I’M JACK FORD.

AMID OUR ON GOING NATIONAL RECKONING OVER RACIAL INJUSTICE, THERE’S BEEN A PUSH TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THIS COUNTRY’S COMPLICATED HISTORY WHEN IT COMES TO RACE.

HISTORIANS HAVE ENGAGED IN THESE CONVERSATIONS FOR YEARS.

THEIR WORK HAS TAKEN ON RENEWED IMPORTANCE AFTER GEORGE FLOYD’S DEATH AT THE HANDS OF MINNEAPOLIS POLICE AND THE UNREST THAT HAS FOLLOWED.

ONE INITIATIVE CURRENTLY REEXAMINING OUR PAST IS THE HASHING THE SACRED TO THE MEMORY INITIATIVE.

ITS MISSION TO HELP FURTHER IDENTIFY MEN AND WOMEN WHO SURVIVED SLAVERY AND HAD THEIR PORT RATS TAKEN SO MANY YEARS AGO.

THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE POSTED ONLINE AND ACCOMPANIED BY A SIMPLE QUESTION, DO YOU KNOW THESE MEN AND WOMEN?

FOR MORE NOW ON THE EFFORTS TO ANSWER THAT VERY QUESTION AND THE IMPORTANCE OF UNDERSTANDING THIS OFTEN UNTOLD ASPECT OF OUR HISTORY, WE ARE JOINED BY THE PUBLIC HISTORIAN BEHIND THIS PROJECT, SANDRA ARNOLD IS THE CREATOR OF #SACREDTOTHEMEMORY.

WE’RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE HER JOINING US TONIGHT.

WELCOME TO YOU.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SO LET’S START WITH YOUR INTEREST IN THIS PROJECT.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU, WHAT DREW YOU TO IT?

WELL, IT WAS ACTUALLY THE DISCOVERY OF THE FACT THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS EXISTED AND THE DISCOVERY THAT, ALONG WITH THE WRITTEN ACCOUNTS OF THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT WERE INTERVIEWED BY THE WRITER’S PROGRAM OF THE WORKS PROGRESS ADMINISTRATION THERE WERE ACTUALLY PHOTOGRAPHS.

THAT WAS KIND OF THE BIRTH OF IT.

WHEN I STARTED KIND OF EXPLORING THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND EXPLORING THE WRITER’S PROGRAM, I LEARNED THAT THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS HAD ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT SOME OF THESE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WERE PHOTOGRAPHED, AND UNFORTUNATELY N THEY WEREN’T SUCCESSFUL.

THAT’S WHAT INSPIRED ME.

I WAS VERY TOUCHED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS’S EFFORTS TO ACTUALLY DO THIS.

I DON’T KNOW IF THE GENERAL PUBLIC ACTUALLY KNOWS THAT THAT WAS ATTEMPTED.

I THINK OBVIOUSLY MANY PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE WORK PROGRESS ADMINISTRATION AND ALL ITS VARIOUS PROJECTS INCLUDING THE WRITER’S PROGRAM.

BUT TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO ACTUALLY LOCATE THE INDIVIDUALS AFTER THE PROGRAM, I’M NOT SURE IF PEOPLE KNOW THAT.

I KNOW I DIDN’T KNOW IT.

THAT’S WHAT ACTUALLY GAVE — THAT’S WHAT INSPIRED ME AND GAVE BIRTH TO THE PROJECT — TO MY WORK.

TALKING ABOUT THOSE EFFORTS AGAIN, YOU MENTIONED THE WPA AND THE PROJECTS MANY, MANY DECADES AGO, WHY ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT NOW THERE MIGHT BE A BETTER PROSPECT FOR FINDING OUT THE IDENTITIES OF THESE INDIVIDUALS?

WELL, I’M VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN SLAVERY.

I THINK THAT THERE’S AN ASSUMPTION THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT.

I THINK THERE’S AN ASSUMPTION, PARTICULARLY — THAT CHILDREN ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SLAVERY, YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG STUDENTS.

BUT ALL OF IT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

I THINK PHOTOGRAPH IS A MEDIUM THAT 21st CENTURY PEOPLE CAN CONNECT TO, WILL BE VERY HELPFUL IN HELPING PEOPLE TO CONNECT TO IT.

I THINK THE INTEREST COMBINED WITH THE USE OF PHOTOGRAPHS, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS’S ATTEMPTS TO ACTUALLY BE COMPLETED.

THAT’S HOW I KIND OF SEE MY WORK.

