Speaker Why do you think he waited to introduce you to Kapa?

Speaker Shimazaki.

Speaker Very secretive and always carrying a little box of cakes for the girlfriends and all those.

Speaker Was Andre like him? There was nothing in. That's a tall.

Speaker Do you do you remember what Andre was like in the nineteen thirties? Was he rich? Was he poor? Was he quiet?

Speaker I live day by day. I don't remember all this.

Speaker When you think of Andre, Andre or Papa, when you see the name comes to mind, do you have an image of him in your mind of Andre?

Speaker We're all Catholic images of the doomed.

Speaker And I remember when it was an uprising, some trouble and the battle of the dome was shouting.

Speaker Recently, so really shook up because the price was so.

Speaker That's a long time ago. Was that the popular popular Popular Front uprising similar to that of the football stars on Facebook? It was before a long, long time ago. Yes, long time.

Speaker I'm.

Speaker Somewhere I read that people called you Chhim and capture the Three Musketeers.

Speaker I've never heard that.

Speaker Do you think it's a good description? I don't know what's a Three Musketeers approach because it a that Alexander generally.

Speaker Were you three all friends?

Speaker Assume it is car. About. From where your ashim satire.

Speaker And in your opinion, what you read, you said Kepa was like a bull fighter. How?

Speaker I come from where you are.

Speaker Was he an adventurer?

Speaker Constitutions are not your usual.

Speaker We were all adventurer's.

Speaker And how were you? What adventures did you all go on? What were your adventures?

Speaker She's sniffing.

Speaker Sniffing for what?

Speaker For life. To be alive. I'm not playing a game.

Speaker And sniffing for life, for life itself or for the camera?

Speaker Camera is just a tool.

Speaker Offering more.

Speaker And what did Cappa use the camera for? What do you think his purpose was in taking pictures of war, for example?

Speaker Nor just Slughorn, we all did. But the Spanish War was a premonition of the World War.

Speaker You were you also photographed in Spain? No, I did the film.

Speaker You made a film in Spain. Yes, what was it about?

Speaker The war.

Speaker Oh, she did. It was propaganda to raise money for the hospital, Spanish hospitals.

Speaker Did it work or did it raise money?

Speaker Was it a success in that way, famous finish or do war was finished.

Speaker To the stupidity to work on the film takes too much time, but as human capital photographs, we check out the next minute and the film takes a very long time. It was very stupid of me, but it was a way to raise money for hospitals.

Speaker But the hospital still needed the money after the war, probably.

Speaker I read that it did raise money. Did succeed.

Speaker And so when Kepa and Chhim took these pictures, how did it affect the public? I mean, what I'm trying to get at is the reason that Kepa would put his life in danger to take these pictures. Why?

Speaker What did he want?

Speaker It's just a guess, you can only guess, but you know him, you see, you're the only one that knew him really in Paris. For such a long time, so I'm asking you as somebody who knew him. Why would he go to take these pictures?

Speaker Rajeev.

Speaker You were defending. Come on. You all defending the court, shut up. If all goes like this.

Speaker Yes. It was a premonition of the next war.

Speaker Did you hope that your pictures would. Stop the war, no.

Speaker What did because we felt we had to that's.

Speaker You believed it was important. But it is important.

Speaker In your pictures, there is a lot of play, wonderful, wonderful sense of play.

Speaker What do you do, not all of them, but many have. They make you feel the moment. Kepa also have that ability.

Speaker Capa was an adventurer and she was a philosopher.

Speaker And together, you all formed Magnum. I was going to ask you about Magnum, how it began and why it began.

Speaker I don't think I had anything to do with that, I was going into the forest for three years.

Speaker When I saw my mom.

Speaker I don't remember.

Speaker Do you remember the pinball machine, everybody talks about Kapa playing pinball downstairs from the Magnum office?

Speaker Yes. Did you play with him there? Only four per.

Speaker What about running the business?

Speaker Cappa and money. Let's talk about this. But we didn't care what.

Speaker She knew about money, Capa used the.

Speaker What did he do with the money that when he got money for gambling, all sorts of things, but.

Speaker This Schimmel's quite different.

Speaker Do you think that Cappa gambled with his life?

Speaker Who is capato Andre? Yes, Andre.

Speaker And Geldart.

Speaker What do you remember about Garralda? What was she like?

Speaker Fragile.

Speaker Shalvoy, Wimbish Kitto.

Speaker Well, she intelligent.

Speaker She was intelligent, very, very kapa don't know. Andre.

Speaker All right. Do you remember after Gerda died? How how Andre was after Gerda's death.

Speaker I saw him crying. It was very strange.

Speaker And the hard gun was holding him.

Speaker And we came from the cemetery.

Speaker Louis Aragon.

Speaker Did he change, did Andre change, was he different after her death?

Speaker Probably.

