[ Birds chirping ]

♪♪♪

>> I think the most haunting

thing was seeing that front-page

picture of him on the

Montclair Times.

That picture haunts me, because

that isn't that vivacious boy

that I want to remember.

That was a criminal.

>> When I saw the picture, I

didn't recognize him.

I looked at it first, and I did

a double take on it 'cause it

was not the kid that I knew.

>> That's not the guy I knew,

no.

It's almost like somebody turned

that spirit, turned that light

completely off.

>> And there's the worst

possible mug-shot-type picture

of my student.

And he's, you know, been picked

up for murder, and implicated in

the shooting of this other kid.

And you don't want to believe

it.

You want to think that this kid

that you love and thought had a

shot really did have a shot.

>> As smart a kid as I've ever

taught in my whole life,

intuitively.

And not so much from a knowledge

base, but from an ability to

understand things, to ask good

questions.

I think he's a kid that could

have done great things.

He could have accomplished for

himself great things, and he

probably could have impacted on

other people.

He's the one that got away.

Yep.

>> What do you mean?

>> Well, he's the one that, you

know, Humpty Dumpty couldn't put

back together again.

♪♪♪

>> Funding for this program has

been provided by the

JPB Foundation and the

Ford Foundation as part of

Chasing the Dream: Poverty

and Opportunity in America...

And...

...and others.

A full list of underwriters is

available from WNET and WLIW.

♪♪♪

[ Marching band playing ]

>> Montclair is a community that

reflects, more than most places,

what this country actually looks

like.

The current slogan is "Where the

city meets the suburbs."

And the people who have decided

to move here felt comfortable

living in a community that had a

multi-ethnic flavor to it.

Hey. Hello. How are you?

My name is Dan Gill.

I'm a teacher here in Montclair.

Hello, Vanessa.

>> Hey, Mr. Gill!

How are you?

[ Speaks indistinctly ]

>> That's all right.

Congratulations.

>> Thanks!

>> I saw your picture in the

paper.

There is a belief that public

education doesn't work,

that it's too expensive,

that the experiment is a

failure.

This is the biggest lie going

on, that public school fails.

There's probably not a person

out there who has gone to a

public school who cannot think

of one teacher that helped them

along the way.

[ Laughter ]

You know, when I say, "I teach

in Montclair," people usually

associate Montclair with wealth.

And when I tell them that 19% of

the kids in my school are on

free and reduced lunch, people

are, like, shocked.

Many of the poor members of our

socioeconomic group live in the

South End of town.

Been in this town for 42 years.

I have taught at this school for

34, and that's called Glenfield.

And this is basically the anchor

school for the South End.

And the place that offered a lot

of opportunity to people who did

not have opportunities in their

lives.

[ Indistinct chatter ]

>> Hi, guys!

[ Chatter continues ]

>> Good morning, Mr. Gill.

>> Good morning.

How are you today?

>> Good. How are you?

>> I am fine, thank you.

And the question is, how do we

balance being safe, all right --

being safe -- and giving up our

rights?

And that's the biggest -- when

you're about 25, that's one of

the biggest questions you guys

are gonna have to answer.

Because people are starting to

talk about that stuff.

How much are we gonna allow

people to take away our rights?

You know, if I tell you it makes

you safe, does it make you safe

just 'cause I say it?

There's an expression in my

family -- "He's not receiving

guests."

And basically what that means is

you try to speak to somebody,

and they turn you off.

But what we've learned in

teaching is that you continually

give the message, "You can be

better.

You can do better."

And not in a sense of

recrimination, not in a sense of

blame, but in a sense of "That's

what you can be."

If you repeat the message to

students, after a while, they're

gonna start to believe that.

It may not be the first 100

times, but it's gonna be over a

period of time.

And I think that that's what

educators can do for kids, is to

remind them of their better

side, and remind them of who

they can be, and that

there are people who are out

there who can help them to get

to those places.

So, we're here to talk about one

of the students who came through

this school.

His name is Tourrie Moses.

Tourrie entered high school in

the sixth grade.

>> I remember him right in the

beginning -- little, skinny.

Very, very, very shy.

But what did grab me early on

was that he just looked at you.

Like, his eyes would just bore

into you, and he'd hang on every

word.

>> Electric eyes.

You look at him, you just could

see right into him, and see the

good.

And he had a glow about him.

>> He tried.

He wasn't like one of those kids

who came in and could care less.

He was never disrespectful

to us.

He was always kind and polite.

"Please" and "Thank you."

>> He was a student that you

could see intuitively understood

lots of things.

He looked like the kind of kid

that we could embrace in the

sense of helping and moving

along.

>> So, this is the closet.

And in the closet is a whole

bunch of books.

Tourrie came to me and asked if

he could try one of my books.

And he did.

And within a week, he said,

"I loved it.

This was incredible.

Can I have another?"

And then it was "And another,

and another."

And he was so vivacious in his

reading.

And we'd sit down, we'd talk

about the books.

And he couldn't wait to get to

the next novel.

And I remember thinking, "Wow,

for next year, I'm gonna have to

order more books," because he's

gonna go through all the novels

I had.

>> Vanessa talked to Dad, I

think, at some point, about

Tourrie.

>> Uh...

>> Is that your understanding or

what you remember?

>> I mean, I remember --

I don't remember how I heard

about...

>> Yeah.

>> ...the murder.

Someone told me, or maybe my dad

told me.

It was like, "Oh, do you

remember this kid?"

And I was like, "Oh, he sat next

to me in history class in, you

know, eighth grade."

And I guess it may have

interested my dad that -- one,

that I knew someone who murdered

someone else, and that I --

I liked him.

He was a nice guy.

>> Right.

>> It's sad.

It's hard to like a guy that

kills another guy, but it's hard

to not like a guy that's never

been mean to me.

So, for whatever reason, I guess

that caught his interest.

>> He was kind of a clown the

way I was, you know.

We were both guys who liked to

have fun.

And, I mean, just on the

surface, you know, he and I are

very -- could easily be confused

for one another.

