>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IN 1971, PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON

APPEARED BEFORE CONGRESS TO

DECLARE A NATIONAL WAR ON DRUGS.

WHAT FOLLOWED WAS A DECADES-LONG

ESCALATION OF POLICING AND ZERO

TOLERANCE JUDICIAL POLICIES THAT

CRITICS SAY DID LITTLE TO

ACTUALLY STOP DRUG ADDICTION.

NOW 50 YEARS LATER, MARIJUANA IS

BEING DECRIMINALIZED OR

LEGALIZED IN STATES ACROSS THE

COUNTRY, AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

ARE PROPOSING TAKING ACTION AT

THE FEDERAL LEVEL WITH SOME

GOING AS FAR AS RECOMMENDING

FEDERAL DECRIMINALIZATION OF ALL

DRUGS.

SO, HERE TO DISCUSS THE FIGHT

FOR DRUG POLICY REFORM HERE IN

NEW YORK AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY

IS CASSANDRA.

WELCOME TO THE "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING

ME.

>> SO, FIRST OFF, I JUST WANT TO

START OFF WITH, AS I MENTIONED

IN THE INTRO, IT'S BEEN 50 YEARS

SINCE WE -- THE COUNTRY, AT

LEAST, DECLARED A, QUOTE,

UNQUOTE, WAR ON DRUGS.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT WAS

THE ACTUAL IMPACT OF IT?

I DON'T WANT TO SAY, HOW SUCCESS

WAS IT, BUT WHAT WAS THE IMPACT

OF THAT POLICY DECISION?

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST

50 YEARS BASED ON THE DRACONIAN

POLICY CHOICE WAS RAPID MASS

INCARCERATION.

WE'VE SEEN THE DESTRUCTION OF

FAMILIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE'VE ALSO SEEN A DIVESTMENT

FROM OUR PUBLIC HEALTH

INFRASTRUCTURE, AND WE ALSO HAVE

SEEN WILD PROPAGANDA THAT HAS

ONLY MADE DRUG USE MORE

DANGEROUS.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS

THAT WE ALSO MISS IS THAT IN THE

LAST 50 YEARS, OUR DRUG SUPPLY

HAS BECOME EVEN MORE DANGEROUS

BECAUSE OF OUR DOUBLING DOWN ON

PROHIBITION, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO

ARE GOING WITH THE MARKETS AND

TRYING TO STRETCH DRUGS OUT AND

USING ADULTERANTS THAT MAKE

SUBSTANCES EVEN MORE DANGEROUS

FOR PEOPLE WHO USE THEM, AND SO

I THINK IT IS -- IT IS AN

ABSOLUTE FAILURE WHEN IT COMES

TO THE THINGS THEY SUPPOSEDLY

INTENDED FOR IT TO DO, BUT IT

WAS ACTUALLY VERY SUCCESSFUL, IF

YOU THINK ABOUT THE POLITICAL

MOTIVATION BEHIND WHY THEY MADE

THIS POLICY CHOICE.

>> WELL, SPEAKING OF THIS POLICY

CHOICE, ONE OF THE HEAVY

CRITICISMS AGAINST IT HAS BEEN

THAT IT VERY SPECIFICALLY

TARGETED PEOPLE OF COLOR.

NOW, FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT STILL

NOT FULLY GRASP OR BE, MAYBE, AS

SENSITIVE TO THAT, CAN YOU JUST

SORT OF EXPLAIN WHY PEOPLE HAVE

REACHED THAT CONCLUSION?

>> SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE

KNOW ABOUT THE POLICY CHOICE

AROUND DRUG PROHIBITION IS THAT

WHEN PRESIDENT NIXON DECLARED

IT, THERE WERE UNDERLYING

MOTIVATIONS AS TO WHO HE WANTED

THESE POLICIES TO TARGET.

SO AT THE TIME THAT THE DRUG WAR

WAS ANNOUNCED, HE WAS NAVIGATING

AN ANTI-WAR LEFT, FOLKS THAT

WERE REALLY DISSENTING AGAINST

THE VIETNAM WAR, AND THEN WE HAD

A RISING BLACK POLITICAL CLASS

THAT WAS MOVING AND PUSHING

AGAINST THE STATUS QUO.

AND WHAT JOHN EHRLICMAN SAID WAS

THAT THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT

ILLEGAL TO BE AGAINST THE WAR OR

TO BE BLACK, BUT THEY COULD MAKE

IT ILLEGAL TO USE DRUGS AND TO

USE DRUGS AS AN INSTRUMENT TO

CRIMINALIZE THOSE GROUPS OF

PEOPLE AND HAVE THE MEDIA AND

POLICIES SEEM, ON ITS FACE, RACE

NEUTRAL, BUT ACTUALLY HAVE

TARGETING FORCES AND SEEING THE

WAY THEY DIVESTED IN CERTAIN

COMMUNITIES AND INVESTED IN LAW

ENFORCEMENT AND CRIMINALIZATION.

