that spoke that evening. I was the 2021 National School Librarian of the Year and the 2020 Louisiana State Librarian of the Year. So that’s, I mean, that’s my theory. I was, I did dress in a suit and I was a little dressed up at the meeting compared to other people, I guess. But yeah, what’s, you know, basically it’s two different entities came after me. One was just a local guy joining in, I guess if you wanna call it, the fun. And one person was an outside director of an extremist group that does this to libraries and librarians all across our state.

 

SREENIVASAN: And what exactly is happening? I mean, what are they advocating for? Is it specific books that they want banned? Is it you know, what are, what are, what’s their contention?

 

JONES: Well, they claim that there’s sexually explicit books in children’s sections of the libraries. But they never really have any titles. <Laugh> They just say that they’re there. There are some books that are, you know, like sexual health books or books for older teens that are never found in the children’s section. These are books written for teenagers that are found in the older teens section. And our libraries all have policies that say minors cannot be unaccompanied. You know, under the age of 13, they should have a parent with them at all times. If their parent were with them, they shouldn’t even be in that section. But it’s sexual health books about reproduction.

 

SREENIVASAN: You have tried to take them to court to sue for defamation. And right now that was found without merit in the first, and you are appealing. Explain what’s happening on the sort of legal front.

 

JONES: So the local elected judge said that it’s just their opinion that I do all of these horrible things and wouldn’t even allow my attorney to read my entire speech into record before dismissing the entire case. And so we are appealing. I lost my appeal on a technicality. So now we’re appealing to Louisiana Supreme Court just for the right to have a trial to bring my defamers in front of a jury of my peers. That’s all I’m asking. And then, and I’m not asking for a lot. All I’m asking for is a dollar and an apology. That’s all I want.

 

SREENIVASAN: Look, the people who are in this lawsuit that you’re suing know, they say, Hey, how could I be defaming her? I mean, she has become a national and international star. She’s on programs like this one now. She’s got a group that she started. What’s wrong with that argument?

 

JONES: Well, for starters, if they hadn’t harassed me, I’d still be doing, I’d still just be a school librarian in a two red light town. But they wanted to silence me. And so I thought the best recourse – I’m not gonna argue with them on social media – the only recourse that I thought that I had was to spread the words, tell my story. Because, and I’ll tell my story to anyone who wants to listen as long as they’re harassing me. I have no other recourse.

 

SREENIVASAN: What is the climate like in Louisiana? I heard now that there was a recent law passed that you no longer have to have any sort of a certification or any kind of advanced learning to be a librarian.

 

JONES: Yeah, they, we had nine anti-library bills this past legislative session in Louisiana. It’s something that our governor, our current governor has pushed for. That was his platform when he was running for governor. He created a tip line to report librarians who were giving sexually explicit material to children, even though he could provide no evidence that it was happening. And that was kind of one of his big platforms just to use us as his as pawns to help get elected. But yeah, we had nine anti-library bills. Only one passed, but it was to water down the requirements for public library directors to, they don’t no longer have a, have to have a degree. And that’s so that our current library directors can be replaced with unqualified people. The rumors are with pastors and other people that are not, not qualified.

 

SREENIVASAN: So we’ve seen kind of a politicization of what otherwise we would think is probably one of the least political jobs in the country is to be a librarian. But now, at least in Louisiana, if those members can be, if those directors can be replaced, then I guess it kind of is wherever the wind blows and whoever’s in power at that point.

 

JONES: Yeah. And we’re lucky that the other bills didn’t pass. There were several other bills. One bill, HB777, was if we went to, librarians went to an American Library Association conference, and we asked to be reimbursed through our work, that we could serve two years hard labor in prison. I don’t, it is just, to me, it’s, doesn’t make any sense. Librarians, we don’t go into our jobs for, you know, money or fame or fortune. We go in because we love kids, we love the community, and we wanna help provide resources. So something that to me should be a first amendment right. And a nonpartisan issue has become political and there’s so many untruths being told about libraries and librarians all across the United States.

 

SREENIVASAN: So tell us a little bit about that. I mean, now let’s kind of zoom out one step further. Where is this, this effort to ban books or constrain the power of librarians across the country? What do we see happening?

 

JONES: Well, it’s in every single state. All 50 states. And it happens at the local level in each state. But we also have states like Missouri passed a law against librarians to imprison librarians. You have, you know, in Utah, they’ve, they created a law that if three school districts don’t like a book, then those books are banned across the entire state from every school. This is sweeping legislation that’s happening all across the country. Librarians are being harassed. My situation is not unique. I can name a librarian in every state like me, who has been targeted and harassed and defamed, and there’s hundreds of us. And it’s, I’m concerned about the state of libraries because eventually people are gonna leave the profession. And it’s happening, you know, to school librarians and public librarians.

 

SREENIVASAN: Is there already a chilling effect? I mean, if somebody is trying to, you know, do public records requests of all the emails that you’ve written and so forth, is that having an effect on someone who chose to become a librarian, not expecting all this?