Speaker We all did. In what ways I can describe?

Speaker There's a secret life. You can't talk about all the. So personal, yes, nobody's business.

Speaker We're trying to help the audience for this film and understand Andre as a man, what he went through, why he took his pictures.

Speaker No. I was much closer to him.

Speaker And you are all so different, all of you so different, Chhim.

Speaker Yes.

Speaker Can you describe the differences? What was different about you and your pictures in your lives?

Speaker I don't know. It's not my problem. So keep on sniffing.

Speaker You kept on sniffing. What were you looking for?

Speaker Reallife.

Speaker You often say that. Cap, I told you not to call yourself a serialist with the photojournalist's over.

Speaker Not to have a label photo serialist.

Speaker I was.

Speaker My work would become precious and finished just to be. And it was controlled. That was much closer to Jim.

Speaker Oh, so you decided not to call yourself a surrealist. What what did he tell you to call yourself?

Speaker Photojournalist. And were you are you a photojournalist?

Speaker I don't know what it means. All this these are labels and to get rid of labels.

Speaker Xscape.

Speaker I read that you were more experienced photographer when you met Andre. I was one more experienced you were more experienced at photography, but that he was more experienced. Telling stories with pictures. Did he did you learn anything from him about telling stories with pictures?

Speaker I don't know. Of Najah.

Speaker Did you teach him anything? I have nothing to teach. Maybe. Well, what I like. Know, Banafsheh, anarchy, anarchy is an ethic.

Speaker Can you tell me can you explain a little bit?

Speaker There's no explanation.

Speaker What is anarchy, an ethical way of behaving?

Speaker Janice Powell.

Speaker And Anacapa. Capra was chased by fascism from Budapest to Berlin, from Berlin to Paris, from Paris to America. Maybe you remember well, I don't know exactly what my question is, but. I think he was fighting fascism with his camera.

Speaker Do you think?

Speaker Mickum rollbar, yes. All of us were.

Speaker Can you ask them to say the whole audience will hear me?

Speaker This is a bit of the dogs that you were of fighting fascism.

Speaker Yes. Or fighting fascism. It was obvious.

Speaker And. Was the camera your weapon?

Speaker Or how are you fighting fascism, how?

Speaker To keep alive.

Speaker But in what ways, what what tools?

Speaker A necessity, but soul. He had to.

Speaker But you didn't? Well, you did, actually, but.

Speaker I never actually fought in a war, he never picked up a gun. But he was fighting, so maybe you could say, how was he fighting?

Speaker No.

Speaker Did he use his camera or do you think that way for.

Speaker It was much more an adventure and shoom.

Speaker And yet they both died in similar similar circumstances. Do you remember when Andre when papa died?

Speaker Where he was.

Speaker Coincidence?

Speaker Was when Bischof died? Oh, she died at the same time, as we well know. Yeah, assume that a couple of years later it's official. That's right. She sort of died the same day as Capa. Yeah, he's right there.

Speaker So we're coming from a night train from Rome. And I learned it in Acapulco.

Speaker Good to see you. Come on, people I know don't be shy of.

Speaker Ali.

Speaker My first wife said, what, and it was a quid pro quo I don't want. At the same time as Rob.

Speaker Were you shocked or do you remember?

Speaker And I thought I was finished with Magnum.

Speaker Did you learn was it a group decision to go on without without Kappa?

Speaker Did you just sit there and this is your do you go to continue for.

Speaker Did you ever go in a car with Kevin driving?

Speaker I don't think so, no. He was a notoriously bad driver. He had accidents, whatever he drove.

Speaker Can you imagine Cappa as an old man?

Speaker She was born old. Capano.

Speaker Can you can you explain that just a little bit?

Speaker She was carrying a Jewish sadness on his back all the time.

Speaker And kakapos, mother. It was sort of gypsy kapa. I don't know if I'm going and if it was a Jew, I have no idea.

Speaker In count. Spanish counted. Gerald. Spanish was a premonition of the last one.

Speaker You mean, did you meet his girl is later girlfriend, Jamie Oliver? Did you know his girlfriend's supposed girlfriends?

Speaker Jamie Very well. I like it very much.

Speaker Did she help capture? Or what?

Speaker I don't know, each one was on his own way, but I remember they were.

Speaker They used to go to the races a lot. Jimmy and Jimmy and Papa used to go to the races a lot.

Speaker It was.

Speaker Magnum's money.

Speaker You also say me, it's interesting to say that got the better of the races and he laughed and bring back money to pay the secretaries of with the.

Speaker It was gambling all the time.

Speaker She was not a gambler. I'm. I'm not a gambler. I don't think.

Speaker And then when he took the Magnum money, would he win or lose, what would he bring it back or who cares?

Speaker Money of one was the money of the other.

Speaker We did make a comment like this. The small organization. After it became too big and a huge thing and no longer the same.

