>>> TONIGHT, FACING SUICIDE, WE

GO INSIDE THE NEW PBS INITIATIVE

DESTIGMATIZING THE PUBLIC HEALTH

CRISIS THAT'S KILLING 130

AMERICANS EVERY DAY.

THE QUESTION WE SHOULD ALL BE

ASKING TO HELP SAVE LIVES.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪

>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH

RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD,

AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND,

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --

>>> LONELY.

REALLY LONELY.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS

DEPRESSED.

I SHOULD HAVE SAW THE SIGNS,

BECAUSE HE WAS ALWAYS IN HIS

ROOM AND JUST KEPT TO HIMSELF,

BUT, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T THINK

ANYTHING OF IT.

>> I DID HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE

THERE FOR ME, BUT I WAS JUST

PUSHING THEM AWAY.

>> THE CDC IS APPROACHING

SUICIDE AS A PUBLIC HEALTH

CRISIS.

>> WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT WOULD

HAVE HAPPENED IF I HAD NOT

GOTTEN HELP, NO WAY WOULD I BE

ALIVE TODAY.

>> EVENTUALLY ASK HER, WAS SHE

PLANNING TO HURT HERSELF?

AND SHE SAID YES.

>> BUT THEN SHE WENT INTO ACTION

LIKE A SUPERHERO.

>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

THAT CLIP YOU JUST SAW IS FROM

"FACING SUICIDE,".

A NEW PBS DOCUMENTARY AND IMPACT

CAMPAIGN PUSHING TO DESTIGMATIZE

AN ISSUE THAT'S OFTEN HARD THE

TALK ABOUT.

SUICIDE IS THE LEADING CAUSE OF

DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES,

IMPACTING VIRTUALLY EVERY

DEMOGRAPHIC, WITH 130 AMERICANS

DYING EVERY DAY.

BUT EXPERTS HAVE RECENTLY

LEARNED A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS

ISSUE, AND TONIGHT WE'RE

EXPLORING THE STEPS WE CAN ALL

TAKE TO HELP THOSE IN CRISIS AND

THE QUESTION WE SHOULD ALL BE

ASKING.

AS PART OF THIS INITIATIVE, THE

WNET GROUP IS ALSO HIGHLIGHTING

SUICIDE PREVENTION AMONG

CURRENTLY AND FORMERLY

INCARCERATED PEOPLE IN THE SHORT

FILM "LEARNING TO LIVE, THE

RESILIENT PATH AFTER PRISON".

FOR MUCH MORE ON THIS CRITICAL

PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE, LET'S

WELCOME TONIGHT'S PANEL, WHO

JOIN US AS PART OF OUR CHASING

THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY,

JUSTICE, AND ECONOMIC

OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA.

FIRST, WE HAVE AWARD WINNING

FILMMAKER JAMES BARRETT.

JAMES IS PRODUCER OF THE PBS

DOCUMENTARY "FACING SUICIDE".

JAMES, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> GOOD TO BE HERE, JENNA.

>> NEXT I'D LIKE TO WELCOME

STEVEN THOMAS, OR SMOKE AS HE'S

KNOWN.

STEVEN IS FEATURE IN THE

"LEARNING TO LIVE," DISCUSSING

HIS LIVED SUICIDE EXPERIENCE

WHILE INCARCERATED.

HE'S NOW THE COMMUNITY

COORDINATOR FOR DRUM, WHICH

WORKS TO IMPROVE BROOKLYN FOR

ALL NEW YORKERS.

STEVEN, WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS.."

>> WELCOME, AND THANK YOU FOR

HAVING ME.

>> AND FINALLY I'D LIKE TO ROUND

OUT OUR PANEL WITH A LICENSED

PSYCHOTHEIR MISS.

DR. RIOS IS A PROFESSOR AT SETON

HALL UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

FIRST I WANT TO START RIGHT IN

WITH THE FILM, THE DOCUMENTARY

"FACING SUICIDE".

JAMES, WHAT I FOUND SO

FASCINATING ABOUT THE FILM IS

THAT WHILE IT EXPLORES THIS

CRISIS THROUGH THE STORIES OF

AMERICANS WITH LIVED EXPERIENCE

OR WHO HAVE DIED BY SUICIDE,

WHAT ARE THE STORIES THAT YOU

FOCUS IN ON IS A YOUNG

BASKETBALL STANDOUT WHO

SEEMINGLY HAS EVERYTHING.