I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD BE SURPRISED, MAYBE EVEN ASTONISHED TO KNOW THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ACTUALLY EXIST, THAT THESE PEOPLE HAD BEEN SLAVES DURING — PROBABLY MANY OF THEM FOR THE MAJORITY OF THEIR LIVES, AND HERE THEY’RE BEING PHOTOGRAPHED NOW IN FREEDOM.

WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND IN TERMS OF THAT LEVEL OF SURPRISE?

WELL, I’LL START WITH MY OWN SURPRISE.

I THINK THAT I’VE BEEN SURPRISED — I’VE READ SOME OF THE WRITTEN ACCOUNTS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCOMPANIED THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

I’VE LEARNED A LOT BY READING THOSE.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ THEM.

THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS HAS THOSE AND THEY’RE ONLINE.

PEOPLE CAN READ THEM IF THEY WANT TO.

I THINK WHAT I FOUND MOST SURPRISING ABOUT SLAVERY IN GENERAL, BUT PARTICULARLY WITH ANY WORK OF SLAVERY, WHETHER IT’S THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS OR THE WPA OR ANY PROJECT, EVEN THOUGH I’M OPTIMISTIC THAT PEOPLE WILL CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING SLAVERY, I STILL THINK UNFORTUNATELY THERE’S A BELIEF THAT’S A DISTANT HISTORY AND THAT IT’S SOMETHING THAT REALLY SHOULDN’T CONCERN US.

I THINK THAT’S BEEN PART OF MY SHOCK I THINK IN SOME OF IT.

YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE ARE SOME NAIR TIS, SOME INTERVIEWS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESERVED ALSO.

HAVE THEY BEEN HELPFUL TO YOU IN YOUR RESEARCH, DO THE INTERVIEWS GO INTO ANY GREAT DEPTH OF DETAIL?

THEY’VE BEEN SOMEWHAT HELPFUL.

MY FOCUS IS THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

OBVIOUSLY GETTING ANY TYPE OF STORY BEHIND A PHOTOGRAPH IS ALWAYS HELPFUL IN INTERPRETING THE PHOTOGRAPH.

I THINK THE NARRATIVES — TO BE HONEST, I HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE TO READ ALL THE NARRATIVES.

MY FOCUS AND MY PURPOSE AND WHAT I’M DOING, IT’S REALLY THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE THE FOCUS.

AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS — THE PHOTOGRAPHERS OF THE WPA — THE WPA, THE WORK PROGRESS ADMINISTRATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I JUST ADMIRED ABOUT MR. FDR IS THE FACT THAT THEY FELT THAT ARTISTS SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN EVERYONE’S CONCERN ABOUT EVERYONE EATING AND HAVING EMPLOYMENT, AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS ACTUALLY SPEAK BY THEMSELVES WITHOUT THE NARRATIVES.

ONCE AGAIN, I’M SPEAKING WITH SANDRA ARNOLD, THE PUBLIC HISTORIAN BEHIND #SAKE REDTOTHEMEMORY INITIATIVE.

WE’VE TALKED ABOUT THE PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE ACTUAL RECORDINGS, VOICE RECORDINGS BY SOME OF THESE PEOPLE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH AS AN HISTORIAN AND ALSO AS A WOMAN WHO WAS A DESCENDANT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ENSLAVED IN THIS COUNTRY, WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL REACTION WHEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO LISTEN TO THESE RECORDINGS, THE VOICES OF PEOPLE WHO HAD ACTUALLY LIVED THEIR LIVES AS SLAVES.

THEY ACTUALLY JUST SUPPORT THE FACT THAT SLAVERY IS NOT A DISTANT HISTORY.

THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT RECENTLY LIVED, AND TO HAVE A RECORDING OF THEM SPEAKING, A RECORDING OF THEM EXPRESSING THEMSELVES, THEY HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE, IT JUST SUPPORTS THE FACT THAT SLAVERY WAS NOT A DISTANT HISTORY.

WHEN — I KNOW THAT PART OF WHAT YOU’RE DOING, ALSO, AND THIS COMES BACK TO SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED A FEW MOMENTS AGO, ONE OF THE AREAS THAT YOU’VE BEEN FOCUSED ON IS ENGAGEMENT, CONVERSATIONS, IF YOU WILL, LEARNING CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUNG PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN.

HOW DO YOU FEEL THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE GOING TO BE HELPFUL IN TERMS OF MOVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS FORWARD?

I THINK THE PHOTOGRAPHS CAN BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL.

I THINK I’VE HAD MY OWN STRUGGLES WITH BELIEVING THAT CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN SLAVERY.

