“There’s a history of judgment when it comes to people in poverty” — UBI pilot programs look to change that

Many cities across the country are beginning to experiment with the idea of a guaranteed income: an amount of money meant to address the basic needs of a person living in the U.S., distributed on top of regular income. In Hudson, NY, a small city of just over 6,000, a guaranteed income pilot has been running since October 2020. NewsHour Weekend’s Zachary Green visited the city to learn more.

TRANSCRIPT

>> Sreenivasan: EARLIER THIS

MONTH, PRESIDENT BIDEN SIGNED A

$1.9 TRILLION AMERICAN RESCUE

ACT INTO LAW.

IT'S THE THIRD RELIEF PACKAGE

FOR AMERICANS SINCE THE

CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC TOOK HOLD.

THOSE CHECKS, WHICH BEGAN

ROLLING OUT LAST WEEK, WILL GO

DIRECTLY TO FAMILIES THAT

QUALIFY.

THE ADDED RELIEF IS ALSO PIQUING

INTEREST IN THE CONCEPT OF

UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.

EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, SOME

CITIES, LIKE STOCKTON,

CALIFORNIA, WERE ALREADY

EXPERIMENTING WITH A GUARANTEED

INCOME PROGRAM, AND SHOWING

SIGNS OF SUCCESS.

NOW, MORE CITIES ACROSS THE

COUNTRY ARE SIGNING ON.

NEWSHOUR WEEKEND'S ZACHARY GREEN

VISITED ONE IN NEW YORK TO LEARN

MORE.

THIS SEGMENT IS PART OF OUR

ONGOING SERIES "CHASING THE

DREAM: POVERTY AND OPPORTUNITY

IN AMERICA."

(TRAIN HORN )

>> Reporter: JUST TWO HOURS AWAY

FROM NEW YORK CITY, HUDSON, NEW

YORK-- A SMALL CITY OF ABOUT

6,000 PEOPLE-- IS A PRIME

WEEKEND GETAWAY SPOT, BUT IT'S

ALSO THE SITE OF ONE OF THE

COUNTRY'S FIRST CITYWIDE

EXPERIMENTS IN UNIVERSAL BASIC

INCOME, OR U.B.I.

LAST OCTOBER, 25 HUDSON

RESIDENTS BEGAN RECEIVING $500

A MONTH.

JOAN HUNT IS THE DIRECTOR OF

HUDSONUP, THE CITY'S GUARANTEED

INCOME PILOT.

IT RECEIVES ITS FUNDING FROM THE

SPARK OF HUDSON FOUNDATION AND

FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL

CANDIDATE ANDREW YANG'S

NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION, HUMANITY

FORWARD.

>> THE QUESTION IS ALWAYS, "SO,

WHY HUDSON?"

AND I THINK THERE WAS INTEREST

FROM BOTH PARTIES IN SORT OF THE

SIZE AND SCALE OF THE COMMUNITY

HERE IN HUDSON AND THE POTENTIAL

OF A PILOT LIKE THIS-- AND

DEFINITELY THE NEED.

>> Reporter: LIRA CAMPBEL IS A

RETIRED EDUCATOR WHO HAS LIVED

IN HUDSON SINCE 2002.

SHE SAYS THAT NEED BECAME CLEAR

TO HER NOT LONG AFTER MOVING

HERE, WHEN SHE WAS SPEAKING WITH

A FRIEND.

>> SHE SAID, "YEAH, I GOTTA

MOVE.

SOMEONE FROM THE CITY CAME AND

BOUGHT THE HOUSE.

THE NEW OWNERS RAISED THE RENT

AND I CAN'T AFFORD IT."

THAT WAS THE FIRST STORY OF

MANY.

>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO THE

REAL ESTATE WEBSITE ZILLOW, THE

AVERAGE HOME VALUE IN HUDSON

WENT UP BY NEARLY 60% IN THE

PAST TEN YEARS.