AND WHAT I FOUND SO POIGNANT

ABOUT THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE'S

PERHAPS MISUNDERSTANDING AROUND

THE SUBJECT IS WHEN SOMEONE

SEEMS TO HAVE EVERYTHING, THE

RESPONSE IS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO

BE SAD ABOUT?

SO WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO

INCLUDE THAT STORY?

>> WELL, THE STORY OF GREG

WHITESELL IS IMPORTANT IN A

NUMBER OF WAYS.

OUR MAIN POINT -- PURPOSE FOR

MAKING THIS FILM WAS REALLY TO

TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO PEOPLE,

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SIGNS OF

SUICIDE AROUND YOU?

THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU, THE

COLLEAGUES, YOUR LOVED ONES?

WHAT ARE THE SIGNS AND WHAT DO

YOU DO?

WE WANTED EACH CHARACTER TO

BRING A LOT OF TAKEAWAYS WITH

THEIR STORIES.

IT WAS IMPORTANT BECAUSE GREG IS

A YOUNG MAN, AND RIGHT NOW

SUICIDE'S THE SECOND BIGGEST

KILLER OF YOUNG PEOPLE BETWEEN

THE AGES OF 10 AND 24.

THAT'S THE SECOND BIGGEST

KILLER.

SO HE WAS A NATIVE AMERICAN.

NATIVE AMERICANS HAVE UP TO TEN

TIMES THE SUICIDE RATE OF WHAT'S

AVERAGE IN AMERICA.

HE ALMOST KILLED HIMSELF IN THE

MIDDLE OF A CLUSTER OF SUICIDES,

AND THAT'S A GROUP OF SUICIDES

THAT SPREAD THROUGH WHAT'S

CALLED SUICIDE CONTAGION.

WE WERE ABLE TO TEACH A LOT OF

THINGS, SHOW A LOT OF THINGS AND

DELIVER A LOT OF TAKEAWAYS WITH

GREG'S STORY.

PLUS HE'S JUST A FABULOUS YOUNG

MAN, AND WE WERE THRILLED TO BE

ABLE TO TELL HIS STORY.

>> DR. RIOS, I WANT TO TURN TO

YOU AND JUST GET YOUR EXPERT

OPINION, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S

SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO TOUCH ON

IS HOW LITTLE UNDERSTANDING

AMERICANS SEEM TO HAVE ABOUT

THIS SUBJECT, EVEN IF THEY HAVE

FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT

FIRST WE -- WHENEVER WE TALK

ABOUT SUICIDALITY, WE HAVE TO

TALK ABOUT HOW WE VIEW, EMBRACE,

AND ALSO WORK THROUGH MENTAL

HEALTH CHALLENGES.

SUICIDALITY, AS WE KNOW, SO.

SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS CAN BEGIN

FROM FEELING ISOLATED,

WORTHLESSNESS, START SEEING

SIGNS OF WANTING -- TALKING

ABOUT DIEING AND BEING A BURDEN

ON OTHERS.

WHEN THE COMMUNITY DOES NOT TALK

ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH, THEN IT'S A

FURTHER STEP ABOUT DISCUSSING

OPENLY SUICIDALITY, AND I THINK

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT

AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY,

THAT IT IS A HIGH RISK FACTOR OF

DEATH FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND THAT

SUICIDAL IDEATIONS ARE HIGHEST

AMONGST FOLKS, YOUNG PEOPLE

BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 TO 25.

SO AS WE THINK ABOUT AND

CONCEPTUALIZE SUICIDALITY IN OUR

COMMUNITY, WE ALSO HAVE TO BE

MINDFUL OF THE IMPACT OF MENTAL

HEALTH AS WE LOOK AT PREVENTIVE

MEASURES AND ENSURE THAT FOLKS

DON'T FEEL ISOLATED, WORTHLESS,

CARRYING THESE THOUGHTS OF SHAME

AND GUILT, AND THEN IT BEGINS TO

MOVE INTO THOUGHTS OF, I DON'T

NEED TO BE HERE.