WHAT ACTUALLY BROKE THAT FOR ME WAS GOING TO THE UNITED NATIONS A FEW YEARS AGO.

I WAS INVITED TO SPEAK TO A GROUP OF STUDENTS — ACTUALLY A LARGE GROUP OF STUDENTS.

THEY HAVE SOMETHING EVERY YEAR TO REMEMBER THE TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE.

I WAS ASKED TO MODERATE A STUDENT CONFERENCE, AND THIS WAS A GLOBAL STUDENT CONFERENCE.

THEY HAD STUDENTS THAT WERE WEBCAST TO THE UN FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES WERE ACTUALLY COUNTRIES THAT HAD BEEN AFFECTED BY THE TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE.

AND THE STUDENTS WERE ALL MOSTLY MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, AND THEY WERE HUNGRY FOR THE KNOWLEDGE OF SLAVERY.

THEY WERE HUNGRY FOR THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SLAVE TRADE.

THEY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE SLAVE TRADE.

THEY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND SLA SLAVERY.

THAT TOUCHED ME WHEN I WAS THERE, BUT I THINK PHOTOGRAPHS — IF I LOOK BACK ON IT, IF I HAD PHOTOGRAPHS TO ACCOMPANY MY — ACCOMPANY ME WHILE I WAS MODERATING THE CONFERENCE, I’M SURE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE — IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL.

IT WOULDN’T SHOCK ME IF AFTER THE CONFERENCE — AFTER THE STUDENT CONFERENCE THAT THEY WENT AND PROBABLY FOUND THE PHOTOGRAPHS ANYWAY.

BUT I THINK PHOTOGRAPHS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO ANY HISTORIAN REGARDING ANY SUBJECT, BUT PARTICULARLY TO SLAVERY.

CERTAINLY, YOU SAY PERSONALIZES IT, HUMANIZES IT.

I KNOW YOU MENTIONED WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT, A PROJECT THAT STUDENTS WERE DOING, IN TERMS OF TRYING TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE NOTION OF SLAVERY AND IT HAD TO DO WITH THE NOTICE FOR ESCAPED SLAVES.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS SIMILAR.

IT DID NOT INVOLVE PHOTOGRAPHS.

I THINK ASKING YOUNG PEOPLE TO PUT THEMSELVES IN THE PLACE OF AN ANOTHER PERSON, IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS THEM TO RELATE.

IT HELPS THEM TO UNDERSTAND AND HUMANIZE ANOTHER PERSON, AND I THINK IT ACTUALLY HELPS THEM TO HUMANIZE SLAVERY.

AND I WAS VERY POUD OF THEM ACTUALLY.

I REALLY WAS.

THEY WERE — I DIDN’T EXPECT TO HAVE MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS COMING UP TO ME TREATING ME LIKE I’M A ROCK STAR OR A CELEBRITY BECAUSE I GAVE THIS INTERESTING TALK ON SLAVERY, BUT THAT’S HOW THEY TREATED — THEY DIDN’T TREAT ME LIKE I WAS THE SUBJECT.

THEY WERE APPRECIATIVE OF THE SUBJECT.

THEY WERE APPRECIATIVE THAT I HAD ACTUALLY CAME TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT.

AGAIN, I WAS VERY PROUD OF THEM, BUT IT ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES ME ABOUT — REGARDING THE FUTURE OF THE EDUCATION OF SLAVERY, AT LEAST IN OUR COUNTRY.

A LITTLE LESS THAN A MINUTE HERE.

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE OUR VIEWERS KNOW TO GO TO METROFOCUS.ORG AND THEY’LL BE LINKED WITH THE SITE AND HAVE A CHANCE TO LINK AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS THEMSELVES.

ANY SUCCESS SO FAR IN IDENTIFYING THESE FOLKS.

I HAVE TO CONTACT THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS.

THE WAY THE INITIATIVE IS CREATED, IF ANYONE KNOWS ANY OF THE MEN AND BIM WHOSE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE PART OF THE INITIATIVE, THEY’RE TO CONTACT THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS.

I JUST RECENTLY STARTED IT AND I HAVEN’T HAD A CHANCE TO CONTACT THEM TO SEE HOW IT’S GOING.

I’M POSITIVE IT’S GOING TO GO WELL AND IS GOING WELL.

ONCE AGAIN, SANDRA ARNOLD, IT IS #SACREDTOTHEMEMORYINITIATIVE.

GOOD LUCK WITH IT.

WE’LL CHECK BACK WITH YOU.

YOU TAKE CARE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BYE NOW.