>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO

METRO FOCUS.

I'M JACK FORD.

BACK IN SEPTEMBER WHEN ROCHESTER

POLICE FINALLY RELEASED THE BODY

CAM FOOTAGE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES

THAT LED TO THE DEATH OF DANIEL

CRUDE, PEOPLE WERE HORRIFIED BY

WHAT THEY SAW.

THE FOOTAGE REVEALED WHAT HAS

NOW BECOME AN ALL TOO FAMILIAR

AND TOO PAINFUL SIGHT.

POLICE USING EXCESSIVE FORCE

AGAINST AN UNARMED BLACK MAN

RESULTING IN HIS DEATH.

IN THIS DISTURBING VIDEO HE CAN

BE SEEN NAKED, HANDCUFFED,

HOODED, LYING ON THE GROUND.

AFTER THE FOOTAGE WAS RELEASED.

PROTESTS ERUPTED IN ROCHESTER.

TONIGHT AS PART OF OUR CHASING

THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY,

JUSTICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

IN AMERICA WE'RE PLEASED TO BE

JOINED BY LEAD PASTOR AND PRIEST

AT SPIRITIS CRISTIE CHURCH IN

ROCHESTER, THE REVEREND MIRA

FWROUN TALK ABOUT THE

CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE AFTERMATH.

PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH

US.

THANK YOU.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE, THANK YOU

FOR HAVING ME.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE

CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE AFTERMATH.

LET ME ASK ABOUT YOUR.

YOU LIVED THERE IN ROCHESTER.

YOU EXPERIENCED IT.

YOU TALKED TO PEOPLE.

WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THE

STATE OF ISSUES FOCUSING ON

RACIAL EQUALITY, ESPECIALLY WITH

REGARD TO POLICING IN THE

JUSTICE SYSTEM?

>> SO ROCHESTER'S ALWAYS HAD

KIND OF A DUALISTIC RELATIONSHIP

WITH RACIAL JUSTICE.

HOME OAF FREDERICK DOUGLAS AND

SUSAN B. ANTHONY AND ALSO A AREA

WHERE THERE WERE KKK MEETINGS IN

OUR SUBURBAN AREAS.

THERE'S BEEN POLICING ISSUES

WITHIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR FOR

A LONG TIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE UP

RISINGS OF '64 THAT CENTERED

POLICING ISSUES WITHIN THE

PLAQUE AND BROWN COMMUNICATE.

WE WERE JUST HITTING THE STREETS

AND COMING BACK FROM PROTESTING

AROUND WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE

FLOYD.

AND THEN DANIEL PRUDE HAPPENED.

SO WHEN DANIEL PRUDE WAS KILLED

IT REALLY EXACERBATED THE RACIAL

DIVIDE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE

BETWEEN THE POLICING SYSTEM AND

BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES IN

TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE

FELT SAFE ENOUGH WHEN POLICE

CAME INTO OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> ONCE THE PROTESTS GOT UNDER

WAY.

I MENTIONED THAT YOU AND OTHER

COMMUNITY LEADERS WERE WORKING

TO KEEP THEM PEACEFUL.

AND YOU WERE WORKING WITH

AUTHORITIES.

WORKING WITH THE PROTESTERS.

AND I WANT TO ASK ABOUT A COUPLE

OF THINGS THAT TOOK PLACE HERE.

ONE WAS, YOU ARE ENGAGING WITH

ELDERS.

TO BE PART OF THE PROTEST

MOVEMENT AND TO GUIDE IT AND

PROVIDE WISDOM TO IT.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT

NOTION OF ELDERS.

AND WHAT THEY CAN SKPROEFD WHAT

THEY DID PROVIDE IN TERMS OF THE

PROTESTS HERE.

>> AND THE ELDERS IS THE MODEL

FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

THE AS CULTURAL MODEL WHERE, YOU

KNOW, THERE WAS A TIME IN

HISTORY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE

BECAUSE OF THE DOMESTIC TERROR

AND JUST REALLY FEELING LIKE

THEY HAD TO ATTEND -- WE HAD TO

ATTEND TO OUR OWN NEEDS.