DURING THAT TIME, THE MEDIAN

HOUSEHOLD INCOME FOR HUDSON

RESIDENTS STAYED BELOW $40,000

A YEAR.

AND DESPITE A RELATIVELY LOW

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, ABOUT 23% OF

HUDSON'S POPULATION LIVES IN

POVERTY.

SINCE 1990, ROUGHLY 2,000 PEOPLE

HAVE MOVED AWAY.

HUDSON'S MAYOR, KAMAL JOHNSON,

SAYS THAT GENTRIFICATION IS

DRIVING THE EXODUS FROM THE

CITY.

>> WE SEE A LOT OF TRANSPLANTS

FROM NEW YORK CITY AND FROM

OTHER BIG CITIES THAT ARE NOW

COMING HERE.

AND THAT'S TOUGH ON THE PEOPLE

THAT GREW UP HERE.

YOU SEE A LOT LESS OF THE PEOPLE

YOU WENT TO SCHOOL WITH BECAUSE

THEY'RE FORCED TO MOVE TO THE

OUTSKIRTS OF THE CITY.

>> Reporter: EVEN IN THE MIDST

OF THE PANDEMIC AND THE

RESULTING FINANCIAL CRISIS,

HUDSON HOME VALUES ROSE BY 10%

SINCE LAST YEAR.

MEANWHILE, LONGTIME RESIDENTS

ARE FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO STAY

IN THE CITY WITHOUT GOVERNMENT

ASSISTANCE.

>> IT'S BECOME REALLY HARD FOR

FAMILIES TO FIND AFFORDABLE

SPACES OUTSIDE OF SUBSIDIZED

HOUSING.

>> Reporter: CLAIRE COUSIN GREW

UP IN HUDSON AND NOW SITS ON THE

CITY'S HOUSING AUTHORITY.

>> MOST PEOPLE THAT HAVE

CHILDREN ARE ONLY LOOKING TO GET

ON WAIT LISTS FOR SUBSIDIZED

HOUSING, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY

THING THAT IS SUSTAINABLE AND

AFFORDABLE FOR THEM.

I'VE KNOWN PEOPLE THAT HAVE

CONTACTED ME FOR HELP AS AN

ADVOCATE BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ON

THE WAIT LIST FOR THREE YEARS,

AND THEIR ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS TO

SQUEEZE THEIR FAMILIES INTO

SMALLER APARTMENTS FOR HIGHER

RENTS.

>> Reporter: THAT'S WHERE JOAN

HUNT SAYS THE HUDSONUP PILOT CAN

FILL IN THE GAP.

>> WE SEE U.B.I. AS A REAL

OPPORTUNITY FOR FOLKS TO STAY IN

THEIR COMMUNITY, TO BE ABLE TO

MAYBE TAKE ON A LITTLE BIT OF AN

EXTRA BURDEN WHEN IT COMES TO

RENT.

>> Reporter: THE CONCEPT IS

SIMPLE: FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS,

25 HUDSON RESIDENTS WILL RECEIVE

$500 A MONTH, DIRECT DEPOSITED

EITHER INTO AN ACCOUNT AT A

LOCAL CREDIT UNION OR ONTO A

PREPAID DEBIT CARD.

THE PARTICIPANTS CAN THEN SPEND

OR SAVE THE MONEY IN ANY WAY

THEY SEE FIT.

I CAN HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE BEING

LIKE, "YOU'RE GIVING PEOPLE $500

A MONTH AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO

DO ANYTHING FOR IT?

PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE SPENDING

THEIR MONEY ON THINGS THAT THEY

DON'T NEED."

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO

HAS THOSE OBJECTIONS?

>> THERE'S A HISTORY OF JUDGMENT

WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE IN

POVERTY, AND THIS MISCONCEPTION

THAT PEOPLE WITH LIMITED

RESOURCES DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE

DECISIONS THAT ARE BEST FOR THEM

AND THEIR FAMILIES.