You know, we're both just tall,

Black males with short haircuts,

both like rap music, both like

making jokes, both like candy

and soda.

[ Laughter ]

So, I mean, we had a whole lot

of simple stuff in common that

we could just relate to.

>> When we went to the computer

lab, we were always, like,

partners.

And he was always the one who

just, like, wanted to help.

>> He had the best smile ever.

And then one day he told me that

I had a nice smile, and I was

just like...

>> Really?

>> [ Laughs ]

>> Like, and walked away.

But, yeah.

He's very, very charming.

>> He didn't start to really

talk to me for a long time.

And then...

I'm trying to remember if it was

Valentine's Day or the Christmas

holiday.

The kids were writing letters to

somebody that they loved.

And that was when I first

started to understand, you know,

any of the pieces of the story.

He wrote a letter to his mother.

And she was in rehab.

And she was down South

somewhere.

And he had the most perfect

handwriting, and he had a really

mature vocabulary for a kid his

age.

And he wrote just so -- you

know, in this heartfelt way of,

"Dear Mom, I really hope you're

doing well.

I think about you every day.

I pray for you.

I hope you're able to keep it

together," or whatever his words

were.

But that was really, really

touching.

And that's how I started to talk

to him.

'Cause, you know, you take these

assignments, if you will, from

the kids and, you know, you read

them, you give them back, and I

just was, like, up all night

after I read his.

♪♪♪

>> I knew that he cared.

And I also cared.

But drugs and alcohol will --

will hold everything within you

until you just crack one day.

>> And when's the last time you

used heroin?

>> Last year was the last time I

used heroin.

>> Why have you used it over the

years?

>> 'Cause it blocked the

feelings.

>> One teacher said Tourrie had

a very nimble mind, that he used

to ask all sorts of questions.

>> Mm-hmm.

Well, you know, that's him.

>> How do you mean?

Was he very inquisitive?

>> Very. Mm-hmm.

>> What kinds of things did he

used to ask you?

>> Just any and everything.

Whatever.

"Ma, what's that?

Ma, what's that?

What's that for?"

>> And your response was?

>> I'd just throw it off, brush

it off some type of way --

"RayRay, that's what it's there

for.

That's what it's there for" --

instead of giving him the right

answer.

I would just, like, brush it

off.

>> Because?

>> Being high.

Just being high.

>> His mother lost custody of

him.

The way he told it, his father

was appointed his guardian at

some point.

>> Father wasn't responsive.

He'd never come in when we

wanted to talk to him about

issues, whether it's his

academic growth or whatever.

Father wouldn't come in.

Ever.

♪♪♪

>> I didn't want to sit down and

drink no coffee and talk to

teachers and stuff and all that.

That wasn't my thing.

>> Your son was really

well-liked.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And he was a really good

student.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> In fact, some of the teachers

thought that one day he'd go to

Harvard.

>> That's what I thought.

>> You thought what?

>> That's what I thought.

Thought he'd go to Harvard or

something like that.

I -- I thought he'd go to MIT.

All the stuff he would draw, and

the mechanical drawings that he

would do.

I couldn't even understand it.

Even though I don't know

anything about it, but I was

always, "What is this?"

Stuff that he would just do.

>> Look, let me ask you -- and I

don't know.

I'm not you, so I --

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But why wouldn't you want to

go to hear those things about

your son, that he was such a

terrific kid?

>> I wasn't that kind of a

parent.

I'm not coming to the game, I'm

not -- I'm not doing that.

That's not me.

I'ma hit the streets.

I'ma take care of my business.

I'ma take care of my son and

keep him straight, but y'all --

I don't want to have anything to

do with you.

Unless there's a problem, I'll

come there and I'll take care of

it.

And if my son do anything wrong,

we'll talk, and we'll try to fix

it and work it out.

Other than that, you can keep

the games, you can keep the

little picnic and everything

else.

That's not me.

>> Where does that come from?

Your father was a preacher.

Your mom seems great.

>> Oh, my father never came to

none of my things, either.

He was in another state.

And my mother didn't, either.

She never came to anything.

My mother never even come when I

graduated.

My mother was working.

She was working hard.

My mother used to work two,

three jobs.

>> Now, perpendicular -- yeah.

There were teachers here who saw

Tourrie when he got stuck.

Where he couldn't get home,

couldn't -- wouldn't go home.

Went to their house.

People bent over, you know,

backwards to put as much effort

as they could into trying to

support what they knew was a

situation that was very

difficult.

>> He was needy, but he wasn't

needy like some kids are needy.

You know, like, "Miss Maher,

Miss Maher, Miss Maher,

Miss Maher, come with me.

Blah, blah, blah."

Some of the kids will hold your

hand, you know.

There's all kinds of crazy

stuff for the emotionally-needy

kids.

He was quietly needy.

He just wanted you to talk to

him.

>> Walk this way.

>> Okay.

Well, I just hope -- like I

said, this is the testimony.

>> How would you describe

yourself?

>> Hmm.

Are you talking in terms of

now, or when?

>> Yeah, who is Tourrie Moses?

>> Uh...

Right now?

That's a very good question.

[ Chuckles ]

I never been asked that question

ever before in my life.

That's -- that's kind of

amazing.

And I really -- I really don't

have an answer.

Um...

Who is Tourrie Moses? Um...

>> Mr. Gill thought a lot

of you.

He thought you were an

exceedingly bright and curious

young boy.

>> That's funny, because I --

I feel like I am.

I ask a lot of questions a lot.

A lot of people don't like that.

I'll ask a lot of questions.

I'm not necessarily nosy,

I just ask a lot of questions.

I ask questions that nobody else

will ask.

I was asking my bunkie the other

day, I said, "Man, how does

drugs -- does drugs make you not

care about, like, anything?

Like, does it make you not care

about your kids?"

And he don't know nothing about

my life, so he looks down like,

"Man, what are you talking

about?

You crazy or something?"

And I'll be just like, "Nah,

man.

