Speaker So somewhere. What did we learn? Remember when we were in the band together or something?

Speaker You see?

Speaker When you ready? OK.

Speaker You know of all with one. Were you in clips of a baseball team? We invented it. Yes, I was in it. I was on the team as well. He had a baseball and I can picture that theme. Cab Calloway. We had a baseball team. Kevin, what? Uniforms and everything. And we played other bears. We played Woody Herman's band. And we played in Central Park with three different bands coming to an end. Terry Carignan, the captain of the team. I thought Mickey was make it was manager. He was a manager. And then Kerry got to be a captain. And Carter wasn't too good a player. Let's play Major with flair. And Terry took him off the team and he got mad and sold the team for a period. So that's, I guess, a picture of Milwaukee with Joe Louis, which you guys are out watching this play play baseball series. Well, you know, Kev was really that was his forte. He was really a foot basketball player. Well, he was. Yeah, yeah. He was a basketball player and he was a kid in Chicago getting in a different time round like the system. Nice, because he was a handsome guy and was all around Camco all the time. And he wouldn't get a young guy hang out and make the sunset carefully. Joe plays his mother. Oh, did he? So let's say you mean Leaf drummer. So they put up car with a Van Gogh, put Cab Calloway, then put on a span of myson forever. And he waits, for example, his scene. And if you look and I look real to book right now, Carl Calloway's reached in on a jumps. That's right. Look at him. Look, will you go? I don't have the saxophone for long. I was gonna be vote. That was the worst mistake that could make it.

Speaker No.

Speaker This is the bass player.

Speaker Yes. No, no. Came the band with the same feeling when the band was the same as the feeling when I joined the band. That was two or three Zetten guys was listening back then.

Speaker But they were quite tight.

Speaker They were over by the heat of the scene and by the lead singer. Somebody come in. And when you came to regard that guy like this. And what he did with the theater. After every show we do six hours a day, you would be down the bass from doing so. You'd be done at a sweat. So I think they really do. They wanted a big look look like the whole above. But I really, really appreciate it. Made me. It shook me up a little bit. So I took a few lessons and Thomas helped us. But I could do some lessons.

Speaker I knew my mother. Are you guys are so great. I just wanted a camera. When you told me you Harry Tin, you could get in New York and get a good bass player. So I was trying to be a good bass player. So you guys would keep me in advance. It was very beautiful. So I wanted to be sure that you guys record respected me enough to play. So I would just be up to your level.

Speaker He never he never I'd never seen a bass player, you know, he found he was quite lovely. He knew right away that he was quite lucky to get to it.

Speaker But even he didn't have to be much spent. But reading is telling. When I hadn't gotten into the vices of which I was second to gambling and drinking. I had to sit still, chat to be a student. That's right. He went there. He came down and I was reading a book and he said to me he was getting hit. And one of I'm books, he said in my house. I got fifteen hundred bucks in my library and I felt so bad about it. But I said, I can't I don't have 50 her books. And when I read whatever book I got in my house I've read, he can have insulted by that. He tried insulting as enough as we call it, for show for professor. But he was really a beautiful man.

Speaker But I'll tell you, when I read these and I really wanted to study because I was in the barn three or four months before we got to New York. And these one night stands. And when we got to New York that night, made the friendship with you guys. Because if I was okay with you, it was Thomas. You had a big dog. You, Don Cheadle first Joseph Thomases. So was Lamar, right? If I got three, were you passed? I knew I had a good chance of staying in the.

Speaker It was shocking. I think they ended up watching. I'm going to go back to my.

Speaker Yeah, I can remember that Selma was in the trade magazines. Duccio was good, a summer player. And that time I know Foote's was stirring with words more Johnson and Merza or 40. Yeah, a saxophone player. And Doc Severinsen was a little kid. You had to see Doc with his horn kolo ever to his trumpet lessons over there at 43. Dave knew that Venice was close him. That's right.

Speaker Knew one thing, but often seen. But Cab Calloway. He has so much respect.

Speaker Yeah, he did. When he walked on the stage of class, it was always class punctuality. He said cleanliness and order, and he had to be on time. And he played the whole stage. He bought all of our uniforms. We had four or five different sets of uniforms. It was all class, but a wardrobe, wardrobe, big Asian named Ciancio wardrobe with only a travel by pool. Yeah, every fuzzball who wish to keep a Pullman porter for like two too much of the time we go to a town to separate the former colonies that actually go on. We play the town. We get to, you know, a train and train Pitts's up. It takes. It was really class.

Speaker You we we worked so hard we didn't have time to eat. No. Lamar, right.

Speaker Bottle electric salesman. Yeah. We a dressing room with his dad. He'll be cooking biscuits, chops, grits. That's right. Well, we really have to eat.

Speaker I learned how to cook up there to run that attitude that they had between shows.

Speaker They only showed a little, say, six shows ever between shows that didn't have little film. Small something. That's right. Then another show. All right, chefs. Show me schlepp. Were you the beverage schlepp of cuts down on the thing? This way I slip on the cut. By the time we play the show Bell Holler fifteen. That's right. And we run down the baseball field. Sleep on the cut.