THE REASON WHY THEY KNEW HOW TO

DO THIS WAS BECAUSE THAT WAS

ALREADY A HUNDRED-YEAR PLAYBOOK

THAT THE UNITED STATES HAD

ALREADY PUT FORWARD, SO THE

FIRST DRUG LAWS IN THE U.S.

TARGETED CHINESE MIGRANTS AFTER

THEY CAME OVER TO BUILD THE

RAILROAD IN CALIFORNIA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT LAWS LIKE OUR

MARIJUANA LAWS, THE REASON WHY

WE CALL IT MARIJUANA IN THE

UNITED STATES AND NOT CANNABIS

LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD IS

BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO ASSOCIATE

THAT DRUG WITH MEXICANS, AND

MARIJUANA IS THE SPANISH WORD.

SO, OUR DRUG LAWS HAVE ALWAYS

XENOPHOBIC AND RACIST IN NATURE

AND THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION

USED THAT HUNDRED-YEAR PLAYBOOK

TO REALLY REINFORCE THE

INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE DRUG WAR

WE SEE TODAY.

SO, IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT

COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE BEING

IMPACTED.

IT WAS ACTUALLY BY DESIGN.

AND SO OFTENTIMES, PEOPLE WILL

ASK, WAS THE DRUG WAR SUCCESSFUL

OR DID IT FAIL?

AND SOME PEOPLE SAY IT FAILED,

AND IT FAILED BECAUSE IT DIDN'T

GET DRUGS OFF THE STREET.

IT DIDN'T MAKE LESS PEOPLE USE

DRUGS.

WE AREN'T MORE IN A HEALTH

INFRASTRUCTURE.

IT HASN'T DETERRED PEOPLE FROM

USING DRUGS, BUT IT WAS

SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE IT DID

DISRUPT THE COMMUNITIES THAT IT

WAS INTENDED TO DISRUPT.

>> AND I DO WANT TO GET INTO A

LITTLE BIT OF THE CHANGE, LET'S

SAY, IN NOT ONLY POLICY BUT

ATTITUDE AROUND MARIJUANA, BUT

IT SEEMS AS IF OVERALL THERE'S

BEEN A PUBLIC SHIFT IN THE WAY

PEOPLE VIEW DRUGS AND DRUG USE

AND DRUG ABUSE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING THE

DRIVING SOURCE FOR THAT SHIFT,

JUST IN SORT OF LIKE THE WAY THE

PUBLIC VIEWS THESE ISSUES?

>> I THINK THE DRUG WAR WAS A

LIE, AND I THINK THAT WHILE LIES

CAN BE VERY SUCCESSFUL, THEY

DON'T ALWAYS LAST, AND PEOPLE

ARE EXPERIENCING -- ARE HAVING

THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES WITH DRUGS

AND REALIZING THAT THEY ARE NOT

NAVIGATING RAVAGES OF ADDICTION.

MOST PEOPLE THAT USE DRUGS DON'T

END UP HAVING A CHAOTIC OR

PROBLEMATIC RELATIONSHIP WITH

IT.

AND THEN FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DO

STRUGGLE WITH ADDICTION, THEY

ARE SEEING THAT CRIMINALIZATION

ACTUALLY ISN'T HELPING THEM GET

TO A PLACE OF HEALTH, RIGHT?

THEY ARE SEEING -- SO, NOT ONLY

ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE NAVIGATING

ADDICTION STRUGGLING WITH

GETTING THE RESOURCES THAT THEY

NEED BECAUSE CRIMINALIZATION IS

THE OVERWHELMING INTERVENTION,

BUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE LOVED ONES

OR FAMILY MEMBERS THAT NAVIGATE

ADDICTION ARE SEEING HOW FUTILE

THE INVESTMENT IN

CRIMINALIZATION IS, AND FOLKS

ARE RECOGNIZING, LIKE, YOU

PROMISED US, IF WE DID THIS DRUG

WAR, OUR PEOPLE WOULD BE SAFE.

OUR PEOPLE WOULD BE HEALTHY.

AND NOW, PEOPLE ARE RECOGNIZING

THAT WE DID -- WE GOT THIS DRUG

WAR, AND OUR PEOPLE ARE NOT

SAFE, AND THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY,

AND WE ARE ACTUALLY HARMING

PEOPLE.