I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE.

BECAUSE I'M NOT CONNECTED.

>> WELL, AND I DO WANT TO MOVE

ON IN A MOMENT TO MR. THOMAS,

BUT DOCTOR RIOS, I JUST WANT TO

GO A LITTLE BIT DEEPER.

YOU MENTIONED THAT SUICIDE

IDEATION IS HIGHEST AMONGST A

CERTAIN AGE GROUP.

IS THERE PERHAPS A BRAIN

DEVELOPMENT, A SOCIAL

DEVELOPMENT, A CHEMICAL -- IS

THERE A REASON FOR THAT AGE

GROUP TO BE THE MOST VULNERABLE?

>> LET'S BEGIN TO CONCEPTUALIZE

DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES.

NOW AS WE'RE ALL BEING EXPOSED

TO NOT JUST SOCIAL MEDIA BUT

SHIFTED INTO HOW WE VIEW

COMMUNITY, HOW WE VIEW

CONNECTEDNESS, ENGAGEMENT IN

FEELING THE SENSE OF

BELONGING -- ABRAHAM --

DISCUSSED THE FEELING OF NEED

AND BELONGING IS RIGHT AFTER THE

FEELING OF SECURITY AND BASIC

HUMAN NEEDS IS TO FEEL A

BELONGINGNESS.

18 TO 25 YOU'RE BEGINNING TO --

IN OUR AMERICAN SOCIETY.

YOU'RE THINKING OF WHO YOU ARE

AS AN ADULT, WHERE YOU BELONG,

WHERE YOU DO NOT BELONG.

AND ALSO THE BRAIN IS STILL VERY

MUCH GROWING AT THAT STAGE.

BUT REALLY I WANT TO FOCUS ON

HOW WE AS A COMMUNITY VIEW

OURSELVES AND OUR YOUNG PEOPLE

BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 TO 25

WHEN THEY'RE REALLY BEGINNING TO

ESTABLISH WHO I AM IN THIS

SPACE, WHO I AM IN RELATION TO

MY COMMUNITY, MY FAMILY, AND

WHAT IS MY PURPOSE.

AGES OF 18 TO 25, IF I'VE

EXPERIENCED TRAUMA, IF I'VE

EXPERIENCED INTERGENERATIONAL

TRAUMA, COMMUNITY VIOLENCE, IF

I'VE EXPERIENCED A SENSE OF

DISCONNECTED AMONGST MYSELF AND

WHO I AM ALREADY BEFORE THAT, BY

THE TIME I'M STARTING TO THINK

ABOUT WHO I WILL BECOME AND I

DON'T HAVE THAT FUTURE, THEN IT

BEGINS TO PULL ME FURTHER

FURTHER AWAY AS TO MY WHY THAT'S

REALLY KEEPING ME AND GROUNDING

ME HERE INTO LIFE.

>> WELL, TAKING EVERYTHING THAT

DR. RIOS JUST SAID INTO

CONSIDERATION, MR. THOMAS, I

WANT TO BRING YOU IN AND ASK US

IF YOU CAN TAKE US THROUGH YOUR

OWN LIVED SUICIDE EXPERIENCE

WHILE YOU WERE INCARCERATED, AND

DID ANYTHING THAT YOU WERE

HEARING DR. RIOS SAY RING TRUE

TO YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE?

>> A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HE

ED IS TRUE, EXACTLY.

WHEN YOU GO THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL

FROM 14 TO 18, YOU'RE TRYING TO

FIND YOURSELF, AND WHEN YOU

CAN'T FIND YOURSELF, YOU FOLLOW

SOMEBODY ELSE.

IF YOU FOLLOW SOMEBODY ELSE, MAY

BE THE WRONG WAY, YOU'RE GOING

GET YOURSELF JAMS UP, DON'T WANT

TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

YEAH, YOU'RE DEFINITELY TRYING

TO FIND A WAY TO BE MORE SOCIAL

AND DEFINITELY WANT TO BE

BELONGING AND ALL OF THOSE

THINGS COME BACK AND HAUNT YOU.

IN MY CASE, I'M THE OLDEST OF

SEVEN KIDS.