Speaker That's a magnificent day. It's hard to explain to people that you and I have been so blessed and we see such great changes as so many beautiful things happen in our country and in our music world, the world in which we live in the music and see musicians. We have succumbed and have made that transition. We were in the forefront of making that contribution to society and life. Musician understood one of the causes auditoria art. It transcends language. It's a universal language. It doesn't depend on anything was sound. It is beautiful. And to see some of the places we come from, all the things that we we've been that we've played in. And I think young people should know more about this. They this I really appreciate these things.

Speaker They should know more about how songs, you know, when you go out and start.

Speaker We go out for six months. We whip the Cotton Club show lesson for six months. We have a Cotton Club show. And as soon as it's six months after six months and they work on another show and we go on a road, we start out theories. Start Brooklyn. You to Philadelphia. Pittsburgh. Way across the country. Detroit, Detroit. Chicago. Indianapolis. Chicago. Omaha. That's Austin, Texas. Dallas, Texas. Straight out to California.

Speaker That's going to take maybe two or three months or one night a one week stands. We can each town and this is very nice. And we your way out to California for the million dollar theater in California. And then we start back. Ports across New York again. Now we got to go back separate one night stands, dances. We go a different route from California.

Speaker We go to this doctor, tell us about it or what will.

Speaker They have trouble here without one night stands. They couldn't find. They tried to find places large enough to accommodate the people because there will be thousands of people still waiting to get in to like rock concerts.

Speaker And the manager was where they had to click on the door. Every person I ever tell you the click click, I've got to admit to manage it.

Speaker He would even talk about what they say is not good at it. So listen to what they say. Tell your what I did.

Speaker Next thing closely, your wife, while you stop. Let's finish for one night stands. I just jump. So. Yeah.

Speaker I'm sorry. Period. Let's go back to a one night stand.

Speaker Yeah. They had such a hard time, too, to find pleasure large enough, which has been. And when one thing happened. One about one night stands. Places Islam into people. There was some guy hanging around the back of the tent. Look like a tent. And he looks suspicious, like he is going to hold us up. And he will stand back in. So Sexual got behind him and he had brown and brown and brown removal.

Speaker He was a cool, cool flute. And he was going to orders up there to do that. We will. We will. On the war and about son. Something like that may happen.

Speaker Right. That's where we really had our problems. One night stands because now we get to go down south and we trained what is some of these places that we have to have buses to get bus and we hit these small towns and then will be no accommodation for us. We couldn't stay in white hotels. And it's very difficult.

Speaker We ride an all day on a bus and just get to places just in time to go on a bandstand, start playing. He didn't have anything. He didn't know where we got to stay.

Speaker It was very difficult. Were you in the band when we played Memphis, Tennessee? Yeah. That's where I met my first vibraphone. J. Camp was such a beautiful place. I mean, good looking and everything. And he was dancing one time, doing the one of the twos and shaking his head.

Speaker You know, he always did that. And so while girls kind of come up to, you know, smiling and grabbing his hand, all that and fight broke out in the place where the fight broke out.

Speaker So it shares up about his mom. I got on the table, paid to play nice. We we would never say you're faithful for a long time.

Speaker And then somebody got the four officers club and then stopped it. And then we ended that truck. Go to the trouble Pullman car. That's right. And they were throwing bottles and bricks at us all the way from the place to the pool. Come because cab was already in the car that we had. We reran the thing. We were in Memphis. We lived through that bubble in here. No, I was never there. I came up on the floor.

Speaker We were on the platform playing and he came up to me. He was turned out to be chool baton. And he did this to me. And I was playing. I said, that is it. You know, you want me to come? So I stopped playing and I went over to him. He was down on the floor. You had a half a bowl of corn, a glass of corn whiskey. You said, drink that. That's lovably.

Speaker You want a drink that you said? I said, well, I don't believe you. You got a drink that you built. So I took it up and then he turned his here. I did that. That's all. That's good. He had been to the back and I was still here. But we read and things like that. Pretty basic through the self.

Speaker And I know was in Florida. Play this big dance in the audience were crowded like like rock concerts. Not for the simple reason that back in those days. There was no television. And they hear this from the Cotton Club every night. We were broadcasting from the Cotton Club and people could hear this was coast to coast Cab Calloway resolvers. So when we were bookings, we bringing us to these towns, the people wanted to see this wonderful band that they'd been hearing. And because there was no other way to see it, you know, and they would come out in droves. But they were still living in the traditional they had neighborhoods and communities. And we go on stage and Fleak in an intermission or was just listening, go try to get to the restaurants. We had to put a group up for us to walk down. And people be trying to reach and rose to hear us. This is stupidity of the thing. This is kind of frightening. I think young people should know about that. You know how we've twisted ever brought these wonderful music around to what it is today.

Speaker Welcome back. Let's stop and remember the musicians having asylum in later years.

Speaker You sure? What do you usually sign?

Speaker We do would like maybe it was a gesture. Oh, yes, sure.

Speaker And then just get ideas about what it was like. There is another story here.