I ain't trying to disrespect

you, or I ain't trying to, you

know, be nosy.

I just want to know."

And at that time, yesterday, I

was thinking about why my mother

was never there for me.

Was it the drugs?

Like, drugs can really do that

to you?

So, I had somebody who did drugs

before, so I asked him.

Like, "Yo, how do drugs really

make you feel?"

So I could really know for sure

if my mother was ever really

going through that.

And, like, right now, like,

you're probably thinking of me,

like, "Yeah, that's kind of a

weird question to be asking

somebody you don't know."

But that's the kind of things

I do.

I mean, how you gonna know

something if you don't ask

questions?

I loved school.

I had the most amazing teachers,

the wonderful teachers.

My favorite teacher was a female

by the name of Miss Maher.

She was my Language Arts

teacher.

She was -- yeah, she's something

else, man.

She, uh...

Yeah, she, uh....

She tried to help me out, in her

own ways, a lot.

My favorite subject ever is

science.

And not the regular science.

Like biology, where you deal

with the body parts and stuff

like that.

I love that.

I love, you know -- like, I

remember in middle school, we

had a frog dissection in my

science class.

I remember the teacher, her name

was Miss Blank, she used to tell

me -- she used to say, "Wow,

Tourrie, you're really into

this."

And I used to be just sitting

there with the thing, and the

other kids were squeamish.

Like, "Oh, this stinks!

This stinks!"

And I used to be in there just

trying to figure out what all

the body parts were and what was

in the frog and open it up.

I had no problem -- I wasn't

really squeamish with cutting it

open and looking inside.

And then I'd really feel it.

Like, "Yeah, man, I really want

to be a doctor and just try to

save lives."

Like, I always liked to think

about, you know, like how you

can hook up somebody's veins and

save them, or somebody gets

shot, and they rush them into

there to me, and I can work on

them and save somebody's life.

And then I used to feel like --

to be honest, a lot of times I

used to feel like, man, if I

could be a doctor, you know,

maybe me saving lives maybe

could help out some of the wrong

that I've done, you know?

>> What was the first bad thing

you ever did?

>> Hmm.

I stole -- I stole toys from my

kindergarten class.

>> How come?

>> I didn't have any toys.

>> He had homework issues,

Tourrie.

He didn't have the Internet.

He didn't have a computer.

He didn't have whatever.

So we decided that we'd hook him

up with a computer.

And I went to the apartment with

him to deliver it.

So, I met his dad.

So I wasn't surprised.

I have very rarely been in such

a rigid, like, tension-filled

little living room.

It was unbelievable.

His father was cold as ice.

Not even pretending to be

polite.

"Thank you very much."

Not, "Can you, you know, sit

down?" or anything.

And I saw a complete change in

Tourrie's demeanor.

Terrified.

Nervous rabbit.

>> Miss Maher was like a mother

to me, because she would try to

get me sometimes after school.

And I stayed at after-school

programs, you know.

And I stayed there 'cause I

didn't want to go home.

Like, certain after-school

programs we had -- I forget the

name of them.

Mr. Gill had an after-school

program.

I would love to stay there, man.

I would be the last one to leave

'cause I loved staying there.

And I would -- man, the stroll I

would take home -- I didn't live

too far from school.

I lived with my father at the

time.

But the stroll I would take

home, I would walk so slow

'cause I didn't want to go home.

I wanted to stay at school.

But you can't.

You know what I'm saying?

You've got to go home.

Got to go home to your family.

Yeah.

>> His father wouldn't let him

go on field trips.

We couldn't get a signed trip

form from his father.

And we would go on maybe

three -- back then, maybe four

trips a year.

I took him once, illegally,

on a trip.

[ Chuckles ]

Because I thought that he should

go, and I took a chance.

But I said, "No, I'm gonna do

that."

But other than that, I had to

leave him behind.

So, that was -- so, his world

never got expanded that way.

And as a kid, they would

have probably soaked it all in.

More than most.

And understood it better

than most.

>> So, I always keep some photos

on my desk that are special

to me.

This is the only trip that

Tourrie -- the only school field

trip that Tourrie ever went on.

It's a simulated space station.

So, the kids, they pretend like

they're on a space shuttle.

>> These kids get out of school,

go to a museum in the city.

Then all of a sudden they start

to see the world in a

different way.

And for a kid like him, that's

something that's really

important.

He has to know that there's

something other than the street.

>> In Tourrie's case,

it was probably about seventh

grade, midway through, 'cause

that's when the field trips were

happening, and the attendance

and the homework started to come

down.

And as a result, the grades did.

>> Sometimes my dad would --

I wouldn't be able to --

I can't say I wouldn't be able

to come to school, but sometimes

I smelled punishment, and I

didn't know if I'd go to school,

so I would sit home --

It was weird at my dad's house.

So, I would sit home all day

under the covers, and he

wouldn't say anything.

Until one day, like, 3:00, I

would wake up dizzy 'cause I'd

been laying in bed for two days

straight.

I'd wake up dizzy, I would try

to get up, and then one morning

I would just to school and he

wouldn't say nothing.

I'd be like, "Okay, it's all

right for me to go to school."

But some days, I would miss two,

three days, you know?

>> He said he was more afraid of

you than of anybody else in the

world.

>> I think because of the things

he heard, and the things he's

known that I've done, and what

I'm capable of doing.

I ain't no big guy, but I can

rock.

I can do it.

He's seen me do things to

people that, you know...

>> What has he seen you do?

>> He's seen me fight.

I tried to beat a person down to

the concrete.

>> Have you killed anyone?

>> No.

>> In a way, it sounds like you

lucked out that you didn't.

>> [ Laughs ]

Yeah, yeah.

I've had, you know,

attempted-murder accusations,

but that's about that.

But it didn't...

>> So, I have to ask you --

should I be afraid of you?

>> No.

>> Why not?

>> If you put your hands on me,

though...

If you put your hands on me,

it'd be different.

But other than that,

I don't bother people.

I don't do nothing.

I don't do none of that.

