>>> NEVER NIGHT THOUSANDS OF NEW

YORKERS AWAITING TRIAL WILL

SLEEP BEHIND BARS BECAUSE THEY

CAN'T AFFORD BAIL.

GOVERNOR CUOMO IS TRYIN INGING

CHANGE THAT BY DOING AWAY WITH

CASH BONDS.

SENATE REPUBLICANS ARGUING THAT

THIS IS NOT A FISCAL MATTER.

REPUBLICANS MAY PLAN TO HANDLE

IT LATER IN THE LEGISLATIVE

SESSION, DEPENDING ON HOW THIS

ALL PLAYS OUT.

SO AS PART OF OUR ONGOING

CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON

POVERTY AND OPPORTUNITY IN

AMERICA TONIGHT, WE DISCUSS THE

POSSIBILITY OF BAIL REFORM AND

WHAT IT MEANS TO NEW YORK AND

JOINING US TO DISCUSS THIS

MATTER AND SHED SOME LIGHT ON

ALL OF THIS IS WNYC'S SENIOR

REPORTER WHO HAS BEEN COVERING

THE TOPIC IN DETAIL.

BETH, WELCOME TO YOU.

LET'S START OFF BY GIVING OUR

VIEWERS A SENSE OF THE NATURE OF

THE PROBLEMS.

WHY IS THIS SOMETHING NOW, BAIL

REFORM BEING FOCUSED ON IN NEW

YORK.

>> THERE'S BEEN A GROWING FOCUS

ON BAIL FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO ENSURE THAT A

DEFENDANT COMES BACK TO COURT.

AND IN NEW YORK, THE ONLY

CONSIDERATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE

A DEFENDANT'S RISK OF FLIGHT.

BUT WHAT WINDS UP HAPPENING IF

YOU'RE WEALTHY AND YOU'RE

ACCUSED OF SOMETHING, YOU CAN

AFFORD TO GET OUT.

BUT SOMEBODY CHARGED WITH AN

OFFENSE, A MISDEMEANOR OR A

FELONY, THEY HAVE TO STAY BEHIND

BARS BECAUSE OF THEIR INABILITY

TO STAY.

ALMOST 4,000 PEOPLE A NIGHT ARE

THERE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T

AFFORD TO BE BAILED OUT OR THEY

DON'T HAVE A RELATIVE WHO CAN DO

IT.

SO THEY'RE THERE, EACH NIGHT,

ABOUT 4,000 PEOPLE.

AND THAT COSTS NEW YORK CITY

ABOUT $116 MILLION A YEAR,

ACCORDING TO THE IBO.

SO IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT DOING THE

RIGHT THING FOR THE POOR, IT'S

ALSO A FISCAL ISSUE FOR THE CITY

AS THEY TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO

SHRINK THE POPULATION AND

EVENTUALLY CLOSE RIKERS.

>> GIVE US THE ELEMENTS OF THE

GOV

GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL.

>> FIRST OF ALL THE GOVERNOR

WOULD DO AWAY WITH CASH BAIL FOR

PEOPLE CHARGED WITH MISDEMEANORS

AND NONVIOLENT FELONIES.

AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS INSTEAD

OF A BAIL BEING SET TO MAKE SURE

THEY COME BACK TO COURT, THEY

WOULD BE RELEASED WITH AN CANS,

NOT MONETARY CONDITIONS.

THAT COULD INCLUDE TAKING AWAY

YOUR PASSPORT, SAYING YOU HAVE

TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS, IT CAN

INCLUDE TURNING IN YOUR FIREARM

OR YOUR WEAPON.

IT COULD INCLUDE SUPERVISION,

WHERE YOU CHECK IN WITH A COURT

ON A REGULAR BASIS.

WE HAVE SUPERVISIONED RELEASE IN

NEW YORK CITY BUT ITS ONLY FOR A

FEW

FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE.

SO TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEBODY

CAN BE MONITORED AND MAKE SURE

THEY'RE NOT A FLIGHT RISK

WITHOUT PUTTING DOWN MONEY.

>> SOMEONE LISTENING TO OUR

CONVERSATION HERE, AND THEY SAY

WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT ABOUT

VIOLENT CRIMES, THINGS LIKE

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WHAT IS THE

APPROACH GOING TO BE FOR THEM?

>> FIRST OF ALL, ANYONE CHARGED

WITH A VIOLENT FELONY, YOU CAN

STILL SET BAIL, ALTHOUGH JUDGES

WOULD ENCOURAGE JUDGES TO

CONSIDER NONMONETARY

ALTERNATIVES AS WELL.

BUT HE'S CREATED A CARVEOUT AND

THIS IS KIND OF CONTROVERSIAL,

FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, ANY CASES

WHETHER THEY'RE MISDEMEANORS OR

FELONIES FOR DMOMESTIC VIOLENCE

AS WELL AS WHAT ARE CALLED

SERIOUS VIOLENCE, WITNESS

INTIMIDATION, AND I'M PUTTING

THIS IN QUOTES, BECAUSE THEY'RE

KIND OF VAGUE WHEN YOU PUT IT

INTO THE OPPONENTS.