SO, PEOPLE ARE CALLING INTO

QUESTION, LIKE, IF I GET TO

CHOOSE, I'M GOING TO CHOOSE

HEALTH, AND HEALTH DOES NOT

HAPPEN THROUGH CRIMINALIZATION.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO, THEN, WITH

THAT, I NOW WANT TO, OF COURSE,

TURN TO THE ISSUE AROUND THE

CHANGING OF LAWS REGARDING

CANNABIS OR MARIJUANA, AS YOU

POINTED OUT, WHICH IS SPECIFIC

TO THIS COUNTRY.

FIRST, SPECIFICALLY, NEW YORK

RECENTLY PASSED THE MARIJUANA

REGULATION TAXATION ACT WHICH

LEGALIZES ADULT USE OF CANNABIS.

BUT THE LAW DOES MORE THAN THAT,

AND I WAS WONDERING, WHAT WERE

THE THINGS THAT YOU THOUGHT

STOOD OUT TO YOU THE MOST THAT

WERE PERHAPS BENEFITS AND MAYBE

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THE

LAW?

>> SO, I WOULD SAY, WHAT WE HAVE

BEEN WORKING ON THIS CAMPAIGN

FOR OVER A DECADE, BUILDING THE

INFRASTRUCTURE TO REALLY PUSH

BACK AGAINST MARIJUANA LAWS IN

NEW YORK STATE.

AND THE THINGS THAT WE RECOGNIZE

WAS THAT WE COULDN'T LEGALIZE

CANNABIS IN A VACUUM.

BECAUSE THE CRIMINALIZATION OF

CANNABIS WAS NOT HAPPENING IN A

VACUUM.

IT WAS EXPANSIVE.

IT WAS COMPREHENSIVE.

AND IT WAS DESTRUCTIVE.

AND SO WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT

THE REGULATION OF THE PLANT, WE

RECOGNIZED THAT IN ORDER FOR

THAT TO ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING

TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN

MOST DEVASTATED, WE ACTUALLY

HAVE TO DECRIMINALIZE PEOPLE, SO

WE HAVE TO REMOVE ALL THE WAYS

THAT CRIMINALIZATION WAS

ENTERING INTO PEOPLE'S LIVES

BECAUSE OF CANNABIS.

SO, IT AUTOMATICALLY EXPUNGED

RECORDS.

IT WORKED ON IMMEDIATE

RE-SENTENCING FOR PEOPLE.

IT REMOVED THE DRUG WAR IMPACTS

AROUND MARIJUANA PROHIBITION,

AROUND HOUSING, IMMIGRATION, AND

CHILD WELFARE.

IT REALLY WORKED TO GO THROUGH

ALL THE HARMS ASSOCIATED WITH

CANNABIS PROHIBITION AND REMOVE

THOSE THINGS.

AND THEN, THE THING THAT WAS

SUPER IMPORTANT FOR US WAS THAT

THE MONIES, THE TAX REVENUE THAT

WAS COMING FROM CANNABIS

PROHIBITION WOULD BE REINVESTED

IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

THIS WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR

US, BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE FOR THE

LAST 20 YEARS, NEW YORK HAS

INVESTED SO MUCH IN THE

CRIMINALIZATION OF OUR

COMMUNITIES USING CANNABIS, AND

NOW, WE WERE IN THIS MOMENT

WHERE PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE

MAKING A TON OF MONEY AND THE

STATE WAS GOING TO BE MAKING A

TON OF MONEY AND WE WERE LIKE,

BUT NOT AT OUR EXPENSE, RIGHT?

SO, WE PUSHED FOR THERE TO BE A

PERCENTAGE OF THE MONEY TO GO TO

COMMUNITIES INDEFINITELY, SO

WHEN THE BILL PASSED, 40% OF ALL

TAX REVENUE WILL GO TO

COMMUNITIES MOST IMPACTED BY

MARIJUANA PROHIBITION, THE

ROCKEFELLER DRUG LAW, STOP AND

FRISK, AND WE KNOW THOSE

COMMUNITIES ARE PREDOMINANTLY

COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

THE OTHER 40% WILL BE GOING TO

EDUCATION, PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE,

70% OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE

GETTING ARRESTED FOR CANNABIS

WERE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 16 AND

21, RIGHT?

AND SO, WE WERE VERY CLEAR --

SORRY, 52%.

WE WERE VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT WE

NEEDED TO FOCUS ON YOUNG PEOPLE,

AND WE WERE DOING THAT THROUGH

EDUCATION.

AND THEN THE OTHER 20% WENT TO

DRUG TREATMENT AND PUBLIC

EDUCATION AROUND IT.