I GREW UP FROM THE '70s TO THE

'80s.

BY THE END OF THE '70s I WAS 16.

I WAS TRYING TO FIND MYSELF.

THE VIETNAM WAR WAS OVER.

TWO UNCLES I HAD -- I HAD MY

FATHER AND TWO UNCLES.

BOTH OF THEM WAS TOTALLY

DAMAGED.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WAS DAMAGED

BEFORE I WAS BORN, BUT THEY WAS

DAMAGED AND THEY SHOWED ME

NOTHING.

NOTHING.

SO I HAVE MY FATHER AND WHAT I

SEEN IN THE COMMUNITY.

HOWEVER, THE BACKLASH OF ALL

THIS IS WHEN YOU PUT IN A CAGE,

YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT YOURSELF.

AND THE PAIN THAT YOU FEEL FROM

EVERYBODY THAT YOU HURT MAKE YOU

WANT THE HURT YOURSELF, MAKE YOU

WANT TO JUST -- YOU FEEL LIKE IF

YOU WAS TO TAKE YOURSELF OUT OF

THE SITUATION, EVERYBODY THAT

YOU LOVE WOULD JUST CONTINUE TO

MOVE AND EVERYTHING WOULD BE

BEAUTIFUL.

BUT IT DON'T WORK LIKE THAT.

IF I WASN'T SO STRONG, I

PROBABLY WOULD HAVE.

BUT I WAS SO STRONG WHAT

HAPPENED WAS -- I ALWAYS WAS

E-SEEKER FOR KNOWLEDGE.

I GOT INTO THE THERAPEUTIC

FIELD, YOU KNOW, AND THAT

THERAPEUTIC FIELD HELPED ME

ALONG WITH A FEW MENTAL

HEALTH -- PSYCHOLOGISTS.

I HAD DR. PELKY WHEN I WAS IN

UPSTATE NEW YORK.

HE TOLD ME WHAT I HAD.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I HAD.

HE TOLD ME WHAT I WAS HAVING

BECAUSE I WAS JUST TRYING TO

DESTROY THE SELF.

HE TOLD ME I HAD AN ANXIETY

ATTACK, AND THEN HE TOLD ME THE

RESULT OF HOW THE PT -- PTS --

PTD -- POST TRAUMATIC STRESS

DISORDER CAN CAUSE YOU TO HAVE

THOSE TYPE OF EPISODES.

HE WENT IN, ASKED ME ABOUT MY

HISTORY.

SUICIDE IS SOMETHING WE VERY

MUCH NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO,

ESPECIALLY IN PRISON, BECAUSE

WHEN WE GO TO -- AS AN EX

OFFENDER, WHEN I WENT TO JAIL,

MY MIND SET WAS 15 YEARS AGO.

AND IT KIND OF STAY IN THAT ZONE

NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME GO BY.

THAT GO FOR EVERYBODY, A MAN AND

A WOMAN.

>> MM-HMM.

>> AND THAT ZONE, EVEN THOUGH

YOU'RE GOING THROUGH YOUR

THREE-YEAR PERIOD AND

EVERYTHING, AND YOU NEVER -- IF

YOU DON'T REALLY WORK ON

YOURSELF MENTALLY, WHEN YOU COME

BACK, YOU'RE KIND OF, LIKE,

LOST.

AND MOST OF US IN THE REENTRY IS

LOST WHEN WE COME OUT OF THIS.

IF WE DON'T -- WHILE WE'RE IN

PRISON.

>> JAMES, I WANT TO BRING YOU

BACK IN AND ASK, WHEN YOU WERE

WORKING ON THIS FILM, WHAT WERE

SOME OF THE THINGS THE EXPERTS

WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT PEOPLE

CAN OR SHOULD BE AWARE OF WHEN

IT COMES TO THE WARNING SIGNS OR

THE CRISIS SIGNALS WHEN SOMEONE

IS GETTING CLOSE TO THEIR

BREAKING POINT?

>> THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

AS DR. RIOS SAID, THEY OFTEN

WANT TO BE ALONE.

THEY PUSH PEOPLE AWAY FROM THEM.

THEY STOP DOING THE THINGS THEY

REALLY LIKE TO DO, AND ALONG

WITH THAT, THEY SOMETIMES GIVE

THINGS AWAY THAT THEY LOVE.