 

JONES: Yes, it’s very intimidating when they constantly submit public records requests, they’re you know, it’s an intimidation factor. But what you’re seeing is librarians are scared to order books. And the books they’re scared to order are any books with LGBTQI+ characters or any books by authors or with characters of people of color. And so it’s creating like a soft censorship effect. Librarians are scared to order books. So in turn, there are gonna be students that are not gonna see themselves represented on the shelves in the library.

 

SREENIVASAN: You know there’s a passage from your book here that you write, “I have taught Queer students who have been mocked in our community. They are name called, treated as unequal, and often shunned. I have taught Queer kids who grew up and took their own lives due to the loneliness of ostracization and have watched dozens of our younger citizens move away from our parish to more inclusive environments because they are sick of their ill treatment.” I mean, kind of connect those dots a little bit more for us. What, why is it so significant for a child who might be LGBTQ+ to see themselves in a book?

 

JONES: Well, you know, books save lives. Not just the LGBTQ community. We have a lot of kids in foster care, kids that have parents with drug addiction and then books can, they can read a book and they can see that they’re not alone, that this is happening to other people. They can find resources to get help, ask for help if they’re in situations at home. You know, and we all have, whether anybody wants to admit it or not, we all have students that have, are from households that might have two moms or two dads. And those parents pay taxes just like everybody else. And those kids deserve to have books in their library with characters that represent themselves and their families.

 

SREENIVASAN: So a lot of the pushback on the books that are on the shelves in libraries seems to be wrapped in the language of parental rights. And on the surface, it looks like a very reasonable argument that a parent should have the right to figure out what their child reads at what age. What’s so wrong with that line of thinking?

 

JONES: Well, there’s, you know, to me, there’s nothing wrong with the parent wanting to be in charge of their own children and what they read and what they have access to. I am all for parental rights. What we’re seeing is bad faith actors that are doing mass challenges. What we’re seeing in my community is not parents, it’s not even people with library cards, that are challenging books that they’ve never read because someone told them to. Sometimes in other parishes and other counties and across the United States, sometimes hundreds of books. These people don’t have parents in the schools. They don’t even, sometimes don’t even live in those communities. I have no problem with a parent saying, Hey, I don’t like this book for my child. Can you maybe not let my child have access to it? Or even requesting a book reconsidered. That’s, I have no problem with that, but that’s not what we’re seeing. We’re seeing extremist groups push hundreds of these book challenges all across the US.

 

SREENIVASAN: Is there a playbook here? I mean, what kind of, walk me through step by step, what happens to a librarian now in 50 states across America?

 

JONES: Well, we try to do our jobs <laugh>, but oftentimes what will happen is someone in the community, and if you trace it back, it’s usually to some dark money nonprofit group that’s stirring up drama. And they’ll take a page of a book out of context, and they’ll post it in local community pages and rile everyone up. Then the politicians swoop in to save the day with, with solutions to problems that don’t exist. Usually it happens when there’s a local election and these politicians are running for some form of office. Then you’ll see people swoop in. They’ll try to overtake public library boards, school boards. Those people get into power, then you see legislation. And the ultimate goal is to defund schools and push charter schools and to privatize public library systems.

 

SREENIVASAN: I know that you’re, now you’re active, you’ve formed a Facebook group support group for librarians around the country, and you’re a co-founder of Louisiana Citizens Against Censorship. But what are the stories that you’re hearing from other librarians about what’s happening in their, not just school districts, but in their communities?

 

JONES: I tell you, it’s so hard to get phone calls from librarians that cry that this is happening to them. I get messages and emails every week. Librarians just crying upset. They don’t know what to do. They don’t understand why they’re being targeted. People in their communities become obsessed with them and won’t leave them alone. It’s disheartening. I, the fact that we have to have a librarian support group, is something I never thought we would do, have to have. It’s just sad. It’s, ’cause it is happening to school librarians and public librarians, and it’s, I’m very concerned about the state of our libraries. This era of harassment of librarians and of censorship and book bans, even if we solve the problem in the next year, we’re gonna see the effects for decades.

 

SREENIVASAN: Tell me a little bit about the scale of the book bans. I know Pen America said that there were a record number of attempted book bans in the last part of last year.

 

JONES: Yeah, they actually reported this week that there were 10,000 reported book bans within the last year at schools. The ALA, American Library Association, puts out a yearly report. It seems like last year there were around 4,000, maybe a little more, which was double the number from the year before, which was double the number from the year before. It’s growing exponentially. But on the other side, we are seeing court cases – there’s cases in Florida and Texas, and that they have had success – and so we’re hoping that maybe this will slow it down or stop it. But it, I think a lot hinges on our next presidential election.

 

SREENIVASAN: If you had an opportunity to make a sales pitch to America on why this election is so consequential, what would that be?

 

JONES: Well, I would say the push against libraries is kind of the same push against public education. Women’s rights, rights of children, human issue, human rights issues, it’s all connected. So libraries might not be in the top five, but a lot of those other issues might be in the top five for you, and they’re all connected. So you vote for someone who’s going to be for human rights, for women’s rights, reproductive rights, you know, that’s gonna help libraries too.

 

SREENIVASAN: Amanda Jones, the author of “That Librarian: The Fight Against Book Banning in America,” and a librarian herself. Thanks so much for joining us.

JONES: Thanks for having me.