WHEN, IN FACT, THEY'RE THE

EXPERTS IN THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE

AND THEY DO KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR

THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

>> Reporter: HUDSONUP PUT THE

WORD OUT ABOUT THE PROGRAM

THROUGH LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS AND

ADVOCATES-- INCLUDING CLAIRE

COUSIN, WHO ALSO HEADS UP THE

BOARD FOR THE GRASSROOTS

HUDSON/CATSKILL HOUSING

COALITION.

>> IT SEEMED REALLY FAR-FETCHED.

SO, I SPENT MOST OF MY TIME

EXPLAINING IT TO OTHER FOLKS,

TRYING TO GET THEM TO NOT BE SO

SKEPTICAL, JUST TO APPLY.

>> Reporter: HUDSONUP ALSO WON

THE SUPPORT OF MAYOR KAMAL

JOHNSON, WHO HELD A VIRTUAL TOWN

HALL WITH ANDREW YANG LAST

SEPTEMBER TO EXPLAIN THE CONCEPT

OF UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.

>> IF THIS TRIAL DEMONSTRATES

THAT PEOPLE LIVE BETTER AS A

RESULT OF SOMETHING AS STRAIGHT-

FORWARD AS GETTING $500 A MONTH

FOR FIVE YEARS, THERE IS NO

REASON THAT WE AS A COUNTRY

CANNOT MAKE THIS HAPPEN FOR

EVERYONE.

>> Reporter: EVENTUALLY, 488

ELIGIBLE HUDSON RESIDENTS

ENTERED THE LOTTERY FOR

HUDSONUP.

ONE OF THEM WAS LIRA CAMPBELL.

>> THEN I GET THIS

COMMUNICATION, "DON'T FORGET,

TONIGHT IS THE LAST NIGHT TO PUT

YOUR NAME IN FOR THE LOTTERY FOR

U.B.I."

AND I SAID, "I'M NOT DOING

THAT."

AND THEN MY MIND SAID, "WHY

NOT?"

>> Reporter: CAMPBELL FILLED OUT

AND SUBMITTED A SHORT

QUESTIONNAIRE.

FIVE DAYS LATER, SHE RECEIVED A

CALL TELLING HER THAT SHE HAD

BEEN CHOSEN AS ONE OF THE FIRST

25 HUDSONUP PARTICIPANTS.

>> WHEN IT HAPPENED, I WAS

TOTALLY THROWN OVER THE MOON.

I THINK I SCREAMED.

AND THEN I WENT AND I SAID TO MY

HUSBAND, "GUESS WHAT?

GUESS WHAT?

GUESS WHAT?"

BECAUSE I FELT LIKE I WAS GONNA

BURST.

>> Reporter: CAMPBELL SAYS THAT

EVEN THOUGH SHE AND HER HUSBAND

CAN AFFORD THE HOME THEY RENT IN

HUDSON, THE EXTRA $500 A MONTH

MADE A BIG IMPACT IN THEIR LIVES

DURING A TRYING TIME.

>> MY HUSBAND HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED

WITH CANCER.

SO, WHEN SOMEONE YOU LOVE AND

CARE ABOUT IS DIAGNOSED, A

FAMILY MEMBER, YOU WANT TO DO

EVERYTHING YOU CAN SO THEY CAN

BE HEALTHY AND SAFE AND GET

THROUGH IT.

AND THEN THE SECOND THING YOU

THINK ABOUT IS, "HOW AM I GOING

TO PAY FOR THIS?"

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AUTOMATICALLY

IT'S RADIATION, IT'S CHEMO, IT

MIGHT BE SURGERY.

SO, ALL THESE THINGS POP INTO

YOUR HEAD.

SO, WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT I WON,

I WAS LIKE, "GOD, YOU ARE SO

AMAZING, GOD, YOU ARE SO

AWESOME!"

LIKE, THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME.

>> Reporter: CAMPBELL SAYS THAT

RECEIVING A GUARANTEED INCOME

HAS ALSO IMPROVED HER PEACE OF

MIND AND HER OUTLOOK ON THE

FUTURE.

