>> Sreenivasan: RIDE SHARING

JOBS AREN'T THE ONLY TEMPORARY

OPPORTUNITIES THAT COMPANIES ARE

WOOING EMPLOYEES INTO.

THE "GIG" ECONOMY IS BECOMING AN

INFLUENTIAL SECTOR OF THE

AMERICAN WORKFORCE.

I SPOKE RECENTLY WITH SARAH

KESSLER, AUTHOR OF THE BOOK

"GIGGED: THE END OF THE JOB AND

THE FUTURE OF WORK."

SO SARAH, THE RIDE SHARING

COMPANIES SEEM TO MAKE THEIR

MONEY MOSTLY ON THE FACT THAT

THESE ARE NOT THEIR FULL TIME

EMPLOYEES, THAT THEY'RE

INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS AND THAT

EXTENDS TO LOTS OF OTHER

COMPANIES IN THIS GIG ECONOMY AS

WELL.

IS THERE A LEVEL OF

RESPONSIBILITY THAT THESE

COMPANIES HAVE, ARE THEY DE-

FACTO EMPLOYERS?

>> THAT OF COURSE IS REALLY

DEBATABLE AND THERE'S A LOT OF

COURT CASES AROUND THIS TOPIC

THAT HAVE GONE IN DIFFERENT

WAYS.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT

TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE IT POSSIBLE

TO MANAGE INDEPENDENT

CONTRACTORS IN A WAY YOU

COULDN'T MANAGE WITHOUT CROSSING

CERTAIN BOUNDARIES BEFORE.

WITH KIND OF THESE ALGORITHMS

AND THESE CELL PHONES YOU CAN

SAY TO A DRIVER, YOU CAN DRIVE

WHENEVER YOU WANT REALLY, IT'S

UP TO YOU, BUT JUST SO YOU

KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THREE

TIMES AS MUCH ON FRIDAY BETWEEN

7:00 AND 10:00.

THEY CAN ALSO DO THINGS LIKE

HAVE PASSENGERS RATE THEM AND

USE THAT TO UNDERSTAND LIKE OH

THIS DRIVER IS NOT MEETING

EXPECTATIONS, WE'RE GOING TO

KICK THEM OFF THE PLATFORM.

SO INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT BE A

DECISION THAT A MANAGER MAKES

WHICH LIKELY SUGGESTS THAT THESE

ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES AND YOU ARE

MISCLASSIFYING THEM, IT IS A

DECISION THAT THE PHONE MAKES

AND THE ALGORITHMS MAKE.

SO I THINK THAT COMPANIES LIKE

UBER THEY DEMONSTRATE A

POTENTIAL FOR PEOPLE TO USE

WORKFORCES THAT AREN'T THEIR

DIRECT EMPLOYEES IN NEW WAYS

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET AWAY

WITH BEFORE.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT YOU'RE

DEMONSTRATING OR TALKING ABOUT,

A SYSTEM OF INCENTIVES AND

DISINCENTIVES, THAT SEEMS LIKE

A WAY FOR A COMPANY TO EXERT

CONTROL.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A LEGAL

TERM IN TERMS OF HOW THE

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR CONSIDERS AN

EMPLOYER AND WHETHER THEY HAVE

CONTROL OVER AN EMPLOYEE, BUT

CREATING THESE KINDS OF

STRUCTURES SEEMS TO INCENTIVIZE

THE PEOPLE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT

THE COMPANY WANTS.

>> YEAH, THAT WOULD BE THE

ARGUMENT THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY

EMPLOYEES.

PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S

NO CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHAT

MAKES AN EMPLOYEE OR WHAT MAKES

AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.

THE LAWS DEFINE THOSE

DIFFERENTLY, SO IT MIGHT BE

DIFFERENT WHEN YOU ARE THINKING

ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE

THAN IT IS WHEN YOU'RE THINKING

ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.

PART OF IT IS THAT IT'S SO

CONFUSING TO FIGURE OUT, IT

OPENS THINGS UP FOR A LOT OF

PEOPLE TO FIND LOOPHOLES.

>> Sreenivasan: YOU'VE TALKED TO

A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING IN THE

ECONOMY FOR YOUR BOOK.

SEVERAL OF THEM ARE LURED BY THE

IDEA THAT THEY'RE THEIR OWN

BOSS, THAT THEY CAN SET THEIR

OWN SCHEDULE, THINGS ARE VERY

FLEXIBLE, THEY CAN HAVE OTHER

PASSIONS AND INTERESTS, IT JUST

WORKS WITH THEIR LIFE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE ALSO

DISCOVERED THAT THERE ARE

SHORTCOMINGS HERE THAT THEY'RE

NOT ABLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET, THEY

HAVE TO DO MULTIPLE TYPES OF

TASKS OR DRIVING APPS AS WELL

TO JUST TRY TO GET EVERYTHING

TOGETHER THAT A 20 HOUR A WEEK

JOB OR 40 HOUR A WEEK JOB USED

TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER THEM.

>> YES, DEFINITELY.

THE WAY I KIND OF GOT INTO THE

GIG ECONOMY, I WENT AND SIGNED

UP FOR 30 OF THESE AND TRIED TO

MAKE THE MINIMUM WAGE AND WHAT

I FOUND WAS THAT EVEN WITH A

COLLEGE DEGREE, I STILL REALLY

COULDN'T MAKE MINIMUM WAGE.

SO I THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THIS MUST

BE LIKE REALLY MORE COMPLICATED

THAN THE STORY, THAT THESE

STARTUPS WERE TELLING.

SO FOR THE BOOK I FOLLOWED FIVE

DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO WERE

WORKING IN THIS WAY IN ONE WAY

OR ANOTHER.

WHAT I FOUND WAS THERE WAS A

WORLD OF THIS STORY ABOUT

THIS PITCH ABOUT THIS BEING

WONDERFUL AND INDEPENDENT AND

ALL YOU NEED, IT REALLY EXISTS

BUT IT EXISTS FOR PEOPLE THAT

HAVE SKILLS LIKE PROGRAMMING

COMPUTERS VERSUS SOME OF THE

PEOPLE I FOLLOWED WHO ARE TRYING

TO MAKE ENDS MEET ON THE LOW END

OF THINGS, LIKE ONE MAN WHO I

FOLLOWED IN ARKANSAS.

HIS JOB WAS TO ANSWER CUSTOMER

SERVICE PHONE CALLS FOR SEARS.

THE WAY HE GOT WORK IS THAT

THEY, EVERY WEEK, WOULD LET KIND

OF THESE SHIFTS GO ONTO A

PLATFORM AND HE WOULD GO ONTO

THE PLATFORM AND TRY TO GRAB AS

MANY SHIFTS AS HE COULD BUT IN

SOME TIMES OF THE YEAR, LIKE

WHEN THERE ARE A LOT OF BROKEN

AIR CONDITIONERS IN SUMMER

HEAT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF SHIFTS

TO GO AROUND.

BUT WHEN THERE WASN'T THAT

PROBLEM, HE HAD TROUBLE PIECING

TOGETHER ENOUGH WORK, WHICH IS

A HUGE PROBLEM IF YOU'RE LIVING

FROM PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.

SO YOU KIND OF LIVE WITH THIS

LEVEL OF INSECURITY THAT PEOPLE

WHO ARE WEALTHY AND WORK IN THE

GIG ECONOMY DON'T.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, SARAH

KESSLER, THE BOOK IS CALLED

"GIGGED: THE END OF THE JOB AND

THE FUTURE OF WORK," THANKS FOR

JOINING US.

>> YEAH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING

ME.