WE HAD ELD ERLS IN OUR

COMMUNITIES THAT KNEW HOW TO

WALK ALONGSIDE OF US, HELP US TO

DISCHARGE THE PAIN WE WERE

FEELING, HOLD THAT PAIN, AND

MADE SURE WE WERE SAFE AND KNEW

THAT WE WERE NOT ALONE.

SO THAT CULTURAL MODEL REALLY IS

TRANSFERABLE.

SO IN THE MOVEMENT, THERE WERE

TWO FRIENDS OF MINE.

SHIRLEY AND -- SHIRLEY --

DRAWING A BLANK ON HIS NAME.

>> THAT IS WHAT A CAMERA DOES TO

YOU.

HAPPENS TO ME ALL THE TIME.

YOU HAVE IT RIGHT THERE BUT YOU

ARE LOOKING IN THE CAMERA AND

WON'T COME OUT.

>> SHIRLEY AND JIM THOMPSON WHO

PROPOSED THE ELDER MODEL THE DAY

BEFORE THAT DAY IN SEPTEMBER.

BUT THERE WERE ONLY ABOUT FIVE

ELDERS THAT SHOWED UP.

SO I ACTUALLY PROPOSED WE

REINVIGORATE THAT MODEL, BRING

IT BACK FOR THAT NEXT PROTEST ON

THAT SUNDAY.

AND I PUT OUT A CALL FOR 50

ELDERS.

AND THEN A HUNDRED HELDERS

SHOWED UP FROM THE COMMUNITY AND

ANSWERED THAT CALL FROM THE

PRESS CONFERENCE.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO PUT ELDERS AT

THE FRONT OF THIS PROTEST LINE.

TO JUST COME ALONGSIDE OF THE

YOUNG PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY

THAT WAS HURTING, THAT WAS

TRAUMATIZED, RIGHT, THAT WAS

GRIEVING.

SO THE ELDERS KNEW HOW TO HOLD

THEIR PAIN, HOW TO COME

ALONGSIDE OF IT, HOW TO HELP

THEM DISCHARGE AND HOW TO STAND

IN SOLIDARITY WITH THEM.

AND IT IS A VERY EFFECTIVE

NONNEN VIOLENT MODEL THAT ALLOWS

THE COMMUNITY TO MONITOR ITSELF,

TO HOLD ITSELF, AND TO NOT HAVE

TO BE AGGRESSIVELY POLICED BY A

POLICE FORCE IN RIOT GEAR.

SO WE INTRODUCED THE ELDER MODEL

INTO THE PROTEST IN A LARGER

WAY.

AND IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.

>> STANDING IN SOLIDARITY WITH

THEM.

NOT JUST FIGURATIVELY BUT

LITERALLY STANDING ESSENTIALLY

BETWEEN THE POLICE AND THE

PEOPLE WHO WERE PROTESTING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT CHANGED -- I THINK IT CHANGED

THE TRAJECTORY, REALLY OF THE

POLICING RESPONSE TO PROTESTS.

BECAUSE ONCE YOU INTRODUCE THE

MODEL AND YOU SEE IT, YOU CAN'T

UNSEE IT.

PRIOR TO THAT --

>> IT WAS SUCH A VALUABLE IMAGE,

I THINK.

AND CERTAINLY FOR OTHERS MOVING

FORWARD.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU

HEARD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAY

LOOK, THIS WAS PRESENTED TO A

GRAND JURY, AND THE GRAND JURY

DECLINED TO RETURN ANY CHARGES

AGAINST THE POLICE OFFICERS?

>> YEAH.

I WAS HURT.

I WAS ANGRY.

AND -- AND I ALSO FELT LIKE "I'M

NOT SURPRISED."

RIGHT?

BECAUSE WE HAVE -- IN ROCHESTER

WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS 18, 19

BLUEPRINT OF POLICING THAT WAS

PATTERNED OFF OF SLAVE PATROLS.

SO THAT BLUEPRINT HAS PERMITTED

ALL KINDS OF HARM AND TRAUMA AND

AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE AGAINST

BLACK AND BROWN BODIES, WITHOUT

ANY ACCOUNTABILITY.

NOT ONLY IN ROCHESTER BUT ACROSS

THE NATION, AND ACROSS THE

COUNTRY.