>> And I understand, probably,

that my father has his own --

has his own issues that he has

to deal with.

And I love him till this day.

I still love my father, you know

what I'm saying, but...

I just didn't feel like

that was the place for me to be.

I didn't feel like I was loved

there, you know what I mean?

Like I said, it's probably hard

for you to imagine, but it's

like going someplace and just

being there 'cause you just got

to be there.

"This is where the courts say I

got to be right now," you know

what I mean?

"I got to be with my dad

right now.

I got to live with him.

But he don't want me here."

>> Was he affectionate?

>> I mean...

It's hard to explain.

You know, not really.

I mean, he told me he loved me

every now and then, but...

It was other stuff that I seen

and other stuff that I went

through that always showed me

otherwise.

Like, my mother told me she

loved me, but she was never

around.

So how much is that -- you know

what I mean, how am I supposed

to really believe that?

>> Tourrie was always restless.

And he'd always go out and look

for his mom, no matter what.

He was worried about her 24/7.

>> Why are we speaking to you in

silhouette, anonymously?

>> I don't want no one to really

recognize my face.

There's people out there that

will hurt you for the least

little thing.

>> What kind of father was your

son?

>> Being a single father, he did

the best he could.

And it was like this --

Tourrie knew that whatever his

father said, he had to do it.

His father made sure he went to

school.

He had to go to school.

He did his homework.

Tourrie was an excellent

student.

He just -- like his father.

His father was really good with

that.

His mother even made A's in

school.

>> The only time I scolded him,

and it was verbally, that was

basically when...

If I saw he got weak.

And I was just trying to make

him strong.

But, then, maybe that was --

you know, that's what I mean was

a bad influence.

If he was crying, I'd say, "Man,

don't cry.

You looking like a punk.

Don't cry. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Don't cry."

And, you know, I would tell him,

you know, "Don't complain.

Don't whine.

Just master that and take care

of that.

Just do it. Don't whine.

I don't want to hear all that

whining and crying.

You got to be strong.

You got to -- you know, you got

to man up.

You got to man up.

You got to just do this."

I would tell him things like

that.

And it might have put some

hardness in him.

You know, that he felt like he

had to be hard.

>> Miss Blank encouraged Tourrie

wherever she could.

She actually was in charge of

the student council.

So in the seventh grade, when

they had the elections for the

eighth grade, she encouraged

Tourrie to run for president.

>> I remember that there were

some concerns that he had

already slipped up academically

in some of his classes, and some

people saying, "Is he gonna be

able to do it?"

And I said very confidently

that, "He will be fine," and

that, "If he needs help, I will

help him out," and that's he's

gonna do a really good job.

>> I just got really into the

idea of having, like, him do it,

'cause he was just, like, so

friendly to everyone.

So, I offered to write Tourrie's

speech for him and be his

campaign manager, and go around

talking to my friends and

saying, "Hey, you should really

vote for Tourrie.

He's a good kid."

So, I wrote this whole speech

for him.

Never read it.

I could totally tell he was just

making stuff up off the top of

his head.

But it worked.

I guess we elected him.

[ Laughter ]

>> You're talking about, out of

600 kids, he was voted the

person to represent the class.

>> Oh, yeah. I was very excited.

I remember hearing it over the

radio.

They said my name.

"Tourrie Moses" and everybody

yelled.

I mean...

It was funny to me, because -- I

was so giddy about it because I

was like, "Wow!" you know.

Even the white kids around me

were like, "Yay!

Tourrie! Tourrie!"

>> I was proud, man.

I was proud.

His allowance went up.

Everything.

I mean, it was proud.

I used to have his stuff on my

wall in my apartment.

I'd show all my girlfriends.

"You see my son right here?

He a better man than I'll

ever be.

You see that right there?

That's my son."

>> Okay.

Good morning.

I'm Tourrie, the student-council

president, as you all should

know, and I'm making a speech.

November 11th marks a date in

which Americans are called upon

to give thanks to all the

courageous men and women who,

for over 200 years, have

protected their beliefs for

freedom and democracy.

>> But there were some issues.

When you are the student-council

president, you have to show up

at night.

For instance, if there's a

school play or a school concert,

you might have to say the

Pledge of Allegiance or speak or

do something.

And that was an issue.

He wouldn't show up, and we

wouldn't know why.

And he would say he didn't feel

well or whatever.

And you were expected to present

yourself a certain way -- like,

wear black pants, white shirt,

whatever -- and that he finally

said, "I don't have the

clothes."

We got him the clothes.

He still didn't show up.

So, eventually, maybe February,

like mid-school year, he said he

didn't want to do it anymore.

>> Just relinquished it.

Said, "Nah. Not gonna do that."

You know?

>> Why did he do that?

>> Our feeling was it wasn't

street.

It wasn't cool, you know?

That all of a sudden people are

looking at him saying, "Oh,

you're class president."

You know, "How bad are you?"

>> You stepped down from that

office.

Why?

>> I wish I could explain it to

you more, Mr. Block.

But it's like...

[ Sighs ]

I would have to --

I wish I could just show you a

picture of my life.

I would have to --

I've always been in the streets.

I've always -- no matter what,

I've always been in the streets.

Even growing up.

My grandmother will tell you.

My mother used to have me out on

the streets with her at 3:00,

2:00 in the morning when I was

3 years old.

This is all the stuff I grew

around.

All the old guys around the

streets that you might see

roaming in Montclair now, in,

like, you know, the bad part,

like New Street and Pine Street.

They've known me ever since I

was little, you know?

A lot of guys locked up now,

they know me.

They don't even know what I look

like now, but they've known me

ever since I was little, because

I was a little baby walking on

the streets with my mother and

her friends that were doing

drugs.

And that's all I ever seen.

>> A lot of the other boys got

involved with stuff.

With, like, after-school sports

or Scouts or whatever it is.

And he wasn't allowed to do

anything.

He, all of a sudden, started to

hang out with kids, you know, in

the park behind school and not

in the school.