Speaker When I started Standaert many when I was with Benny, you know, he always had me to stand right next to him like this on the stage and the band would be in the back. And he never as I said before, he never would tell you what he's going to play. He just started playing something. And then in the middle of this song, the tune, he would jump, jump to another tune. And you had to be, you know, all those tunes. Well, he wouldn't tell you. Well, I'm good with the song. So he would jump from one to another.

Speaker Right. And I guess he must have been demoted, though, what he says.

Speaker He says he still believes his place.

Speaker Well, you watch my house, right? A little bit of blood. I can see it in his eye. He fell out, left. But he would never tell you what he's going to play. Just pick it up. Started play. And you had to these plans.

Speaker He had that little thing. You hear the way he would think, a several fleet. He would look up in the air. He's swinging his horse. And he'd look over there. She saw a star player.

Speaker And if he's done started useful be know. Second note, please wait a second. It seems offended that you didn't know exactly what he was going to play yesterday. And then if he did, if you replaced fishing with bass players, he was quite a tough old bass player.

Speaker Seriously, this is a ticket. It's a lot. OK. You soften up Mrs. Tony, our profile.

Speaker Real was you get to chose the video. God rest his soul. George video was played with her. Well, I was magnificent bass players. And you played with Billie given.

Speaker Billy says take it, take it down live with George Jones. Take it down quietly. He says. Clutterham profile so jurors could ever file. Says.

Speaker Well, when he said that Joyce was most dignified. He was furious. He told varices, don't call me ever again.

Speaker I'm book over, you know, what he do to be a Las Vegas replanned bells cooking. And I'd be playing a solo.

Speaker He could read Bahaman Planet back on my head. Would it be all canceled like that? Well, I'd play it slowly. You've got a big kick out of it.

Speaker I don't know why he would do it, but he I didn't say anything to it because I'd like to. I was having to be Willins and not the love to play with Bill.

Speaker Absolutely. That's just friends. I know. Even when his daughters wouldn't resource their yet. Well, we'll get good man. He'd call more and ask if they've got to come on out to the house. I don't get married in a recession. And he'd ask him why to say bring your base. But I would. I remember one time was really ridiculous.

Speaker Teddy Wilson then and I was supposed to go to Canada to play with him a concert that night, but he's got a rehearsal for a television show in the afternoon. And I go to a television show rehearsal for a television show and slam Stuart is there and John Boise's at the piano. And Slams stood his and really take was on drums and Bob Rosengard was on on on. Another play helps obsessive zones and read novel. So how would you all play together. So he said we'll give you a piece had come on play.

Speaker So two bass players or kilojoule you can't play together, just you beat him to death. So I said slam as he slam you play the four cause and then after the second chorus slashes. Okay. So literally. So I was playing the first course and I was standing there not playing. Now we're both I to play. So I had to play it. He was like box as he hadn't gritted teeth. We sat on the here basically we had a bass player over here. So I stopped here.

Speaker So I stopped playing. He says, Amelda. You can off the best, did you get off, I got off advanced and in the rest rehearsal.

Speaker He never called me back on advanced and now I'm supposed to go and get a plane that afternoon and go to Canada and flew with even Teddy Wilson. Soon. I'm furious. Not now. Stewart is making all rehearsals. And I'm not playing anything.

Speaker So they take a five minute break and I say this is a very. If I were, I don't play rabbits, no sesame are staying around here. So he picked up his credibility. Is it he racist?

Speaker OK, Pops. So I packed up my base in a few hours. And I had my uniform to get on a plane to go that night to play with you, sir. I thought they didn't get what he's delivery boys to take his uniform and send it back to his office. I'm not going to go off that plane. And I didn't go either. I refused to go and play with it.

Speaker We had all kinds of things that I love to do because I respected his great musicianship. But he's a it was just something about him was quite different. And I said, well, he was a quite lonely man, really lonely. Out of the corner of the recording session in New York and see Benny on Broadway and one of those places where they had those pinball machines and he'd be standing there alone by himself playing a pinball machine.

Speaker But he would never he was never able to come to the challenge song or German. And it's a musician at Beefsteak Charlie's where musician hung out and then everybody else would come out and show can come and all the other guys who come and have a video would never do that. He just kept himself loose from us. And even though he liked us. I can I've got another real funny when I can tell you about California. There was a big jazz concert in California in college called Jemison, who asked me to bring out a group of jazz masses, older guys.

Speaker I don't want have to keep dark. I guess I'm going to start again later. Thanks so much.

Doc Cheatham and Milton Hinton
Interview Date:
American Archive of Public Broadcasting GUID:
cpb-aacip-504-b27pn8xz5p, cpb-aacip-504-x639z9170r
"Doc Cheatham and Milton Hinton, Benny Goodman: Adventures in the Kingdom of Swing." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). 21 Jan. 1993,
(1993, January 21). Doc Cheatham and Milton Hinton, Benny Goodman: Adventures in the Kingdom of Swing. [Video]. American Masters Digital Archive (WNET).
"Doc Cheatham and Milton Hinton, Benny Goodman: Adventures in the Kingdom of Swing." American Masters Digital Archive (WNET). January 21, 1993. Accessed January 29, 2022


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