AND SO I WAS HOPING -- WE'RE ALL

HOPING, HOLDING OUR BREATH

THINKING THAT MAYBE WE WOULD BE

DIFFERENT.

BUT WE WEREN'T DIFFERENT.

AND IN FACT, YOU KNOW, I FELT

LIKE THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S

OFFICE DIDN'T DO ENOUGH TO TRY

TO GET AT AN INDICTMENT ON THE

OFFICERS FOR DANIEL PRUDE'S

KILLING.

AND THAT WAS FRUSTRATING

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TIRED

OF THAT KIND OF ENDING.

EVERY TIME IT IS THAT KIND OF

ENDING.

>> AND THE AFTERMATH OF THE

DANIEL PRUDE KILLING, AND I KNOW

THERE HAVE BEEN CONVERSATIONS,

TAKING PLACE.

YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED,

COMMUNITY LEADER, GOVERNMENT

OFFICIALS.

TELL US ABOUT SOME OF THOSE

CONVERSATIONS AND WHERE THEY

SEEM TO BE GOING, IF ANYWHERE.

>> YEAH, SO WE'VE BEEN HAVING

CONVERSATIONS.

WE'VE BEEN CALLING ON OUR MAYOR

AND OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO WORK

WITH US TO CREATE A NEW POLICING

BLUEPRINT.

ONE THAT IS NOT FROM 1819 THAT

SAYS WHAT DO WE DO WITH BLACK

PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT IN THE WORLD,

HOW DO WE PATROL AND CONTAIN

THEM, BUT A NEW BLUEPRINT.

A 21st CENTURY BLUEPRINT THAT

ACTUALLY SAYS HOW TO WE GET TO

PUBLIC SAFETY AND THRIVING

COMMUNITIES?

IF WE ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS WE

GET THE RIGHT BLUEPRINT AND WE

CAN CREATE PUBLIC SAFETY FOR

EVERYBODY.

RIGHT NOW BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE

ARE NOT SAFE IN THEIR

COMMUNITIES UNDER THIS BLUEPRINT

OF POLICING AND THE WAY IN WHICH

IT ALLOWS CERTAIN POLICIES AND

PRACTICES AND LAWS THAT REALLY

BUBBLE WRAP AND PRESERVE

POLICING IN A WAY THAT THEY

DON'T EVER HAVE TO BE

ACCOUNTABLE TO THE HARM DONE IN

BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

AND SO WE ARE PUSHING THE

BLUEPRINT.

WHAT WE NEED THOUGH IS FOR OUR

STATE POLITICIANS TO STAND UP

AND TO PUT FORTH LEGISLATION, TO

ROLL BACK THINGS LIKE QUALIFIED

IMMUNITY, THINGS LIKE THE TAILOR

LAW.

THINGS LIKE THE TRIBUNAL LAW.

WE NEED THOSE THINGS CHANGED SO

THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE

ACCOUNTABILITY ACROSS THE BOARD.

BECAUSE IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHEN

THERE IS A WHITE VICTIM AND A

WHITE OFFICER, WE SEEM TO BE

ABLE TO GET INDICTMENTS AND

FIRINGS AND CHARGES AND POLICE

REMOVED.

WHEN IT IS A BLACK VICTIM WE

SEEM TO GET NOTHING EXCEPT A NO.

SO WE'RE HOPING TO REALLY CHANGE

THAT ON THE GROUND.

>> CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU NOT

JUST AS A COMMUNITY LEADER BUT

MAYBE MORE IMPORTANTLY AS A

FAITH LEADER, SAID TO YOUR

CONGREGATION.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY PERHAPS THE

YOUNGER MEMBERS OF YOUR

CONGREGATION.

WHAT DID YOU SAY TO THEM AFTER

THE INCIDENT WITH PRUDE AND

AFTER THE GRAND JURY DECIDED NOT

TO RUSH ARETURN ANY CHARGES.

>> I'VE BEEN TALK TO BE MY

CONGREGATION ABOUT RIGHT ALONG

ABOUT THE NEED TO P CHANGE

SYSTEMIC RACISM.

AND WE PREACH THIS INTO OUR

CONGREGATION.

WE HAVE A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY

TO END OPPRESSION MORE PEOPLE.