Speaker The spirit of Magnum, was there a family feeling, a family spirit, their family?

Speaker Certainly not a family. Who had? We said that.

Speaker I think it is a horrible novel. What does it mean then you finally have I hate you.

Speaker Love, hate. I think it's himbo.

Speaker If you're all the three of you so different, but you form this great thing together, how did you work together? How did you.

Speaker I don't know.

Speaker I was much closer to Shrem.

Speaker She was very delicate. I know he was a Russian.

Speaker Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker Running around.

Speaker You said he played poker with Spooner to get you all jobs. Yes, it's extremely bizarre.

Speaker What's it called, gin rummy? It was an expert. And it was playing with who was the head of Illustrated. So. That's how we managed to get jobs.

Speaker So Cappa was helping everybody to get jobs.

Speaker Yes, and for himself, for others and.

Speaker And for your work.

Speaker I know you kind of divided the territory, George Rodger, I believe, took Africa and shoes on your trousers.

Speaker I'll tell you when I came back after three years in the Far East. It was the only gentleman in Magnum.

Speaker Very different, again, very different, very respectable. But you are respectable, no. You are not respectable not. Why not? You didn't drink, you didn't gamble.

Speaker She was very delicate.

Speaker You suffered quite a great deal by Ms.

Speaker Mosaddeq is.

Speaker It was a fun little. Tupperware's not.

Speaker But Jim became a soldier, right? Jim fought in the war, I believe.

Speaker Did you believe in the war? It was a big mistake.

Speaker Big mistake.

Speaker Well, he must have been he must have believed it was important to stop Hitler.

Speaker But. Trustability.

Speaker He's talking about the war he died, actually. Oh, the sewers. You could tell about where she died.

Speaker How do you put the amount? Shame, because just the amount of work you saw last year.

Speaker It's a big mistake was disgusting.

Speaker Yeah. Do you remember when you heard of Jim's death?

Speaker What did I learn at the same time?

Speaker Well, Fish and Andre died, but one day apart, but she was a few years later.

Speaker So far, this. Memories remain, but dates and so on.

Speaker No, I can remember a box of chocolates, delicacies, which was pretty minimal always. Many ladies around Jim. How many were hitting on the bosoms and he was going to marry me?

Speaker Jim. Here's. And Cappato.

Speaker Were there a lot of women around Kapa?

Speaker They are quite different. The three of us were very different. And very close together at the same time.

Speaker Yes, that interests me how you became close when you were so different. Do you have any thoughts about. What was what were his strengths and what were his weaknesses? Maybe you should translate that. What was what was.

Speaker And. But was he good at what was he bad at?

Speaker And friendship, you don't go into all the details.

Speaker So, Lump-sum.

Speaker Unconditional love that. What do you mean?

Speaker That translates, which is critical if I say no more. We thank you for letting the photograph photograph, we are going to get you to think of it as well.

Speaker That was a real problem, its independence toward the magazine's.

Speaker What we were fighting for. Shemekia Kapono.

Speaker And you know, you. We own our negative. And it's a way to be respected and not to be your employers or tools of big magazines. That was the main thing of Magnum, and I think it still is.

Speaker You were pioneers in that way.

Speaker That was the name Magnum. Where does it come from?

Speaker Champaigne. Maybe you could, because, again, we hear me say this till I get your name, Magnum, in the name of Magnum, which was a name on account of when we were meeting to was bottle of champagne.

Speaker Though I don't drink that stuff. And for Rick Warren. But.

Speaker Did you have a glass of champagne when you formed Magnum?

Speaker Probably, but I wasn't there when Lignum was for. Within New York, I think, I don't know. But elsewhere on. He was in India, in India. I think.

Speaker Do you remember do you remember photographing in India what you were photographing there at that time?

Speaker I was living. And photographing is just recording. So we're taking notes.

Speaker When you look at your pictures. Are there any that you love the most?

Speaker No, to continue and. It's a way of living.

Speaker And when you think of Andre or Papa. Are there any of his photographs you remember, the most famous or.

Speaker Come to your memory most sharply.

Speaker Sheneman copouts all the same for me.

Speaker The pictures seem conception of life, of fighting, of enjoying.

Speaker Yes, they both had. Such an interesting combination of.

Speaker The ability to go in and do the job in difficult circumstances and then to celebrate and yes, there were entirely different.

Speaker The three of us.

Speaker You can explain what I'm getting is. They could go to war, but they could also.

Speaker I have a wonderful time, but without him, there wouldn't be any Magnum. By laws and things I want to pushing.

Speaker Was of.

Speaker What did he want to contribute? What was his main contribution to Magnum?

Speaker Adventurer. What a shame. Was very methodical and.

Speaker Was Kepa an idea person? Did he have many ideas?

Speaker Oh, Shimazu ideas. She was very intelligent. I'm sad.