AS WELL AS WILLFULLY FAILING TO

APPEAR IN COURT.

AND ANOTHER ONE THAT PEOPLE ARE

VERY CONCERNED ABOUT, IS THAT IF

YOU'RE ARRESTED AGAIN WHILE

YOU'RE OUT, THEN THE JUDGE ALSO

HAS THE OPTION OF JAILING YOU

FOR FIVE DAYS AND THEN HAVING A

HEARING ON WHETHER YOU SHOULD BE

RELEASED.

SO THOSE CATEGORIES, DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE, SERIOUS VIOLENCE,

INTIMIDATING A WITNESS, WHAT

COULD HAPPEN IS THERE'S LIKE A

NEW MECHANISM WHERE A PROSECUTOR

CAN TELL A JUDGE, THAT PERSON, I

THINK THEY SHOULD BE LOCKED UP

FOR FIVE DAYS WHILE WE CONSIDER

WHAT TO DO WITH THEM, AND THEN

AFTER THE FIVE DAYS, THERE'S A

HEARING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT CAN

HAPPEN NEXT.

AND WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WOULD

EITHER BE YOU'RE STILL HELD OR

THEY COME UP WITH ONE OF THESE

NONMONETARY CONDITIONS FOR

WATCHING YOU WHILE YOU'RE OUT.

BUT PUBLIC DEFENDERS ARE VERY

WORRIED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR

ABUSE THERE.

>> WHAT SORT OF REACTION ARE WE

SEEING FROM REPUBLICANS, FIRST

ABOUT THE NOTION OF BAIL REFORM

AND SECOND ABOUT THE PROPRIETY

OF INCLUDING IT IN A BUDGET

PROPOSAL?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S

DEFINITELY SOME CONCERNS AMONG

THE REPUBLICAN SENATORS.

THEY SHARE SOME CONCERNS THAT

PROSECUTORS HAVE, THAT THIS MAY

ACTUALLY ENABLE TOO MANY PEOPLE

TO BE OUT WITH SUPERVISION, WHO

ARE AFLIGHT RISK IF THEY COMMIT

A CRIME UPSTATE, BUT THEY LIVE

DOWNSTATE.

THIS IS WHAT THE DISTRICT

ATTORNEY'S ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN

TALKING ABOUT, IS WE HAVE PEOPLE

WHO COME FROM NEW YORK CITY,

THEY COME TO OUR TOWN, THEY SELL

HEROIN LACED WITH FENTANYL AND

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KEEP

MONITORING THEM?

SO THERE'S DEFINITELY CONCERNS

THAT ARE SHARED BY SENATE

REPUBLICANS THERE.

BUT BEFORE THEY HAVE SEEN REALLY

GOTTEN INTO THE SUBSTANCE, THEIR

MAIN CONCERN SEEMS TO BE, THIS

DOESN'T BELONG IN THE BUDGET.

THIS IS NOT A BUDGETARY ISSUE,

LET'S DEAL WITH THAT LATER IN

THE BUDGET SESSION.

>> SOME PEOPLE INCLUDING

PROSECUTORS ARE JUST WORRIED

ABOUT THE OPTICS OF THIS, AND

CERTAINLY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT

HAPPENS IN THE WORST-CASE

SCENARIO, SOMEBODY GETS OUT AND

THEN GOES OUT AND COMMITS AN

EVEN MORE MAJOR CRIME.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HOW THE

REST OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE

SYSTEM IS LOOKING AT THIS AND

LOOKING AT THESE PROPOSALS?

>> SO I INTERVIEWED JUDGE JUDY

HARRIS CLKLUGER, FORMER JUDGE W

NOW RUNS THE CENTER FOR DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE.

AND SHE ACTUALLY RAN A DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE COURT IN QUEENS.

I ASKED HER, ARE YOU WORRIED

ABOUT?

SHE SAID NOT REALLY, SHE SAID

SHE DIDN'T THINK JUDGES WOULD

ABUSE IT.

SHE SAID IF THERE ARE NOW

ALTERNATIVES TO BAIL, SHE WOULD

BE INTERESTED IN EXPLORING THAT

IF SHE WAS STILL ON THE BENCH.

SO IF THERE WERE TIGHT

RESTRICTIONS FOR MAKING SURE

THAT PERSON KEEPS CHECKING IN

AND STAYS AWAY FROM THE VICTIM,

WAYS TO PROTECT THE VICTIM, SHE

WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN

GIVING THEM A NONMONETARY FORM

OF RELIEF, WHERE THEY'RE

SUPERVISED VERY, VERY CAREFULLY.

>> BETH, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR

SPENDING SOME TIME AND HELPING

US UNDERSTAND THIS.

AS YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMPLICATED

ISSUE AND WE HAVE BEEN WRESTLING

WITH IT FOR A WHILE NOW.

HOPEFULLY WE'LL TALK AGAIN SOON

AS THIS MOVES ALONG THROUGH THE

LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH, TAKE

CARE.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME, THANK YOU.

>> TO LEARN ABOUT BAIL REFORM IN

NEW YORK AND HOW IT AFFECTS YOU,

VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT

METROFOCUS.ORG.