>> In the eighth grade, things

started to fall apart.

And he was getting himself in

trouble outside of school, which

came to a head where he was

arrested, and he was sent to the

juvenile detention center.

>> For a fight.

I went and fought a kid at

the -- in front of

Glenfield Middle School after

school hours, you know.

Got arrested for it.

And they locked my friend up.

He had a BB gun in his

possession.

I went to court with him.

His mother showed up and, you

know, came and got him.

The next day, he was gone,

you know?

And I stayed.

I stayed in a youth house for

about two weeks before my father

ever -- I remember calling my

aunt, telling her, "Can you

please tell my father to come

get me?"

Like, "Tell him I'm sorry."

You know what I mean?

"I can't be here.

This is hurting.

This is hurting."

I wouldn't do it in front of the

other inmates, but, you know,

when you get into a place like

this or a place like jail, man,

you know, it's hard, man.

It's hard being away from your

family, so...

Sometimes, you know, people cry.

You know, I got on the phone,

I'm speaking my aunt, and I'm

crying.

I'm telling her, "Look, man, you

know, just tell him to come

get me.

Can you come get me?

I ain't trying to get anything

out of you.

Come get me.

I can't stand being here.

I'm not used to this.

I'm not from where these guys

are from."

These guys are used to being

here four or five times, you

know what I mean?

>> I didn't come for the first

two weeks.

>> Why?

>> 'Cause I wanted to leave him

there and let him learn a

lesson.

I wanted to leave him there,

learn him a lesson.

I wanted him to know that if he

got locked up, it wasn't gonna

be easy.

Nobody ain't just gonna come and

get you out.

And you just don't have it.

Like, you just don't be getting

locked up or getting in trouble,

and then somebody come get you

all the time, then you go right

back out there, "Yeah, yeah,

yeah," and all that.

It's not gonna be like that.

>> His father wouldn't

pick him up.

Which we found appalling.

And so we went through the

system.

Through the social-work system.

But they're not gonna release a

child to someone who isn't their

guardian.

>> You learn a lot being

locked up.

And two weeks doesn't seem like

a lot, but you learn a lot, man.

You learn how to adapt, and you

learn how you fit, how you feel

you should be to be strong.

>> What did you do to adapt?

>> I became like one of them.

>> How? What do you mean?

Be specific.

>> I realized you got to be

strong.

You can't take no crap, like.

And it ain't like being strong

is being nice, like, you know,

"have faith" and all that.

No, it's about being like what

they call -- what we would call

us, like a man.

Like, "Yo, you ain't messing

with me."

Like, "Don't talk to me like

that.

Ain't nobody coming over here.

Ain't nobody taking my snacks.

Nobody taking my food away.

Nobody saying nothing to me.

Don't disrespect me."

And disrespectful could be

anything.

Guy joke around with you, I

mean, he might not mean nothing

by it.

But he jokes around with you,

you got to fight him now.

[ Indistinct chatter ]

>> People remember when you came

back from that two weeks, and

that you had changed.

>> Yeah, I remember their faces.

And they knew that I had been to

jail.

I don't know how, what happened,

but they knew, you know.

Like I said, I knew I was on my

own from there.

I got to do my own thing.

I can't count on nobody coming

to get me out of jail when I get

into things.

I can't count on nobody to buy

my sneakers.

I got to do it myself.

>> So, anyway, there was a fight

the last day of school.

He was suspended.

>> The last day of eighth grade?

>> The very last day.

So, in order to re-enter, you

have to have a parent come and

sign papers and meet with an

administrator and all of that.

But it was the last day of

school, so that never happened.

I think he was there till, I

don't know, maybe the fifth or

sixth -- like, into October.

A couple weeks.

Five or six weeks.

And he got in trouble, I think,

for selling pot or something.

And they discovered that he had

never re-entered, you know,

properly, according to

procedure, and his parent had

never shown up, and blah, blah,

blah.

So they suspended him again, and

he couldn't return until a

parent came.

And a parent never came.

>> Not going back to high

school, did that change your

life?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> How so?

>> I just told you.

It was sometimes I had the good

things going on for me at

school.

I went home, I went back to

reality.

Now that reality turned into all

day.

All day.

My reality, my life now, my home

life, was all day now.

There was nothing else good

coming out.

That's when I turned into a

real Crip.

And I said, "Stay here and do

this."

And that's how it would be

calling me in my head.

Like, "Just stay here and do

this, man, and be the best --

be the best thug you can be.

Be the best gangster you can

be."

>> That's the worst thing that

could have ever happened in this

area, is the gangs.

The Bloods and the Crips.

You know, didn't start here.

That started out on the

West Coast someplace.

Took a while before it came to

the East Coast.

But once it came here, the

destructiveness of it

you could see every day here

now, you know, in this region --

in East Orange, in Irvington, in

Newark, and some of the other

communities around.

>> I believe it's stupid killing

people over a block or over a

street that you don't even own.

I told him, "Don't be running

with them guys, don't do -- you

got to get away from that.

Don't do that.

You stupid.

You dumb.

They're using you.

They gonna get you to do things.

And that's the only reason they

need you.

>> My first memory of Tourrie is

being with, I guess, some

wannabe gang members in a

certain area here in town.

And just a wannabe.

You know, not a real tough guy.

You know, used to pick him up,

take him in the car, as I did

many of the kids, you know.

Drive him around.

Take him to have a sandwich.

Sit down and talk to him about

sports, the importance of

getting an education, that you

can't do anything without an

education today.

But he seemed, like many of the

young people, that he was beaten

already.

That he could only see as far as

he could reach.

>> I think, since there was so

much stuff going on in his home

life, that's why he turned to

gangs, 'cause he felt like that

was his family.

>> You're right.

>> That's exactly why.

>> That's why I said that I

played a big part of it.

And, you know -- and I blame

myself, because I should have

been a mother.

Nothing. Nothing.

He just gave birth.

That's it. And that's gone.

>> No, you gave birth.

He just gave his sperm.

>> Well, yeah.