Speaker USA, the couple suggested you going to certain places. Oh, yes.

Speaker By premonitions.

Speaker What kind of premonitions?

Speaker All the different, Gelbaum. Was terrible.

Speaker Anything else that you think would be good to ask?

Speaker What is your is could you. Yes, you owe me a.

Speaker Je ne. Come on.

Speaker She wouldn't let me go. Go, go. Come on. He got up. But it's going to be up to the. These two boxes in the back photograph the girl.

Speaker You get the person to buy a photograph of girl and you to. Further offshore could have come to the to quote a. It was a gambler.

Speaker Shimano. It's Kapa.

Speaker How was a gambler just with cards?

Speaker With our money.

Speaker Did he ever win it back? Did he win ever?

Speaker I don't know, but these problems exist among us between Shimako by nine. Would make counts among ourselves.

Speaker There were some hard years, though, some difficult years, difficult financially, I think.

Speaker Politically difficult. How so?

Speaker World War One, World War two, World War McCarthy, come, McCarthy, McCarthy, McCarthy.

Speaker But.

Speaker Was there's only.

Speaker It had difficulties with my girlfriend.

Speaker Yes, he did. Do you remember? Yes, they took his passport. Yes. Could you maybe you could.

Speaker Could you? Yes, I had difficulties with the car. So they took his passport. Yes. Because they took your passport of a couple of.

Speaker And.

Speaker How did he respond? What what happened to capture when they took his passport?

Speaker I'm getting it now. He was a man so far away, I don't I don't remember travel. It was terrible for him. He couldn't travel anymore. He was.

Speaker There is solidarity among us. I don't remember. I am living day by day and it's quite far away, Alder's.

Speaker How old are you already?

Speaker Last time.

Speaker Last time I was, what, 90 something?

Speaker It's amazing. It's amazing. You remember what you do remember. It's amazing that you're here.

Speaker I'm an anarchist. That's what it means. I'm against power.

Speaker Would you put executive new put your makeup on? Could you come on something wild or could I have come because I'm here?

Speaker I thought it was very important to celebrate the memory of Coppo. Combined shame. There was a unity. Of aims, of thinking of.

Speaker And you lived you have lived so much longer, it's almost 50 years now since they both were gone.

Speaker They're gone in a way, but president still.

Speaker That's great. Was I think that's fantastic. You can think of any other way. Thank you. That was.

Speaker Schools of come off of extremely come and see that this could deliver. They are the ones the matinee.

Speaker How was he managed to get them when you need to testify and to control our work.

Speaker So we're not employees of magazines.

Speaker The volatile stuff, we should thank you and kept on.

Speaker And it's still going on. Seems very.

Speaker Was there a spirit of the law?

Speaker Go ahead, you have to drink to cup, I'm sure.

Speaker You know, X.

Speaker Was there other than owning the negatives, was there another? Philosophy or were there was there a common belief? And the reason for photographing or in the way of photographing.

Speaker I was away for three years, so suddenly when I came back that I met George Roger.

Speaker We interviewed his widow, Jinkx. We interviewed her, she was great mayor. Only male CBS.

Speaker For him, there were so many ladies. Hitting on the president said he was going to marry me. I know the names, but I won't give them.

Speaker Is there anything else you would like to say about copper or Shim?

Speaker We're all very different and there was a solidarity at the same time. But I can put down in writing or whatsoever, but I wrote a little text on. I've I've written and shame also, yes, oh, yes, you also. We'll get good, good kuduro. Read the text sometime on Schoeman, on Kapa.

Speaker Yes, absolutely.

Speaker George George was different. He was a gentleman.

Speaker I'll tell Jinx you said so, I'll tell Jinx you said so with these wonderful photographs during the Blitz.

Speaker And in Belsen, there's proof that you could you release could Georgia the bill, a dollar for dollar bleed to.

Speaker George was a gentleman. At the same time, the. Courageous. Well, British.

Speaker During the Blitz, all these pictures of. So it's a unit in Magnum. All different and the same way of sniffing of what's going on.

Speaker Fantastic.

Speaker I don't have any more questions, but I feel that you have so much inside you.

Speaker What can I say?

Speaker So we're loving to take pictures. I'm hating at the same time, fighting.

Speaker Must keep on. And.

Speaker We respect the customers, but we're not that we don't belong to them. I mean, just to keep on.

Henri-Cartier Bresson
Interview Date:
American Archive of Public Broadcasting GUID:
"Henri-Cartier Bresson, Robert Capa: In Love and War." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). 07 Feb. 2002,
(2002, February 07). Henri-Cartier Bresson, Robert Capa: In Love and War. [Video]. American Masters Digital Archive (WNET).
"Henri-Cartier Bresson, Robert Capa: In Love and War." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). February 07, 2002. Accessed June 26, 2022


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