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He’s the billionaire businessman who says America is now ready for a change. This week on Firing Line
SCHULTZ: Raise your hand if you think the government is doing well for you.
CNN ANCHOR: Not a Single hand
From his humble roots in Brooklyn, New York Howard Schultz rose to the top by building one of the most famous brands in the world
NATS of coffee being brewed
Using Starbucks to promote social change- healthcare for part time employees…and free college tuition
SCHULTZ AT ASU: And to our 330 Starbucks College Achievement plan graduates, so proud of you. Now, the lifelong democrat is considering a bid to become the nation’s chief executive – as an independent
NORAH O’DONNELL: Can you beat the system, can you?
SCHULTZ: well I think I can beat the system if I decide to run.
Leaving some Democrats worried, he’ll hand the presidency to Donald Trump in 2020
JAY INSLEE: All it can do is embolden Donald Trump.
MICHAEL MOORE: None of us should go to Starbucks until he says he’s not running.
What does Howard Schultz say now?
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HOOVER: Howard Schultz welcome to firing line.
SCHULTZ: Thank you for having me on.
HOOVER: For more than two decades you were the chairman, the CEO of Starbucks a company that you built in your words from the ground up and you have beginning in January stirred the pot.
SCHULTZ: You think so?
HOOVER: By announcing that you are exploring the candidacy for the president of the United States as an independent centrist candidate outside the two party system.
SCHULTZ: correct
HOOVER: It’s been nine weeks approximately since you made that announcement. How do you measure your success thus far.
SCHULTZ: Nine weeks does not make a long opportunity to assess what’s really taking place. But I will tell you this I’ve traveled the country I’ve been in a different city almost every day over this period. And mostly I’ve heard from people who are dissatisfied exhausted and at times disgusted by our broken political system and the government’s inability to solve the problems and the challenges the American people are facing. Now clearly I was met with a barrage of an assault almost and I most probably from the Democratic Party I don’t know exactly. Which is interesting unto itself when I built a company that not only succeeded commercially but gave health care ownership and free college tuition to every employee and at the same time established a global enterprise carrying American values. So, but the short answer your question is it’s gone very well from my perspective and inspired me to continue to proceed.
HOOVER: Who’s buying the message?
SCHULTZ: The vast majority of Americans who feel as if the Democrats are so far tilted left and the Republicans are so far tilted right and certainly don’t trust the government.
HOOVER: So if it’s going so well. Do you anticipate that you’re going to run.
SCHULTZ: By the end of spring early summer my wife Sherry and I and our kids will make a final decision.
HOOVER: What’s going to convince you to do it.
SCHULTZ: We’ve been studying with great discipline. The pathway to 270. I think at this point given how far left the Democratic Party has gone.
HOOVER: 270 electoral votes which means as an independent centrist you believe that there’s a pathway through the Electoral College.
SCHULTZ: Yes exactly.
HOOVER: To win the presidency
SCHULTZ: we’ve done the work to basically put us on the ballot of every state I can tell you that unequivocally. So at this point you know I’m cautiously optimistic
HOOVER: if you ran as a Democrat do you think that you could navigate the Democratic primaries and caucuses. Successfully.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate the question but I I don’t recognize what the Democratic Party stands for anymore. I don’t believe that free college. A job for everybody and Medicare for All which would take a hundred eighty million people off of their employer insurance is the right way I I
It’s not only that the Democratic Party has gone far too left it’s the fact that both parties are not representative the American people and the system is broken. It’s corrosive. It’s corrupt. The system is not working
HOOVER: Why doesn’t the system work. Why is it broken.
SCHULTZ: It’s broken because both parties are beholden to special interests self-preservation They would rather have political issues as a wedge as opposed to solving the problems. Let’s just list a few things. We’re twenty two trillion dollars in debt. That is an immoral issue if both parties are complicit with. We have an immigration problem that goes back 20 years. President Obama and President Bush both submitted immigration policies that should have been embraced but it wasn’t. We have a health care crisis. We have an education crisis, our standing in the world. All of these things are old problems that haven’t been solved for decades because both parties are not in business every single day waking up, caring for, and solving American’s problem. And it’s such a lack of leadership and truthfulness in the system.