SO THEY'RE KIND OF PUSHING LIFE

AWAY.

THEY MAY SLEEP A LOT.

THEY MAY SLEEP TOO LITTLE.

SLEEPING -- BAD SLEEP IS ONE OF

THE STRESS FACTORS FOR SUICIDE.

ALCOHOL IS INVOLVE IN THE ABOUT

20% OF AMERICAN SUICIDES, SO

THEY MAY BE DRINKING OR USING

TOO MUCH.

THEY COULD TALK ABOUT DEATH A

LOT.

THEY COULD TALK ABOUT SUICIDE.

THEY COULD TALK ABOUT HOW THEY

FEEL THEY ARE A BURDEN AND HOW

EVERYONE WOULD BE BETTER OFF

WITHOUT THEM.

NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE TRUE.

THEY COULD START DISPLAYING

EXTREME MOOD SWINGS.

BUT I THINK THE BIGGEST ONE IS

PROBABLY ISOLATION.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT -- I'M SURE

WE'LL GET TO IT, BUT YOU'VE GOT

TO JUST BE ATTUNED TO THOSE

THINGS.

IF YOU SEE A DRAMATIC CHANGE IN

ANYONE'S BEHAVIOR, IT DOESN'T

MEAN THEY MAY KILL THEMSELVES,

BUT IT DOES MEAN THEY MAY BE

AGITATED.

YOU NEED TO TALK TO THEM.

>> BUT DID ANY OF THE EXPERTS

YOU SPOKE TO, DID THEY GIVE ANY

SUGGESTIONS -- I ASK THIS

QUESTION BECAUSE SO MUCH OF

AMERICAN SOCIETY IS TAUGHT THAT,

YES, I MIGHT SEE WARNING SIGNS

OR WHATEVER, BUT I'M GOING TO

MIND MY BUSINESS, OR I'M NOT

GOING TO GET IN THEIR BUSINESS,

OR THAT'S NOT MY PLACE.

SO I THINK A LOT OF AMERICANS

ARE CONDITIONED TO PERHAPS NOT

TOUCH ON THOSE ISSUES.

>> UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S A GREAT

DEAL OF STIGMA AROUND MENTAL

HEALTH AND SUICIDE, AND SO

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT

IT.

IT'S EMBARRASSING TO THEM.

IT'S EMBARRASSING -- THEY THINK

IT'S EMBARRASSING TO THE PERSON

WHO THEY WANT THE TALK TO.

BUT THEY NEED TO TALK TO THAT

PERSON, AND THAT PERSON ACTUALLY

GENERALLY WANTS TO TALK.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY, ARE

YOU THINKING ABOUT KILLING

YOURSELF?

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ASK THE

QUESTION.

AND IF YOU'RE -- IF THEY SAY NO,

NO, I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT THAT

AT ALL.

I'M DEPRESSED ABOUT THIS, UPSET

ABOUT THAT -- YOU'RE NOT GOING

TO TRIGGER THEM.

IT'S A BIG MYTH, AS MANY PEOPLE

BELIEVE, IF YOU ASK SOMEONE IF

THEY WANT TO KILL THEMSELVES

THAT THEY'LL DO IT.

IT'S NOT A TRIGGER AT ALL.

IN FACT, IT'S AN INTRODUCTION TO

HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION.

AND MAKE SURE YOU -- IF YOU'RE

GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION, AND

YOU SHOULD, MAKE SURE YOU'VE SET

ASIDE TIME, BECAUSE IF THE

ANSWER'S YES, YOU HAVE GOT MORE

WORK TO DO.

>> DR. RIOS, THIS IS AGAIN WHERE

I WANT TO BRING YOU BACK IN.

SO MUCH OF WHAT WE JUST HEARD,

NOT ONLY JAMES TALK ABOUT BUT

ALSO MR. THOMAS, THERE CAN BE

COMPOUNDING ISSUES FOR PEOPLE,

AND I'M WONDERING IF RESEARCH IS

NOW BEARING OUT THAT WHILE YES,

ISOLATION AND FEELING LOST AND

NOT HAVING A PLACE CAN ADD TO

SUICIDAL IDEATION, BUT CAN ALSO,

FOR LOCK OF A BETTER

DESCRIPTION, GENERATIONAL TRAUMA

THAT UNFORTUNATELY THIS COUNTRY

INFLICTED ON A LOT OF MINORITY

GROUPS.

>> RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY.

I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO WHAT

SMOKE MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY

WOMEN SPOKE ABOUT POST TRAUMATIC

STRESS DISORDER.

WHAT HAPPENS IS INDIVIDUALS

DON'T OFTEN CLASSIFY FOR THIS

CRITERIA ACCORDING TO THE DSM

FOR POST TRAUMATIC STRESS

DISORDER.

THEREFORE, THERE'S ANOTHER

DIAGNOSE THAT'S MORE ACCURATE

THAT'S UNDERUTILIZED IS COMPLEX

PTSD.

IT'S CURRENTLY NOT LISTED UNDER

THE DSM, BUT WE HAVE TO ADVOCATE

FOR IT TO BE SO WE CAN CAPTURE

THOSE WHO HAVE LIVED WITH A

TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE BUT MAY NOT

HAVE MET THE FULL CRITERIA FOR

PTSD.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF I LIVE IN A

COMMUNITY WHERE I DON'T HAVE

EMOTIONAL SUPPORT, I SEE DEATH,

FOLKS MY AGE UNDER THE AGE OF 15

YEARS OLD I KNOW HAVE DIED BY

VIOLENCE OR GUN VIOLENCE,

THERE'S ASSAULTS.

SO WE KNOW THAT ALTHOUGH IN

AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES, WE

MAY SEE HIGH RATES OF POVERTY,

WHAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IS THAT

ALSO AFRICAN AMERICAN YOUNG MEN

WITH 16 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE

VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES BEFORE

THE AGE OF 16 YEARS OLD.

SO ROBBERY, ASSAULT, AND BECOMES

NORMALIZED REGARDING THESE

EXPERIENCES.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS WHERE DOES

PROCESSING OF FEELING CONNECTED

TO MY COMMUNITY, BEING ABLE TO

FEEL LIKE I HAVE VALUE, I HAVE

WORTH?

AND THEN WE BEGIN TO HAVE

HOPELESSNESS.

THERE'S ECONOMIC INJUSTICE,

ENVIRONMENTAL INJUSTICE, FOOD

INJUSTICE THAT EXISTS.

YOU PUT ALL THAT TOGETHER AND

TAKE A WINDOW INTO THE

PSYCHOLOGY OF BELONGINGNESS,

WHETHER IT'S IN MY COMMUNITY OR

AMERICA.

THEN WE MOVE INTO THE PRISON

SYSTEM WHERE THERE'S A 61 --

THERE'S BEEN A 61% INCREASE FROM

2001 TO 2018, AND DEATH BY

SUICIDE WITHIN STATE AND FEDERAL

PRISONS.

AND IN 2018 IT HIT THE HIGHEST

UP OVER 1,120 INDIVIDUALS DIED

BY SUICIDE IN PRISON.

AND THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH

MENTAL HEALTH FOCUS ARE WE

PLACING IN THE PRISON SYSTEM?

IF WE KNOW THAT THERE'S OVER 60%

OF INDIVIDUALS THAT COME INTO

FEDERAL PRISONS WITH A MENTAL

HEALTH DIAGNOSIS ALREADY, THEN

WHERE IS THE HELP FOR BEFORE AND

AFTER?

BECAUSE THE BIGGEST RISK FACTOR

DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN WITHIN

PRISON, IT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME

HOME.

AND SMOKE MENTIONED THIS IN

DETAIL.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND

PEOPLE.

THINGS CHANGE.

YOU BEGIN TO ASK YOURSELF HARD

QUESTIONS LIKE, IS THIS THE

SPACE FOR ME?

DO I FEEL LIKE I'M SUPPORTED AND

PEOPLE ARE THERE FOR ME?

AS MENTIONED EARLIER, AM I BEING

A BURDEN TO OTHER PEOPLE?

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT TO

MOVE AWAY FROM.