TO STAND WITH THE VULNERABLE,

RIGHT, TO WORK FOR JUSTICE AND

THAT IT IS A LABOR OF LOVE WHEN

WE DO THAT.

SO THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS

I'VE SAID TO MY CONGREGATION.

WE'VE CREATED A RACIAL JUSTICE

PAGE AND PUT A LOT OF EFFORT

INTO EDUCATING OUR CONGREGATION

AND I THINK WE'VE ALSO SAILED IT

IS GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US.

ALL HANDS ON DECK IF WE'RE GOING

CHANGE POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEN WE NEED EVERYBODY'S

PARTICIPATION AND BUY-IN INTO

CREATING A MORE JUST COMMUNITY.

>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.

GOT ABOUT TWO MINUTES HERE.

AS WE KNOW IN THE PAST SADLY

OFTEN TIMES WE NEED TRAGEDY TO

BE A SPRINGBOARD FOR PROGRESS.

WE'VE SEEN MARTYRDOM IN THE

PAST.

IN THE CASE OF EMMETT TILL, THE

YOUNG MAN FROM CHICAGO, MURDERED

IN MISSISSIPPI IN THE 1950S,

DESCRIBED OFTEN TIMES AS A

SUPERFICIAL LAMB OF THE CIVIL

RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

ARE YOU AT ALL OPTIMISTIC IN

TERMS OF HEALING AND CHANGE IN

ROCHESTER THAT MAYBE THIS MIGHT

BE THE MOMENT THAT WILL HELP

THAT PROCESS?

>> YEAH, SO I THINK, YOU KNOW,

THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THAT.

I ALWAYS -- I'M A HOPEFUL

PERSON.

SO I HOPE, RIGHT, THAT WE SEIZE

THIS MOMENT.

RIGHT?

AND THAT DANIEL PRUDE'S LIFE WAS

NOT TAKEN IN VAIN.

WE HAD A 9-YEAR-OLD CHILD WHO

WAS PEPPER SPRAYED AND

HANDCUFFED, WHO WAS A BLACK

CHILD.

I HOPE THAT HER, YOU KNOW, HER

EXPERIENCES WAS NOT IN VAIN.

SO I -- I -- I HAVE A LITTLE BIT

OF HOPE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE JURY IS STILL

OUT.

BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW

THAT THE POLITICAL LEADERS THAT

ARE IN OFFICE AT THE STATE LEVEL

ARE TAKING THE SAFETY OF BLACK

AND BROWN FOLKS IN OUR COMMUNITY

SERIOUS ENOUGH TO BE WILLING TO

BE THOUGHT LEADERS.

RIGHT?

TO BE WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE

THAT AN 1819 SLAVE PATROL

BLUEPRINT IS NOT HELPING ANY OF

US.

IT IS JUST NOT HE HELPFUL TO OUR

COMMUNITY AND WE NEED TO END

THIS.

WE NEED TO END THIS IF WE HAVE

ANY HOPE OF WORKING OUR WAY OUT

OF THIS MESS THAT WE'RE IN AND

THIS RACIAL DIVIDE THAT HAS

REALLY TORN APART OUR COMMUNITY.

>> I THINK THAT IS A VERY GOOD

POINT THAT YOU MAKE AND WE'VE

SEEN IT MADE BEFORE, THAT THIS

WILL HELP THE GOOD OFFICERS OUT

THERE.

AND PEOPLE HAVE SAID THE VAST

MAJORITY OF OFFICERS ARE GOOD.

THE PROBLEM IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH

THE ONES THAT AREN'T.

BUT AGAIN THESE APPROACHES AND

THESE CHANGES AS YOU SAID WILL

HELP EVERYBODY.

ACROSS THE BOARD.

WELL, REVEREND MIRA BROWN, THANK

YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND

SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US.

AND VERY THOUGHTFUL

CONVERSATION.

WE APPRECIATE IT AND WE'LL LOOK

FORWARD TO HOPEFULLY TALKING TO

YOU AGAIN SOMETIME REAL SOON.

YOU BE WELL.

>> YOU TOO.

TAKE CARE.

>> TAKE CARE NOW.

>> BYE-BYE.