HOOVER: what about this moment to you says this is the moment for an independent centrist candidate. I mean certainly
SCHULTZ: this is a moment of disruption of transformation and opportunity because the American people are fed up.
HOOVER: What’s your evidence that the American people are fed up.
SCHULTZ: Well with 100 million people not voting in 2016 and a choice coming to the American people that could very well be a socialist leaning Democrat in the form of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Beto O’Rourke. You name them. And President Trump. Is there any evidence that anything is going to improve regardless of the outcome. The answer is No.
HOOVER: So why do you think the center hasn’t held yet in American politics
SCHULTZ: because there hasn’t been a legitimate choice and no one’s represented the Center for quite some time. I mean this shows
HOOVER: When was the last time there was a somebody who really occupied the center
SCHULTZ: Well I think you’ve got to go way back. It’s not so much occupied the center as it I as a person occupying American values. So President Johnson and the Great Society demonstrated a level of empathy and compassion that was led by a white president. It was a centrist position. President Reagan established both immigration and the fact that every American deserves an opportunity to go to emergency room regardless of your opportunity to pay his cooperation with Tip O’Neill demonstrated a centrist opportunity in which both parties were doing things on behalf of the American people
HOOVER: Right. Right, Although Reagan didn’t come at it from a centrist position he came from a conservative position and then through leadership of working through a compromise a principled compromise.
SCHULTZ: Yeah you just mentioned the word leadership. Servant Leadership caring for the American people. When’s the last time that we’ve we’ve seen that
HOOVER: are you interested in building a centrist architecture and infrastructure That is – goes beyond the presidency. And how do you how do you persuade people that you’re the one to do that.
SCHULTZ: first of all I’m not a messiah. I’m one person who loves the country and is deeply profoundly concerned about the direction we’re going. I do believe that that there are millions of Americans who agree with me from all walks of life there are good people on both sides of the aisle. Who can’t vote their conscience in their heart because of the ideology of both parties and the pressure if they do not follow the rules of the party they will be primaried out. If an independent person could get to the White House these people would come out of that ideology. I also think you will see a plethora of independent candidates run for office at all aspects of government
HOOVER: So you believe it has to go top down. You have to win the presidency and then that can be the watershed moment that empowers an independent architecture.
SCHULTZ: I think the catalyst is the Oval Office and the reason for that is the president establishes the character the tonality the morality of the country. And look at it look at our situation today.
HOOVER: So there is an argument that Howard Schultz should run for independent senator from Washington and start building the center at the federal level —
SCHULTZ: I dont think we have the time when we have twenty two trillion dollars of debt. We have the planet that is that is burning up. We have a health care crisis in the country that is a runaway problem we have K through 12 education and we’re almost 30th in the world. We have a situation with China and North Korea that is bubbling up. I can go on.
HOOVER: you say you’re not a messiah but why is it you.
SCHULTZ: Well. Why is it me. It’s not about destiny. It’s about. The courage my conviction to try and be the leader that I have been in a company I’ve spent the last 18 months thinking this very carefully. I put myself in a position to do this. I funded it myself thus far.
HOOVER: will you fund raise or you self fund and one of the arguments Donald Trump made is I don’t need money from anybody else I won’t be beholden to anybody else I want to pay for it myself.
SCHULTZ: Yeah he did say those things but then he’s beholden to every cent every Republican self-interest known to mankind so —
HOOVER: recently you were in Nashville. I’d like to play a clip and have you respond to it .
SCHULTZ: I have a feeling I know what this clip is going to be
HOOVER: I’m sure you do.
CLIP:
- OK. Hey. Guy.
HOOVER :They were chanting from billionaires for president
SCHULTZ: right.
HOOVER: And you are self-made
SCHULTZ: I’m self-made
HOOVER: You didn’t inherit your wealth.
SCHULTZ: I didn’t inherit any money. Just a belief in the country from my mother
HOOVER: Your father didn’t give you three hundred million dollars.