>> Do you ever think about the

fact that RayRay knows that

people come out of dysfunctional

families and can excel?

He knew this.

He wasn't --

>> He did it because he wanted

to do it.

>> I'm saying he chose to do

that.

>> Exactly. Exactly.

>> It was no reason -- I don't

think it was a reason.

I think he chose to do that.

He might have did it for the

popularity, because it was cool.

>> Oh, he knows wrong from

right.

He was brought up with that.

So that's just the lifestyle he

chose for hisself.

>> Yeah, but it still was, like,

different, too, because if I had

have been a mother and stayed on

him...

>> Now, what you did, you might

be hung up on that because you

wasn't a good parent or

whatever, or you was in your

addiction.

But he had other people there

that was trying to do that for

him.

So he did have that in his life.

He had people from school.

So he had positive influences in

his life.

>> What's wrong here?

>> "Y" and the "W" are --

>> Read Your Way.

>> Read Your Way.

Read Your Way in class.

Okay.

Capitalize.

>> I'm so smart.

>> You went where on your trip?

I hadn't heard anything, and I

assumed he was okay.

And then he, you know, rang my

doorbell in May

and looked so different.

Tattoo on his hand.

You know, you could tell he was

living on the street.

He looked dirty.

He smelled bad.

It was like 10:00 at night.

And he said, "Miss Maher, can

you help me?

I haven't been in school.

I'm living on the street."

I didn't let him in the house

because I have my own kids, and

you don't want to open your

door, figuratively and

literally, to somebody who you

can tell is involved in a gang,

because you don't want anybody

else coming.

You know, you just don't want

your own family involved in

that.

So I did what made sense to me,

and I took him down the street.

And I never thought, "Well, gee,

I shouldn't be trusting him,"

because I could see it in his

eyes that he was coming to me

because he really needed help.

He was not coming here to hurt

me or anything.

And I talked to him for quite a

long time, a couple hours, and

then I called Mr. Gill, my

colleague, and he came, and we

took him to his maternal

grandmother's.

And the next day, I went to the

high school and said, "How could

you have dropped the ball?

This kid hasn't been in school

for six months.

Did no one notice that?"

>> Yes, we knew he wasn't

attending school in ninth grade.

There was a drug-alcohol issue.

By school policy, he had to be

taken for medical screening.

Parents did not take him for

that medical screening.

He could not return to school

until the screening took place.

So, I think we fulfilled our

obligation per letter of the

law.

But could we have done more

on a more human level to try to

reach him and do that?

Probably.

I think that's probably a fair

statement.

>> Everybody's doing well today?

Well, we can try to work on

something.

But, you know what, it's on you.

Tourrie had been involved with

Division of Youth and Family

Services as an open case --

I don't know why -- when he was

younger.

I know, at one point, we

contacted the Division, and were

told that his case was closed,

that he was no longer an active

case.

I don't know who made that

determination or why, but at

that point, we were unable to

get support from them.

>> The school has to actually

not just be a school that sits

on 100 Chestnut Street.

I think that Tourrie probably

needed someone looking for him.

[ Indistinct chatter ]

>> You didn't know

Tourrie Moses.

He was before your time at the

high school.

But is his story in some ways a

familiar story?

>> Well, sure.

I believe, if all the

circumstances aren't aligning

appropriately, that you can get

off track to success when you

come from a challenging

location.

But here's what has to happen.

There has to be someone to

rescue you.

To give you the lifeline.

And we forget quite often that

someone rescued us.

I don't, because there were so

many individuals involved in

making sure I was successful.

>> What happened was, at 15, he

kept running away from me.

And I kept jumping in my car,

and I would chase him down, and

I would catch him, and I would

bring him back home.

And he would act like he'll

stay, then he'd get up and go.

I'd go get him again.

Always used to tell him, "Keep

messing around, you're gonna end

up in prison, just like me."

He would listen.

But then he'd get up, "All

right, Daddy.

I'll see you later."

Then I hear he into something

with them.

I got him a job at the movies,

'cause I knew somebody up there.

I got him a job up at the

restaurant up here on Fullerton,

'cause I've known Mike, the guy

that owns that.

'Cause I used to work for him

doing dish washing when I was

out on parole one time.

So I told my son head that way,

but he never went to that.

He worked at the movies for a

week.

He worked with Mike for like a

month.

>> Even though Tourrie was a

skinny guy, he really wasn't

muscular, he faced the world

like he was.

And that's what I liked about

him.

>> You turned to gang life

yourself.

You became a Crip.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> You did some bad stuff.

>> I did some things while I was

in a gang.

I'm not gonna go too much in

detail, but it's the same thing

that you see.

Toting guns, selling drugs,

being in stolen cars.

You know...

[ Sighs ]

I used to have guns under my

mattress at my house, you know?

>> How did you like all that?

>> It was a rush.

It was a rush.

But Tourrie tried to keep me out

of a lot of trouble.

I used to try to do everything.

"You don't have to do that.

I'll take care of that."

>> Why?

>> 'Cause he was the big

brother.

And he seen me as an athlete,

somebody might possibly make it

to the NFL or start of

something.

And at that time, I was still

getting my feet wet with being

in the gang.

And he was swimming in the deep

end.

>> See, in gang life, they look

on you to do things.

They look on you to take

initiative to do absolutely

wrong things.

To show everybody out there, the

rival gang members, that I would

do anything just for the name of

the gang.

>> You grew up to be a menace.

>> His gang boss ordered him

to go take out a witness in

reference to a crime down in

Irvington.

The witness had an idea that he

was coming to her house.

He knocks on the door.

The husband gets pissed off,

says, "Yeah, let me go open the

door," like that.

He opens the door, and Tourrie

shoots him and kills him.

>> I understand that he was high

out of his mind and, as a

wannabe would do, was scared and

shaky.

>> I said, "Baby, if you did it,

you tell the truth."

And one day he called me from

jail, he said, "Nana, I'm gonna

tell the truth."

>> Everybody else who did it

with him, why aren't they with

him?