SO, MAKING SURE THAT THIS

CANNABIS MONEY WAS NOT A WAY FOR

THE GOVERNMENT TO FILL ITS

COFFERS IN THE SAME WAY THEY

FILLED THEIR COFFERS WITH

CRIMINALIZING BLACK AND LATINO

FOLKS.

AND THEN LASTLY, THE THING THAT

WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO US WAS

THAT THE INDUSTRY HAD TO MAKE

SENSE FOR THE COMMUNITIES MOST

IMPACTED.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD A LEGACY

MARKET IN THIS COUNTRY.

NEW YORK HAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST

LEGACY MARKETS IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S ESTIMATED AT $3.2 BILLION,

AND WE WERE VERY CLEAR, LIKE,

THEY KNEW HOW TO FIND US TO

ARREST US, AND SO THEY NEED TO

BE ABLE TO FIND US TO MAKE SURE

WE MAKE MONEY.

AND SO, HOW DO WE CREATE AN

INDUSTRY STRUCTURE THAT ALLOWS

THE MOST PEOPLE FROM THE

COMMUNITY TO BE A PART OF IT?

>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO CRITICS,

TO THE COMMON PUSHBACK AGAINST

THIS IS THAT BY LEGALIZING, YOU

ARE ESSENTIALLY CLEARING THE

PATH FOR HIGHER RATES OF DRUG

ADDICTION, OVERDOSES,

PARTICULARLY AMONGST YOUNGER

PEOPLE.

>> YEAH.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT I SAY IS,

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

ALL THE RESEARCH THAT HAS BEEN

SHOWN SO FAR ABOUT CANNABIS

LEGALIZATION HAS SHOWN THAT

THESE THINGS ARE NOT GOING UP.

YOUNG PEOPLE AREN'T USING AT

HIGH RATES.

CRIME IS NOT GOING UP.

THE SKY HAS NOT FALLEN, AND IN

FACT, WE ARE CREATING NEW

REVENUE SOURCES FOR GOVERNMENT

TO TAKE CARE OF COMMUNITIES, AND

ALSO, WE ARE OPENING UP THE

SPACE FOR US TO HAVE MORE HONEST

CONVERSATION ABOUT DRUGS IN

PEOPLE'S EVERYDAY LIVES.

WHAT I OFTEN SAY IS PEOPLE WHO

SELL DRUGS DON'T CHECK I.D.s,

BUT STORES DO, AND THERE IS A

VERY IMPORTANT NEED FOR US TO

RECOGNIZE THAT DRUG PROHIBITION

IS NOT CONTROL.

IT IS THE ABSENCE OF CONTROL.

REGULATION, US ACTUALLY FIGURING

OUT WHAT ARE THE SUBSTANCES THAT

PEOPLE ARE CONSUMING, FIGURING

OUT WHO IS GETTING ACCESS TO

THEM, PRODUCING THEM IN A WAY

THAT THESE SUBSTANCES ARE NOT

BEING ADULTERATED, MAKE EVERYONE

SAFE.

AND SO, THE CONVERSATION AROUND

REGULATION IS ONE ABOUT HOW DO

WE ACTUALLY GET TO A PLACE WHERE

WE HAVE MORE CONTROL ABOUT THE

THINGS THAT PEOPLE CONSUME.

>> OF COURSE, WE ARE COMING UP

ON THE END OF OUR TIME TOGETHER,

ALTHOUGH THIS HAS BEEN SUCH A

FASCINATING CONVERSATION, BUT

LASTLY, I DO JUST WANT TO ASK,

DO YOU THINK, THEN, BASED ON THE

POLICY THAT NEW YORK HAS

ENACTED, THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO

SCALE UP ON A NATIONAL LEVEL

WITH ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT?

>> I THINK THE COUNTRY IS MORE

THAN READY FOR FEDERAL MARIJUANA

PROHIBITION.

I THINK FOLKS ARE DEPENDING ON

FOLKS IN CONGRESS, AND I THINK

YOU'RE SEEING PLACES LIKE THE

SOUTH REALLY MOVE TOWARD

LEGALIZING CANNABIS, EITHER FOR

MEDICAL OR RECREATIONAL USE.

IT'S BEYOND TIME.

I THINK WE'RE BEHIND WHERE THE

PUBLIC IS.

AND I'M REALLY EXCITED TO SEE

THE REST OF THE COUNTRY

LEGALIZE.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, LISTEN,

IMPACT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

JOINING US, AND DEFINITELY FOR

TALKING THROUGH THIS ISSUE.

THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA AS

I'M SURE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A

LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONSIDERING

RIGHT NOW.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH,

KASSANDRA FREDERIQUE, EXECUTIVE

DIRECTOR OF THE DRUG POLICY

ALLIANCE.

IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON

"METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.