SCHULTZ: No but I’m I’m somewhat sympathetic to what those people were saying. And let me try and explain that. There is. A crisis of capitalism in the country. And I say that as a proud capitalist. What’s the crisis. The crisis is with twenty two trillion dollars of debt. The government cannot solve all the problems of the American people. So when President Trump came out with a 21 percent tax rate for corporations I was one of the first ones out of the gate to say this is a mistake.
HOOVER: Why? does it make us less competitive.
SCHULTZ: No. It makes us more competitive. But I think there was a better way to do it and the better way to do it would have been to to provide a tax rate of 25 or 26 percent with an incentive built in to provide health insurance to provide training to provide college tuition. Give an incentive because businesses and business leaders need to do more for our people in the communities we serve. And since President Trump in a sense has provided such a degree of immorality and a lack of character lack of civility lack of dignity in the White House He has established for many people what it means to be wealthy in this country that is not me. I mean I could not be more different than Donald Trump in every aspect especially as a business person. I’ve been a public CEO for almost 30 years where I have fiduciary responsibility. And I did two things our stock prices up twenty five thousand percent while giving free college tuition healthcare and ownership to every employee and building a global enterprise in 77 countries Donald Trump had no constituency whatsoever than himself and his family. And he’s got a degree of conflict of interest that has that is greater than any president in the history of our country so the comparison is is a is a false narrative.
HOOVER: Speaking of Donald Trump the attorney general has recently summarized Robert Mueller’s report in a four page letter that he sent to Congress and hopefully that full report will be released. But do you accept the attorney general’s conclusions that there was no collusion with the Russians.
SCHULTZ: Well I have not read the report. I think the American people have a right to read every word and every sentence in that report and when that when that occurs we will know.
HOOVER: Do you accept that conclusion. Attorney General I mean do you think the attorney general would misrepresent the conclusions in the Mueller Report.
SCHULTZ: I have to believe that the attorney general is telling the truth. But having said that we should recognize that Russia is an enemy of America and has worked very hard and has done a very good job of disrupting our democracy and our election process. And this president has turned a blind eye to that which is very very dangerous for us as a democracy.
HOOVER: Another foreign policy question deals with China. Because you’ve spent a lot of time in China. You this extraordinary statistic that a Starbucks opens every day in China.
SCHULTZ: Yes that’s true.
HOOVER: One of the things our intelligence agencies also agree on. Is that China is a rising authoritarian threat to long term and even short term interests of the United States. How do you see China and the United States geopolitical relationship with China and our security.
SCHULTZ: I think this is really an important question First off Starbucks has been in China for 20 years and I have traveled to China perhaps more than any other public CEO in the last decade. I don’t think China unlike Russia is an enemy of America but I think China is a fierce competitor and China has an eye on becoming and displacing us as the number one economic power in the world. Which is —
HOOVER: What about militarily
SCHULTZ: which which is a danger to us in terms of our standing in the world. Our foreign policy and our safety and security. And so I think we have to deal with China very with a great effectiveness. Diplomacy statesmanship I do not believe the current policy of this trade and tariff war is the right approach to China but I do believe we need to be very tough with China on human rights on currency manipulation on trade obviously.
HOOVER: Tough with China, does that mean preventing China from superseding us in terms of research and development intellectual property and all of the things that would give it the security and economic advantage over the United States.
SCHULTZ: A 100 percent 100 percent and we should be unleashing every aspect of innovation technology and resources we have to make that happen. your viewers should understand that China holds over a trillion dollars of our debt.
HOOVER: Would you call yourself a deficit hawk.
SCHULTZ: I would. And I’ve been talking about this for a decade. I’ve been talking about this when I was at 10 trillion dollars. The other issue is that the Republicans were banging on President Obama for eight years. Boehner McConnell and Ryan about the debt and deficit. Now we have a Republican President where are the Republicans. Where are your conservatives. Where are they?
HOOVER: Where. Explain why this matters to an average citizen. Because as you know the conservative movement built an entire pillar around fiscal responsibility and championed it for a good 60 years.