>> MR. THOMAS, I'M WONDERING

FROM YOUR OWN PERSONAL

EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU WERE

RELEASED FINALLY, HOW DID YOU GO

ABOUT FINDING THAT FEELING OF

VALUE NOT JUST TO YOUR COMMUNITY

BUT TO YOURSELF.

>> START IN THE PRISON.

LIKE I PREVIOUSLY SAID, THE

THERAPEUTIC FIELD I HAVE BEEN

DOING MAYBE 30 YEARS.

I WORK IN THE PRERELEASE AND

WENT TO COMMUNITY PREP.

THEN FROM COMMUNITY PREP, IT

TRANSITIONED TO SERVICE, WHICH

IT IS NOW.

THREE STATES OF TRANSIT OF

SERVICE PHASE, ONE, TWO, AND

THREE.

THERE'S SO MUCH.

LIVING, MATERIAL, HOW TO

NAVIGATE YOURSELF AROUND THE

PRISON, THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS

AND DIFFERENT STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO

SOMETHING THAT MR. RIOS SAID.

>> MM-HMM.

>> WHEN YOU LOCKED UP, RIGHT,

YOU LOCKED UP, IT'S -- IT'S

SO -- IT'S SO COMPLEX.

IT SEEMS EASY FOR YOU TO

NAVIGATE YOURSELF AROUND IT, BUT

WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW IS THAT

PRISON IS 80% TO 90% MENTAL.

AND 15% TO 15% PHYSICAL.

YOU COULD BE THE LITTLEST GUY,

4'9", IF YOU GOT A BRAIN, YOU

CAN MANIPULATE GUYS, NAVIGATE

WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.

SO A LOT OF TIMES THAT'S WHY

MENTAL HEALTH PLAY A PART.

I GOT RECOGNIZED BY HAVING

DEPRESSION BY TWO PEOPLE.

ONE WAS A LIEUTENANT, AND SHE

PUT IN THE REFERRAL, AND THEY

TOOK ME OUT AND TOOK ME TO JOHN

PELKY, UPSTATE NEW YORK, MALONE

COUNTY.

THE SECOND TIME, WHICH WAS THE

LAST TIME WAS MY COUNSELOR IN

SING SING AT 2017, AND SHE PUT

ME IN FOR A REFERRAL.

I ALWAYS WENT TO SEE AND TALK TO

HER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NEEDED TO

BE DONE LIKE DR. RIOS SAID THAT

AIN'T BEING DONE, THEY NEED

PEOPLE THEY NEED THE MENTAL

HEALTH STAFF TO GO IN THE MAX

JAILS TO GO IN THE SELLS AND

COMMUNICATE WITH INDIVIDUALS.

PUT IN REFERRALS EVERY MONTH FOR

EVERYBODY TO GO AND SEE MENTAL

HEALTH SO THEY CAN TALK TO THEM

PRIVATELY.

THAT WILL COMBAT.

THAT WILL CLOSE SOME OF THE GAP.

BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO IS -- AND I

DID 38 YEARS IN PRISON.

THEY WAIT FOR EITHER YOU TO DO

SOMETHING, AND THEY SAY HE NEED

A REFERRAL IN, OR FOR YOU TO

SHOW EXTREME SIGNS.

SO THEY AIN'T REALLY DOING

ENOUGH.

THEY CAN DO MORE.

BUT COMMUNICATION, IF THEY WAS

TO HAVE A STAFF TO REALLY START

DOING MORE EVALUATIONS EVERY

MONTH WITH EVERYBODY LIKE

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO INSTEAD OF

DOING PAPER WORK AND PUSH, IT

ALL THROUGH, THAT WILL CHANGE

SOME OF THE MENTAL HEALTH STUFF.

>> THIS IS JUST SUCH A COMPLEX

ISSUE AND THERE ARE SO MANY

LAYERS TO GET TO, BUT WE ARE

COMING ON THE END AN OUR TIME

TOGETHER.

WITH ABOUT TWO MINUTES LEFT,

JAMES, I'M WONDERING, ONE OF THE

OTHER THINGS WE DID LEARN IN THE

FILM IS THERE IS OFTEN A GAP

BETWEEN WHEN PEOPLE FIND

THEMSELVES IN CRISIS AND WHEN

THEY'RE ABLE TO RECEIVE HELP.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST YOUR TAKE ON

JUST THE NATURE OF THAT GAP, AND

IS THERE SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN,

NONPROFESSIONALS CAN DO TO TRY

TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE PAIN

THAT INDIVIDUAL IS IN?