>> I CAN GO TO BED AT NIGHT AND

STOP THINKING, "HOW?

HOW AM I GONNA PAY FOR THIS?

HOW AM I GONNA GET THIS?

HOW I'M GONNA DO THIS?"

SO, IT TOOK AWAY THE HOW, AND IT

TOOK AWAY THE WORRIES.

IT JUST ALLOWS ME TO DO A LITTLE

BIT MORE AND TO SAVE A LOT MORE.

>> Reporter: IS THERE ANYTHING

IN PARTICULAR THAT YOU'RE SAVING

FOR?

>> I WANT TO BUY A HOUSE.

(LAUGHS )

THAT'S MY GOAL.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO.

>> Reporter: HUDSONUP DIRECTOR

JOAN HUNT SAYS SHE'S SEEN

SIMILAR EFFECTS ON OTHER PROGRAM

PARTICIPANTS.

>> WE'VE HAD PARTICIPANTS USE

SOME OF THEIR U.B.I. FUNDS TO

REPAIR THEIR CAR, FOR EXAMPLE.

SOME FOLKS ARE SAVING THE FUNDS.

SOME FOLKS WERE ABLE TO GIVE

THEIR KIDS A VERY NICE CHRISTMAS

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG

TIME.

I'VE BEEN WORKING IN THE

NONPROFIT SPACE SINCE 2006, AND

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PROGRAM LIKE

GUARANTEED INCOME THAT PROVIDES

FAMILIES WITH WHAT THEIR MOST

BASIC NEED IS, WHICH IS

ADDITIONAL CASH.

>> Reporter: MAYOR KAMAL JOHNSON

IS NOW A MEMBER OF MAYORS FOR A

GUARANTEED INCOME, A NATIONWIDE

NETWORK OF CITY LEADERS-- MANY

OF WHOM ARE ALSO PURSUING

GUARANTEED INCOME PROGRAMS.

JOHNSON BELIEVES THAT HUDSON HAS

A BIG ROLE TO PLAY IN LEARNING

MORE ABOUT THE EFFICACY OF

U.B.I.

>> WE'RE THE LITTLE CITY WITH

BIG CITY ISSUES.

SO, WHATEVER HAPPENS HERE IS

MOST LIKELY HAPPENING IN OTHER

CITIES, BUT WE CAN KIND OF SEE

THE SCOPE OF HOW IT AFFECTS, AND

THE RESEARCH OF HOW PEOPLE ARE

SPENDING THEIR MONEY, YOU KNOW,

HOW THEY'RE INTERACTING WITH THE

COMMUNITY. WE CAN SEE THAT ON A

CLOSER LENS THAN IN SOMEONE

WHO'S A BIG CITY WHERE, YOU

KNOW, THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE

THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL PROBABLY

LOSE THE PERSON THAT YOU'RE

TRYING TO RESEARCH THROUGH THE

PROCESS.

>> Reporter: LIRA CAMPBELL--

WHOSE HUSBAND IS NOW IN

REMISSION-- HOPES TO SEE MORE

PEOPLE RECEIVING THE SAME

BENEFITS THAT SHE IS, SOON.

>> EVERYONE COULD USE A EXTRA

$500 IN THEIR POCKET UNLESS

THEY'RE MILLIONAIRES.

BECAUSE LIFE HAPPENS.

AND A LOT OF THE TIME, WHEN LIFE

HAPPENS, A LOT OF THE TIME,

WE'RE NOT PREPARED 'CAUSE WE

DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES.

WE DON'T HAVE THE FINANCIAL

RESOURCES TO BE PREPARED.

SO, I WOULD SAY, BE HAPPY FOR

ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO RECEIVES

THE GUARANTEED INCOME, BECAUSE

IT'S SOMETHING THAT MAKES LIFE

EASIER AND BETTER FOR EVERYONE.

AND WE SHOULD WANT THAT FOR EACH

OTHER.

IN THIS WORLD, WE SHOULD WANT

THAT.