SCHULTZ: Yes
HOOVER: and then as far as I can tell. Has completely abdicated this series of principles
SCHULTZ: not only abdicated it but is adding a trillion dollars a year in 500 billion dollars of interest it’s economically a disaster for the United States because we will not have the resources to invest in the things that we need especially in competing with China. But it’s immoral. Why is it immoral
HOOVER: why is it immoral. Because we need a candidate who can make the case that there there is a moral imperative to the debt and deficits so it’s a new generation has forgotten. There’s no constituency for fiscal responsibility.
SCHULTZ: Well it’s immoral because- you have children?
HOOVER: Yes.
SCHULTZ: OK. So I have two grandkids and one on the way. It’s immoral because the United States of America will not be able to invest in their future and they’re going to be saddled with this level of national debt. And by the time President Trump hopefully gets out of office in 2020 the debt will be closer to twenty five trillion dollars larger than the US economy. We have never been in this situation before. And so at some point this thing is going to blow. The two parties have been complicit in equally recklessly adding to the deficit and the debt. Both parties. But this has been a Republican issue for decades. And I just asked rhetorically Where are they?
HOOVER: I agree with you. I don’t know where they are but here’s my question back to you. How are you going to be able to do it if they built an entire party and movement around it and couldn’t. How are you going to be able to do it instead?
SCHULTZ: If I run for president and am fortunate enough to get elected unlike a Democrat or Republican who goes into the Oval Office I don’t walk in there within with a fixed enemy. In fact I walk in there saying listen there are good people on both sides of the aisle. There are good ideas from both sides. I’m willing to work with both but my agenda is going to be to rebuild trust and confidence with the American people to specifically go after the debt and the deficit to restore our standing in the world and most importantly restore confidence in the promise of the American dream
HOOVER: The liberal or progressive side of the Democratic Party believes the way to restore confidence is by buying things for people by paying for free college. Having universal health care guaranteeing a job
SCHULTZ: yeah.
HOOVER: When you were the CEO of Starbucks you partnered with Arizona State University to offer free college tuition for some of your employees.
SCHULTZ: All actually now
HOOVER: all of your– Now it’s all of your employees. Can you explain how is that fundamentally different than free college for all.
SCHULTZ: first of all. There’s nothing free. We should establish that so someone is going to pay and who’s going to pay for all this free stuff. Not only the wealthy but everyone’s taxes are going to go up my company demonstrated that we could be financially successful reward shareholders and achieve the fragile balance between humanity and financial performance. I think every business in America can do that and is and has a responsibility in one way or another to do that and that should be a transformation of what capitalism should be in the future. All these other Democrats that are running for president who are espousing all these things that are not feasible that are fantasy. I have done it
HOOVER: So is is the key one of the keys to a platform for centrist independent candidacy calling on the civic sector and the private sector to step up
SCHULTZ: Yes
HOOVER: and carry the weight of what the far left says should be the responsibility of government.
SCHULTZ: Well I think the transformation of the country has to be an understanding that government can’t solve all our problems unlike what the Democrats are saying. That there has to be a partnership between business philanthropists nonprofits and the government when I hear Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren and this young very talented congresswoman who I think these are all well-intentioned people who love the country. But their policies are just not they’re not real. free college free job. Medicare for all. It’s not going to happen
HOOVER: somebody who has a very similar pedigree to you in the sense that they’re self-made and they’re a billionaire is Mike Bloomberg. There’s a report that Mike Bloomberg is reconsidering his decision not to run for President and may run as a moderate Democrat, not as an independent centrist. Where is his thinking wrong about the viability of a moderate democrat?
SCHULTZ: Well I can’t speak for Mayor Bloomberg who I have tremendous respect for. I wasn’t surprised when a month or two ago he decided that he was not going to run because when he looks at the math there’s no room for him as a centrist Democrat in a party and a platform-
HOOVER: This is the calculation you came to.
SCHULTZ: Yeah but well. My calculation was also based on the two party system. I’m sure that this recent talk is linked to whether Vice President Biden is going to run or not.