>> SURE.

ONCE YOU'VE IDENTIFIED SOMEONE

YOU THINK IS AT RISK, THERE'S

STUFF YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO.

FIRST OF ALL, DO NOT LEAVE THEM

ALONE.

THAT'S THE MAIN THING.

DO NOT LEAVE THEM ALONE.

ESCORT THEM TO A SAFE PLACE, A

HOSPITAL, EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT,

A MENTAL HEALTH WORKER.

MAKE SURE THEIR ENVIRONMENT,

BEFORE YOU EVEN DO THAT, IS

SAFE.

THERE'S A PHRASE CALLED MEANS

MATTER.

GET GUNS OUT OF THEIR

ENVIRONMENT.

GUNS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE

SUICIDE DEATHS THAN ALL OTHER

MEANS COMBINED.

YOU CAN TAKE GUNS OUT OF THE

HOME, TAKE POISONS OUT OF THE

HOME.

YOU CAN THEN CALL -- YOU MAY

NEED TO CALL THE SUICIDE

PREVENTION HOTLINE AT 988 TO GET

ADVICE.

DON'T LEAVE THEM ALONE.

TAKE THEM TO A MENTAL HEALTH

PROFESSIONAL AND THEN SEE THEM

THROUGH.

SEE THEM THROUGH THAT

APPOINTMENT.

THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE --

THERE WILL BE A GAP BETWEEN

THE -- BEFORE THEY START GETTING

LONG-TERM CARE.

AND THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE

SAFETY PLAN THAT WE SHOW IN THE

FILM THE SAFETY PLAN GOES

THROUGH A BUNCH OF STRATEGIES

THE PERSON CAN TAKE IN ORDER TO

DEVELOP RESILIENCE, TO GET

THEMSELVES OUT OF A SUICIDAL

IDEATION.

THE IMPULSE TO KILL YOURSELF

DOESN'T LAST VERY LONG.

IF YOU CAN WRITE A LIST OF

THINGS TO DO TO TAKE YOUR MIND

OFF YOUR PROBLEMS YOU CAN

SOMETIMES OUTWAIT THAT SUICIDAL

IMPULSE, SO I URGE PEOPLE TO

WATCH THE SHOW AND LEARN ABOUT

THE SAFE PLAN.

THAT'S SOMETHING YOU ONLY GET

ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN TO AN

EMERGENCY ROOM AND HAD A SESSION

WITH A MENTAL HEALTH

PROFESSIONAL.

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE

GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE,

BUT I'D LIKE TO THANK MY PANEL

OF GUESTS FOR TONIGHT.

AWARD-WINNING FILMMAKER JAMES

BARRETT, AGAIN, PRODUCER OF THE

PBS DOCUMENTARY "FACING

SUICIDE".

STEVEN THOMAS, OR SMOKE AS HE'S

KNOWN, WHO'S FEATURED IN

LEARNING TO LIVE, DISCUSSING HIS

LIVED SUICIDE EXPERIENCE WHILE

INCARCERATED.

HE'S ALSO NOW THE COMMUNITY

COORDINATOR FOR DRUM, WHICH

WORKS TO IMPROVE BROOKLYN FOR

ALL NEW YORKERS.

AND OF COURSE THANK YOU TO

DR. JUAN RIOS, A LICENSED

PSYCHOTHEIR MISS FEATURE IN THE

"LEARNING TO LIVE".

BE SURE TO VISIT US AT

METROFOCUS.ORG FOR FACING

SUICIDE AND LEARNING TO LIVE,

THE RESILIENT PATH AFTER PRISON.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND

GOOD NIGHT.

>>> IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT

SUICIDE, OR IF YOU OR SOMEONE

YOU KNOW IS IN EMOTIONAL CRISIS,

CALL OR TEXT 988 OR CHAT 988

LIFELINE.ORG ANY TIME FOR

CONFIDENTIAL FREE CRISIS

SUPPORT.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND,

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.