>> He took the whole weight for

everything.

>> If the cops know and all

that, they said that other

people supposed to go, also.

That's what they call

conspiracy.

>> They told on RayRay, too, and

that's probably why they didn't

pick up charges on them.

'Cause they told.

But doesn't matter.

He did the crime.

He should do the time.

Point-blank. Period.

>> He didn't do it by hisself,

though.

>> Yes, he did.

It don't take two people to pull

a trigger.

>> Exactly. Exactly.

>> Take one person.

If I walk with you right now,

and we walking together, and I

pull out a gun and I shoot and

kill somebody, should you go to

jail?

>> Yes.

>> Why?

>> 'Cause I was with you.

>> Sometimes i don't know how I

could keep moving on, how I

could even keep living my life

knowing that someone's not here

because of me.

That person's family, you know,

they -- [ Scoffs ]

You know, they'll never see

their family member again.

Their brother, you know, their

father -- they'll never see him

again, you know?

Their son.

They'll never see him again.

>> Who was that person?

What was that person's name?

>> Uh...

I don't...

I think it was, uh...

I think the last name was

Wilkinson.

That's all I really remember.

I don't have the paperwork

on it.

>> You don't remember his name?

>> Uh, no.

>> The person you killed.

When you did that --

>> I know that a part of his

name is Wilkinson.

Wilkerson or Wilkinson.

>> Well, how come you never knew

the rest of his name?

>> I didn't spend too much time

in court.

You got to understand, at the

point in time where this is

really happening, which wasn't

that long ago, no one else's

life really mattered to me

because I only loved the gang.

That's all I really loved and

cared about.

I didn't have anything.

That's all I had.

That's the only thing that

loved me.

>> Why do you keep that picture?

>> I loved him from the start.

He always smiled like that when

I showed up.

Far as guys go, he's all I got.

I don't love no other guys.

I don't like no other guys

but him.

>> I want to show you this, and

ask you what you think when you

look at this.

>> I don't even like looking

at it.

I mean, it don't really seem

like my son right there.

I don't like looking at that.

That's just stupid.

I don't even like looking at

that thing, man.

>> He was such a unique young

man that, if you said to me, "Do

you still love this kid?"

I would have to say, "I do."

But...

Somebody murders someone, right,

that's kind of crossing the line

for me.

I mean, I can make any

sixth-grader dinner and help him

with his homework and love him

to death, but, you know, once

you become a man...

He shot another kid, who was a

kid that I know, who was on one

of my son's soccer teams.

And then he was picked up for

murder of this other guy.

There's not much more I can do.

Really.

What can I do for somebody who

has gotten to that point, be it

his fault or not?

[ Indistinct chatter ]

>> As teachers, you come into

profession believing that you

can make a difference in someone

like Tourrie.

I mean, there are a lot of kids

that come through House Gill

that are tremendous kids, that

are going to succeed from the

second you meet them, and you're

part of the process, and you

help them, and that's a great

thing.

But there are those kids that

come through where you know

that without some kind of

support in place, whether it's a

teacher or a coach or something,

that they won't become the

person that they're gonna

become.

>> After my cousin Tourrie got

arrested, it was over.

The fun time was over.

I was next at bat.

I was next in command as far as

my position of the gang's branch

in Montclair.

I really didn't want it.

I took it, but it was too heavy.

I can see things clearly now.

And then, to be able to help

people and keep kids away from

gangs -- even though it looks

cool, it's not.

>> Ottis, when you see this,

does that look like the cousin

you knew at the very end of his

time out on the street?

>> That's exactly how he looked.

I can actually see what he's

trying to tell me through this

picture.

"Keep doing what you're doing."

Finish strong.

Finish my life strong.

Don't finish like him.

>> How you doing, man?

>> Here.

>> It's nice to see you.

>> I wish that's the way it

felt.

>> Yeah, I know.

It's funny to see you.

It's just weird.

>> Yeah, I know.

Of course.

>> [ Chuckles ]

>> 'Cause people think I live in

school.

>> Hey, I'm thinking right now,

"Shouldn't you be in school?"

>> I should be in school.

I took my bonus day to see you.

>> [ Laughter ] Oh, my bad.

I'm sorry.

>> Don't be sorry.

That's my choice.

I make choices in my life.

Remember this?

>> Wow.

Do I remember that?

That was sixth grade.

>> Yeah.

>> I wish I could go back right

now.

>> Yeah.

>> Wish I could jump in the

picture.

>> Yeah, I know.

Me, too.

>> Yeah.

>> 'Cause I'd be a lot younger,

too.

[ Both laugh ]

>> Yeah, Mr. Gill.

>> What do you remember about

sixth grade?

>> I remember...

I don't know.

School was different for me.

I remember liking it, because I

remember liking the teachers.

Like, I remember, like, you, and

Miss Maher.

And you always -- you got a lot

of jokes with you, so you were

always funnier than Miss Blank.

>> Miss Blank got you involved

in running for student council.

What do you remember about that?

>> I didn't think I was gonna

win.

I make the joke, sometimes, that

I was the first Black president

sometimes.

>> Yeah, that's right.

You were.

[ Both laugh ]

And it was, like, the questions.

You were always asking

questions, right?

Hand was always up.

>> Yeah, I do that to this day.

>> Well, that's good.

It's a way to learn, right?

>> Yeah.

Yeah, it's the only way to

learn, I think.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> You used to tell me that.

>> Absolutely. All the time.

I said, "You're a scholar.

Scholars ask questions."

Right?

"Students just know answers."

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> And you were always a leader.

Did you sense that, that people

would listen to you?

>> I sensed it not then, but

when I got older.

When I got to a different

lifestyle, since I was a leader

in that sense, but...

I used to think that fear was

respect, so if a person feared

me, I automatically thought,

"Yeah, this person respects me."

>> Yeah.

>> But now I know there's a

difference between fear and

respect.

>> And what's the difference?

>> Respect is...

Respect is like --

Respect is something I feel like

is mutual.