HOOVER: Do you think the accusations about Joe Biden are unfair.
SCHULTZ: I don’t know if they’re unfair or not. I’m I think for these women who are coming out and talking about this there’s no reason to believe they’re not telling the truth. I know Vice President Biden. I respect him. He’s a good man. I don’t. I don’t know whether he was going to run for president or not. I suspect that Mayor Bloomberg’s decision to rethink this is directly linked to that.
HOOVER: If it’s true what these women say about Biden Do you believe it’s disqualifying or should be disqualifying for Vice President Biden.
SCHULTZ: I think he’d have to answer that question for himself and the American people have to answer that. But certainly I think it’s a it’s a very big problem.
HOOVER: There’s a different standard for Democrats and Republicans it seems.
SCHULTZ: We’ll see
HOOVER: President Trump has sustained
SCHULTZ: Well it seems like its a different standard for President Trump.
HOOVER: Why.
SCHULTZ: I don’t. I don’t know the answer to that. But let’s see if it’s a different standard in 2020. That’ll be the test.
HOOVER: this program aired for 33 years by a single host William F. Buckley Junior and he covered almost every topic. So he covered the idea of an independent centrist candidate in a program here with a guest you’ll recognize in a discussion about Ross Perot.
Let’s play the clip.
LIMBAUGH: Look at who wins presidential elections who always has. If it’s a clearly defined case of liberalism versus conservatism
BUCKLEY: The liberalism defined as a fanatical extreme or on the multicultural issue liberal.
LIMBAUGH: Yes yes liberalism designed and defined any way you choose to define it as it really is today but the power the individual. If you listen to the populism of Ronald Reagan even Ross Perot I mean one of the reasons that Perot I think was able to latch onto people’s hearts so fast is because Perot actually said You’re what makes this country work not a plan not a program it’s you. The ordinary people of this country working hard devoting yourselves to virtue.
HOOVER: How do you win. In a way that Ross Perot couldn’t.
SCHULTZ: Very different time. We have to recognize that the country is much more divided than it was in 1992. The American people do not trust Congress and do not trust this president. I also believe that the ideology of both parties as we talked about earlier is not representative of the vast majority of Americans who are looking for an answer
HOOVER: the cry from the Democrats at least moderate Democrats is that you will give the election to Donald Trump.
SCHULTZ: Well they want to you believe that
HOOVER: Does your candidacy only work if the left nominates a progressive.
SCHULTZ: I think the math for me certainly works better if there is a far left nominee. however it is a false narrative completely and with regard to me siphoning votes away from Democrats and reelecting Donald Trump. And the reason is. There are lifelong Republicans who have been Republicans forever who perhaps have never voted for a Democrat who are not going to pull a lever for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. But They do not want to pull that lever for someone whose character morality lack of civility. Is so inconsistent with the Republican Party So if I’m in the race there is a great chance that I will pull more votes away from from the Republicans than the Democrats. the character issue of Donald Trump is going to come home to roost in 2020 with millions of Americans. if they have if they have a different choice
HOOVER: that is what you believe. Where is the evidence that that’s the case
SCHULTZ: Well the evidence is that. Donald Trump is not a trusted President. The evidence is that Donald Trump has has made all of these promises. What’s happened in West Virginia what’s happened to the manufacturing jobs. What’s happened to the millions of Americans who he promised a better life he’s going to have to run on his record for the first time and we’re going to make that record very very visible to the American people. And he’s not going to be able to deny it.
HOOVER: There are so many people who want to believe what you’re saying. But where do you see the evidence that it will be enough to carry you over the finish line.
SCHULTZ: The evidence is I believe in the goodness and kindness of the American people. And if given a choice between a far leaning left socialist type person running for the Democratic Party and reelecting an immoral person whose character. And lack of civility is inconsistent with how they raise their children. And we can provide a opportunity for someone to see that that I’ve run a global organization and balanced profit with conscience and humanity and am willing to solve serious problems today and bring the two parties together. We have 18 months to prove that case.
HOOVER: Howard Schultz thank you for coming. to firing line.
SCHULTZ: Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.
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