Like, you respect me, I respect

you.

And, like, I mean, you can be

humble towards one another, you

can be nice to one another, you

can talk to one another.

Fear is like, "Man, I don't know

what this guy's gonna do next,

so I'm gonna, you know, be cool

with him, be nice to him."

I mean, I don't care about you

'cause you fear me, you know?

>> And then whatever happens,

happens, huh?

>> Man, I knew it was

frustrating for y'all.

That's one thing -- 'cause I

said I always think, and I used

to think about y'all.

Like, "Man, I know they probably

frustrated.

I know they probably just

wondering, like, 'What is wrong

with this kid now?'

Like, 'He used to be good.'"

But I don't know.

I was confused.

>> I don't think we were worried

about what was wrong with you.

We were worried about what we

could do for you.

>> Yeah.

>> And we also knew that, to a

certain extent, nothing was

gonna happen unless you made

another choice.

>> I look at it sometimes like,

man, right now, instead of

sitting here talking to you, I

probably should be talking on

the phone.

I should be in college

somewhere, in my dorm room.

>> That's right.

You should be going to your

graduation.

>> Yeah.

>> That's where you should be

going.

Which gets us to the present in

terms of your education.

Want to do school?

>> You know, I tried before, but

I didn't have the money.

That's why they put me in

welding, 'cause I didn't have --

>> Yeah, well, I never knew you

to be defeated by one thing.

>> No.

But I'm in prison.

Prison is hard. It's hard.

>> I'm sure it is.

I would not deny that.

But life is even equally

difficult if you, you know...

>> Yeah.

>> You have a brain.

What about pursuing your own

education in terms of reading?

Are you doing that?

>> I wish that y'all could come

to my cell.

>> Yeah?

>> I got on my shelf -- I got

like five science books.

And I probably shouldn't be

saying it, but I stole them from

the school.

>> [ Laughs ]

>> I probably shouldn't be

saying this, but I stole a bunch

of books from the school.

I got math books.

But they're like the textbooks

that y'all have.

But, you know, sometimes I just

open them up and I read them.

>> Right.

>> Like, 'cause I remember

Miss Maher telling me, "If you

don't" -- what'd she say?

"If you don't use it, you lose

it," you know what I mean?

>> That's right.

>> So I always try to use it so

I don't forget it.

>> So, I got a kid just like you

right now.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Any advice for me?

>> Advice I have for you is

that, no matter what situation,

no matter what circumstance, no

matter what the kid goes

through, no matter what he

say -- he might curse you out

one day, might get mad at you,

might feel like, "Oh, you're

just some -- I don't want to

hear nothing from you."

Always pursue, and just, like...

Let him know that you love

him, you know?

>> Right.

>> That you love him.

>> You know, why not?

Mr. Block, who's the brainchild

behind this whole project, talks

to me all the time about, "How

do you feel about Tourrie?"

And I think I feel the same

about you that I've always felt,

except I got to kind of block it

out at times 'cause it hurts too

much.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, that --

You know, you understand that?

You know, like...

'Cause if I think about you

here...

>> Mm-hmm.

>> ...that kind of, like, in a

sense, makes me unable to be

able to pursue what I need

to do.

>> Like what?

>> Well, the problem is that --

I have 120 kids right now, all

right?

So, if I'm thinking about you,

am I thinking about 120 kids?

>> Nah.

>> I mean, you're in that

compartment.

There's a compartment there.

But he kind of, like, says, you

know, "It's informative."

The fact that you're here, I

can't get you out of here.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But I can learn from that

about those other kids that are

sitting in my classroom.

And not think of it as a

negative but think of it, you

know, hopefully as a positive in

that sense.

But, I mean, that's a very good

message that you have.

I think every teacher should

hear that message about not

giving up.

You know.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Would it have made any

difference if Mr. Gill had been

Black instead of white?

>> No, it wouldn't have been

different.

If I feel someone cares about me

then, you know, I'm cool with

that person.

I care about them 'cause they

care about me, you know

what I mean?

Especially when you're a child

feeling unloved.

If you feel unloved, there's not

much you can do about it.

It isn't about the skin colors.

Like, "Man, I wish a Black guy

would love me," you know

what I mean?

I don't even think about so

much, you know, disappointing my

family.

I think about disappointing

y'all, because I know y'all had

more expectations for me than my

family did, even more than my

family did, so...

That's the hardest part,

thinking about y'all, because I

know y'all were like,

"Man, he..."

>> Well, let me straighten that

out for you since I'm here.

You're gonna disappoint me if

you don't pursue an education

while you're here.

That will disappoint me.

Okay?

So let's put all the other

stuff, you know, aside on the

table.

>> All right.

>> You know?

That's what we need to do.

That's what you need to do.

I really believe that you have

something to give back to this

society.

I really do.

And that's what you told me.

Don't give up on anybody, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So I'm gonna take your

advice.

>> A'ight. [ Chuckles ]

>> You know?

>> Yeah.

>> So, when I walk away, it's

gonna be easy for you to forget

that.

So you need to write it down,

and you need to put it up

someplace and remind yourself.

'Cause, you know, on the days

when you get defeated...

>> I really thank you for being

here, for coming, man.

I mean, 'cause I don't have a

lot of people around.

I really appreciate it, man.

>> Remember, I told you,

we move on.

Okay?

>> Okay.

>> Let's do it.

>> Okay. Thank you.

>> You're welcome.

All right.

>> Thank you, Mr. Gill.

>> All right.

I'll be in touch.

>> Okay.

If you can, tell Miss Maher I

said that I love her, and I

thank -- and thank you.

>> Yeah, all right. I will.

>> Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Good seeing you.

>> All right.

We'll be seeing you.

[ Door opens, closes ]

♪♪♪

♪♪♪

>> Funding for this program has

been provided by the

JPB Foundation and the

Ford Foundation as part of

Chasing the Dream: Poverty and

Opportunity in America...

And...

...and others.

A full list of underwriters is

available from WNET and WLIW.